http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/SV650/2017/SV650.aspx
I think it looks great and I'm itching to give it a test ride. I'm personally excited to own one of these new models some day.
I've read around that lots of SV faithfuls have some misgivings about it in regards to a change in frame material and the failure of the Gladius (crappier redesigned SV650).
What do y'all think?
Could be good. . . not that I have money for such things. LOL
Looks like the same chassis as the Gladius, just not as ugly.
As long as the powerplant is solid, I think people will buy it. Naked standards are on the rise, suzuki needs a good competing machine for the CB500 and FZ-07.
I am sorry, Steel frame swap bait and switch on the SV doomed it.
They can try to cover it up in as much tacky plastic as they please .... or leave it un plasticked - we don't care, this is a bike we will need to buy only if its pennies on the dollar after it has a few spots of rust, y'know like the standard GS.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on April 15, 2016, 09:24:19 AM
I am sorry, Steel frame swap bait and switch on the SV doomed it.
They can try to cover it up in as much tacky plastic as they please .... or leave it un plasticked - we don't care, this is a bike we will need to buy only if its pennies on the dollar after it has a few spots of rust, y'know like the standard GS.
Cool.
Buddha.
What happened with the SV? :confused:
Was there some damning event? I'm new to the Suzuki game, so I'm not sure I've heard the story behind the ire. . .
Quote from: Daeouse on April 15, 2016, 11:16:21 AM
What happened with the SV? :confused:
Was there some damning event? I'm new to the Suzuki game, so I'm not sure I've heard the story behind the ire. . .
Well, the SV650 is arguably one of the most loved motorcycle models among Suzuki fans and even outside the brand. Supposed to be the most versatile bike, just the right amount of power, practicality, fun factor... all that. Suzuki practically had the monopoly on the naked standard game. That is, until they stopped production of the SV650 in 2008 and replaced it with that ugly piece of junk the Gladius. Similar design at heart, but lots of cut corners (to save money I guess), ugly fairings... didn't have the same soul. Then Yamaha and Honda came in to fill the vacuum with the CB500 and FZ-07 and at this point I'm sure Suzuki feels like they shot themselves in the foot taking the SV off the market. They've been missing a lot of revenue not offering an everyman's naked standard.
Now they're trying to reintroduce the SV again, but it may be too little too late for them. They've been off the market for a long time now, the FZ-07 is insanely popular and they've pissed off a lot of die hard SV fans. So that's the gist of it.
Quote from: The Buddha on April 15, 2016, 09:24:19 AM
I am sorry, Steel frame swap bait and switch on the SV doomed it.
They can try to cover it up in as much tacky plastic as they please .... or leave it un plasticked - we don't care, this is a bike we will need to buy only if its pennies on the dollar after it has a few spots of rust, y'know like the standard GS.
Cool.
Buddha.
So what's the rub with the steel frame? You might always see people complaining about that, but I don't understand it. It's the same weight, so why are people so against the steel frame, if you don't mind my asking?
Honestly, I might be one of those folks to take the bullet to test out one of these newer generations of SVs. 60mpg, a naked V-twin, awesome looks (in my opinion), respectable power and some upgraded tech with the times... Yeah, this bike looks sweeeeeeeeeet. O0
Quote from: Iarn on April 15, 2016, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: Daeouse on April 15, 2016, 11:16:21 AM
What happened with the SV? :confused:
Was there some damning event? I'm new to the Suzuki game, so I'm not sure I've heard the story behind the ire. . .
Well, the SV650 is arguably one of the most loved motorcycle models among Suzuki fans and even outside the brand. Supposed to be the most versatile bike, just the right amount of power, practicality, fun factor... all that. Suzuki practically had the monopoly on the naked standard game. That is, until they stopped production of the SV650 in 2008 and replaced it with that ugly piece of junk the Gladius. Similar design at heart, but lots of cut corners (to save money I guess), ugly fairings... didn't have the same soul. Then Yamaha and Honda came in to fill the vacuum with the CB500 and FZ-07 and at this point I'm sure Suzuki feels like they shot themselves in the foot taking the SV off the market. They've been missing a lot of revenue not offering an everyman's naked standard.
Now they're trying to reintroduce the SV again, but it may be too little too late for them. They've been off the market for a long time now, the FZ-07 is insanely popular and they've pissed off a lot of die hard SV fans. So that's the gist of it.
And I learn something new! Thanks! :thumb: :cool:
There are pros and cons to each frame construction.
Anybody with a welder can fix a steel frame..... but it will rust out eventually. Aluminum will last for damn near ever.
Yes and a aluminum bike left outside will look better and better as the time wears on it. In spite of their retarded black powdercoating on the later SV's.
And if it starts to look like crap, like you left it @ a construction site and it got slathered with concrete ... you can always polish it. Like my POS Ozone Bicycle, which after polishing, starts to look like its handmade Murrican bike from the early 90's sold @ bike shop not POS chinese Crap from 2009 sold @ REI.
Cool.
Buddha.
Being a former SV650 owner, I must say I am highly disappointed by the swap to the steel frame. No matter what way you slice it, aluminum is better. Sure it may be the same weight, but steel is more prone to cracking, rusting, etc.. The characteristics of aluminum are far better suited for the frame of...well...anything that needs to hold together.
I would not trust a steel-framed bike after it's been down - even just a drop on its side - after more than 2-3 years. I know that sounds like paranoia, but I've never seen an aluminum weld break before. I've seen plenty of steel welds break. I can understand a steel frame on a budget bike (like the GS), but for the SV? Unacceptable.
To me, the SV died in 2003 when they first went to fuel injection. Yes it's more controllable and efficient and all that stuff, but having ridden both, the first-generation dual Mikuni was far superior in both power delivery and overall smoothness. I've ridden several of the fuel injected models, two of which were professionally tuned with a P/C module...still not as good.
/soapbox
No problem with soapboxes, that is kinda why I made the thread. Ha.
If you were to remove the SV650 label from the bike and look at it objectively. What would you have to say about it, then?
Quote from: Iarn on April 17, 2016, 08:18:58 PM
No problem with soapboxes, that is kinda why I made the thread. Ha.
If you were to remove the SV650 label from the bike and look at it objectively. What would you have to say about it, then?
Huh, interesting question. Well, I'd say it's a remake of the Gladius. I think the fact that they're trying to market it as a "new SV650" is what's bothering me and other people. It's an insult to the name and what it
used to be.
If I could find this exact bike I would pay damn near anything for it:
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/GaryCorde/IMG_0186.jpg)
The blue "S" is somewhat rare, and one with the optional lower-fairing is super rare. The lower-fairing in general is rare. I had a silver one just like that. Sold it to a friend because I needed a car. Friend wrecked it within a week. Sigh...
I commute. My next bike will be fuel injected, and have a full fairing.
Whether it's going to be a Suzuki is up to Suzuki at this point... I'd not buy the naked new SV though, it's not reasonable for me without a fairing.
Quote from: Rallyfan on April 18, 2016, 12:21:46 AM
I commute. My next bike will be fuel injected, and have a full fairing.
Whether it's going to be a Suzuki is up to Suzuki at this point... I'd not buy the naked new SV though, it's not reasonable for me without a fairing.
GSX650F?
.
The bait and switch was in the fact that it was called an SV650F.
And I am a bicyclist too, there is no reason to want steel over aluminum in all but the hardest core velodrome bikes.
Where there is no suspension, steel gives a little and lessens those bone jarring bumps. They also can make the steel super super super thin wall so it can be lighter than aluminum. Cos you try to do that with aluminum even 3X as thick, it will crack when you get on it.
On a bike with suspension it makes no positive difference. The differences are all negative for steel.
The Gladius was heavier than the SV. So they really didn't try to even make it "the Japanese ducati" besides, there was a Japanese SV already. It was the SV.
Sadly, I think the SV was killed by people on forums - like this one and the SV forums. This is 2016, if the forums decide they don't like it, it will have a outsized impact.
To build a successful bike - GS or SV or anything - they need to listed to forumers. Not just this one, all of them. You cant buy that kind of customer feedback for millions of $$$$ ... that can keep them from fixing what aint broken while ignoring what was broken.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Kijona on April 18, 2016, 03:06:11 AM
Quote from: Rallyfan on April 18, 2016, 12:21:46 AM
I commute. My next bike will be fuel injected, and have a full fairing.
Whether it's going to be a Suzuki is up to Suzuki at this point... I'd not buy the naked new SV though, it's not reasonable for me without a fairing.
GSX650F?
Something like that, maybe. A CB750F would be nice but it doesn't exist.
.
Well, to be fair, I don't think anyone literally thinks the Gladius is an SV650, you can see that from people's reactions to it. What people mean when they say that it's a crappier SV is in the spiritual sense, especially in the US, where many people talk like this.
They took the SV650 off the market and in its place came the SFV650. It is the spiritual successor to the SV whether you like it or not. They are similar in a lot of ways.
Now, adding insult to injury (in a lot of people's minds) they've taken the spiritual successor to the SV650, the SFV650, and turn it into the SV650. They did it again, but in reverse!
If I may use nerd nomenclature; instead of using resurrect spell on the SV650 they used raised zombie instead and now it looks like an abomination to a lot of people. I think that's what The Buddha and others are upset about and that's what they mean by "bait and switch".
I do commend you on your wanting to ride the bike before taking a dump on it, though. I was reading on some other forums and MANY posters were saying, "Oh, the 2017 SV650 is 15 pounds more than the FZ-07. The FZ-07 is CLEARLY the superior bike based on these metrics alone!" It was really a sad read. Judging two similar bikes on weight alone. :nono:
Quote from: cWj on April 18, 2016, 10:03:05 AM
"Gladius (crappier redesigned SV650)"
(sigh)
The new SV650 is a redesigned Gladius.
That is not a bad thing, as actual reviews of the bike show it wasn't a bad bike - the SFV650 was just priced too high as an alternative in markets that no longer got the SV650. It suffered from questionable marketing aimed at the style-conscious and, in general, went a bit overboard being a Japanese take on the Monster (which the SV has always been).
The visual redesign of the SFV largely mimics what customers tended to remove from the bike. In particular, I feel the round headlight does a lot for it.
I ride bicycles and in the world the term "steel is real" is well-known. There are people that swear aluminum is better, others prefer they're alloys to be steel. They each have their advantages. Ride it or don't - but why judge without riding it?
There was no frame material "bait-and-switch". It has always stated right in the specs what it's made out of.
If the UK prices are an indicator, the '17 SV650 will undercut the competition in its segment and thereby regain the perceived value missing from the SFV (which should never have been a $8k bike).
If I can find a ride day around NY/NJ, I plan to try one. I don't really care to purchase new, but the '17 SV has some good things going for it.
I always wonder why people intentionally take an opposing side. This happens a lot on forums. There'll be a discussion, everyone will be in agreement, and then that one person will come in. This person will interject their opinion about everyone else's opinion, and then act like they are above it all. Is it because they need attention? Is it because they
enjoy feeling at odds with everyone else?
Nothing wrong with a devil's advocate. I'm sure we all get a little too far up our own butt's some times. I do agree it probably could've been handled with a little more tact. In the end, they did give another point of view. Nothing good about an echo chamber.
Quote from: Iarn on April 19, 2016, 04:20:41 AM
Nothing wrong with a devil's advocate. I'm sure we all get a little too far up our own butt's some times. I do agree it probably could've been handled with a little more tact. In the end, they did give another point of view. Nothing good about an echo chamber.
Tact is everything, especially when the method of communication is as ambiguous as text. That sounds a bit like an oxymoron, but think about the lack of inflection that can leave a lot of room for interpretation.
With Suzuki's crappy quality control issues - any one has a rusty GS here ??? any one ????
I wont t-rust them 1 bit .... heee heee ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Pfft. .. fz07 is just for the pansies who can't handle the 09! ;)
Quote from: The Buddha on April 19, 2016, 03:03:30 PM
With Suzuki's crappy quality control issues - any one has a rusty GS here ??? any one ????
I wont t-rust them 1 bit .... heee heee ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Rusty GS? I thought that was the standard from-factory coating? :icon_mrgreen:
Okay, back on topic. So, apart from the name SV650... nobody here would have any love from the bike separate from that? I think it looks awesome and the specs look nice. Of course I'm waiting for them out on that showroom floor so I can test ride one. Can't wait for that.
Yea Suzuki put rust on the GS standard @ no charge.
And Kawasaki did the same with their EX650 twin. Which IMHO makes a better bike all around than the SV, V twins aren't the best design, 2 cam shafts, 2 heads, 2 of everything and yea its narrow, but somehow the EX650 isn't that much wider. Yea yea secondary balance etc etc, but you can have a 90 degree crank in a parallel engine and still get that aspect.
Sorry, but Suzuki killed a great bike in the SV650, tried to sub this second rate POS, and killed the GS with just forgetting to make it, and killed a SV1000 but kept making the Vstrom 1000 which has most of the parts as the SV1K all in the same year.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Rallyfan on April 18, 2016, 05:15:44 PM
Quote from: Kijona on April 18, 2016, 03:06:11 AM
Quote from: Rallyfan on April 18, 2016, 12:21:46 AM
I commute. My next bike will be fuel injected, and have a full fairing.
Whether it's going to be a Suzuki is up to Suzuki at this point... I'd not buy the naked new SV though, it's not reasonable for me without a fairing.
GSX650F?
Something like that, maybe. A CB750F would be nice but it doesn't exist.
Well if you can stomach 4 carburetors, the Katana 750 would be "something like that". Bar none, the most comfortable stock seat in existence.
Otherwise, the GSX650 would be nice too. They're basically the same thing as a Katana, just modernized. I would love to own one.
Staying with new bikes. As a GS500 replacement, the 2015 on Yamaha MT03 naked is a little ripper. Very tempted, I am.
It's too small for me. I want a full size fuel injected bike with decent torque and good fuel economy but also light and nimble. Oh, and cheap to insure. And reliable. And cool looking. And I want to drive it to free all you can eat sushi buffets and to the corner store so I can buy the winning lottery ticket.
Quote from: Rallyfan on April 30, 2016, 01:43:32 PM
It's too small for me. I want a full size fuel injected bike with decent torque and good fuel economy but also light and nimble. Oh, and cheap to insure. And reliable. And cool looking. And I want to drive it to free all you can eat sushi buffets and to the corner store so I can buy the winning lottery ticket.
Wait a minute... You had me going there for a moment. :icon_lol:
Changing my life, changing the way I treat others and how I maintain my bike and what I do day to day -- those things are difficult.
Drinking is easy.
And optimism is free!
Monster 696 or 821?
What seems like a side note at this point...pricing has been released on the new SV.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2017-suzuki-sv650-and-sv650-abs-pricing-and-availability-announced (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2017-suzuki-sv650-and-sv650-abs-pricing-and-availability-announced)
I'm planning to go into my dealershit and ask them for the SV650R model. R for Rust.
I'll tell them I need it to match my FZ6R model.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: rscottlow on May 10, 2016, 10:34:18 AM
What seems like a side note at this point...pricing has been released on the new SV.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2017-suzuki-sv650-and-sv650-abs-pricing-and-availability-announced (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2017-suzuki-sv650-and-sv650-abs-pricing-and-availability-announced)
I think I'd pay a bit more and get a Honda 650 instead honestly.
Quote from: Rallyfan on May 12, 2016, 02:27:19 PM
Quote from: rscottlow on May 10, 2016, 10:34:18 AM
What seems like a side note at this point...pricing has been released on the new SV.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2017-suzuki-sv650-and-sv650-abs-pricing-and-availability-announced (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2017-suzuki-sv650-and-sv650-abs-pricing-and-availability-announced)
I think I'd pay a bit more and get a Honda 650 instead honestly.
I'd take the Ninja 650. Parallel twin and the same crappy steel frame, and its actually so narrow compared to the sv.
Cool.
Buddha.
The "for just a bit more" thing is dangerous because for a little more than that there's used VFR800s and I like those bikes... Of course, if I keep that "logic" up and keep adding "a bit more" I've now gone from a GS500F to a Bimota.
I really wish my GS had fuel injection...
$6,999 USD for non-ABS and $7,500 USD for ABS? That is disappointing. They are never going to sell many SV's at that price. Might sell some from the old clout the model used to have, but not much beyond that. A real shame, too. Suzuki has such old tech on all their rides, they can't go around charging the same price as Kawasaki Ninja's and whatnot. :nono: Who is running that company these days? Seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot too often.
The new SV may be the absolute best $6K bike in the world, and the only $6K bike that sells for $7K...
I haven't owned an SV650, only drooled extensively.. but the new one just doesn't look like an SV650 to me. Without that signature frame it just looks kind of... generic.
Laverda prototyped a bike using the Suzuki twin. That would have been a great looking frame. I don't think it materialized though.
Quote from: Rallyfan on May 14, 2016, 12:42:19 PM
The "for just a bit more" thing is dangerous because for a little more than that there's used VFR800s and I like those bikes... Of course, if I keep that "logic" up and keep adding "a bit more" I've now gone from a GS500F to a Bimota.
I really wish my GS had fuel injection...
Oh gawd the VFR 800 is another disaster, that brilliant frame that ends at the rear motor mount and the swingarm that only goes through the engine, yea retarded. Don't ever run over anything big, like a pothole. You may get an oil leak. The VTR1000 which originated that design was far worse though, the extra width and heft of the VFR motor helps it from cracking the cases that easy. VTR1000 it used to happen. I have heard of a few cases back in the late 90's.
I really wish the GS had belt drive and 15" rear wheel. Cheaper commuter and cleaner looks.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Tekime on May 14, 2016, 09:08:41 PM
I haven't owned an SV650, only drooled extensively.. but the new one just doesn't look like an SV650 to me. Without that signature frame it just looks kind of... generic.
No once it rusts it looks great. Classic Suzuki finish. People will know you came from the GS and upgraded to the SV. :thumb:
Cool.
Buddha.
BTW The svportal and svrider forum as well as this one are the world biggest congregants of potential SV customers.
They SV sites trashed the Gheydius before its launch in 08-09.
That was what IMHO resulted in the market failure of the Gheydius.
The Gheydius is the new SV ... yea we all know, sorry.
If Suzuki didn't lurk on these sites and didn't consider what they were saying before building the "new and improved SV" - they are stupid and they could care less about their customers - and that is before the sale.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on May 16, 2016, 07:09:08 AM
Quote from: Tekime on May 14, 2016, 09:08:41 PM
I haven't owned an SV650, only drooled extensively.. but the new one just doesn't look like an SV650 to me. Without that signature frame it just looks kind of... generic.
No once it rusts it looks great. Classic Suzuki finish. People will know you came from the GS and upgraded to the SV. :thumb:
Cool.
Buddha.
The greatest part is you can harvest the rust each season, comes in handy for lots of stuff like making your own toothpaste or a good steak seasoning.
IMHO, Kawasaki already beat them to the punch, by many eons in fact.
In 87 kawi introduces the EX500. Fine we hate it, but the rest of the world fell Head over heels for it.
Then they drop the EX650, and the versys in 03 or 04. Fine Suzuki has the SV650 and the V-Strom and its holding it together well, but then in 08 they drop the SV 1k, and they make the 1000 cc V-strom which is generally a low production bike anyway, and the 650 is neglected in favor of the Gheydius ... and they forget to make the GS500.
Sorry, those bean counters are counting beans with their head so far up their A$$$e$ I think they count their own eyeballs as beans.
The replacement for the SV should have kept the SV's frame, but swapped the Vtwin for 2 cyls of the busa. Exactly the way they did the GS. And they should have kept the GS in production. Or introduced the 01-02 naked as an option for a lower $$$.
I dunno, I think I ened to get a ER650 next and see.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on May 17, 2016, 07:19:57 AM
IMHO, Kawasaki already beat them to the punch, by many eons in fact.
In 87 kawi introduces the EX500. Fine we hate it, but the rest of the world fell Head over heels for it.
Then they drop the EX650, and the versys in 03 or 04. Fine Suzuki has the SV650 and the V-Strom and its holding it together well, but then in 08 they drop the SV 1k, and they make the 1000 cc V-strom which is generally a low production bike anyway, and the 650 is neglected in favor of the Gheydius ... and they forget to make the GS500.
Sorry, those bean counters are counting beans with their head so far up their A$$$e$ I think they count their own eyeballs as beans.
The replacement for the SV should have kept the SV's frame, but swapped the Vtwin for 2 cyls of the busa. Exactly the way they did the GS. And they should have kept the GS in production. Or introduced the 01-02 naked as an option for a lower $$$.
I dunno, I think I ened to get a ER650 next and see.
Cool.
Buddha.
I'll have to [slightly] disagree Buddha, the 90° V-Twin is what made the SV such an amazing bike (apart from the gen1 frame and those Mikuni carbs).
Quote from: Kijona on May 25, 2016, 01:37:35 PM
I'll have to [slightly] disagree Buddha, the 90° V-Twin is what made the SV such an amazing bike (apart from the gen1 frame and those Mikuni carbs).
Parallel twins are far cheaper to make and a much sounder design. Just to make that primary balance point moot, they could have put a 90 degree crank in it. Like we do with those xs650's all the time.
Cutting cost from the previous SV, they should have gone to a parallel twin, and not a steel frame.
The bike would have to have been called a GS650 then. Or a GR650 LOL.
Cool.
Buddha.