Hello!
I've got a GS500 with a 1999 engine. with front spocket 16t and read sprocket 39t. Wich is normal. My rear tire is 130/70-17 michelin tire.
nothing out of the ordinary. However, i recently tuned my trailtech vapor speedo with a GPS. Everything is pointing to it being tuned correctly. (you've got those signs by the road, wich will display your speed to make you aware of the speed you're driving.) and its always dead on correct with my display.
Now, when i go WOT on the freeway, i only get up to 130 Km/h. This while i oftenly read that the Gs500 should be able to reach about 160km/h :(
Even if im a bit off with my tuning (wich i think is unlikely), this is a huge gap! When i drive 130km/h the revs are very high. (can't check what rev's im on, cause its hard to dead on install the tach of a vapor on the Gs500.)
I don't really need to go much faster then 130, but even then, the rev's feel unsafely high.
Ideas anyone?
Oh, This is my setup:
These filters:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/352x625q90/539/fFRdQx.jpg)
I offcourse had to rejet my carburettor, adjust my fuel/airscrews and rebalance my carbs.
im now running:
- main 148
- Pilot 40 (3,5 turns out i believe)
The pilot screws i did one carb at a time. Disconnecting the other sparkplug, then i balanced by connecting and disconnecting the plugs after the carbs performed their best on their own.
I also have this exhaust. Takkoni Slip on (no db killer)
(http://www.motorradteile-zubehoer.de/WebRoot/Store4/Shops/61126768/4E67/5AE8/9508/10E2/35CA/C0A8/28BC/7C1A/takkoni_beispiel_05.jpg)
What are "high" revs? Can you provide a number for us?
You should be able to do 130Km/h reliably and easily. 160km/h is a bit tough to get to but def not impossible.
Its hard for me to establish the rev's im running at. this particular dash has issue's with interpreting the tachometer :( I should read up on that. Right now the lead is twisted around a bougie cable, and it does produce output, but its jumpy, and im not sure im using the right setting now :p
I'll look into getting that fixed, and provide the number im be running at, at top speed.
What i can say though is that i feel the engine vibrations fairly heavily. Im just sitting there, wishing that i could shift up another gear, but im allready in top gear.
Well, these bikes are pretty heavy on the vibration. That's normal behavior as far as I am aware.
As far as unsafe Rev levels. It's tough to call that by ear. You'd be able to better establish that if you could get your tach working.
That's my suggestion.
98km/h is 5k rpms. Or should be. So that's a start.
True dat.
I did some modding just with an electrician, who helped me get a 560 K resistor in the circuit, but it still jumps occasionally. So that still needs some work.
On the other matter, how did you get the 5K = 98km/h number?
Please correct me if im wrong!
This applies to the top gear:
9500 RPM is where the top HP lies of a Gs500. So I assume that 9500 rpm should be what maxes out when going at 160Km/h
So: 9500 RPM = 160KM/h
therefore: 5000RPM = 84 KM/h
___________________________________
IF: 5000 RPM = 98KM/h
then: 9500 RPM = 186KM/h
and: 8260 RPM = 160KM/h
Stating that the bike tops out before it reaches its maximum HP, which seems rather strange to me.
Can someone explain if im doing something wrong here?
The GS500 with stock gearing and tire sizes would have to go over 100 mph before hitting redline in 4th gear so I doubt your even close to over revving. A stock GS should easily hit 100 mph if nothing is wrong. I had my stock 97 up to 110 mph indicated which should be at least an honest 100 mph considering the GSs speedo error with 240# me and a big Plexi 2 shield on it . I thought it was smooth all the way. :icon_lol:
Data from all published roat tests I've found:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500tests_zpsd738ea8a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500gearing-rpms_zps86c965d4.jpg
I don't use km/h in my every day life, so my conversion could be off a bit.
All I know is that 60mph is roughly 98km/h and 60mph sits at 5k rpms for me at 6th gear. It's just a base for comparison. I don't think it has to be extremely precise, at any rate.
Also, I agree with Gsjack. 160km/h isn't top speed. About 180km/h indicated is... if you're going down hill with the wind blowing at your back. :p
fairly helpfull scheme's. Gs500 1999 has 6 gears right? :S im actually not sure now :p
Anyway, that i reach about (according to google) 80mph in my presumed: 6th gear with stock gearing, and a normal tiresize. that can't be even remotely right :p
I deduce from your second picture that at stock gearing if you were to have 11K RPM you should go 140mph in 6th.
So the target 100mph (which should be achievable.) should be reached in 6th at (about) 7800 RPM. Which sits just above the max torque, which seems fine.
IF i were to have all my gears, and everything works as it should, then i should be doing 130KM/h or 80mph at 6240 RPM :S
Or my tuning is WAAAAY off and i feel things that aren't there (unproven though), or my gearing is wrong (sprockets are confirmed 16t front and 39 back)
Ill be back, im going to check if i even have 6 gears :S
Both my stock GSs turned about 4800 rpm at 60 mph in 6th with stock size tires, the Cycle mag gearing link above shows 4730 rpm, close enough. So:
60 x 5000/4800 = 62.5 mph x 1.6 = 100 km/hr @ 5k rpm, again close enough I think. Don't split hairs it's all approximate.
All GS500/E/F have 6 gears.
Offcourse, its all a bit of approximation. Maths don't always scale to the reality.
I just did a testrun, and im glad to say that i indeed have 6 gears.
I did a flatout on the highway though, and my GPS is telling me that (with wind from the front) im going almost exactly 130KM/h >:(
At high rev's / speeds my tach isn't to much of a help either, but it seems stable enough at 100kmh / 60mph
It tells me im doing about 6-7K rpm at 60mph. I would take it with a grain of salt though. i can't really rely on it working very properly atm.
I think, next step is to take it to a testbench, and see what they can tell me. It's a bit pricey at 50 Euros for 1 run, but if it helps me clear up this issue, it'll be 50 euro's well spent.
Did you try to restart it? turn it off then wait 5 seconds and turn it back on. :icon_mrgreen:
Hm... this may be a stupid question, but is it possible that your bike was restricted to lower HP?
Have you noticed some washers on the intake side while mounting those air filters?
Sent from my toilet seat using HTC FartPhone
Quote from: J_Walker on April 28, 2015, 11:37:30 AM
Did you try to restart it? turn it off then wait 5 seconds and turn it back on. :icon_mrgreen:
As an IT worker i approve of this joke :laugh:
Quote from: Shepa on April 28, 2015, 12:21:45 PM
Hm... this may be a stupid question, but is it possible that your bike was restricted to lower HP?
Have you noticed some washers on the intake side while mounting those air filters?
Sent from my toilet seat using HTC FartPhone
I did look for that specifically at the time, and thought i didnt have restrictors in them anymore.
I also have had the carbs apart a couple of times allready, I didnt find any washers that were out of place.
Can you post me a photo of the restricter you're talking about?
No pictures, but the (intake) restrictors should be metal washers or discs with smaller diameter hole than the intake rubber flange, so if you hadn't notice 'em while disassembling the carbs, they're probably not there.
Sent from my toilet seat using HTC FartPhone
Yeah, i remember now, and they are definately not there. So no restriction there.
Mine does the same in 6th gear.
I have a 17/35 or 17/36t installed, I believe.
It reaches to 80-85MPH (130-140kmh) at around 5k RPM.
When I shift to 5th, and duck forward, it accelerates to 100MPH indicated pretty ok, and creeps up to top speed, which I got to 112MPH indicated once; but ran out of road to test more.
It revs around 9.5k RPM at that speed, I'm just saying from the top of my head...
In 4th gear it does 100RPM per MPH (10k RPM at 100MPH).
All I did was install a new air filter online, and it breathed a lot better; but my throttle works best a little less than fully opened!
Like, open it, release it a bit, and find the sweet spot where the engine pulls the hardest.
The higher the RPM, the higher that optimal point is on the throttle (eg: in 4th gear, I have no problems opening the throttle all the way. In 6th, I can open it 75% at 85MPH, and slowly open it more as I gain speed).
Top I've ran it in 6th with a 17/35 or 17/36t (forgot which one it was), was 95MPH, with a 10 to 20MPH tail wind, ducked forward.
Quote from: MeeLee on May 04, 2015, 06:53:15 PM
All I did was install a new air filter online, and it breathed a lot better; but my throttle works best a little less than fully opened!
You need to rejet. If your running lean you can do horrid things to your motor.
After reading this thread I decided to give my bike a go and I topped out at 90mph, so consider yourself lucky lol
EDIT: just realized 90mph is more than 130kmh :technical: :technical:
I believe some bikes like the GS where restricted, for reasons of insurance or licenses...
They where not to exceed 30BHP or something, to fall into a smaller category of bikes, if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not running too lean. I did raise the needle by 3mm before, but it was running rich (exhaust smelled like gasoline, and became black over time), so I removed the washer, and now raised it by 1.5mm instead of 3, and it seems to work just perfectly.
Top speed now is 85-87MPH, so about a 4mph increase from before.
Before I felt indeed it was starving, especially around 4-6k RPM.
Now it revs really smooth all across the rev range, and MPG is around 52MPG (with 1/2 of the time riding above 80MPH, and 1/4th of the time stuck in traffic). Not so bad, I'd say; though I wished for better.
The Yamaha R3, or the Honda CB300F look like nice replacement bikes, with better fuel efficiency!
:dunno_black:
Quote from: MeeLee on May 05, 2015, 03:31:29 PM
I believe some bikes like the GS where restricted, for reasons of insurance or licenses...
They where not to exceed 30BHP or something, to fall into a smaller category of bikes, if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not running too lean. I did raise the needle by 3mm before, but it was running rich (exhaust smelled like gasoline, and became black over time), so I removed the washer, and now raised it by 1.5mm instead of 3, and it seems to work just perfectly.
Top speed now is 85-87MPH, so about a 4mph increase from before.
Before I felt indeed it was starving, especially around 4-6k RPM.
Now it revs really smooth all across the rev range, and MPG is around 52MPG (with 1/2 of the time riding above 80MPH, and 1/4th of the time stuck in traffic). Not so bad, I'd say; though I wished for better.
The Yamaha R3, or the Honda CB300F look like nice replacement bikes, with better fuel efficiency!
Please, buy a 300, and report back how much better you like it :bs:
Your gasneedle has no influence whatsoever when you're at wide open throttle.
I've bought 145 and 150 mikuni jets this time. Cause there's visibly a difference between Dellorto and Mikuni. I still find it quite interresting though, that with a way to large jet i will reach 140 KMh now. Oh well! I'll report back when i installed my 145 Mikuni jet into my bike.
Here's some photo's BTW.
upper hexagon is mikuni 150
The lower round one is dellorto 148
(http://huis-ict.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20150503_114001.jpg)
(http://huis-ict.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20150503_113958.jpg)
(http://huis-ict.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20150503_114003.jpg)
It may be a bit hard to see on the pictures, but theres a considerable difference in diameter, Also the mikuni is differently structured then the Dellorto.
Quote from: Atesz792 on May 06, 2015, 02:03:31 AM
Quote from: MeeLee on May 05, 2015, 03:31:29 PM
I believe some bikes like the GS where restricted, for reasons of insurance or licenses...
They where not to exceed 30BHP or something, to fall into a smaller category of bikes, if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not running too lean. I did raise the needle by 3mm before, but it was running rich (exhaust smelled like gasoline, and became black over time), so I removed the washer, and now raised it by 1.5mm instead of 3, and it seems to work just perfectly.
Top speed now is 85-87MPH, so about a 4mph increase from before.
Before I felt indeed it was starving, especially around 4-6k RPM.
Now it revs really smooth all across the rev range, and MPG is around 52MPG (with 1/2 of the time riding above 80MPH, and 1/4th of the time stuck in traffic). Not so bad, I'd say; though I wished for better.
The Yamaha R3, or the Honda CB300F look like nice replacement bikes, with better fuel efficiency!
Please, buy a 300, and report back how much better you like it :bs:
Probably a lot better!
The Yamaha R3 is about 50LBS lighter, and lower center of gravity, which makes a lot of difference; all the while having the same top speed. Also has 10-20MPG higher than the GS.
The CB300F only goes to 100MPH, but has a much more comfortable upright seating position, and is around 75lbs lighter, and has about 30MPGs more, so yes, any of these bikes will outdo a GS for me.(very rarely will I take a bike beyond 90MPH anyway).
Kawasaki will come out with a naked version of the Ninja 300 next year, something to look forward to as well...
I think I would get bored too quickly on a 300. I'm already looking forward to a 600cc
Quote from: MeeLee on May 06, 2015, 03:53:13 PM
Quote from: Atesz792 on May 06, 2015, 02:03:31 AM
Quote from: MeeLee on May 05, 2015, 03:31:29 PM
I believe some bikes like the GS where restricted, for reasons of insurance or licenses...
They where not to exceed 30BHP or something, to fall into a smaller category of bikes, if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not running too lean. I did raise the needle by 3mm before, but it was running rich (exhaust smelled like gasoline, and became black over time), so I removed the washer, and now raised it by 1.5mm instead of 3, and it seems to work just perfectly.
Top speed now is 85-87MPH, so about a 4mph increase from before.
Before I felt indeed it was starving, especially around 4-6k RPM.
Now it revs really smooth all across the rev range, and MPG is around 52MPG (with 1/2 of the time riding above 80MPH, and 1/4th of the time stuck in traffic). Not so bad, I'd say; though I wished for better.
The Yamaha R3, or the Honda CB300F look like nice replacement bikes, with better fuel efficiency!
Please, buy a 300, and report back how much better you like it :bs:
Probably a lot better!
The Yamaha R3 is about 50LBS lighter, and lower center of gravity, which makes a lot of difference; all the while having the same top speed. Also has 10-20MPG higher than the GS.
The CB300F only goes to 100MPH, but has a much more comfortable upright seating position, and is around 75lbs lighter, and has about 30MPGs more, so yes, any of these bikes will outdo a GS for me.(very rarely will I take a bike beyond 90MPH anyway).
Kawasaki will come out with a naked version of the Ninja 300 next year, something to look forward to as well...
:icon_rolleyes:
I would want a different bike too if i couldn't use full throttle because my bike wasn't tuned right.
Changing jet's cost $10, buying a tuner for fuel injection: a couple hundred to over a grand depending on ow nice of a tuner you want :dunno_black:
When carbs break you put in new gaskets, when your computer breaks you give the dealer $400 for a new one. If they still carry the part. If they don't your bike is now scrap. Or, you could refit it with carbs :icon_eek:
It just seems to me that computers are more smoother than carbs. I've always have really bad luck when it comes to carbureted vehicles.
Quote from: ragecage23 on May 06, 2015, 07:35:58 PM
It just seems to me that computers are more smoother than carbs. I've always have really bad luck when it comes to carbureted vehicles.
Carbs aren't all that bad. its easy to DIY, and tuning parts are cheap. + there's an abundance of second hand carbs floating around the interwebz.
IM sure a right tuned computer will do the job better, but its all just so expensive.
OT: With changing down the jetsize, to 140 dellorto now, im reaching 145 KM/h allready, So im getting there. I wanted to put in my freshly bough mukini jets, but they didnt fit >:( screw thread too thick. >:(
Carbs. Somewhat simple to do from when I've watched some guys do them. . On bikes and cars! .. but patience with task, attention to detail an 'doing it right!' is required! .. don't rush it. . The faster you go the reminder you get! ;)
I've watched carb shop pro's do a rush/cheapo job too. At a friends request.. the Holley worked... mostly. . 'Was the shops fault' obviously? .. my Holley rebuild at same place was flawless. .. 'sort it out properly please' nod... price was still good too! Lol
Do the whole job, not the good enough job!
I don't know,
there's always something wrong with the GS carb.
It seems to take a cold day, to get the carbs out of sync; and every time you adjust them, you risk of breaking a bolt or nut, or the floater, or whatever.
Usually fuel injection systems, once they work, they work fine, for many years!
Aside from pouring some carb cleaner in the fuel every 5-10k miles, there's really nothing you need to do.
All I want is a lighter bike.
I'm not fond of 400+ LBS top heavy bikes like the GS.
It appears that the Yamaha R3 outperforms the GS in about every area; fuel economy, weight, acceleration, top speed, riding comfort, etc...
Meelee.... meelee... meelee, please......
Ok, here we go again. You know, I don't even have the energy to research if the R3 actually compares as you say it does. The important part of this conversation is *apparently* carbs vs. injection but it *might* be R3 vs GS based on what you just said. So, I'm going to address these one at a time, and try to put this to rest, so we can all go back to thinking about krav's problems (because I'm interested to see how he gets this sorted, but every time I see a new post in this thread it's more off topic. BTW nice pics krav!!)
FIRST OFF Carbs vs Injection. There's really no question that in injection running flawlessly vs carbs running flawlessly, injection will take it. There's no argument there. What some of the other guys (and me) are saying is that when they AREN'T running flawlessly (which WILL happen if you aren't buying a brand new bike every couple years, and might happen even if you do) it's probably going to be preferable to have carbies.
Are they a royal pain to take apart? Yep. I hate it. Do they occasionally do strange things? Yep, see the actual content of this thread. If they break, can you buy bits and bobs to fix them pretty cheap (see every bike part-out on this site, and your local junk yard, and the internet), and then, after a bit of (possibly lots of) tuning, you'll be back in business. With enough research and effort, fixing (non-outlier) carbs to work well can be done on your kitchen table. Breaking internal parts (like you reference) should be pretty difficult if you're not like, using a sledge (hammer, not the user) to disassemble them.
With injection, if it's done, so's your bike. Take it to a shop. Sure, maybe you can do a little diagnosing, but your bike has a brain, and if its brain is fried or malfunctioning, so are its legs. It might be smoother (maybe after you buy a $100 piece of kit, maybe not), and we'll all end up with injected bikes some day, but until I need to, I'm willing to sacrifice some performance in favor of fixability (plus, I kinda like the way carbies feel when they're tuned up :dunno_black: )
Moving on. R3 vs GS
I really have one thing to say about this. The YZF r3 probably DOES kick the pants off the GS. It was released what, almost 20, 25 years after the GS? If it WASN'T vastly superior, then we'd have something to write home about. The R3 also costs the same as 5 gs5s right now, so there's that. I'm sure that even at 300 CCs, it's got VTEC VTEC VTEC VTEC or something similar and all sorts of bits and bobs that make it go quick. Nice. Great. Pray to the Yamaha Gods that it never stops working when you're short on cash, because if it does, straight to the dealership you go. In a truck.
Now, Krav, any developments??
Quote from: MeeLee on May 07, 2015, 11:35:13 PM
I don't know,
Usually fuel injection systems, once they work, they work fine, for many years!
Aside from pouring some carb cleaner in the fuel every 5-10k miles, there's really nothing you need to do.
I'm not fond of 400+ LBS top heavy bikes like the GS
Carb ..... CARB??? Cleaner?? In an injection system? ... Righto... You do know that the cleaner fluids only just maybe might help to slow down crud build up in injectors... Of whatever type of cleaner too!...... They don't restore bad injectors.... Ultrasonic baths or replacements will help though.... Either of which you go to a shop and pay for!
.....Turning up to a nudist beach wearing a sewn on Eskimo suit probably isn't a good idea either!
I don't understand the whole 'I don't like this millstone neckchain I just bought cos it's no good" concept at all!!
Quote from: mennobike on May 08, 2015, 01:01:42 AM
Meelee.... meelee... meelee, please......
Ok, here we go again. You know, I don't even have the energy to research if the R3 actually compares as you say it does. The important part of this conversation is *apparently* carbs vs. injection but it *might* be R3 vs GS based on what you just said. So, I'm going to address these one at a time, and try to put this to rest, so we can all go back to thinking about krav's problems (because I'm interested to see how he gets this sorted, but every time I see a new post in this thread it's more off topic. BTW nice pics krav!!)
FIRST OFF Carbs vs Injection. There's really no question that in injection running flawlessly vs carbs running flawlessly, injection will take it. There's no argument there. What some of the other guys (and me) are saying is that when they AREN'T running flawlessly (which WILL happen if you aren't buying a brand new bike every couple years, and might happen even if you do) it's probably going to be preferable to have carbies.
Are they a royal pain to take apart? Yep. I hate it. Do they occasionally do strange things? Yep, see the actual content of this thread. If they break, can you buy bits and bobs to fix them pretty cheap (see every bike part-out on this site, and your local junk yard, and the internet), and then, after a bit of (possibly lots of) tuning, you'll be back in business. With enough research and effort, fixing (non-outlier) carbs to work well can be done on your kitchen table. Breaking internal parts (like you reference) should be pretty difficult if you're not like, using a sledge (hammer, not the user) to disassemble them.
With injection, if it's done, so's your bike. Take it to a shop. Sure, maybe you can do a little diagnosing, but your bike has a brain, and if its brain is fried or malfunctioning, so are its legs. It might be smoother (maybe after you buy a $100 piece of kit, maybe not), and we'll all end up with injected bikes some day, but until I need to, I'm willing to sacrifice some performance in favor of fixability (plus, I kinda like the way carbies feel when they're tuned up :dunno_black: )
Moving on. R3 vs GS
I really have one thing to say about this. The YZF r3 probably DOES kick the pants off the GS. It was released what, almost 20, 25 years after the GS? If it WASN'T vastly superior, then we'd have something to write home about. The R3 also costs the same as 5 gs5s right now, so there's that. I'm sure that even at 300 CCs, it's got VTEC VTEC VTEC VTEC or something similar and all sorts of bits and bobs that make it go quick. Nice. Great. Pray to the Yamaha Gods that it never stops working when you're short on cash, because if it does, straight to the dealership you go. In a truck.
Now, Krav, any developments??
Bloody good speech!
As a matter of fact, there are developments. The jats that didnt fit (the hexagonals) Well when i went by the store to buy more they were closed. Wasn't to happy about that, Which store does close structurally every wednesday..
Anyway. The photos above do show 2 almost same sized jets, yet theres a big difference in size.
Now when i did even more research, i saw everywhere people were putting ROUND jets in their Gs500 carbs. This seemed strange to me since i thought mikuni only made hexagonal screws.
So i found a nice little shop in my city, where i could actually buy me some round mikuni's. I bought a pair of 142,5's and will be installing them this afternoon.
This is what i've learned:
Mikuni Hex: Measured in CC's of flow
Mikuni round: Measured in micrometers. (just like dellorto)
Don't believe me? Here's a picture.
Left is Dellorto 144
Middle is mikuni round 142,5
right is mikuni hexagonal 145
They might not be lined out perfectly, but its absolutely close enough. Specially since all i have here is office tape, paper and my jets :p
(http://huis-ict.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Mikunijets-debunked.png)
Just spend some time in the workshop:
- Put in 142,5 main jet
- pilot airscrew 3 turns out each
- Balanced the carbs (who knew such little adjustment, could make such a difference!)
Setup:
- Lunchbox
- Takkoni slip-on (no DB killer)
- no restrictors (far is i know)
Balancing the carbs, Man that makes a difference. Its now so incredibly butterly smooth! I could actually relatively comfortably achieve my topspeed, which is 148 KM/h now. Faster then i've ever seen the bike go! However, not as fast as it can be :( im still 12 Km/h out of my least acceptable target topspeed.
anyone have any ideas where to go next?
Have you tried hitting it with a hammer?
Really, though. I'm at a loss. Are you sure your gear ratios have never been altered?
Modify the wind resistance profile? ... use 5th rather than 6th to boost you up more?
My still stock powertrain Aussie '06f will pull up to 160km indicated before I even tuck down. .. then it's a slightly relaxed/slowish climb to 195km indicated.. IIRC I changed to 6th only after 175km?
doing 175 in 5th? :0 That doesnt sound very healthy for a 1999 engine.
May i assume that 160 indicated is about 150 IRL? My indicator should be spot on at 130 km/h as thats the speed i tuned it at with my gps.
@ Iarn, Its hard to say if someone has changed the gears inside the gearbox, but its a possibility. The sprockets ar 16/39 though, which is standard and i have the rear wheel + tire from a 2003 Gs500.
I think my chain and therefore sprockets may be wearing out though. Could this issue be caused by worn out chain and sprockets? I know i should change them soon anyway, but can it be a factor in this problem?
I've also tried setting up my tachometer, to no avail so far (Vapor dash from trailtech) So thats no help either.
Worn chain/sprockets won't effect top speed much. An old rusty chain my rob a few ponies, but not like your experiencing. And worn sprockets won't slow you down unless the chain is skipping teeth. Wish I could tell you where else to look
:icon_eek: those jets... woah.
Sorry about your power issue, I've got no idea :dunno_black: valve check, just for kicks? :cheers:
Hm, valve clearance i checked less then a year ago, i did change some shimms out, don't remember why exactly.
I guess ill see if i can have it compression tested somewhere. maybe my valves or seats or gaskets are just worn.
is there a top RPM limit while driving in your gears? might be that there is a tiny tear in a carb diaphragm. I dunno though, by now this is well past the point at which I can provide any helpful advice.
paging Buddha....Buddha to the tread, please...
Are you sure you're not dragging the rear brake, or maybe have a missaligned rear wheel (to the same effect)?
Is the engine achieving redline rpms in your top speed measurements?
Sent from my toilet seat using HTC FartPhone
A good point in last 2 posts, will your engine reach redline in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears?
Oh main, i wish i could tell you which RPM's my engine makes, but the tachometer in my dash sucks massive donkey.... ears. I can't seem to install it in a way were it will tell me accurately what RPM's im making :S
I do feel though i can get it in to very high rev's in 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. way more RPM's than in 6th.
Oh, and im sure im not dragging brakes manually. Maybe its poorly installed, that may cause drag maybe, but im not dragging my rearbrakes with my foot.
Your speedometer works and you have standard gearing and rear tire size. Will it go close to 48, 67, and 86 in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd respectively?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500gearing-rpms_zps86c965d4.jpg)
My 97 was same as yout 99 stock, parts fiches are same for all 97-00 GSs and my 97 completely stock would break the redline in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. I soon learned though that with 8500 rpm and 7000 rpm hp and torque peaks there was nothing to gain going past 9k rpm and would run for hours keeping it between 7-9k rpm in the mountains.
Check your ignition timing. Carbs arent everything, if your timing is off or not advancing correctly, you will lose power big time, especially at high rpms.
A harbor freight timing light is cheap and does the job fine.
Mph right?! Doing 47 mph in first, and 67 in 2nd seems crazy to me. I will see how fast it will go though today.
My ignition. Haven checked that one out yet. Ill have a look at that aswell.
Quote from: Krav on May 09, 2015, 09:41:43 AM.............I do feel though i can get it in to very high rev's in 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. way more RPM's than in 6th.............
Just saying like others have suggested is it possible your bike has breathing difficulties due to restricted intake or exhaust? You have altered both the intake and exhausts of that bike. Reving it up in a lower gear can check that without the wind resistance of higher speeds.
You will never reach the highest rpm's in 6th gear, your GS is geared to reach it's normal top speed at about the HP peak, around 8500 rpm and won't go any faster with wind resistance although it might go a bit higher with a good job of modifying intake, exhaust, and carb jetting. Your present jets seem very large to me, I reached an indicated speed of 110 mph probably an honest speed of about 100 mph with my 97 engine and did it with stock carbs. My 97 bought new had about 50k miles on it at that time.
Sooo, i did some testing yesterday. About the max i would do in a specific gear:
1st: about 60 km/h , which is 80% of the theoretical topspeed: 74 km/h (48mph)
2nd: about 90 km/h, which is 83% of the theoretical topspeed: 108 km/h (67mph)
3rd: about 113 km/h, which is 82% of the theoretical topspeed: 138 km/h (86mph)
it seems to underperform about 80% of the theoretically possible speed everytime in low gears. Im quite sure it reached redline, as the RPM were much MUCH higher then normal. I did find out something though.
Yesterday, when most of this was tested, it was quite nice, around 20 degrees Celsius. After a nice long drive with a friend, we entered the highway to go home. Here i tested how far it would go in second. After having established the speed, i'd shift up and proceed to get up to highway speed. Then, sudddenly my TEMP light on the dash went on. (i have a ring under a bougie for the temps). I would link this to the 2nd gear test, i did before, but it was a couple of kilometers later (going around 130km/h). When i inspected the max. temp at my destination it said my cilinder head got to 193C degrees. (light comes on at 175C) I have never seen it surpass even 175.
Could this indicate a lean jet? the excessive heat?
EDIT: This is my current to-checklist.
- Compression test
- Check ignition timing. Stock timing should work right? or should advance timing 5 degrees?
- Check camshaft timing (the shimms should be in spec.)
What happened to your stock tach? can you hook it back up for testing? Do you know anyone with a GS who will let you borrow their tach for a bit? Where do you live? Maybe a near by member has a tach you can borrow.
If you think you are running lean at high rpms, bring some choke on while testing. If the temperature falls, or you notice more power, you may be lean. Remember the choke on our bikes isnt really a choke, but an enrichment circuit. I believe this works by adding pressure to the bottom of the diaphragms. Please correct me if Im wrong on that, but for sure there is no mechanical choke plate to limit air intake.
And if you are courageous enough, if you can find a safe spot to do so, run the bike up high in second gear until the temp rises. Then kill the motor and coast with the clutch in to a stop. Pull both plugs out and see how they look. People have tuned two strokes like that for years, and short of an air-fuel analyzer, its the best way to find out what kind of mixture you have at various throttle openings and engine speeds.
Quote from: Slack on May 11, 2015, 09:03:06 AM
What happened to your stock tach? can you hook it back up for testing? Do you know anyone with a GS who will let you borrow their tach for a bit? Where do you live? Maybe a near by member has a tach you can borrow.
My original tach got slashed up a bit in a crash i had about half a year ago. i ditched it and threw it out. Im the first one of my friends, and the only one i really know of my friends and family to get a motorcycle (what a rebel xD) I don't know anyone with a motorcycle, let alone a Gs500. But in about 2 weeks i'm able to get my hands on a set of original clocks.
I DID do some adjustments to my vapor dash setup yesterday, and it seems to be VERY stable at the moment. Response is still slower than it could be though. but its not all over the place anymore. Who knows...
Quote from: W201028 on May 11, 2015, 03:09:45 PM
If you think you are running lean at high rpms, bring some choke on while testing. If the temperature falls, or you notice more power, you may be lean. Remember the choke on our bikes isnt really a choke, but an enrichment circuit. I believe this works by adding pressure to the bottom of the diaphragms. Please correct me if Im wrong on that, but for sure there is no mechanical choke plate to limit air intake.
And if you are courageous enough, if you can find a safe spot to do so, run the bike up high in second gear until the temp rises. Then kill the motor and coast with the clutch in to a stop. Pull both plugs out and see how they look. People have tuned two strokes like that for years, and short of an air-fuel analyzer, its the best way to find out what kind of mixture you have at various throttle openings and engine speeds.
Ill play around with the choke a bit this afternoon. The temperature is more of a side-effect in my eyes. I've been f#$king around a lot with jets lately, all dell orto's. The first mikuni jet i put in makes it get to hot, and since its the lowest on beergarage and the wiki for this setup, i guess ill just have to assume to raise my jets a bit. Or i get it to a dyno first. then ill know for sure. But that isn't in my budget range righ not.
Im not good at plug reading. I've done a lot of tinkering on 2 strokes, but somehow the plug always looks a healthy light brown-ish color to me, 2 stroke, 4 stroke, 50 70 or 500cc. nah, im not great at that :p
Just another small thingy.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/ben_2_go/Motorcycle%20Stuff/Mikuni%20BST33SS%20Carbs/engineside-1.jpg)
The side vacuum ports on both carbs, I've got them both capped off with a bit of tube and a screw in the end. I don't see a lot of carbs, but are those ports supposed to be capped off?
I have no frame petcock btw. Its a burden.
oh, and the vent (not marked in this picture), between the carbs, i've got that one hosed up just hanging with my coils, to the front. could this cause a problem?
Hey guys, I came across this when exploring the possibilities on the interwebz:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ni.motorcycles/MKswPKe1RQU
Specifically this post:
Quote
Hawker wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:42:54 +0100, "Rebecca Walton"
> <les...@poohey.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >Oooh yes. I had one of them. Performance isn't it's forte - in a
> >waterproof oversuit on a windy day, it'd struggle past 80ish in top.
>
> Either that was one hell of a head wind, or there was something
> quite wrong with your bike....
No, in a way she's right. In 6th gear a GS500 won't go over 90mph. In
5th, however it will very happily wind up to 100mph+. I've gone a few
miles at 90-100 and it didn't seem to mind. The wind was a Buddha Loves You,
however.
Never measured the times on anything. However, I can say that things
are much more interesting if you keep the RPM around 8k.
(Brief digression: I think that people get used to not revving the
engine much in their cars, so they come to believe winding up their
motorcycle is a bad thing too. It ain't. Keep it under the red-line,
go easy on the clutch, and change your oil, and you won't hurt anything
running at high RPM.)
The suspension is a bigger limiter than the engine. Supposedly
replacing the front springs will help a lot but I have yet to try it,
myself.
In new bikes, get a SV650 over a GS500. In used, GS500 is your only
option, but it's a good one.
MJF
'98 GS500E
'82 GL500I
Quote from: Krav on May 12, 2015, 02:01:07 AM
Just another small thingy.
oh, and the vent (not marked in this picture), between the carbs, i've got that one hosed up just hanging with my coils, to the front. could this cause a problem?
I think that hose is supposed to go back, over the battery, and down. Having it pointing forward could pressurize it in the wind and cause problems. I'm not positive about that though. . .
Did a test drive yesterday. I took it to 135-140 Km/h in 5th, then shifted to 6th, and it would pull! :D It took me up to 152.8 Km/h! :D Fastest till this day!
Anyway, when i circled around, and wanted to give it another try, it would drop my performance a bit, and six'th felt more like a burden then a blessing. I also found the choke to be hard to operate going 140km/h+
Monday next week ill do a compressiontest, to be sure that power SHOULD be available. And when i get new funds available, ill have a dyno test.
So i took it for another drive today, and took it to 140 km/h in 5th. Then when i shifted to 6th it would pull. Just at the end of my free runway i took it up to 158,9 km/h
I'd say the problem is clear to me now! When i don't go to 140 in 5th, it won't go faster in 6th, if i do it will. So i guess its a performance issue of somekind. I hope the compressiontest will be positive monday, if so, i should probably proceed to finetune my carb and advance my ignition.
I'd say, close this thread! If i need ill open another one. This one has changed too much.
Thanks everyone so far for your help! :D
Quote from: gsJack on May 09, 2015, 12:10:32 PM.............................I soon learned though that with 8500 rpm and 7000 rpm hp and torque peaks there was nothing to gain going past 9k rpm and would run for hours keeping it between 7-9k rpm in the mountains.
Quote from: Krav on May 13, 2015, 11:16:37 AM............................I'd say the problem is clear to me now! When i don't go to 140 in 5th, it won't go faster in 6th, if i do it will. So i guess its a performance issue of somekind.......................
Like I said above I found 7-9k rpm to be the range of best performance of my stock 97 GS and 9k rpm in 5th gear is about 100 mph (160 km/h) although wind resistance becomes a greater factor at those speeds. Shifting at 9k rpm drops you down to about the peak of the torque curve. It is a performance issue, shifting to 6th too soon you don't have enough power (revs) yet to pull top speeed in 6th. Sixth gear is your interstate overdrive cruising gear.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/MikesGS500dynoRuns-1.jpg)
You probably could put a washer under the jet needle.
It'll raise it a bit, run richer in the mid-throttle positions, and pull more linear.
I always found it pulled ok upto about 5k RPM, then did bad up'till about 7k rpm (est. guess, I can't remember the real values anymore), and then started to pull again at 7+ K RPM to about 9.5k RPM (or something like that).
Raising the jet needle helped the bike to pull better over the entire range, save for top speed, which hasn't changed.
33MPG top speed, 52MPG raised needle @~75-85MPH, 54MPG stock @75-85MPH.
@Meelee
This thread was about wide open throttle performance. Specially at the high end. Therefore the needle is no longer a factor of influence.
Ill know more after a compression test i have on monday, and a dyno run somewhere within the coming month.
@gsJack,
I guess i've gotten used to low RPM's all the time (specially since im missing my tachometer.) Still, it won't get up to 160 Km/h with any form of ease. Therefore i'll still look over the fact that im down on WOT power :)
Quote from: MeeLee on May 06, 2015, 03:53:13 PM
Quote from: Atesz792 on May 06, 2015, 02:03:31 AM
Quote from: MeeLee on May 05, 2015, 03:31:29 PM
I believe some bikes like the GS where restricted, for reasons of insurance or licenses...
They where not to exceed 30BHP or something, to fall into a smaller category of bikes, if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not running too lean. I did raise the needle by 3mm before, but it was running rich (exhaust smelled like gasoline, and became black over time), so I removed the washer, and now raised it by 1.5mm instead of 3, and it seems to work just perfectly.
Top speed now is 85-87MPH, so about a 4mph increase from before.
Before I felt indeed it was starving, especially around 4-6k RPM.
Now it revs really smooth all across the rev range, and MPG is around 52MPG (with 1/2 of the time riding above 80MPH, and 1/4th of the time stuck in traffic). Not so bad, I'd say; though I wished for better.
The Yamaha R3, or the Honda CB300F look like nice replacement bikes, with better fuel efficiency!
Please, buy a 300, and report back how much better you like it :bs:
Probably a lot better!
The Yamaha R3 is about 50LBS lighter, and lower center of gravity, which makes a lot of difference; all the while having the same top speed. Also has 10-20MPG higher than the GS.
The CB300F only goes to 100MPH, but has a much more comfortable upright seating position, and is around 75lbs lighter, and has about 30MPGs more, so yes, any of these bikes will outdo a GS for me.(very rarely will I take a bike beyond 90MPH anyway).
Kawasaki will come out with a naked version of the Ninja 300 next year, something to look forward to as well...
I did a demo day with Yamaha. I rode the R3, R6, FZ-07 and FZ-09.
I did a demo day with Honda. I rode the CBR300R, The CBR500R, and the CBR 600 RR.
My buddy has a Ninja 300.
Of the 300 class, I rank them as follows:
R3
Ninja 300
CBR 300R
The R3 pulls noticeably better than the other two, and turns better, handles smoother. The seating position is more natural (although slightly cramped for me at 6'2"). I rode them just for fun, because there is no way I was going from a 500 to a 300...However, I would like my chances VS a stock version of any of these three new bikes on my modified GS500 any day of the week on a track with turns. I paid less than 1/3 of the cost of these bikes for my GS and with my mods I've made I am well under half of the cheapest ones costs. The only benefit any of them have over the GS is that they are more reliable as new machines.
You might want to do some more work on your GS, MeeLee. It sounds like you've got it out of synch or something if you think these bikes are any faster or better than your GS.
I didn't say they where faster,
perhaps the R3 is about just as fast,
but they definitely are better for me.
I like their lower weight. even if it was by 50LBS, and lower center of gravity, makes a lot of difference for me!
In fact, the CB300F almost feels between a bike and a bicycle to me!
@Krav:
I didn't think the thread was about wide open throttle.
I thought it was about not going faster than 130kmh (80 something mph).
Raising the needle gives more power in those speeds below 80MPH, and might give him the push needed to get it going faster.
He mentioned something about not being able to pass the speed plateau on his bikes, but in moments he did, he was able to go upto normal speed limits on his bike.
Raising the needle a bit, might make it easier for his bike to reach to the 130kmh he has trouble reaching, and thus surpassing it easier is also not out of the realms of possibilities.
Quote from: MeeLee on May 16, 2015, 12:39:04 AM
I didn't think the thread was about wide open throttle.
Maybe you should have read the very first post in this thread before filling it with your mindless babbling garbage about how all you want is an electric bicycle because you don't have the proper skills and techniques to ride a bike like the gs500 which is already VERY light weight with a low center of gravity compared to 98% of bikes on the road.
Maybe you should have read Krav's first responce to your needle suggestion on page 1 when he told you the SAME FN THING! The needle doesn't effect WOT!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop re-posting worthless info if you aren't going to read people's responses to your ideas.
When i want to reach a top speed, its WOT all the way. im not going like: Oh, 7500 RPM, Better open my throttle only 75%. Offcourse not, from 1rpm till 10.000rpm wide open throttle all the way!
I know! I know! old topic alert!!!
For the sake of people finding this topic and wanting to know what my problem was, i found out today.
When i was adjusting my gasneedles a bit richer, i found out that on one of my carbs the little oring at the top was missing!
Replaced the o-ring, rebalanced the carbs, Problem solved!!
Did a test drive right after, and BAM made 170km/h and it would go a bit faster, but i had seen enough.
Soooooooooooooo. Those little vacuum o-rings... Make sure they're there!!!!
Glad you figured it out!!
Want to post some pictures for the future generations to know what you're talking about? :cheers:
Glad you figured it out :cheers:
Pics are in the carb stickie. The picture even points to the little o-ring and says, "be careful not to loose this, it will cause lots of problems" or something to that nature.