The reason I ask is that I have an oil dipstick thermometer, like this one
(http://i.imgur.com/ul88dJdm.jpg)
This is not something I got recently by the way. And ever since I got it, when commuting, a little bit of traffic, lane splitting, and revving up to 8000rpm somewhat often, my oil always hit at least 120ºC, and in hotter days, 130ºC, in a few very hot days, it hits 135ºC.
I had this for about two years, so I'm sure that just how this bike behaves, I've had the bike running a little lean, rich, old oil and new oil, 10w40 and 15w50 oil, valves both in spec and out of specs, and it doesn't significantly affect the measured temperatures. I know the bike is surviving fine even like that, but from what I've seen, this oil temperature seens really hot. Wouldn't having an oil cooler help the life of the engine? And why did suzuki decided it just wasn't necessary?
Unless I'm mistaken, didn't the original GS500 have no fairing? I think it was a naked. As such it was designed with no oil cooler.
The oil cooler would have been an add on for faired versions since the fairing clocked airflow to the engine.
Suzuki didn't decide it wasn't necessary and omit it on the naked version, they decided it was necessary and added it on the faired version...
Quote from: Watcher on June 12, 2015, 10:30:39 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, didn't the original GS500 have no fairing? I think it was a naked. As such it was designed with no oil cooler.
The oil cooler would have been an add on for faired versions since the fairing clocked airflow to the engine.
Suzuki didn't decide it wasn't necessary and omit it on the naked version, they decided it was necessary and added it on the faired version...
Forward movement is what cools air cooled bikes, fairing or no fairing does not change the need to be moving to cool the engine, oil coolers have nothing to do with fairings.
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on June 12, 2015, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: Watcher on June 12, 2015, 10:30:39 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, didn't the original GS500 have no fairing? I think it was a naked. As such it was designed with no oil cooler.
The oil cooler would have been an add on for faired versions since the fairing clocked airflow to the engine.
Suzuki didn't decide it wasn't necessary and omit it on the naked version, they decided it was necessary and added it on the faired version...
Forward movement is what cools air cooled bikes, fairing or no fairing does not change the need to be moving to cool the engine, oil coolers have nothing to do with fairings.
It does, fairings block a part of the air reaching the engine.
That's why the G500F has an oil cooler and GS500E doesn't.
But about my thread, I'm not asking how come the engine won't just blow up without an oil cooler, my question whether or not lower oil temperatures, by just adding an oil cooler, would help parts of the engine to last long, since 130ºC is not an okay temperature to have the oil at in most engines.
Ummm.... I'll just say I agree with Steve. The only time a fairing is blocking air flow to an engine is when the bike is stopped in traffic and there is a cross breeze. I think GSJack and Twocool had some interesting posts about the addition of the cooler on the F models.
Suzuki has been making parallel twin 4 stroke engines since the late 70's and excessive oil temperatures aren't what kill them. Think about it: there have been hundreds of thousands of air cooled bikes sold, and many of them spend time in extreme heat and low speeds with no issues.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about your oil temperatures - oil level is by far more important.
Quote from: Yuri. on June 12, 2015, 07:39:19 PM
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on June 12, 2015, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: Watcher on June 12, 2015, 10:30:39 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, didn't the original GS500 have no fairing? I think it was a naked. As such it was designed with no oil cooler.
The oil cooler would have been an add on for faired versions since the fairing clocked airflow to the engine.
Suzuki didn't decide it wasn't necessary and omit it on the naked version, they decided it was necessary and added it on the faired version...
Forward movement is what cools air cooled bikes, fairing or no fairing does not change the need to be moving to cool the engine, oil coolers have nothing to do with fairings.
It does, fairings block a part of the air reaching the engine.
That's why the G500F has an oil cooler and GS500E doesn't.
But about my thread, I'm not asking how come the engine won't just blow up without an oil cooler, my question whether or not lower oil temperatures, by just adding an oil cooler, would help parts of the engine to last long, since 130ºC is not an okay temperature to have the oil at in most engines.
So what is an ok temp? Oil boils off at around 300degC......you are not even half way!!
And ask someone about the thousands of GS500Es that Suzuki sold across Europe, the ones that left the factory with the TCP fairing and NO oil cooler?
Mine is 20 years old now and has never missed a beat :thumb:
Oh...and Yuri, you will sell your GS long before over heated oil becomes an issue, trust me on this one :whisper:
GS500E: 1989-2000 - naked (original)
GS500: 2001 - "E" dropped, swoopy new body, new saddle, new carbs, still naked
GS500F: 2004 - faired version, oil cooler added.
[anal-retentive name sensitivity satisfied]
The oil cooler could have been omitted from the E simply for aesthetics/looks.
I suspect it was a matter of tooling paid off, sitting on the shelf. I bet if we look hard, we can find another suzuki bike, likely of higher price/performance, which had an oil cooler just like the one on our bikes, long before it was added to ours. A budget bike isnt the one to spend r&d money on, but 15 years later, when looking to revamp the appearance/performance of the GS, some engineer probably said "hey, we've perfected the production of this oil cooler, it will fit right on the gs with minor bracketing, and it will look like we spent more time on an already proven design!" One could suppose this of many bike technologies trickling down from high performance to budget; disc brakes, liquid cooling, led lighting, fuel injection. It never starts on the cheaper bike, but eventually ends up there
Maybe while Suzuki was making a UJM look like a sport bike they figured lets add an oil cooler, it will make this non racer look faster than it really is :dunno_black:
Your bike will not survive without an oil cooler.
The Engine will implode in short order. I'm surprised it hasn't already.
Will it be like Alderaan?
Under certain conditions that old GS5 mill is prove to causing oil evaporation, not burning, evaporation............... two different things.
How many people come in here asking where all their oil suddenly disappeared to, usually after a long high speed run in hot conditions?
I think Suzuki finally tried to address the problem, and try to add some appeal to an aged bike with very little going for it.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/new-rider/2010/december/dec1510-know-your-bikes-oil-consumption-/
Quote from: sledge on June 17, 2015, 01:25:57 AM
Under certain conditions that old GS5 mill is prove to causing oil evaporation, not burning, evaporation............... two different things.
How many people come in here asking where all their oil suddenly disappeared to, usually after a long high speed run in hot conditions?
I think Suzuki finally tried to address the problem, and try to add some appeal to an aged bike with very little going for it.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/new-rider/2010/december/dec1510-know-your-bikes-oil-consumption-/
Well if that's the case they screwed up big time, my 500F consumes just as much as older GS's with the same mileage.
Just sayin'
I wouldn't make a comparison based on that observation.
Take an E and F, in similar condition/mileage, fill em with cheap oil, blat around the suburbs for a day and see which looses the most, then thrash it through the desert all day on WOT and see which looses the most :thumb:
Yeah, the GS is way hotter than any other bike I've ever owned (I have the 2004 with fairings).
On my last ride it went through half a tank of oil. (probably a seal broke), but the evaporation more is a thing that happens at very fast paced motion, like the valves.
When you just came from an interstate ride of 20 min or more, and 'try to' open the oil dip stick, there's a mist in there, as if the oil was boiling.
There are many ways how oil turns into damp inside the engine.
I just had fun watching Chevrolet's 1937 version of the engine and oil, and it's function in the engine,
Would t it make sense to fit a catch tank to the breather then?
Why not? You could measure the amount of loss per thousand miles, or however you wanted to standard it. Compare it to the amount left in the sump when you change the oil next, and see how much the motor is burning vs evaporating.
A friend of mine used a NOS energy drink bottle for just this purpose on his EX500. Gives riders who get it a good laugh, and makes the average person think your bike is packing some real power!
I wonder if oil use is an actual disadvantage. Provided the oil is kept topped up, use implies that the oil additive package is continually boosted as fresh oil is added over the course of the oil drain interval. I thnk the actual issue is whether there is increased wear or not over the interval.
I doubt that oil evaporation accounts for much of what comes out of the crankcase vent of the GS. The rather high oil consumption experienced above 50k miles or so on a worn GS engine that was probably looser than most when manufactured would be accompanied by a large amount of blowby and by water vapor.
I have drained very little of anything from the air box drain tube in 180k miles of GS riding. Any oil that may have evaporated in the crankcase was recycled thru the combustion chambers with the incoming fuel/air mixture. If you want to catch it in a bottle you'll be hard pressed to determine how much of the mix is from exaporated oil.
The oil tests Sledge refers to are measuring evaporation from a sample heated to 250* centigrade for an hour, GS oil might run half that temp. As a matter of fact one of the first things I noticed on my first GS was how cool it ran compared to the 4 air cooled 80's Hondas I had before them.