Hi Folks,
What a great site! Only here a couple of days and I have learned so much - so many friendly folks!
Haven't ridden in 20+ years. Even back then - I had a beginners license and would ride on my older brothers bike occassionaly. It has all come back, but in two weeks I have to go for my practical test and am really getting nervous about one part of the test. It is to weave through six sets of cones. Each set is 2 meters apart and between the sets is 4.5 meters. I've noticed in some other countries, they only use one cone. The two - really tests balance and driving at slow, slow speeds. I've included a link below to show you what is looks like. ANY suggestions - what gear I should use - I assume 1st. Break only rear? Feather the clutch? I find when I don't look directly at the cones I do well. Sometimes I do it no problems and have been diligently practicing whenever I can find an empty parking spot, but sometimes I put my foot down and I understand you lose points for that. ANY thoughts ideas, tips or if you are from the area and did this before - how you were graded would be MUCH appreciated. Thank you!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc_C7Mqt8mI
Edward it seems to me that the youtube video was not complete, where is the part where they do the course just on the rear wheel? LOL
I would be open to practicing this with you. I am in Mississauga but also work downtown. I only have my 90 day permit, but get this, I did my test end of August, I have to wait 60 days minimum before I do my M2, and the last day for the M2 test is Oct 15th.
So I am screwed, until the spring. I have to rewrite the exam, get the 90day permit again, and test when they ramp up again.
Very depressing.
I have done a lot of preliminary motoring around just in my parking lot at my work during off hours and have found that I can be quite agile on the GS, even with massive pot holes in the lot. Send me a private message and maybe we can meet and do some practice together. Two heads are better than one.
M
Hi M,
That is crazy about the timing.
How do I send a PM?
Ed
Justwoke up , so bear with me....
Here in PA tthe license test included doing figure eights around 2 cones. The instructor said to go as fast or as slow as I wanted, don't go outside the sectioned off area, etc. Ever hear of Gymkhana?
Stay in 1st, make sure your throttle is smooth as silk (lube the cable), don't be afraid the lean the bike way over while you're upright, and do NOT look at the cones. Looking at the cones is a classic case of target fixation, and the instructor will be watching for that.
Good tips - Funny I forgot my tape measure today so I only practiced figure 8's and u-turns. Never heard of Gymkhana - will google it. How do I lube my throttle? ALSO - I have a 2005 GS 500 F - do you know what it should idle at? In first gear when I'm doing my practice - if I really slow down it almost stalls. Just want to make sure it's me - not the bike. Thanks for the suggestions!
Go slow in first, don't touch clutch, you pull your clutch and you go down. Keep light pressure on rear brake to stabilize bike. Don't touch front brake.
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A Google search on throttle cable lubing will give much better results than I can type out on my phone.... but if your throttle is already smooth, you don't have to worry about it.
I believe the idle should be around 1300rpm +/- 100? It's in the manual, and should be posted around here as well.
Try not to over think the whole test - it will go a lot smoother if you stay relaxed.
I can help lube the throttle cable. I will pm you.
M
secrets to slow (my experience):
back brake.
clutch finesse (particularly on the GS).
smooth, steady revs (so you can modulate momentum with the clutch).
look where you want to go, not where you are right now (no looking down).
TURN YOUR HEAD.
love the lean.
position toward the front of the saddle (lift "the boys" and pull those knickers up snug...bicycle shorts are helpful).
eat.
hydrate.
cheer others on.
cheer yourself on (no self-deprecation on the range).
Not necessarily in that order.
Quote from: bmf on September 19, 2015, 02:00:32 PM
Go slow in first, don't touch clutch, you pull your clutch and you go down. Keep light pressure on rear brake to stabilize bike. Don't touch front brake.
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I don't agree with this advice at all. Use the clutch and stay smooth. For these slow speed maneuvers you can use the throttle to keep the engine in the powerband and modulate the clutch for increases and decreases in power. That way power delivery is linear and predictable. In reality I would probably use some combination of throttle and clutch control. Only use rear brake and only when you really need it.
The most important thing is to weight the bike on the outside of the corner (opposite of high speed maneuvers) so that the bike won't fall into the corner -- this will allow you to take a much tighter and slower corner without falling over.
Yea On a GS shutting the throttle is like you slammed on the brakes. Only bike its worse on - a savage or an MZ. Fewer cyls = more engine braking.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on September 21, 2015, 10:18:59 AM
The most important thing is to weight the bike on the outside of the corner (opposite of high speed maneuvers) so that the bike won't fall into the corner -- this will allow you to take a much tighter and slower corner without falling over.
Yep.
You can even slide your butt to the outside of the seat. And for
really slow tight turns you have to stand up and lean way off the outside.
Hey Gang,
Great advice here. So here is what I read. On one of the Ghymkana sites on bikes - I read that they don't use the clutch. In another article I read that bikes with a carb (mine 2005 GS F), you have to use the clutch. SO - I cut some plastic squares out of an old piece of vinyl siding got my simulated cones - measuring tape and parking lot. Practice, practice and more practice. Slow - and I keep my head up and look just past the last set of cones and when I pull the clutch in, I push a little on the rear break, let the clutch out and lean (I think), I can do the exercise perfectly - struggled at the VERY start - so I have to work on the first set of cones, then it is good. I have to try some of the other suggestions. OH - and this is strange - I don't smile much. While I'm doing this - I can't keep the grin off my face! Part of me thinks it helps. In 11 days I have the test and because I have one shot...I'm panicking! Thank you all and any other thoughts - please post them!!
Bluesmudge, I agree with you for normal riding. For a beginner who might panic going around a stressful cone corner, pulling clutch = losing all momentum = losing control on a slow speed turn = falling into the turn. You use the rear brake to control speed, not the the clutch.
I've heard this on all of the advanced courses I have done.
But if it works for you that's obviously the way you should do it.
Bmf
Quote from: The Buddha on September 21, 2015, 10:21:28 AM
Yea On a GS shutting the throttle is like you slammed on the brakes. Only bike its worse on - a savage or an MZ. Fewer cyls = more engine braking.
Cool.
Buddha.
That is the interesting you say that
I wa just wondering If all bikes were like that, as I am learning my timing during stopping at intersections, which I slo down too quickly I find...
M
Quote from: bmf on September 21, 2015, 07:19:28 PM
Bluesmudge, I agree with you for normal riding. For a beginner who might panic going around a stressful cone corner, pulling clutch = losing all momentum = losing control on a slow speed turn = falling into the turn. You use the rear brake to control speed, not the the clutch.
I've heard this on all of the advanced courses I have done.
But if it works for you that's obviously the way you should do it.
Bmf
Unless things have changed, MSF BRC says use the clutch.
Pulling the clutch in does not cause one to lose all forward momentum.
The danger in going slow is the front brake.
:dunno_white:
CWJ, ive Been busy and have not been able to find the reference until now. On page 162 of the MSF book "motorcycling excellence", it clearly states that when doing slow turns," under no circumstances snap the throttle shut or to squeeze in the clutch -this loss of driveline power will make the motorcycle fall inwards"
I've heard that the MSF has not had is license renewed in various states due to quality control issues, for example California. I wonder if this is an example of that?
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I'll pipe in and say that in my opinion you can slip the clutch if going slow. BUT there is a difference between slipping the clutch and pulling it all the way in. After all, you can only go so slow without stalling out your bike if you don't slip the clutch. And many bikes are very jerky when bogged down to less then 750 or 1000 rmps with the back brake, not at all good when you need to be smooth.
Quote from: bmf on September 23, 2015, 06:15:35 PM
CWJ, ive Been busy and have not been able to find the reference until now. On page 162 of the MSF book "motorcycling excellence", it clearly states that when doing slow turns," under no circumstances snap the throttle shut or to squeeze in the clutch -this loss of driveline power will make the motorcycle fall inwards"
I've heard that the MSF has not had is license renewed in various states due to quality control issues, for example California. I wonder if this is an example of that?
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
I don't believe any of us are saying to snap the throttle closed or pull the clutch all the way in.
You use the clutch (partly engaged/slipping/"finesse" with steadily applied RPM (throttle) to control momentum with the rear brake at parking lot speeds. This is what we were taught in my MSF class.
It seems that we agree . That was my point, that a beginner in a panic situation is likely to pull in the clutch or snap the throttle shut, which will lead to a fall. You don't need to feather the clutch on a cone course unless you are riding a high revving low cc sports bike. Idle speed with a bit of back brake is all you need, and much easier for a newbie to manage.
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"snapping the throttle closed" and pulling the clutch all the way in is preferable to grabbing a handful of front brake while in the middle of a low speed turn. In fact, pulling the clutch all the way in is preferable if one "snaps" the throttle closed as there is coasting instead of stalling.
In my experience, the learner is first taught that the key to control at low speeds is clutch and throttle. I was having trouble in the figure 8 and was told to use the rear brake. It worked for me.
In my experience, the noob is taught to straighten the bars and pull in the clutch in the event of a panic stop.
Ideally, you don't want a noob to panic, but panic is what noobs do. Often in range maneuvers and often on small bikes.
The difference between bmf and the rest of us is likely in our perception of "cone course". In particular I'm thinking about having to make turns in first gear...in my experience this involved some clutch slipping.
The 250 GZ and Nighthawks I learned in seemed to require far less finesse with the clutch lever at low speeds than the GS5.
I don't recall ever seeing anyone drop a bike due to pulling a clutch in.
I've seen folks drop bikes going around slow turns many times while helping out at our rider training here, most from lost momentum (clutch), some from (brake) . Wouldn't say it happens every day but at least every weekend.
To get back to the advanced slow speed training I did recently, they had us riding around as slow as possible, Idling, and only using the back brake for about 30 minutes. Thought my Gs was going to overheat! But it is amazing how slow you can go and him witch control you have. We were forbidden from covering (or using) front brake or clutch during that time, or during subsequent slow speed manouvers.
As I said earlier the benefit was no thinking about two levers that can car you to fall, rear brake squats the bike giving better control, and if anything happens you use the only control you have, the throttle, to pick you up and get out.
Worked for me.
Bmf
Trial's riders can go even slower like completely stopped by slipping the clutch :dunno_black:
But sounds like a fun drill I'll have to try.
When i was doing my lessons had to do some low speed u-turns and it was basically bit of clutch and throttle and back brake and also keep your eyes were you want to go.Can go pretty slow by using the back brake, but you want just enough throttle and clutch not to lug the engine.
Try practice in a vacant car park, i did this.
While this is not the exact course you will ride on, this is one of our Gymkhana short timed courses. Watch his head as he goes around the cones. Notice how he LOOKS at the cone as he goes around then his head snaps to the other cone as he leaves the cone he is circling.
Remember,
you go where you look. As you approach the cone let your eyes follow the
entrance to the circle around the cone. Keep your eyes on the cone as you go around to keep an equal distance from the cone. As you approach the exit, let your eyes follow through the exit to the next cone. Repeat for the next cone.
Ideally you will not touch your brakes or the clutch when doing this maneuver. If you feel you must, I would
lightly apply the rear brake. It is better to lean the bike through the turn. Notice how much the rider is leaning his bike. Be relaxed and loose when you do your course. When you are nervous your muscles will tighten up and you will be jerky on the control of your bike.
Here is another rider on a motorcycle he just bought. He picked it up that morning, we went for a short ride, then headed to Gymkhana practice.
Good luck on the test and have FUN. After all, you are riding your motorcycle. :)
Hi All - had the test this afternoon. Talk about nerves! Funny thing - six of us were being tested in the afternoon session. Not all passed - but ALL were great support to one another. Seriously - it was a strange bond - all of us offering each other words of encouragement, answering each others questions, turning away when one of us messed up so not to have the pressure of staring. What an experience of humanity that was. If this is the way the biking community is - I'm sorry I didn't join earlier on in life. Thank you for all of your feedback and help and suggestions. Luckily - and I say that because it was windy, the serpentine cones are the hardest - I passed. Glad I spent so much time in a parking lot learning how to drive slow and balance - AND found this forum - your tips and encouragement is what made it possible for me to learn what had to be done and then get out and try it over and over and over again! Thanks again!!!!
Glad to hear you passed! :thumb:
Congrats Edward :bstar: :bstar: :bstar:
That's awesome Edward!!! When I took my class and test, that's how my group was with each other too. I am overjoyed to know you passed and had such a great experience :cheers:
:thumb: :thumb:
The community can be like that. It can be some other ways as well...
I've been in my current residence for over decade. I'd never met most of the people that know me here now until I got the bike a couple years ago. They see me working on it and it starts conversations, at times having NOTHING to do with the bike, including people who just this forum - your tips and encouragement is what made it possible for me to learn what had to be done and then get out and try it over and over and over again! Thanks again!!!! anted/needed to talk to (marriage, employment, sociology...).
If the more you ride, the more it will happen. The further you travel the better the stories will get. It will usually start with a bike they used to have...
When it's time: get out, see the world, enjoy the ride.
In the meantime: MORE PRACTICE.
have fun/ride safe.