Hey guys.
Rode her with too much oil, tried to do a wheelie (last time I ever attempt that) and she stalled and died. She could barely do 40 KPH at 2nd gear (I felt it's stressing her) and took her home slowly.
Changed the oil and filter (now she has the correcr ammount) and cleaned the spark plugs with carb cleaner. She ran great for like 20 minutes and then stalled and died, she started but couldn't stay idle, rode her to a friend's with constant throttle, slowly. He suggested increasing idle speed, and with about 1400 RPM she started and had no trouble maintaining idle speed.
Took her home, she had trouble accelerating! I go full throttle at 4th gear and it took forever for the RPM's and speed tp slowly increase. I also swear that I heard a small ticking noise once in a while when she was idle.
Given all these circumstances - am I dealing with bad plugs? I've read that poor acceleration, a small ticking noise and trouble maintaining idle speed are signs of bad spark plugs...could this be it? I can't afford to take her to a shop right now and I want to fix this ASAP.
By the way - she rode great before I added the exta oil. Even then, rode her for more than 100 KM without trouble. It's the wheelie attempt that got to her.
**UPDATE**
Took her out on a ride, fired up beautifùlly, rode her for 15 minutes, took her to 6-7K RPM without worries, she reached 110 KPH with ease, felt a little vibration, could've sworn I heard the ticking again for a while.Adjusted the idle to 1200, no problems. Decided to stat in town to keep testing. Rode her for another 5 minutes or so before she stalled at a traffic light, let her cool off and rode home with half-choke (otherwise she'd stall).
Am I dealing with plugs or is this a carb issue? I took off the gas tank and nothing was 'squeezed', tried running her at PRI/RES but that didn't change anything so I doubt it's the fuel delivery. Help!
sounds like your polot jet or jets are plugged, they control fuel at idle. check youtube for carb removal/cleaning to see how its done. when i did mine i just turned them up and put a piece of 2x6 under them, and left the throttle,choke, and tps wires attached.
Quote from: grader on June 25, 2016, 08:12:25 AM
sounds like your polot jet or jets are plugged, they control fuel at idle. check youtube for carb removal/cleaning to see how its done. when i did mine i just turned them up and put a piece of 2x6 under them, and left the throttle,choke, and tps wires attached.
Thanks for the advice. I'll put in some fresh plugs tomorrow and I'll see how she runs. If anything, I'll clean the jets.
I do plan on putting a K&N lunchbox filter on her someday so I might as well learn how to remove the carbs and jets so that I'll have the know-how when I'll re-jet her in the future.
All spark plugs do is ignite the fuel/air mixture inside the engine to get it started. If your bike is having issues accelerating, grader is almost definitely right. Your jets are what modulate the amount of fuel that gets squirted into the engine at different rpm ranges. Clean your jets out, you should see results you'll be happy with.
I wonder why the jets would start clogging after 15-20 minutes consistently. Have you checked that you're getting spark on both sides after it starts acting up? Easy to rule out before pulling off the carbs.
And did it really start happening immediately after you put down the wheelie? Maybe check the connections on the ignition coils. Mine can slip out pretty easily.
there is room for a bit of crud to sit harmlessly in the bottom of a carb bowl. under normal riding it stays there and does nothing. the wheelie probably allowed the crud to dislodge and get sucked into the pilots. the pilots flow fuel at all rpm and all the time, not just at idle.
Yes, it all started with the attempted wheelie (wasn't even a wheelie, despite my efforts, I can never lift a bike).
Put in some fresh plugs, she runs better now, accelerates a lot easier, still can't idle for her life after 15-20 minutes, so I guess I'll take out the carbs tomorrow and give them a good cleaning. I think what most of you are saying is correct - she had some gunk in them and it flew in with the sudden RPM drop when I tried the wheelie.
?
One more thing to look at that everyone seems to neglect until they cause problems: when's the last time you had your valve clearances checked? Dying at stop lights after riding for a bit, if I recall correctly, is a symptom of valve clearances that are out of spec.
The bike was servied about 6000 KM ago, which is by the owner's manual the exact time period between valve clearence check-ups.
The carbs were filthy. Didn't start her up yet, I need to get new screws for the float bowl as I ruined mine (luckily a friend helped).
Serviced by you? Or possibly by a previous owner? Because many of us have learned the hard way that previous owners don't always do quality work (or work at all for that matter).
Previous owner. I've had this bike for a little over a week now, and onlu a couple hundred KM's
Alright I think I've made it worse. The carbs were flithy all around and the float bowl was impossible to unscrew until a friend helped me with some heavy-duty equipment. I replaced the old ones as well.
The float bowl and jets were in great condition, very clean. I decided to clean them anyway. I closed everything off and put everything in place.
The bike starts, choke works for like 20 seconds and then the RPMs drop to about 1.5K. She sounds like a copper, meaning the sound from the exhaust is very inconsistant, with a large "pluse" every 5-8 seconds. The idle needle shows a steady 1.2 after adjustment without any choke.
Rode her around the parking lot, she has sudden pulses of fuel (suddenly she pulls really strongly). She stayed at 3K RPM after I let go of the throttle and pulled in the clutch. Also as soon as I started her I felt a breeze from the engine/carbs...what went wrong? The engine sounds healthy abd responsive, the spark is strong, air leak perhaps?
**I should note that I haven't touched the throttle or choke cables, I just put the carbs on a plank and worked with them still attatched
So with the carbs on your plank, were you able to pull the jets and clean them? The Pilot jet especially has a tiny inside diameter and notorious for clogging.
Also, hanging RPMs often means there's a vacuum leak. If the surging you noticed only comes when turning the handlebars to the right, for example, you may have a kink/catch in your throttle cable.
Yes I was able to clean them out with the carb cleaner. I also think there's a leak, but the carbs are dry so it can't be from the float bowl, perhaps the connection between the carbs and the airbox/engine?
I'll check the surges when I come back from work. Should I try to clean them again? I've only soaked them in carb cleaner for a while and cleaned them with a rag
It's entirely possible that you're dealing with multiple things here, so don't get too frustrated if you can't make sense of all the symptoms together. Fixing issues like these is a kind of process of elimination where you start with the easiest and most likely checks and progress down to the harder to accomplish.
You said you had to leave the choke on half way. The choke increases the gas in the fuel mixture making it richer. That your engine will die without choke implies that it is too lean. It might be lean from:
Cracked intake boots (the rubber between engine & carb)
Low fuel level in one or both carbs
Clogged jets
A common test for leaks in the intake boots is to spray something like WD-40 all over the boots while the engine is running and listen for changes in the RPMs.
Check the fuel level in your carbs using the u tube method.
http://www.bbburma.net/FloatHeight.htm
If you just used carb cleaner on your jets that might not have cleared out any dried on stuff in the orifice. I've seen other people use metal guitar string along with carb cleaner to poke out the gunk.
The surging might be from something else like ignition coils possibly, but check out your lean condition first that might clear up the surging too.
Quote from: TundraOG on June 28, 2016, 06:25:46 AM
Yes I was able to clean them out with the carb cleaner. I also think there's a leak, but the carbs are dry so it can't be from the float bowl, perhaps the connection between the carbs and the airbox/engine?
I'll check the surges when I come back from work. Should I try to clean them again? I've only soaked them in carb cleaner for a while and cleaned them with a rag
I'm especially thinking about your pilot jet. Did you hold it up to light to see if you could see through it? Carb cleaner only loosens the crud, it doesn't generally remove it all by itself (unless you've got the good stuff they don't make anymore). If you can't see through the jets, they aren't clean.
Additionally, the idle screw should only be adjusted after the engine is good and hot like after riding for a bit. As many others here would tell you, the idle screw doesn't usually need to change much at all if everything else is in proper working order. Using the idle screw to try to correct a poor idle/surge is like trying to use duct tape to heal a broken bone. You know it hurts, but you're not diagnosing or correcting the problem--just masking it/propping it up.
Alright, I'll be sure to check the pilot jets and clean them out for good this time. My guitar could also use some fresg strings so a trip to the music store won't be in vain.
About the whole float level u tube check - I'll try to find one. When I drained my carbs there was a LOT of fuel coming out,. And the intake boots seemed alright to me, not dry or cracked at all, actually they were in pretty good condition.
And I'm not that frustrated. The bike is great, I just need to figure some stuff out and get her back on the road.
If more than a couple ounces of gas drained out of one side or the other, your float valves may not be as good as you think they are.
I think it would fill a small esspresso cup.
And what do you mean by float valves? I can't find that term anywhere
Quote from: TundraOG on June 28, 2016, 10:48:11 AM
I think it would fill a small esspresso cup.
And what do you mean by float valves? I can't find that term anywhere
I mean the needle valve attached to the float that prevents gas from overfilling the carb bowl. If the rubber is old/dried out/corroded on either the o ring or the needle itself, it will not get a good seal and gas continues to fill the carb bowl.
Huh, that's an eye opener, thanks.
I'll check them tomorrow first thing in the morning.
Alright, here's the update:
Opened up the carbs once again, cleaned the jets (they WERE a bit clogged, especially on one carb).Closed her up, she fires up and chokes up to a healthy 3K RPM, no breeze from the engine or carbs, no pulses, smooth as can be...BUT! When I let the choke down she stays at 3K RPM, as if the choke is still on, and when I shut her off and start her again without any choke she fires up to about 1-1.2K RPM, but if I use the throttle and get her to higher RPMs she'll stay at 2.5-3K again.
Is this a throttle/choke cable problem? I tried firing her up and while in 1.2K RPMs wiggled the hadlebars to the left/rigjt and it made no difference until I added the throttle
try backing out the idle screw to lower the rpm.
This could still be a vacuum leak somewhere around the intakes.
I might also suggest lubing both the choke and throttle cables and checking for appropriate slack on both. If there isn't quite enough slack on the throttle cable, for example, it might be hanging open a little.
Alright, made it worse again.
Tried the "hillbilly carb sync" method (gas tank off yet attached, bike running, taking off the plug cover and seeing if there's a difference in power). Long story short - I unscrewed the whole idle screw off by mistake, and now have to tear her apart again and install it...she didn't run at all after I touched the carb screw, not with thottle, rarely with choke....*sigh* if only I could afford it I'd tow her to the nearest workshop and have them fix her for me...
Before you pull your carbs off again, do you have a Haynes or Clymer manual that covers your bike's year? I would STRONGLY advise reading and trying to work within the methods presented there to avoid making things worse.
It seems to me like you're trying things with a wish and a prayer that things get fixed and without any idea whether or not it could/should/would help.
No manual but the Owner's manual that came with the bike.
People told me it might be a vaccum leak from the air fillter. I sprayed it with carb clean and didn't see any difference in the RPMs but it does have a tiny crack on one side.
If you buy nothing else for your bike, buy one of these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844258815/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1844258815&linkCode=as2&tag=gstwincom (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844258815/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1844258815&linkCode=as2&tag=gstwincom) if you're going to do any work yourself.
If I didn't have mine, I wouldn't even attempt to do any work. Good luck trying to solve your bike's issues.
Alright, I downloaded the manual and read the carb part. Overall - I wasn't that far off. After the bike started, I should have checked the throttle cable slack and be done with it.
I'm going to put back the sync screw, set the throttle cable slack and sync the carbs. It should solve my problem.
**UPDATE**
Throttle cable is spot-on, the diaphragm are equally placed and return in the same speed. Choke cabew was a bit loose and didn't return all the way slowly so I adjusted it. Noticed a slight leak in one of the manifolds between the engine and carb, that needs to be replaced and maybe will solve my problem
Choke stuck open is a :technical: :technical: :technical:
It is possible to reach the metal bit the pulls on the choke needles. Reach up there and and manually push the choke needles in, see if that helps.
Alright, the choke is alright, I fixed it and now it comes back to place like it should. The airbox and engine gaskets show no signs of leaks, the cables are alright, the throttle is responsive, everything's in it's place...so WHY won't she start? I hear the starter rotating but no ignition, choke or without it. The gas petcock is open (of course), and the battery is showing signs of weakness (probably due to me cranking the starter so much)...what now?
I'm seriously thinking of just having her towed to my mechanic and paying him next week when I'll get the paycheck...
Yet another stupid newbie question
Have you checked the compression? If you have ruled out everything BUT the cylinders, then that would be a place to look.
Actually, the battery is showing signs of weakness, and the dashboard lights start fading when I crank the starter, meaning - it's not charged! Now I'll have to wait until Sunday (we work on Sundays) to get it charged in a local shop, or just tow the whole bike there
I don't have any dash lights anymore, maybe another user can comment whether their lights dim. I think it might be normal.
You should be able to take your battery to an auto parts store and have them test it for you for free. For sure get it tested before you pay money to replace it.
Quote from: lucas on July 01, 2016, 05:54:11 PM
I don't have any dash lights anymore, maybe another user can comment whether their lights dim. I think it might be normal.
You should be able to take your battery to an auto parts store and have them test it for you for free. For sure get it tested before you pay money to replace it.
No,it's pretty much a brand-new battery, no need to have her replaced. There's a bike garage in town that can charge her for free
Alright, it's running again. Clutch in, push the starter and it idles nicely at 1400 RMPs when warmed up. The idle screw doesn't work for some reason.
The throttle response is a bit so-so, and when I rev it up to 3-4 K it comes down gradually within a few seconds, not immidiately like it used to. The throttle cable snaps into place as it should. Rode her in the building's parking lot, the throttle response is poor and the acceleration is delayed.
What could be the problem now?
Its a little hard to know where to start but, what were the jet sizes? GS500F idle jets are notoriously lean at size 17.5, replace them with 20's so the choke is only required when it is actually cold. Lubricate throttle and choke cables.
Carb cleaning: I use engine De-greaser/wash, it cleans well overnight and doesn't damage rubber and plastic bits. The good old carb cleaning dip is fine if its metal only that you are working with, and you don't splash in yur eye.
Is this bike new to you? I think a flush of the fuel tank and petcock might be in order and a compression test and valve adjustment so that you are starting from a known place. A 15 tooth front sprocket if you wanna wheelie :woohoo: