Anyone ever tow their GS with a Honda Civic or equivalent?
It's all I have right now and I will need a trailer to get to track days this spring. Trailer in question will weigh around 250lbs, my GS probably weighs 360 or so dry, with the parts that I've removed, plus figure another 50lbs of stuff I might load up on the trailer, like extra fuel and tools.
Adam
There is a difference between CAN I tow and SHOULD I tow.
You CAN tow just about anything with any vehicle.
I used to use a Ford Tempo as a tractor. Pulling trailers full of gravel, apples, dirt, junk etc etc...
2 clutches, 2 sets of brake, rear suspension etc... later, I realised why they advised not to tow with that vehicle.
I used my Alero to pull a trailer with 2 bikes from ontario to PA. It had a 155 HP 150 tourque engine, and it didn't work so well. I got there and back, but I won't do it again.(mostly cuz I sold that car and bout a truck...but I wouldn't have don it anyways, it would have killed my car)
I doubt that a 110 HP 110 tourque engine will fare well with repeated towings. I would advise against it.
I concur. Even small trucks aren't all that good at towing. My GMC sonoma 3.9 4 cly. was fine for towing a small, two bike, single axle trailer, but is showing signs of torque converter problems from only one of those was up to Road Atlanta and back with a race bike and parts (about 600lbs) AND towing an 1800 lb camper trailer.
Little cars and trucks just aren't designed for heavy loads. And you can totally forget them if you have to go up and real hills.
You can do what I intend to do next year when I can't hitch a ride with friends with trailers. Rent a U-haul or cargo van for the weekend. You don't have to worry about miles or wear and tear, and you can usually rent one for a weekend for less than $150, which is MUCH less than the usual monthly payment for a comparable truck.
My wife thought of that (an't she smart!).
is the honda 5 spd or auto? if it's 5 spd and you can drive a manual good then you shouldn't have any problems....
in Europe, we used to tow trailers full of material with cars with 850 and 1100 cc engines....
since the honda is torqueless then you have to be carefull not to burn your clutch...
Quote from: GRUis the honda 5 spd or auto? if it's 5 spd and you can drive a manual good then you shouldn't have any problems....
in Europe, we used to tow trailers full of material with cars with 850 and 1100 cc engines....
since the honda is torqueless then you have to be carefull not to burn your clutch...
Actually autos are able to tow more weight.
where did you get that idea from?
if a car has a engine that produces 150 HP and 130 ftp of torque, and if you put a auto and manual trans on a dyno, which one would get more HP and torque to the wheels?
My two cents- I wouldn't tow a trailer with any vehicle not intended for that use. I could see if it was a short trip in an emergency situation, but for towing for any sort of log distance, it's probably not a good idea. I would go along with the idea of renting a uhaul of truck. It will save the wear and tear on your vehicle. You can also rent ramp trailers from uhaul that work well for towing bikes and equipment. Either way have fun.
Later.
I don't see any problems. A simple trailer with 1 GS on it will tow fine.
Your figuring around 600+ pounds or so. It's no worse than a carload of fatsos :lol: :lol:
The only possible rough spot would be long uphill hauls.
GO FOR IT. ;)
Any car with an automatic transmission will tow better than the same car with a manual transmission EXCEPT if you are an absolute ninja at clutch modulation. The wear from any slip at all will be magnified when towing. Look at the big F250 or similar trucks with the HD Diesel engine and Allison transmission.......great for towing.......and the Allison is an automatic. It's all about the torque converter.
Some full-size pickup owners opt for the 5 and 6 speed manuals because the automatics have a reputation of burning up when pulling 5th wheel trailers. Most likely, Allisons used in pickup apps are not the HD versions found in Freightliners and such. Manuals have been lasting 80,000 miles and more.
Quote from: GRUwhere did you get that idea from?
if a car has a engine that produces 150 HP and 130 ftp of torque, and if you put a auto and manual trans on a dyno, which one would get more HP and torque to the wheels?
I got that idea from my dad. When I graduate from highschool he said they are selling everything and gettin a 1-ton auto dualy and a 5th wheel. I thought manuals were better than autos at towing but the manual wasn't able to tow as much as the automatic. I'm still not sure why I just know its true.
The problem with towing with a FWD car is that it lacks a sturdy frame on which to anchor a hitch. Some of the late model FWD cars such as the Taurus, I think, do offer optional towing packages but the Civic is probably not one of those. Of course, that doesn't stop people from towing trailors with their econoboxes.
My Honda Civic is a 1991 DX Hatchback 5spd. Draw-tite makes a hitch for this specific model and I think the car is rated to tow 1000lbs, although I don't remember where I came across that stat.
I would only be towing one bike, either my GS or maybe a Yamaha FZ600 (not much heavier, and not both at the same time) and trips would be either to California Speedway, which is 20min away via flat highway or Willow Springs Raceway which is 2hrs away on the other side of the San Gabriel Mountains :(
Maybe trailer for Cal Speedway, U-haul for Willow?
Just use the civic and see how it goes first.
When you see a hill ahead, just floor it and get moving about 90mph so you won't start up the hill at 55 :o
Quotewhich one would get more HP and torque to the wheels?
The idea of a Torque Converter is to allow the engine to reach a higher rpm/power range without burning clutches in order to move said load. Automatic trannys have come a Long way in past 20 years. Automatic transmissions in the 70's and early 80's were mostly geared the same the difference was in the finnal drive (rearend gearing). now with companies building transmissions with 4,5 and 6 gear packs. the ratios can be lower to start and closer together. Prime example, look at old tow trucks. 4 speeds with that "Granny low" manual trannies. problem was, Burnt clutches, broken U-joints and even gears in both tranny and rear were common.
now, enter the heavy duty torque converter and 4 speed tranny. No sudden shock of power transfer, no feathered clutches to burn(get to second point on clutch burn in bit) only fluid being forced by one paddle wheel against another paddle wheel driving a shaft. for those who dont know, when a autotrany is in drive/rev. the clutch pack is locked (for lack of better term) its done with a Hydraulic piston and a locking strap (locking band) holding the break all day long without moving(as long as there is cooling for fluid) wont wear out the clutches, the torque converter is the only thing slipping. the slipping of the clutchs happen briefly between the different gears as they change, or under Heavy loads.
raitos are configured through what is called planetary/sun gears for each clutch pack, no, im not going into detail here, its abit deeper then i want to go. But to sum up Bill Nye's lecture autotrannys thesedays are just as good for Consumer towing/hauling as manuals, but like anything else, it should be rated for the kind of work to be done. Moving 200 pounds across the floor aint as bad as pulling it up stairs, or a ramp for that matter.
pardon, garson! more meds please.
there is a difference in a honda civic auto trans and a ford F250 alison trans....big difference...
he asked about towing a GS with a honda civic (not a pickup) so i just said that it would do a whole lot better if he had a 5 spd in his civic (not pickup) then if he had a auto trans....
auto trans are good, but nothing is better then manual....torque converter alows the engine to run at higher RPM when moving slow? with a manual you are in control, so you can run at 6000 rpm when moving 30, 50 or 100 MPH....
adam, go for it man :thumb:
To tow You need rear wheel drive... Well not need but helps a lot... I towed a fully loaded 6X12 U haul trailer.... ~ 7500+ lbs easy with my mazda 4 liter 6 cyl... from Boston to SF... and the truck was fine. It wasn't rated for that BTW. It was a manual too. My F150 with auto does it easier... but the mazda was great.
Cool.
Srinath.
Don't crying to me when your 1991 Civic needs a new clutch, brakes and suspension.
Maybe, if it was a newer civic you could get away with it for a while.
Hope you don't kill your car. :cheers:
Quotetorque converter alows the engine to run at higher RPM when moving slow?
the Idea is to let the engine spin up to higher RPM's and produce more power/torque to get the weight moving. Once moving, maintiaining speed doesnt require even 1/3 the power (climbing hills not counted)
Yes there is a big diff between civic and f250 trany, duh. look at what each was designed to do. Mass transit buses use auto trannies too and there is a big diff between it and the F250 tranny. you wouldnt use an F250 to move 60+ passengers +carry on's in stop and go traffic for 16hours per day 7days perweek. just as you wouldnt use a civic to pull a Bobcat or ditch witch. But pulling A, 1, single motorcycle under 500lbs, limiting in car cargo to 1 extra person,box of tool aprox 30lbs,1 set of tires, buy your fuel close to track, and dont eat too many coffee cakes. keep your speed moderate, dont go passing alot of other drivers. you should do ok
This is also keeping in mind the civic trany is in good shape. for added help, get spring boosters for rear springs. i will generaly run 5lbs over in my tires on long hauling trips but thats a personal call, i take no part in damage done to body or property.
Yes, I made the mistake of using my 1991 5 spd integra to tow a bike. The auto parts store guy told me the trailer would work fine for towing one bike and a 250 lb trailer. I think he forgot to mention that it would roast my clutch and practically render my rear suspension useless.
It may mess up your clutch, but if the suspension is taking a beating, then you are not distributing the weight properly. With only a GS and a few supplies on a small trailer like he described, he should not have more than about 30-50 pounds of tongue weight on the suspension. Less than the equivalent of carrying a person around in the back seat.
I have a '95 Nissan pickup with the 2.0L 4 cylinder and 5-speed manual transmission. Several times I pulled a 16' tandem axle trailer with four 4-wheelers (Honda Recon, Yamaha Banshee and Warrior, and a Kawasaki Bayou 220) on it 3 hours each way to Camp Claiborne. Properly loaded the truck did not squat in the rear. It pulled them adequately, though it did not stop worth a damn. :o The truck is rated at 134HP. 190,000 miles on it so far and no clutch/transmission trouble as of yet.
A Civic with a manual transmission should pull a single GS on a small trailer without problems. Just don't fry the clutch and allow room for braking. It's no worse than carrying 3 adults inside the car. Keep the load balanced and all should be fine. Anyway, its to track days. Not every day use.
hey glenn9171, i thought the nissan p'ups of those years had the 2.4's, sorry didnt mean to nit-pick ;) , my hardbody did, pulling a 12 footer w/ lawn equip. on it. youre right 'bout the brakes though, mine 87, was doin same thing, till master cyl quit. had to remember to pump pedal to stop :x :x my frontiers a little better. as far as the civic goes, id try it, on the flats first and see how it handles, but it wasnt designed to tow, really, it may have a rating, but... so does a volkswagen beetle. (my '73 did anyhoo), it wouldnt pull worth shiz civic probably would do better, but id be careful :thumb:
I really don't see what the problem is. Here in Europe these cars are used to pull much heavier loads like caravans. 110 BHP is easily enough to pull a trailer with only a GS on it, even through the mountains. If you have a good trailer, it will have brakes on it (like any caravan also has) so you won't have problems with the brakes of your car, unless you are braking all the time when going downhill. (use engine braking instead).
I also don't see why you should have problems with the clutch. If you use 1st gear when accelarating from a stop, you'll barely need to slip the clutch. When you select 2nd gear, don't press the accelerator fully until the clutch has completely been let out. A proper clutch won't slip even under heavy loads. Remember to keep the engine in the powerband, don't shift before 4000-5000 rpm.
We have used an old Honda civic with a small 1.3 L engine (probably no more than 75 HP) to tow about 800 kg's of sand, about the same as the car's own weight. It wasn't faster than a truck, it didn't brake too well, but it worked. And it certainly didn't damage the clutch. (We sold the car with 170.000 km's on it and it still had the original clutch)
I have a 2.0 Subaru Legacy and I've used it to tow a horse-transporter with two horses - up to 1600kg! It wasn't a picnic, but it's possible and the clutch is still OK (over 90000km and two years of towing the horse thing). I guess I'm a clutch-ninja. :nana:
Small loads like a single bike should be no problem at all even for a torque-poor Civic. After all, a trailer + a GS + some accessories is not much more than 4 big people. :)
D.
Here's the solution:
(http://www.jetsystemsdead.com/forum/civic.jpg)
:thumb:
hhahah he saved the money for the trailer and bought a roof rack
Aw man! I've been looking for that pic all week!
:nana:
Quote from: JamesGAw man! I've been looking for that pic all week!
:nana:
Yea, as soon as I read the topic I started searching my hard drive! :lol: 8)
Hey works for me, but, got to be alittle un nerving to ride up that ramp for first few times getting it up there. Bet the drive throughs are alittle tight
I towed tons of heavy stuff with my 110hp Ford Ranger.
Of course, trucks are made for hauling, but Ive drug cars (my Baja Bug), huge trailers full of stuff, and more for hundreds of miles, and it still runs perfect.
I bet he wouldnt have any problems. Just be careful.
guess who is planning to take his focus SPI for a tow session up and down the state.
My friends want to get a bike and now its upto my car to do it.. i got ot get a hitch installed and get other things done.. either case.. i think any help from you guys with regards to how to set up the tounge weight would be good.
Manjul
HI,
I have a Honda Civic. It will tow your bike no probs:0)
for towing you need torque...hp isn't a factor unless you wanna get up to speed with a trailer...