Hi, i'm going to change the alternator cover gasket and since i have to drain the oil, i would like to add an oil temperature gauge.
The first idea was putting the sensor in the drain plug and run wires to a gauge on the handlebar.
The problem is that the wires would be really close to the exhaust, will it work or will they just "cook"?
I'd prefer to have a gauge on the handlebar and don't have to lean off the tank to see the gauge on the oil refill plug.
Unfortunately i can't drill a hole in the sump and i have a 02 so no oil lines.
Do anyone of you have an idea? Will the drain plug sensor work?
Thank you!
something like this? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1317-Engine-Oil-Temperature-Gauge-Suzuki-GS450-GS500-GSX250-GSX400-KATANA-/400851606566
also this might be worth a look
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=33371.0
Quote from: Big1995 on August 04, 2016, 01:32:16 PM
Hi, i'm going to change the alternator cover gasket and since i have to drain the oil, i would like to add an oil temperature gauge.
The first idea was putting the sensor in the drain plug and run wires to a gauge on the handlebar.
The problem is that the wires would be really close to the exhaust, will it work or will they just "cook"?
I'd prefer to have a gauge on the handlebar and don't have to lean off the tank to see the gauge on the oil refill plug.
Unfortunately i can't drill a hole in the sump and i have a 02 so no oil lines.
Do anyone of you have an idea? Will the drain plug sensor work?
Thank you!
You can get heat-proof sheathing of various sizes for wires to keep it protected, and good routing and tying it down will go a long way to preserving it. You could get multiple sizes and Russian-doll the sheathing for extra protection if you wanted to. The wire still may harden over time, but if you have to replace just the wire every 4-5 years, who cares...? But maybe not even that frequently if you layer up and route it carefully.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=heat%20proof%20wire%20sleeve
Quote from: Jimbob on August 05, 2016, 04:20:33 AM
something like this? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1317-Engine-Oil-Temperature-Gauge-Suzuki-GS450-GS500-GSX250-GSX400-KATANA-/400851606566
That's exactly whati don't want, i couldn't see it while riding
Quote from: Jimbob on August 05, 2016, 04:20:33 AM
also this might be worth a look
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=33371.0
This! I saw that bolt today and the Suzuki dealer said it's just a plug, that would be perfect! Anyone knows thread size and pitch? the bolt itself looks similar to the drain bolt and here
https://www.discountbikespares.co.uk/ourshop/prod_2608280-PLUG-OIL-DRAIN-GS-GSX-GSF-BEVEL-DRIVE-FILLER-GS1000-GS850.html
says they are the same on k models but i would like to double check this...
Quote from: chornbe on August 05, 2016, 04:36:08 AM
You can get heat-proof sheathing of various sizes for wires to keep it protected, and good routing and tying it down will go a long way to preserving it. You could get multiple sizes and Russian-doll the sheathing for extra protection if you wanted to. The wire still may harden over time, but if you have to replace just the wire every 4-5 years, who cares...? But maybe not even that frequently if you layer up and route it carefully.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=heat%20proof%20wire%20sleeve
This could be an idea too, but i still have to find where to route them, since there is a way more accessible plug on the side, i think i'll go with that one.
Thank you for the heat sheathing idea, one more thing i know, one more thing i can use in the future :)
Quote from: Big1995 on August 05, 2016, 10:05:24 AM
This could be an idea too, but i still have to find where to route them, since there is a way more accessible plug on the side, i think i'll go with that one.
Thank you for the heat sheathing idea, one more thing i know, one more thing i can use in the future :)
Of course that one is preferable, but that wasn't in your first post, which is what I was answering. If you can make the one on the block/head work, absolutely that's the better option. :cheers:
Whats the point?
Its just something else to worry about. Unless you take it to an extreme you will never overheat the oil, not in a Gs5.
Keep an eye on the level, change it regularly use good quality stuff and you won't have a problems!
Quote from: sledge on August 05, 2016, 11:20:32 AM
Whats the point?
Its just something else to worry about. Unless you take it to an extreme you will never overheat the oil, not in a Gs5.
Keep an eye on the level, change it regularly use good quality stuff and you won't have a problems!
I'm 100% in agreement. Unless you're sitting in traffic in 110* weather somewhere, you'll be fine. Even then... you'll likely be fine.
The point is just do something on my bike and learn new things ;) And to know the temperature of the oil can't hurt, so...
I'll ask it again in case someone skips the first posts, anyone knows if the clutch cover plug under the pickup cover is M14x1.5?
Quote from: sledge on August 05, 2016, 11:20:32 AM
Whats the point?
Its just something else to worry about. Unless you take it to an extreme you will never overheat the oil, not in a Gs5.
Keep an eye on the level, change it regularly use good quality stuff and you won't have a problems!
Totally. But if you want that info why not just get an oil temp dipstick that replaces the original filler cap? I mean do you really need to be able to see the temperature continuously? I don't really get it. And if you're stuck in traffic at 110 then I'd turn the engine off.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-GS-500-2001-Magnetic-Drain-Plug-Bolt-Oil-Temperature-Gauge-/301729954505
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Olthermometer-Oltemperatur-Direktmesser-Suzuki-GS-500-E-H-EU-709-13-17-/361317558633
If you want to learn something, have something unique and have an adventure on the way....... put a fuel level gauge in.
That WOULD be impressive because (as far as I know at least) no one has ever done it.
It would give you massive bragging rights and be far more useful too.
Quote from: user11235813 on August 06, 2016, 07:32:55 PM
Totally. But if you want that info why not just get an oil temp dipstick that replaces the original filler cap? I mean do you really need to be able to see the temperature continuously? I don't really get it. And if you're stuck in traffic at 110 then I'd turn the engine off.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-GS-500-2001-Magnetic-Drain-Plug-Bolt-Oil-Temperature-Gauge-/301729954505
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Olthermometer-Oltemperatur-Direktmesser-Suzuki-GS-500-E-H-EU-709-13-17-/361317558633
The traffic where i live is stop and go traffic, i would have to turn on/off the engine every 30 seconds draining the battery and ruining everything that doesn't get oil on startup).
If i put a gauge i'd like to be able to see it, otherwise it's not useful anymore... If i have to stop only to check the temperature i don't need it!
Quote from: sledge on August 07, 2016, 02:10:45 AM
If you want to learn something, have something unique and have an adventure on the way....... put a fuel level gauge in.
That WOULD be impressive because (as far as I know at least) no one has ever done it.
It would give you massive bragging rights and be far more useful too.
In my opinion that's far less useful than an oil temperature gauge, you can know when you don't have enough fuel, the bike will run bad, just turn the petcock and you know you have 80-100km of range. You can check the level looking through the cap before leaving too...
I know when i'm low on fuel just knowing how many km i did with the amount of fuel i put the last time.
And i don't want to impress anyone, i just want to learn something and since i always been allergic to electronic things this would be a nice start :D (yes i know it's just wiring an instrument, but now i don't know how to do it, so it's still something)
@Big1995, sure, when you said stuck in traffic I thought you meant like at a bridge opening or suchlike, we don't have stop and go traffic (for bikes) here in Brisvegas because the govt. just brought in new laws allowing filtering meaning we can legally ride up between cars and also the hard shoulder. ;¬)
Nevertheless I must pose this question because I'm waiting for the men's 4x100 swimming relay to begin and I don't have anything else to do in the meantime (watching not swimming it that is)... Where I live the temp hovers around the high 38C during the summer and it's never seemed like it was excessively hot even during slow going.
So, if your riding conditions are such that the slow crawling part of your journey is genuinely bringing you into territory that causes concern then it's either going to be a problem or it isn't. Look at it this way, if you had a proper oil temp gauge and you're riding in your stop go traffic and you temp gets into the danger zone, what are you going to do, pull over and wait for it to cool then begin riding and keeping an eye on the temp? This doesn't sound like a long term strategy to me.
It's something that you only need to find out a few times it's not going to suddenly change, so sticking a dipstick temp gauge in will give you that information, sure it's inconvenient compared to glancing at a gauge but once you've established that your bike won't tolerate your conditions then you've pretty much no need for the gauge any longer, you now have a problem to solve.
One solution would be to install an oil cooler another might be to investigate how to get your oil flow improving by using different weights, grades or qualities of oil.
Conversely if you put on a screw in dipstick gauge and you check it a couple of times during what you consider your hottest day and slowest traffic and there's no problem then you're golden, it's not going to suddenly get worse in better conditions unless there is a problem elsewhere.
Finally, I've just gone out and had a look at my bike and to check a dipstick gauge while sitting on the bike only necessitate having a look down, you don't have to stop the bike and get off, sure you can't do that while riding but then you wouldn't need to, during the 'stop' part of the stop and go traffic that is when you glance down. I'm not trying to be obstreperous here (well maybe a bit) I just can't resist an opportunity for logical reasoning.
I have one of these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/262309244342?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
fitted on my handlebars with the probe wire cable tied running down the RH frame leg which shields it from the exhaust heat and attached to the crankcase at the lowest point possible with a dob of silicone that completely envelops the probe so that it is less likely to be affected by air temperature.
I actually have one on my other bike, a Honda too.
Although it is not immersed in the oil it is reading lower crankcase temperature which approximates oil temperature quite well.
The only time that I have felt that it is not giving me a reasonably accurate reading is in the rain as the splashing water cools the ouside of the crankcase much faster than the oil would cool. If I go through a big puddle I can see the temperature drop 10 degrees almost instantly but it rises again quickly.
My GS is an "F" with the oil cooler and originally I mounted the probe on the intake side of the cooler but I found that the temperature reading would tak a long time to climb so I moved it to the lower crankcase.
On a cold day when moving above 50kph it will usually show somewhere around 50C. During the time sitting at a red light it might go up to the low 70sC but will drop within seconds when I start moving again.
On a very hot day (40C) when moving it will show around 75-78C. If stopped in traffic it will VERY quickly climb to 85-90C.
The highest that I have seen is 96C and it will not go above that even if I remain stationary.
Because I am stationary and there is virtually NO airflow at that point I am confident that the reading it quite accurate.
It seems that there is enough natural radiation from the engine and the oil cooler to prevent it going any higher.
If I am able to get moving and quickly get up to 90kph it will take perhaps 5-10 minutes to drop back to 80C.
If continuing to move in slow traffic it will hover aropund 90C.
The digital unit is NOT waterproof but if it is going to be wet I just hold a small piece of clear plasic bag over it with an elastic band. Both bikes have had them now for over two years and I have only changed the batteries once, just recently.
As I am a mechanic I am very interested in these things so I did it as an experiment.
It is very interesting to watch the temperature rise and fall.
Minerall oil starts to lose its properties if it is continually above 90C. That is why I wanted to know what is going on.
Synthetic oils are usually stable up to 120-130C.
Given what I have seen I have continued to use mineral oil and feel confident that it is safe to do so as the temperature will usually only go above 90C in extreme conditions
If you spend a LOT of time stopped in traffic in very hot weather a synthetic oil is the go.
My Honda, being water cooled has a much more stable oil temperature and is usually between 70C and 83C regardless of ambient conditions. It has reached 90C only once when stuck in traffic on a 40C day.
Macka
Quote from: sledge on August 07, 2016, 02:10:45 AM
If you want to learn something, have something unique and have an adventure on the way....... put a fuel level gauge in.
That WOULD be impressive because (as far as I know at least) no one has ever done it.
It would give you massive bragging rights and be far more useful too.
He asked A. You answered B.
Quote from: user11235813 on August 07, 2016, 05:51:02 PM
@Big1995, sure, when you said stuck in traffic I thought you meant like at a bridge opening or suchlike, we don't have stop and go traffic (for bikes) here in Brisvegas because the govt. just brought in new laws allowing filtering meaning we can legally ride up between cars and also the hard shoulder. ;¬)
Nevertheless I must pose this question because I'm waiting for the men's 4x100 swimming relay to begin and I don't have anything else to do in the meantime (watching not swimming it that is)... Where I live the temp hovers around the high 38C during the summer and it's never seemed like it was excessively hot even during slow going.
So, if your riding conditions are such that the slow crawling part of your journey is genuinely bringing you into territory that causes concern then it's either going to be a problem or it isn't. Look at it this way, if you had a proper oil temp gauge and you're riding in your stop go traffic and you temp gets into the danger zone, what are you going to do, pull over and wait for it to cool then begin riding and keeping an eye on the temp? This doesn't sound like a long term strategy to me.
It's something that you only need to find out a few times it's not going to suddenly change, so sticking a dipstick temp gauge in will give you that information, sure it's inconvenient compared to glancing at a gauge but once you've established that your bike won't tolerate your conditions then you've pretty much no need for the gauge any longer, you now have a problem to solve.
One solution would be to install an oil cooler another might be to investigate how to get your oil flow improving by using different weights, grades or qualities of oil.
Conversely if you put on a screw in dipstick gauge and you check it a couple of times during what you consider your hottest day and slowest traffic and there's no problem then you're golden, it's not going to suddenly get worse in better conditions unless there is a problem elsewhere.
Finally, I've just gone out and had a look at my bike and to check a dipstick gauge while sitting on the bike only necessitate having a look down, you don't have to stop the bike and get off, sure you can't do that while riding but then you wouldn't need to, during the 'stop' part of the stop and go traffic that is when you glance down. I'm not trying to be obstreperous here (well maybe a bit) I just can't resist an opportunity for logical reasoning.
Hey another Brissy boy! Yes, those filtering laws are absolutely awesome, no issues with overheating on my old 450 either even in the middle of summer.
I've wondered sometimes if it's worth putting an oil temp gauge on for the commute during summer, but like you say the best you can do is pull over and wait...
And a dipstick gauge would work just fine if you're that keen, in traffic you will have plenty of opportunities to glance beside your right shin to see where it's at.
Quote from: peteGS on August 08, 2016, 01:03:17 PM
Hey another Brissy boy! Yes, those filtering laws are absolutely awesome, no issues with overheating on my old 450 either even in the middle of summer.
I've wondered sometimes if it's worth putting an oil temp gauge on for the commute during summer, but like you say the best you can do is pull over and wait...
And a dipstick gauge would work just fine if you're that keen, in traffic you will have plenty of opportunities to glance beside your right shin to see where it's at.
Yo dude, yeah I'm going to put one of these dipstick gauges on my bike eventually anyway because it gives me the 'orn. One of the best bits that filtering legally allows is that I can filter right to the front of a the queue and if there's a cop car adjacent to me at the change of lights I can absolutely fang it till I hit the speed limit and then hold it at that speed, and even though I'm now only travelling at the speed limit and no one is going to overtake poppo which acts like a safety car at a formula one crash. It's surreal.
Quote from: user11235813 on August 08, 2016, 03:04:33 PM
Quote from: peteGS on August 08, 2016, 01:03:17 PM
Hey another Brissy boy! Yes, those filtering laws are absolutely awesome, no issues with overheating on my old 450 either even in the middle of summer.
I've wondered sometimes if it's worth putting an oil temp gauge on for the commute during summer, but like you say the best you can do is pull over and wait...
And a dipstick gauge would work just fine if you're that keen, in traffic you will have plenty of opportunities to glance beside your right shin to see where it's at.
Yo dude, yeah I'm going to put one of these dipstick gauges on my bike eventually anyway because it gives me the 'orn. One of the best bits that filtering legally allows is that I can filter right to the front of a the queue and if there's a cop car adjacent to me at the change of lights I can absolutely fang it till I hit the speed limit and then hold it at that speed, and even though I'm now only travelling at the speed limit and no one is going to overtake poppo which acts like a safety car at a formula one crash. It's surreal.
Yes indeed! I head down Pickering St at Enogerra each day and therefore see a reasonable number of them at the big depot there. I also filtered past one yesterday on an unmarked 'Busa. Not sure why he wasn't filtering... I've followed another motorcycle cop filtering on an FJ1300 and was quite delighted when he surprised a phone user in the traffic by tapping on their window. Should be more of it!
Holy threadjack, Batman!
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/da/6a/30/da6a3019e32f0d8b27f5b1bf52ebfa81.jpg)
Chornbe mate.... settle eh! :thumb: ... we ramble here...
you may be used to flame war forums and thread Nazi rules?
This place is like a weekend extended family BBQ at the beach! :)
So, jokes then...? They don't float? Got it.
bah, never mind.
Quote from: Big1995 on August 04, 2016, 01:32:16 PM
Do anyone of you have an idea? Will the drain plug sensor work?
Thank you!
Yeah I have an idea. See my gauges thread (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=70387.40) and speedometer (https://youtu.be/FEhdS0Wow-4). I'm running 3 sensors, ambient air, oil sump (inside the drain plug) and cilinder head temperature. Does the sump sensor work?
Yes and no. The sump bolt is too exposed for a usefull reading. It cools down too much to be of use when driving especially on the highway. Don't even bother checking it when it is raining because you will not get a usefull reading due to rainwater hitting the bottom of the engine. It's cute when you stand at a traffic light and you want to check if the oil is at operating temperature. That is all you can do with it.
An oil sump temperature sensor is useless for checking if you are overheating or not. In the sump the oil will be the coolest. As you cannot get an accurate reading you cannot even estimate if the oil is getting critical at the places it will be critical.
This is why I'm running a temperature sensor in the cilinderhead. It's simply a glass thermistor and some high temperature wire and shrinktube. I put the thermistor in the water drainage hole behind the sparkplug. Excellent reading on the hottest part of the bike: the cilinder head. Allows me to check if things are becoming critical when pulling my trailer. Fully loaded (100kg trailer) and a passenger bring it to critical temperatures.
I come to the conclusion that the oil sump bolt temperature sensor is pointless. If you want to track critical temperatures, put a sensor in the cilinderhead.
Next service I will remove my oil sump sensor and reinstall the magnet-sumpbolt. At least that one performs a usefull function.
Quote from: Big1995 on August 05, 2016, 11:47:38 AM
The point is just do something on my bike and learn new things ;) And to know the temperature of the oil can't hurt, so...
I'll ask it again in case someone skips the first posts, anyone knows if the clutch cover plug under the pickup cover is M14x1.5?
It's actually M14x1.25