http://electron6.phys.utk.edu/101/CH4/4.1/Image10bike.gif
The above image is one of very few that gets it right!
Most try to show "centrifugal force"..and show all forces in balance...which is not true.
Many try to show all forces going thru the center of gravity (center of mass) which is also not true. There are actually two moments at work (torques)
It is an unbalanced force which causes the turn..if all forces were in balance the bike would necessarily go straight...with no change in direction!
I guess moat think that Newton is a frig cookie?
Cookie
I remember my physics professor telling me or us, that there was no such thing as centrifugal force, that its just one object changing course and the other trying to continue on in a straight line, but then I got into music, and never continued with physics...LOL
But it is more than just unbalanced, the non-balanced condition is a result of a change in geometry. When you countersteer, you change the spot where the friction point is, or point where the bike is in contact with the road. I suspect you make the distance between the back tire point and the front tire point, shorter. The counter steer rocks the balance point to the back leading edge of the front tire.
I think!...you can tell me I am a newbie and go do something useful...LOL I am just talking, and truthfully am just figuring this out, and dont really know anything...
So called "centrifugal force " is also called a "false force"..it is used to reconcile forces when you take the frame of reference of the rotating body, no using a frame of reference of being on the outside looking in.
You professor had it right.
The force which make a motorcycle turn is centripetal force...an inward force...this force is actually the friction between the tire and the road surface.
To create this friction, in an inward direction, the bike must be at an angle to the horizontal.
Now how the bike get to that angle..that's the question...
But we all know, that if you push on the right handle bar, the bike (and it's rider) will lean to the right, and therefore turn right....
OTOH...I can lean my body way off of the right side of the bike...and still go straight....(the bike will lean to the left...keeping the center of gravity vertical over the tire contact.)
OTOH...I can make turns without even touching the handle bars...not necessarily by leaning my body....it's more like body English, to achieve the same as counter steer.
Cookie
Quote from: GSamIInsane on September 23, 2015, 09:46:28 AM
I remember my physics professor telling me or us, that there was no such thing as centrifugal force, that its just one object changing course and the other trying to continue on in a straight line, but then I got into music, and never continued with physics...LOL
But it is more than just unbalanced, the non-balanced condition is a result of a change in geometry. When you countersteer, you change the spot where the friction point is, or point where the bike is in contact with the road. I suspect you make the distance between the back tire point and the front tire point, shorter. The counter steer rocks the balance point to the back leading edge of the front tire.
I think!...you can tell me I am a newbie and go do something useful...LOL I am just talking, and truthfully am just figuring this out, and dont really know anything...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlc1bGPTR3c
Nice video showing counter steering....
Not the physics behind it...just how it is done in practice...
he also does a brief moment of steering with no hands...which can work..
but really video shows the correct way of steering a motorcycle...
Cookie
I have watched that video, and agree it is a fantastic one. It convinced me to take the radical chance at countersteering to begin with...LOL.
when your hands are off the bars and you lean in one direction or another, the bike responds by counter-steering automatically. The bike leaning is not affecting the steering, the bike responding to the lean is.
I totally agree, my brain sort of hurts now...LOL, this to me, is what makes riding beautiful. Unlocking the mysteries of what makes a bike more stable, and influencing the correct conditions for it to perform.
M
Sounds like you guys would be interested in reading Motorcycle Dynamics.
(http://www.ketchum.org/motopix/dinamoto.gif)