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Main Area => General GS500 Discussion => Topic started by: smokestack on May 15, 2016, 01:20:43 AM

Title: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 15, 2016, 01:20:43 AM
Just had the carbs rebuilt and petcock replaced on my 2006 GS. Was able to ride it around for a couple of hours before it stalled suddenly going about 20mph. The starter motor sounds fine but it won't restart. After letting it sit for about 15 minutes, it starts right up. Ride it for another hour and same thing, very sudden stall and it won't start back up. This time I let it sit for about an hour and it starts perfectly, but only runs for about 15 minutes before it stalls again.

It doesn't sputter or lose power leading up to the stall, it just dies very suddenly. It won't restart with the petcock in any position. I opened the gas cap each time and didn't hear any air rushing in. The kickstand doesn't seat firmly when it's up and thought maybe the switch was causing the stall, but I'm able to crank the motor immediately after and it doesn't start.

I only noticed after the third time that the cable leading into one of the spark plugs was resting on the engine but none of the wiring was exposed, just a little melted "dent" in the encasement. It was also idling pretty high for those first couple of hours, around 3-4k. It never did this before the servicing so I assume something may have been botched.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Big Rich on May 15, 2016, 01:50:14 AM
I'd still be looking at fuel starvation. Next time it stalls out, check your float level immediately using the clear tube method. Could be the carb vent hose kinked / clogged.

Edit: you don't have an aftermarket fuel filter, do you?
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 15, 2016, 02:51:04 AM
I'll try that. I'm just remembering that they had left the petcock on reserve and I was riding like that for the first couple of hours before switching it to on, and the stalling must have happened within an hour afterward. I'll see if I get the stalling on reserve tomorrow.

I bought it used but I never noticed a fuel filter and never installed one. I assume it would be near the petcock?

How long would it normally take for the bowls to refill if they were empty? Seems like I'm getting good starts 10-15 minutes after stalling, but it could be sooner.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: lucas on May 15, 2016, 03:53:11 PM
Coincidentally, another member is having similar issues to yours.  I'd give the same advice to you:

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=70531.0
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Big Rich on May 15, 2016, 04:16:34 PM
I thought I replied to this, but my phone doesn't agree with me.....

A fuel filter could be between the fuel tank and frame petcock, or the frame petcock and the carbs. And if your carbs are vacuum locked, it would be obvious if you check them with a clear tube.... unless air rushes in thru the drain and unlocks the vacuum? Just guessing here....
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 15, 2016, 05:33:14 PM
So it seems to only be getting about 2 or 3 miles before stalling now (maybe 10-15 minutes through a residential area).

Running it on reserve doesn't make a difference.

I was able to drain several ounces out of each of the carb bowls. I didn't try emptying them, just stopped after a few cap fulls. I found what I think is the carb vent hose (coming off of the carburetor and through a small air box), no kinks and unobstructed. I didn't hear air rushing in when I unscrewed the drain, and still not starting after I do that.

I was able to get about 40 miles out of it before it started stalling like this.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 15, 2016, 05:36:06 PM
Might also be worth mentioning that the fuel lines running off the petcock were replaced and the air filter was replaced when it was serviced last week.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: lucas on May 15, 2016, 07:25:52 PM
If you are trying to verify the amount of fuel in your float bowls is correct you can use a clear piece of tubing.  Attach one end to the drain nipple and hold the other end up above the float bowl.  Where the gas rises to in the tube is the height of the fuel in the bowl.

(http://sirius.ucsc.edu/demoweb/images/fl_pr_th/statics/tubes_profile_small.jpg)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af147/Snake2715/IMAG1462_zpse4a91899.jpg)
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 15, 2016, 10:02:36 PM
Lucas, thank you. Before I saw your post I decided to check the oil for the first time since I got the bike back and it's not reading on the stick and I can't see any oil pooled at the bottom. Christ...
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Janx101 on May 16, 2016, 04:56:45 AM
Check the oil with the bike held level. .. ie not on sidestand!
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 16, 2016, 04:46:39 PM
Yep, you spared me another stupid mistake :)

The last couple of stalls happened immediately after upshifting and engaging the gear. I was going about 15mph last time and tried dumping the clutch into second to try bump starting it and just skidded the rear tire. Is that normal?

I really appreciate all of the help on this thread... this bike has been a thorn in my side, and worse that I haven't had the space to work on it myself. Just out of the shop after a month waiting on parts and now this. Oy

Edit: I'll try the clear tube test today but the bowls definitely aren't empty after stalling, so if it is a fuel starvation issue, it seems to be happening somewhere downstream.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: lucas on May 17, 2016, 09:35:01 AM
You could try bump starting in second.

I don't think there is anywhere further downstream than the bowls, from there the fuel feeds through the jets.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Big Rich on May 17, 2016, 01:16:21 PM
Smoke - try pulling spark plugs when it stalls. White & dry = fuel problem. Black & wet = spark problem.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 17, 2016, 05:30:23 PM
I put close to a quart of oil in it to top it off, sprayed some penetrating oil into the cylinders in case anything was gunked up, and replaced the spark plugs. The ones I pulled off had been in for a long time but both are sooty.

I think it's always run pretty lean. The motor oil and exhaust both smell like gasoline. I'm worried that it's overheating and damaged something else since it was running fine for about 40 miles before this problem started, and stalls more quickly each time I've ridden it. I've read the ignition coils could be likely.

Is there a simple way to adjust the mixture on the carbs without taking it apart?

Rich, I'll try pulling the plugs next time it stalls.

Edit: lean, not rich
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Big Rich on May 17, 2016, 07:14:51 PM
Well, the good news is that if was running rich then there's less of a chance of overheating.

Ignition coils could be the problem..... but usually OEM coils last for decades before failing. Assuming nobody has abused them of course.

You have a weird set of symptoms Smoke.... usually a rich smelling exhaust / oil means there's too much unburnt fuel blowing out or washing down your cylinder walls. But stalling after riding for a little while can be caused from running lean. I'm wondering if your float height is set high / float needles are leaking, but you also have a vacuum lock in your carbs causing the stalling.

Wait for somebody else to chime in though - I've got a touch of the flu and not thinking 100%....
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 17, 2016, 08:47:09 PM
Thanks Rich, hope you're feeling better.

I got it stalled again and immediately pulled the plugs and didn't see a spark. Waited a couple hours with the plug in and it still wouldn't start, and killed the battery after a 20 cranks or so, so the battery must have been pretty low. Got it on the battery tender and pulled one plug pulled and did see an orange spark (that means a weak spark?), and it started.

So.... certainly seems like an ignition problem now. I had just read in a few places the the coils are notorious for getting hot and malfunctioning on these bikes. If it is running lean and hot like it seems to be, I guess that could exacerbate the issue.

I'm guessing it definitely couldn't crank if it didn't have enough power to create a spark.



Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Janx101 on May 17, 2016, 10:15:46 PM
A strong spark disappears before the crank power goes. ..I think?
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 17, 2016, 11:22:55 PM
orly...
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: lucas on May 18, 2016, 01:18:29 AM
Yeah a bad coil would explain the bad exhaust smell
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 18, 2016, 09:06:31 PM
Lucas, you mean that the gasoline smell in the exhaust may be caused by no spark/no ignition?

Charged the battery overnight and no difference. I'm feeling around where the coils should be after it stalls and they're cool to the touch. Maybe the battery's junk.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Nighthawk016 on May 22, 2016, 12:02:21 PM
okay, so I'm very surprised no one mentioned this. There are 2 petcocks on the GS500. One directly on the bottom of the tank and the one that says on and reserve. The one on the bottom of the tank can not be fully turned to open; if it is it will starve the bike of fuel causing intermittent issues like you're mentioning. IIRC the petcock needs to be exactly 90 degrees from closed, any farther and you aren't getting full flow.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 23, 2016, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: Nighthawk016 on May 22, 2016, 12:02:21 PM
The one on the bottom of the tank can not be fully turned to open; if it is it will starve the bike of fuel causing intermittent issues like you're mentioning. IIRC the petcock needs to be exactly 90 degrees from closed, any farther and you aren't getting full flow.

Not sure what you mean. You're saying having the tank petcock turned fully open will cause fuel starvation issues? I've been turning it as close to 90 degrees from off as I can.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: jdoorn14 on May 23, 2016, 05:59:49 PM
It's worded funny, but I think Nighthawk is saying it's possible for the petcock to be not quite at 90 degrees from off, which could cause fuel starvation.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Janx101 on May 23, 2016, 09:10:21 PM
You can turn it past 90degrees and start to close it again!
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: jdoorn14 on May 24, 2016, 08:28:43 AM
This is true. When you consider that 90 and 270 degrees from off are full on, and 0 and 180 degrees are full off, anything between is partially off (or partially on if you're an optimist).
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: jeZZa on May 24, 2016, 02:00:08 PM
i had similar problems with my gs, replaced the coils, leads, caps, plugs, carbs and ignition module and pickups and still had the same fault.... eventuly traced it to a iffy wire (it had broken off and would randomly lose contact) in the ignition plug and a very dodgy earth..... check your wiring... i wish id started there
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Nighthawk016 on May 25, 2016, 03:01:22 PM
Quote from: Janx101 on May 23, 2016, 09:10:21 PM
You can turn it past 90degrees and start to close it again!

This exactly.
(http://static.flickr.com/3279/5870279088_7a4e0e75e8.jpg)

If you turn this petcock passed ON it will cause fuel starvation issues.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 25, 2016, 09:49:37 PM
Found some metal flakes in the oil   :icon_neutral:

https://imgur.com/ahYL1e6 (the magnet head is 8-10mm wide)
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: Big Rich on May 25, 2016, 11:23:18 PM
I wouldn't worry about those tiny little flakes......

Are they good? Of course not. But that's not enough that I'd be worried at all.
Title: Re: Sudden stalls after servicing
Post by: smokestack on May 25, 2016, 11:47:36 PM
Nice to hear. Anything to do about it? Quick history: bought at about 24k miles, I've only been able to put about 750 miles on it since I bought it 1.5 years ago. Haven't changed the oil until now (my fault). Was probably running about 100 miles about a quart low. Unknown previous owner. Had carbs rebuilt by a mechanic about 50 miles ago and it's been running very lean and hot, likely burnt out my signal generator coil.

The plan is to put some cheap Castrol motorcycle oil in for 50-100 miles then put in full synthetic. I read that the quick, back-to-back oil change is a good way to flush. Will cut open the oil filter to inspect. Also plan on taping off half the airbox intake to see if it helps richen the mixture then maybe try rejetting. The mechanic probably put in the stock jet size (I should call her though..). Going to try spraying starter fluid on the carb->engine intakes after it's put back together to check for leaks.