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Main Area => General GS500 Discussion => Topic started by: warmachine81 on July 18, 2016, 01:18:24 AM

Title: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 18, 2016, 01:18:24 AM
 :mad: I've recently replaced the front brake line and fitted the original master cylinder and fitted new pads. Have bleed it to absolute buggery and can't get pressure. The cylinder worked fine prior to this. I did use a clamp to push the Pistons back in the caliper when putting in the new brakes. Have a screwed my seals and got my pistons stuck or did my master cylinder die while it was off the bike for a couple of months?
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: barry905 on July 18, 2016, 02:14:12 AM
One thought that springs to mind is that after you have bled the brakes and removed all the air you need to advance the pistons to get the pad in contact with the disk. This can sometimes seem to take forever and needs a lot of pumping the brakes.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 18, 2016, 03:54:56 AM
I spent hours bleeding the system over and over and the Pistons haven't moved one bit. I can't even pull them out.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: Janx101 on July 18, 2016, 04:44:10 AM
Sounds like a remove the line, fit an air spigot and apply steady pressure with compressor job? Perhaps? ....

Also... with line removed make sure fluid pumps out the end with a press of lever?!
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: fetor56 on July 18, 2016, 05:48:15 AM
Shouldn't have been necessary to use a clamp to push the pistons back in.Pistons externally lubricated with brake fluid (along with their seals) and worked in by fingers should have been enough.
Use air pressure (GOOD air foot pump/12v air compressor/etc) to see if the pistons have movement.If your going to remove the caliper place something resembling the disk rotor in the caliper so the pistons don't over-reach their travel and pop out.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: Fatasianboy on July 18, 2016, 01:38:03 PM
Did you use a vacuum bleeder? When I didn't have a vacuum bleeder it was a pain in the ass to get the air out of the lines. Once I got the bleeder it was done in 5 mins.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: barry905 on July 18, 2016, 05:41:27 PM
Thinking about how the brake operates, the brake lever moves a piston in the master cylinder and this moves a column of fluid down the brake line. When this fluid movement hits the caliper it puts pressure on the piston which clamps it on the disk. So if you could bleed the brakes a column of fluid must move down the pipe to the bleed nipple and then out of the system. If this works then the master cylinder is OK. Which implies you have a problem in your caliper. If neither piston moves, then either they are both stuck or there is no pressure pushing them. But you have fluid movement and thus pressure (when you bled the brakes), and if the pistons ere stuck then you would have pressure on the lever but no braking!

Sorry to ask the simplistic question, but when you bled the brakes you did make sure that the master cylinder was topped up at all times. I have known cases where is was not, and more air was introduced into the brake system. You have a system where you can bleed it, which means that the fluid moves, but the pistons don't move and you have no pressure, which implies air in the system. Try pumping the lever to see if you can get pressure.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: Big Rich on July 19, 2016, 05:54:07 AM
One thing I want to mention: if you use air pressure to move the pistons, DO NOT leave your fingers in the path of the pistons!! They can come out with a lot of force, and possibly amputate a finger. A thin piece of wood to catch the pistons works well.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: lucas on July 19, 2016, 10:10:29 AM
Fingers crossed they read that warning before they start.  This could turn into a real brake bleeding nightmare  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: boggy on July 19, 2016, 12:40:52 PM
Hi, had same nightmare when I replaced the seals in the caliper, could not get any pressure when bleeding it, I solved my problem by taking the pipe and bleed nipple out filled the caliper up with fluid using a shringe, then reconnected the pipe and nipple and bleed them. It worked for me :dunno_black: :dunno_black: :woohoo:
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 20, 2016, 12:07:06 AM
I've left it for a couple of days now. Am about to take the caliper into work and hook it up to the compressor. Fingers crossed. I haven't paid anyone to do anything on this rebuild yet. I'll be dammed if something as simple as brakes stuff that up. At no point did my master cylinder suck in air. Fingers crossed
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 20, 2016, 12:12:25 AM
Plus I'm just using a simple one man bleeder. I didn't like the aussie price for a vacuum bleeder
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 22, 2016, 04:43:12 AM
So the air compressor was able to move the Pistons out enough for me. I gave everything a good clean with brakes cleaner. Had to push the Pistons back to get it to fit on the disc. I'm a fairly strong guy and still needed to use a clamp to push them back. Did the rebleed and still no pressure or pad biting the disc. With the line off the caliper it still pumps fluid out. Prior to changing to the braided lines my brakes worked fine. I'm completely stumped on this. I have another ebay master cylinder. I might try that again. It worked prior to changing the lines and pads.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: Big Rich on July 22, 2016, 06:18:18 AM
If the pistons are moving freely, and the master is pushing fluid, there has to be air in the system somewhere. There's no weird loops in the brake line, is there? It only takes one little pocket of air to mess up the entire system. I've gone as far as removing the entire brake system and mounting the caliper to a rotor OFF the bike, to ensure the brake line is straight up and down.

Keep at it man, you'll get it.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 22, 2016, 07:15:59 AM
Hahaha no weird loops. I can't understand how there can still be air in the system if I'm only bleeding fluid.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: fetor56 on July 22, 2016, 04:02:52 PM
It concerns me that u STILL had to use a clamp to push the pistons back in.Having said that u can try(with the pistons fully in/home,so there's absolutely minimal air in the caliper) injecting brake fluid FROM the caliper TO the master cylinder.This is done via a syringe and plastic hose....medical syringe's are the cheapest and u already have the hose.
Be careful not to overfill the MC.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 22, 2016, 04:35:16 PM
Reverse bleed! I'll give it a whirl
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: fetor56 on July 22, 2016, 04:44:40 PM
Quote from: warmachine81 on July 22, 2016, 04:35:16 PM
Reverse bleed! I'll give it a whirl
Sometimes u need to do a combination of both, but that's pretty rare.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 22, 2016, 08:29:14 PM
Sound I hold the lever down while pushing on the plunger. I tried it with it out and made a massive mess when the tube came off the syringe  >:(
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: fetor56 on July 22, 2016, 11:39:12 PM
Quote from: warmachine81 on July 22, 2016, 08:29:14 PM
Sound I hold the lever down while pushing on the plunger. I tried it with it out and made a massive mess when the tube came off the syringe  >:(
Don't hold the lever down...just let it flow up the line and into the MC with only moderate pressure.Be patient,it MUST flow unless something else is wrong.
PS...not meaning to be a smart ass but i trust your leaving the cap off the MC as your doing this and leaving the bleed nipple open.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 23, 2016, 03:43:41 AM
Swaped the master cylinder and did reverse bleed. For more air out of the system and rebleed to get pressure. WE HAVE FRONT BRAKES AGAIN. This was the last thing I needed to do before getting it registered again however now I need to retro fit my clutch lever so it matches the brake.
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: fetor56 on July 23, 2016, 03:59:12 AM
We finally got there....good work.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 23, 2016, 04:47:57 AM
So I changed the master cylinder to the one I actually wanted to use. Did the reverse bleed and bleed to get pressure finally. Boys and girls WE HAVE FRONT BRAKES AGAIN. This was the last thing I needed do on the build to get it registered. Now I just need to retro fit the other matching clutch lever
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: ShowBizWolf on July 23, 2016, 09:17:18 AM
WOOT!!! Glad to hear it  :woohoo:
:cheers:
Title: Re: Front brake bleeding nightmare
Post by: warmachine81 on July 23, 2016, 03:05:56 PM
I really want to thank everybody on this thread for their support and advice. I was getting ready to put it in the too hard basket and do something horrible like pay somebody to fix it for me or worse set it on fire hahahahahaha. Thanks again guys :bowdown: