This noise occurs when I roll the bike around (not running) in neutral or w/the clutch in.
Clutch and chain are adjusted as per shop manual.
Can anyone identify this and tell me if its something I need to be worried bout? Thx.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzdfQQ095h8&feature=youtu.be
Just confirming, chain was adjusted while on side stand or on center stand?
Also, have you double-checked that the chain alignment is true? Almost sounds to me like the chain is catching the outside of one of the sprockets.
Quote from: jdoorn14 on May 26, 2016, 05:44:16 AM
Just confirming, chain was adjusted while on side stand or on center stand?
Also, have you double-checked that the chain alignment is true? Almost sounds to me like the chain is catching the outside of one of the sprockets.
Seconded. Check the chain alignment and triple check the play.
There's no center stand, so I did first on side stand, then had somebody sit on bike and rechecked. Shop manual recommends 20-30mm of movement. Seems tight.
I'll check the alignment.
Thanks!
Cool. You also answered my next question about whether you might have an aftermarket slip on with no center stand stop. Without the stop, the center stand could rub against the chain. BUT, since there's no center stand, that can't be it.
Would a Katana rear wheel/tire make a difference? I thought it was a direct swap (w/some modification of the caliper bar.)
Your asking a question but in fairness not giving the necessary facts.....no centre stand,Katana wheel/tyre.........anything else?
Sorry! Bike is stock, except: katana rear wheel/tire, katana rear shock, no center stand. Chain slack is around 30mm of play. Clutch lever is loose, about 2 centimeters of play. Wheel seems to be centered in frame, w/equal amount of space between frame arms and tire. Bike was bought used w/about 12,000 miles. Sound seems to be emanating from the clutch area.
I haven't taken the clutch cover off, which I assume is the best way to determine a mis-aligned chain.
Thoughts?
Quote from: 1034am on May 26, 2016, 05:23:49 PMI haven't taken the clutch cover off, which I assume is the best way to determine a mis-aligned chain.
Thoughts?
If your bike had zero graduation markers on both sides of the axle you can align the chain this way...remove the chain guard, looking down from the top to somewhere around the forward edge of the rear sprocket, look down between two link plates on a top link to a link on the bottom, now add the forward most tooth of the rear sprocket into that picture, the tooth should be in the middle of the link plates on top and the link plates on the bottom link, if not adjust one side or the other and get the forward tooth in the middle of the top and bottom links, regardless of what the graduations next to the axle say.
(Imagine ramming a piece of drill rod thru a link on top to a link on the bottom and then the forward tooth on the front of the sprocket touches the drill rod dead center)
It's kind of a gun sight method, once I get everything aligned, I then move the adjusters back the same amount with a wrench (i.e. 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 of a turn) and never look at the graduations again when I adjust the chain for wear.
Funny. When i bought my bike the same noise occurred right after i pulled in my backyard. Was afraid it was a major issue but i adjusted the chain on the center stand and the noise went away. I plan on buying a chain/sprocket kit anyway when i save up some cash!
Quote from: emanuel_v19 on May 27, 2016, 10:32:40 AM
Funny. When i bought my bike the same noise occurred right after i pulled in my backyard. Was afraid it was a major issue but i adjusted the chain on the center stand and the noise went away. I plan on buying a chain/sprocket kit anyway when i save up some cash!
According to the owner's manual, the proper chain adjustment will take place with the bike on the side stand. Otherwise you will likely have a chain that is too tight when you sit on it.
Quote from: jdoorn14 on May 27, 2016, 03:29:47 PMAccording to the owner's manual, the proper chain adjustment will take place with the bike on the side stand. Otherwise you will likely have a chain that is too tight when you sit on it.
Pure BS, regardless of what the owners manual says. You can do a "proper" chain adjust on the center stand, I prefer it over the side stand because it takes out all of the variables that using the side stand may impose by compressing or not compressing the suspension. Regardless of what method you use, you need to double check the tension with the suspension compressed to the mid point in it's travel, the tightest point. I clean and lube my chains on the center stand, then having to put my bike on the side stand to adjust the chain is beyond silly, as long as you understand what you are trying to achieve...adjusting the slack in a chain. I check all of my bikes with chains on the side stand once against the center stand/lift measurement, in 45 years and 22 bikes with chains, the difference is almost non existent if any, so I use the center stand. I check my oil on the center stand also, some here can't understand why I haven't blown up every engine and ruined every chain I touch with such blatantly "improper" maintenance techniques :cheers:
I tend to believe what I read in the owner's manual. But each to their own.
Quote from: jdoorn14 on May 27, 2016, 04:35:53 PM
I tend to believe what I read in the owner's manual. But each to their own.
Measure your chain slack on the side stand, then measure it on the center stand, report back here and tell me what the difference is, if you have a difference you may may want to look into why the weight of the bike on the side stand is able to compress the rear suspension, because that is the only way you will get a different measurement from side to center stand :kiss3:
Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated.(I learned the bike looks way cooler w/o a chain guard!)
The measure (on side stand) is off by 1/16". It's really close.
Is it possibly due to chain stretch? Didn't check for that. I have a new chain, but was intimidated by trying to undo a link pin.
I'll try and readjust the alignment and see if that fixes it. (Thanks for the detailed description Stevo on the sight lines.) and get out my center stand jic. (Its one of those shop types)
Oh yeah, manual says 20-30 mm of chain play. Better recommendations???
From center stand (no weight on rear swingarm) to side stand (weight on swingarm) there is in fact an additional stretch on the chain due to the fact that the swingarm rotates a bit toward the rear when you set it down from the center stand. It may only cause chain slack to go out of spec if you tighten to the minimum play while on center stand, but there is a difference. Simple geometry and physics support this. Believe it or not, your choice.
1034am - before you commit to riding without a chain guard, please read the sticky thread regarding this. The chain guard is a safety feature, regardless how much cleaner the bike looks without it.
Quote from: jdoorn14 on May 28, 2016, 09:17:11 AMIt may only cause chain slack to go out of spec if you tighten to the minimum play while on center stand, but there is a difference. Simple geometry and physics support this. Believe it or not, your choice.
I thoroughly understand this, have for decades, my point is...if you truly understand what you are trying to accomplish, you can use the center stand to adjust your chain.
EDIT: This>>
"if you tighten to the minimum play while on center stand" Ohhhh..so you do get it, maybe you could not use the bottom end of the spec? So you understand what your up against but can't compensate in the least to make any process other than what the owners manual says work?
Don't take anything I say personally, the discussion of of side stand vs center stand has been going on for a long time, many years before you were born. The above statements have always been my response and always will be my response whenever somebody claims...
"you have to use the side stand to adjust your chain" All I do is go to the loose side and check it mid travel, once my WR250R is gone I probably will never own a bike with a chain again, I have already gone 100% EFI.
So whats the preferred chain slack amount??
Quote from: 1034am on May 28, 2016, 12:18:20 PM
So whats the preferred chain slack amount??
I would stay away from 20mm even using the side stand, shooting for the middle is always safe, I had a KZ1000 that shifted better with the chain on the mid to loose side, so I always go with looser than tighter, always check it mid travel with whatever setting you decide on :thumb:
I can and indeed do, adjust chains both on the side stand and the centre stand and I do it by eye. I simply do what is the most convenient at the time
Guess what?.....no one has ever died, the sun still rises every morning, the oceans have never dried up and perhaps more importantly my chains and sprockets have never suddenly worn out the next day. In fact I have never noticed any significant difference arising as a result of not following convention. Dig a bit deeper and you may even find the chain manufactures advices goes against bike manufacturers advice........so how critical does it have to be?
Some things have to be done by the book, but I don't and never have subscribed to the belief that chain adjustment is one of them. And if we are going to start quoting geometry as an excuse we need to remember the swing arm and sprocket don't pivot/rotate about the same axis and therefore must consider the long terms effects the weight of the rider has on suspension positioning and consequently chain tension while the bike is in use.
And while it may be technically "fine" to adjust by eye on whichever stand you choose, to call the owner's manual recommended method BS doesn't necessarily help new bike owners gain any confidence. I'm just saying the people at Suzuki might just know a thing or two about he!ping to teach basic maintenance to a new bike owner. Hopefully by the time we've been on this earth and riding as long as some of the purported elder statesmen here, we can all do it by eye when and however we choose and know that it will be just fine.
I think that any Noobs reading this thread will be able to come to their own conclusions about chain adjusting, because all aspects where certainly covered...many more than once :wink:
I don't recall using the term BS :dunno_black:
:D :D :D
Suzuki quote a method in their handbook because................ they have to quote a method.
The same book says when the chain is worn NEVER use a jointed one, how many people in here stick to that rule?
Dunno about you but I weigh about 14st, what would happen to chain tension if someone who weighs 20st sat on the bike?
Tell you what........ you set your chain by the book, then swap it onto the other stand then come back and tell us how much difference in free-play there is and if its still within tolerance :thumb:
Quote from: sledge on May 28, 2016, 01:12:19 PM
I don't recall using the term BS :dunno_black:
That would be me, I am the Bad Monkey :cry:
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on May 28, 2016, 01:02:45 PM
I think that any Noobs reading this thread will be able to come to their own conclusions about chain adjusting, because all aspects where certainly covered...many more than once :wink:
Dead right Steve,
I sometimes wonder how us old timers ever managed before chain alignment tools/lasers etc existed, and God only knows how we coped with bikes that didn't come with manuals or alignment marks on the swingers
I blame the internet, it takes all the fun and adventure out of bike maintenance, but in saying that, it does give plenty of other opportunitys to amuse!!
:D :D :D
I'm beginning to remember why I stopped participating in this forum.
And for the record, I was speaking from experience that it does make a difference. But wtf do I know. I'm not an old timer.
So what's the noise? Sounds to me like the clicking noise you get coasting down at low speeds in gear with a well worn front sprocket, the clicking of the chain releasing from the hooked sprocket teeth. :dunno_black:
Quote from: jdoorn14 on May 28, 2016, 05:44:17 PM
I'm beginning to remember why I stopped participating in this forum.
And for the record, I was speaking from experience that it does make a difference. But wtf do I know. I'm not an old timer.
Have a breath bro! ;) .. the old timers also suffer from a trichotomous condition. .. some things must be done by the book 'this way' , by the book 'that way' and finally 'their way' because its become a habit and easier from their perspective. .....
End of the day it doesn't matter if Isambard Kingdom Brunel himself adjusts the chain using Stephensons favorite ring spanner! .. so long as the chain tension is within specified limits and stays put then it's all Good! :thumb:
Quote from: gsJack on May 28, 2016, 07:38:31 PM
So what's the noise? Sounds to me like the clicking noise you get coasting down at low speeds in gear with a well worn front sprocket, the clicking of the chain releasing from the hooked sprocket teeth. :dunno_black:
My thoughts also :confused:
Macka
Chain click sound. . But so loud? ...
As a random thought. . Can it be a false neutral?
Quote from: Janx101 on May 28, 2016, 10:28:17 PMHave a breath bro! ;) .. the old timers also suffer from a trichotomous condition. .. some things must be done by the book 'this way' , by the book 'that way' and finally 'their way' because its become a habit and easier from their perspective. .....
End of the day it doesn't matter if Isambard Kingdom Brunel himself adjusts the chain using Stephensons favorite ring spanner! .. so long as the chain tension is within specified limits and stays put then it's all Good! :thumb:
HEY YOU KIDS GET OFF OF MY LAWN!!!(http://i66.tinypic.com/10fx1tf.jpg)
I'm pretty sure side stand is in the manual because
all bikes have one, and it has
absolutely zero to do with the weight of the bike compressing the suspension. My WR250R with 10.6 inches of travel rests on the kick stand with the suspension fully extended with it's own weight.
Everybody run out and see if your GS sits on the kick stand with the rear suspension compressed to ANY degree, report back here with your findings, I sold mine 6 years ago so I can't
The noise does sound like a well worn CSS as mentioned before.
How about this....
Side Stand: 20-30 mm
Center Stand: 23-30 mmYay, lets go out for a ride! :cheers:
Now....Where did I park my bike??
;) ... your bike? ... it's over there next to that tree.... no not that one. . That! One! ... nooo to the left! .. dang forest is getting in the way!
Thanks for all the advice (& spirited debate!)
I adjusted so measure is equal distance (rear axle from swing arm joint) and sound got much better. If it is a worn front sprocket, how do I diagnose?
Take off the sprocket cover and :icon_eek:
Quote from: 1034am on May 29, 2016, 02:56:29 PM
Thanks for all the advice (& spirited debate!)
I adjusted so measure is equal distance (rear axle from swing arm joint) and sound got much better. If it is a worn front sprocket, how do I diagnose?
Worn sprockets are pretty easy to diagnose just by looking at them. The sprocket teeth will start looking hooked as they wear. For the front sprocket there's really no way to check without removing the clutch cover, so you're not getting out of removing that cover.
To the old timers: was my response correct this time?
Quote from: sledge on May 28, 2016, 01:20:59 PM
I blame the internet, it takes all the fun and adventure out of bike maintenance, but in saying that, it does give plenty of other opportunitys to amuse!!
The adventure is wading through the sea of questionable information and "expert" conjecture that is the MC community at large. Don't tell me that's not thrilling.
Quote from: jdoorn14 on May 29, 2016, 03:10:41 PMTo the old timers: was my response correct this time?
I'm not really a Dik, it all started when somebody here insisted that checking my oil on the center stand was "wrong", and it blew up from there :cheers:
Hang on now. We were talking about checking the oil? :o By all means, use the center stand. :D
Ha! You guys....
The front gear looks a little worn, so I'm replacing both front/rear & chain.
Any shortcuts to getting the old chain off?
Quote from: 1034am on May 30, 2016, 03:43:14 PM
Ha! You guys....
The front gear looks a little worn, so I'm replacing both front/rear & chain.
Any shortcuts to getting the old chain off?
Don't forget what it says in the handbook :thumb:
When you replace the chain
ALWAYS use an endless one.
NEVER use a jointed one.
:D :D :D
Quote from: 1034am on May 30, 2016, 03:43:14 PM
Ha! You guys....
The front gear looks a little worn, so I'm replacing both front/rear & chain.
Any shortcuts to getting the old chain off?
You can get a chain breaker, something like this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/121955728343?lpid=107&chn=ps
Quote from: 1034am on May 30, 2016, 03:43:14 PM
Ha! You guys....
The front gear looks a little worn, so I'm replacing both front/rear & chain.
Any shortcuts to getting the old chain off?
Angle grinder with a 1mm blade.
Keeping my bike in a non electric garage the last 20 years I just just cut old chain off with a hacksaw, quick and easy with a good blade.
When I replaced a chain I ALWAYS used one with a clip type master link. I NEVER used an endless one.
Hacksaw it is.
Thx again. Could not have gotten this bike road-ready without all of your helps.
Much appreciated.
Quote from: sledge on May 30, 2016, 11:06:34 PM
Don't forget what it says in the handbook :thumb:
When you replace the chain ALWAYS use an endless one. NEVER use a jointed one.
Let's think about this...how does one make a chain endless? :icon_confused: Bet they didn't grow it like that or pull it out of a magic hat. The only difference in my mind is when/where/how it was riveted.
But we should all do what the old-timers tell us. So, since sledge forgot to use sarcasm tags, I'm taking him literally that we should all use endless chains like the owner's manual states. :thumb: :icon_lol:
I tend to believe what I read in the owner's manual.
Good for you Sonny, so do I (in the main) but it looks like yet another `old timer` has stuck his oar in and questioned the Holy Book of Suzuki!!
Given you seem to be the one insisting you have to do EVERYTHING by the book the way Suzuki wrote it and then taking umbrage when others suggest its not always necessary do you have any condemnation for those (some even older than me!) who deify the all knowing Suzuki engineers and say joint the chain with a clip rather than something a bit more permanent? :D :D :D
BTW....The term `endless`.... you have to use a bit of imagination here (difficult for some I know :wink:) and realise the book has been translated from raw Japanese, consequently some terms may be a bit ambiguous and have maybe lost something in translation however I think it safe to assume that the term is intended to describe something that's permanently jointed ie: without ends, don't you? or are you just going to carry on playing dumb?
As regards chain clip joints my take is simple, if you DONT have one it cant brake or fall out on a rainy Sunday night 300 miles from home leading to a lot of inconvenience and a lot of cost, want to ask me how I know? or can you work it out for yourself?
Of course you could always take the `it wont ever happen to me approach` but that's you call :thumb:
THATS all experience (gained the hard way) for you and as an old timer I am happy to pass it on. :thumb:
Now....will someone please tell me where the sarcasm tags are??
Quote from: sledge on May 31, 2016, 09:17:23 AM
I tend to believe what I read in the owner's manual.
Good for you Sonny, so do I (in the main) but it looks like yet another `old timer` has stuck his oar in and questioned the Holy Book of Suzuki!!
Given you seem to be the one insisting you have to do EVERYTHING by the book the way Suzuki wrote it and then taking umbrage when others suggest its not always necessary do you have any condemnation for those (some even older than me!) who deify the all knowing Suzuki engineers and say joint the chain with a clip rather than something a bit more permanent? :D :D :D
BTW....The term `endless`.... you have to use a bit of imagination here (difficult for some I know :wink:) and realise the book has been translated from raw Japanese, consequently some terms may be a bit ambiguous and have maybe lost something in translation however I think it safe to assume that the term is intended to describe something that's permanently jointed ie: without ends, don't you? or are you just going to carry on playing dumb?
As regards chain clip joints my take is simple, if you DONT have one it cant brake or fall out on a rainy Sunday night 300 miles from home leading to a lot of inconvenience and a lot of cost, want to ask me how I know? or can you work it out for yourself?
Of course you could always take the `it wont ever happen to me approach` but that's you call :thumb:
THATS all experience (gained the hard way) for you and as an old timer I am happy to pass it on. :thumb:
Now....will someone please tell me where the sarcasm tags are??
****RETRACTED****
Nevermind. I'm done with this conversation.
I skipped the "How to tighten your chain" part of the thread, so I may have missed it, but.....
It sounds like super worn out sprockets or a too tight chain to me.