Any of you who have been following this on the other forum know that I didn't intend for this bike to be a "project" but it's turning out to be one. At last I think I have the must-do mechanical stuff done and I can deal with cosmetics now.
Here's a crummy picture my wife took the day we brought the bike home:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FvWnvLDVhfiS4g8KYPG3QMkDX9NvCY1hIEeti_jIzc6jct5BtXbTS-4ApH3BlmJMkLSHD-SvgA=w537-h286-no)
Since then I have replaced the handlebar and mirrors. The tank is dented and even though I got it mostly straight (I have a little bit of bodywork skills) I decided to put an undented tank from an '07 on it, and it's in the mail. It'll need paint. The whole bike needs paint.
It has a bolt-on Yoshimura muffler from a GSXR 650. It looks to me like either an RS-1 or RS-3. It has an oval downturn outlet. My first question for you guys here is:
will one of these cheap "dB Killer" inserts from ebay fit in this muffler? Because I've determined it's just too loud. Warm-up at 5K RPM wakes the neighbors and just cruising on neighborhood streets at 30 mph in 4th is just too much noise to be pleasant.
I'm going to paint this a couple of pieces at a time. Probably going to go with "Viper Red", a quart of single-stage from Summit Racing (house brand paint). I'll pull the fender, side/rear plastics and paint the new tank all together. The plastics and fender all need some love from a sanding block before they are ready for paint. Who knows what the new tank will look like when it gets here but I'm pretty solid with paint and prep. I have an LVLP rig and have painted cars before.
The white paint on the wheels, presuming from the factory and 25 years old, is chipping in places. Next question:
can I strip this off with aircraft paint remover? Anyone tried that? I will probably rattle-can the wheels with some VHT wheel paint or something like that, and I think I'll do the fork lowers and fork brace in the same color.
What does it typically cost to get the tires re-balanced?The PO painted the frame with the bike completely torn down. How hard is it to get the bike torn down enough to paint the frame? I have read elsewhere on the forum it's maybe 3 hrs to tear it down if you "know what you are doing", but if I already have the tank and wheels off, and if I ignore the fork, then what kind of time are we talking? I am just wondering if I can spend a whole Saturday, tear the bike down, do all of the sanding and paint, then get it together same day or next day. Is there stuff I can leave on and mask, and still get the frame painted? Presumably the swingarm stays on (especially if I keep the same color).
[BTW this is one very good reason to use catalyzed urethane automotive paint instead of rattle-can ... not only is it far more durable but it will be dry enough to recoat in 15 minutes and you can assemble it in an hour, use it in two hours or so... you'd wait at least a week for rattle-can paint to be close to dry enough to use.]
Next real question:
is the headlight supposed to appear level? Because mine doesn't. With the bike on the center stand on level garage floor, the headlight is a little bit rotated from level. I've disassembled and reassembled it and it seems to line up this way.
I also have a set of shorty levers on the way.
Q:
What are my options for an alternative tail light? I want something more rounded etc. but still highly visible. Not the brick that's on there now. But not some low-profile pretend it's a cafe racer kind of thing. Just slightly less blocky. Is this a universal kind of thing?
Q:
can I remove the triple clamp with the handlebars/controls still attached?I have a list of things I plan to do sort of in this order. Idea is for nothing to require the bike to be down long enough to prevent me from riding it. Most of this I plan to do in the evenings during the week so the bike can be working for the weekend.
- paint plastics and new tank, install new tank.
- paint wheels & other parts that will be that color
- paint frame. This may take two days if doing it in evenings after work.
- Take controls off/apart. Replace ignition switch [I have a new one, current one is keyed different from the tank and seat lock]. Paint headlight. Replace turn signals with something else.Put it all back together.
- consider engine paint/finish ... it's rough looking after being dropped on both sides by one or more previous owners.
- umm... that's all it needs. Go ride!
The "new" tank arrived. They shipped it with fuel in it!! Unbelievable!
Apparently it needed a cat scan after I unpacked it:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/B2q8pX4ZCojVXFXsB7SJt7TLjNXGlhFvSQVaIqXQH7rORwX6KdxIjobQgQNNZfeBQv7DaBfR9_qjYwMxWz2hQOTxYOCZizwjV3JPKAREnKMhHoOGmxKZsZ1uyQXUiDtwTorY-sbda9kY1l9mMbiiQJTLHBXyF87XGe5vQ0ZeK5zW-UpWWlrY2kEjgW3wrjXBz1MOGxMYvb5pvEJmKyRmPETURGEPMKsuGMvQ0lcPrjkksQBJrWrrTclZQihMnsi0GciDMnuV9X1O5CRgfw9wfMN0adEDEni7VNAiJgUp-OozX4AB58QHk9tgqk-m6VyWN0yU4cglcV4KKMTb-vllPsEzbzuevhIIUxJTf17bKzoz2pJ1LLfEaOoarvZ99SG9t4vyikzxgnMTA8TYRPjVkEMezv4q3VsG2Fws9RqYyvmLBXKdNlsmDUGmxsFUcc6gqfKYh8hfplrusUywNHhcQFyML3s9yXSPqcrHKW-cEPVWy4pZKUjWrY4aRP2U8IxpXlQSz3VKc1qFe3HjFQTS603JK4d8do3kkJ3IkJVOO7b1JSK82aZNceBw5l0LIrqshk_OdQPYDSGpC1KxF62UY6PKFVNVlDyiWk7Fr4oILTYAmXFk=w1074-h1906-no)
Anyway. It's pretty much mint condition besides paint flaws like a scratch or chip here and there but there is not a single solitary dent. Sanding and painting will fix everything. It's going to be fab!
In other news, I ran to my wit's end on the running issue it has, which is that it sputters and dies if you let it run below about 5K rpm when it's fully warmed up. I have checked everything to the limit of my knowledge and mechanical skill, so I'm taking it to the shop today and let a pro figure it out. I'm going to ask them to also sort out whatever remaining idle issues exist to make it run exactly right. I'm tired of working on the mechanicals and I'm ready to move to cosmetics.
Next is paint! Tank and side/tail plastics coming right up.
Why would they ship a fuel tank with fuel in it? ??? I would've been worried about the fuel leaking out in some way and soaking the package (and probably other packages) in an extremely flammable liquid during transit.
Quote from: qcbaker on October 11, 2016, 11:15:30 AM
Why would they ship a fuel tank with fuel in it? ??? I would've been worried about the fuel leaking out in some way and soaking the package (and probably other packages) in an extremely flammable liquid during transit.
No kidding. I was shocked. I assume it's fuel in it, there's some liquid in it and I haven't taken the looped hose off of the tank petcock yet to see just what liquid is in there. Oh yeah, and they included a tank petcock and a filler cap but no key.
It's certainly against the policy of UPS/FedEx/USPS to ship something like this with residual fuel in it, and it's extremely dangerous. Anyway, I'm glad it got here without starting a fire or blowing anything up.
The shop made progress on fixing the bike yesterday but it's still got an issue they have to work out, so I am going to start prepping the tank for paint.
I got the fuel cap off by drilling the lock. I was never able to really get ALL of the fuel out of the tank, how do you drain these things? I just let it sit open in hopes it will evaporate enough for me to go on with cleaning the inside of the tank today and start paint prep.
Quote from: mr72 on October 12, 2016, 05:44:49 AM
The shop made progress on fixing the bike yesterday but it's still got an issue they have to work out, so I am going to start prepping the tank for paint.
I got the fuel cap off by drilling the lock. I was never able to really get ALL of the fuel out of the tank, how do you drain these things? I just let it sit open in hopes it will evaporate enough for me to go on with cleaning the inside of the tank today and start paint prep.
Gasoline evaporates pretty fast when left out in the open, so if there isn't much left in there, leave it open in a well ventilated area for a few hours and see what its state is.
RE: drilling the lock: does the gas cap still close properly? Like, you can open and close it with your key now? The reason I ask is because I will be receiving a seat lock in the next day or two, and I will most likely have to do something similar to get it to function properly when affixed to my bike. I don't really care if the lock is "secure" (
only opens with my key), I just want my key to open it. The seat lock is wafer lock, so I know I can most likely rekey it by disassembling the lock, but if I cant figure out a way to properly disassemble it, I will most likely attempt to drill it out if I can know that the lock will still work to some degree.
Mechanic called today and then I went in later to the shop to take a look. The primary problem is the intake valves do not even come close to sealing, so compression is low (120/80) and the bike can't run right when it's warmed up. So the shop is going to rebuild the top end for me. When I get it back it should have new rings, honed cylinders, cleaned-up head and valves, cleaned/professionally-set carbs, new intake boots, you name it. The shop seems quite confident this will not only fix it right but make it good for another 20K miles with no additional work needed. Let's hope they are right!
I plan to pick up the plastics and fender from the shop and paint them along with the tank while the bike is in pieces. I figure once they get it done I can ride home with no fender or side plastics and reassemble it myself when it's home along with the new tank.
Quote from: qcbaker on October 12, 2016, 12:03:04 PM
Gasoline evaporates pretty fast when left out in the open, so if there isn't much left in there, leave it open in a well ventilated area for a few hours and see what its state is.
That's what I'm doing now.
Quote
RE: drilling the lock: does the gas cap still close properly? Like, you can open and close it with your key now?
No. It MIGHT be possible to swap out the lock cylinder and parts completely with one from a different fuel filler. But the lock itself is completely gone. I drilled a 1/2" hole straight through it. That's most of the lock.
Now, I wouldn't mind a non-locking seat "latch" to replace my seat lock. But maybe when I no longer have to take the seat off constantly to repair the thing I won't mind the lock so much.
Anyway, that doesn't help with your problem, I know. I think you destroy the lock cylinder when you drill it, and once destroyed, there is nothing to actuate the latch because that's done by rotation of the lock cylinder, at least on the tank lock. For the seat, who knows, but probably the same. You should just rekey it. IMHO :)
Quote from: mr72 on October 12, 2016, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: qcbaker on October 12, 2016, 12:03:04 PM
Gasoline evaporates pretty fast when left out in the open, so if there isn't much left in there, leave it open in a well ventilated area for a few hours and see what its state is.
That's what I'm doing now.
Quote
RE: drilling the lock: does the gas cap still close properly? Like, you can open and close it with your key now?
No. It MIGHT be possible to swap out the lock cylinder and parts completely with one from a different fuel filler. But the lock itself is completely gone. I drilled a 1/2" hole straight through it. That's most of the lock.
Now, I wouldn't mind a non-locking seat "latch" to replace my seat lock. But maybe when I no longer have to take the seat off constantly to repair the thing I won't mind the lock so much.
Anyway, that doesn't help with your problem, I know. I think you destroy the lock cylinder when you drill it, and once destroyed, there is nothing to actuate the latch because that's done by rotation of the lock cylinder, at least on the tank lock. For the seat, who knows, but probably the same. You should just rekey it. IMHO :)
With a regular pin/tumbler lock, if you use a thin drill bit and you're very careful and patient, you can basically just destroy the lower pins inside the cylinder and then the cylinder will basically rotate freely, but still actuate the lock. Usually you just use a flathead screwdriver to open the lock after you drill the pins. I've done it with simple doorknob locks before, but I have no experience drilling a lock with pins on both sides, or one with that piece of metal that blocks the keyhole when nothing else is in it.
Anyway, I plan on at least attempting to rekey the lock before resorting to any other methods. The last seat lock I had (came with a fairing set I had to return, which is why i no longer have it), I could get it to open simply by raking the key in and out while trying to turn the key. So, if I can do that with this new one, I probably wont end up drilling anyway. If I can open the lock just by basically jiggling the key, I can live with that. I don't take my seat off too often anyway.
This morning I prepped the tank for paint.
There were a couple of chips here and there (not dents!) and I sanded them out, you can see the spots where the original color (black) or the primer (gray) shows through. In one or two spots I sanded to bare metal.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/R9lr4n9XDw7K1jjl78PxJc8yVWBzwPrC9rbUBohmJ3elGZG0DdATyVmYaE2pLqUtQqtkZJEzUlpUgaEPmK6nYTFmp5SZg379-i6Keobp8Nr5juFtbH1_JwBk7a5MsCMbganI7Sc0sc8YffuDaKCNvx2Nq1o71LdFeVBWTFoywetGj3b05GwKWJTYQfPwXX7lucUxPHXNKLNAebAOGhnOr_d8S2NwmKOuN63W5MuSrEnR5HWXNDCdkEpzpqemiS12Qyd49OXKgrfCQlx4Np94ZBThqX66DlgSmwLendKTSU3UkTqgnQilE4twrHVLlkBfC-OOjVUtI3ISLybIHzhz49xDX1pI6eYvUuOkT-Gor9_USDV7PCW7H0vkCTPQqbwgxg6D801tObGaA4J6vAg6g3DUC-xTdVaWjCMg352PdFq9aDOJyHhDxuZNqRFJQy4lY8ybW6kqy7ECVEF_oFzqJWUFPYJJBhvug0RrOk5pr2t71BuoOcQQhvq2wfrjuZm0Vcv6Q8wQMYEEY3aC9zu-DalyBT5j4QqHr9CnmL5Dxu5ISGe0xAPynyGbZvX87KwmW6YOyAYfGC730OqNaYZi1-XLVw1KfJRdxtU9KRoc7Mrqr9xM=w3288-h1850-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/y6p1Co5JCrrgWghN-ForSZGRpDPvBNxPtBnXiLNseSMozgF7xL5g0kSGCi0axybL4kGVKfO23hzd11kxwOivaw5-i3in1obU29_LutAebce3qzwPt8Y1DvWLPGtoLMnmnlR467DYQ7_0eKipp4rJHE1_06FFSJcRYgQSQwV-Bh4zDHzOBb-GhGJaA3ZueAoX6FFEAsl5GOFmRm7sM8IZEgPOVw0IttOGSEjTD4EGsz0EM1aoxMW_B4zBNvXxwmkKlOuI3RxSYwG-C_kyTFqbeIL9eqsFP-G44xSxBWYYtTD0j7PhbMsilJArHTd8ochGBJ23vUY_y_x8oYvarF9V6Z1907rVtg3tvs7R4zJazQ1Ad-MM2q60i1G8YRyz_JbvZYtvHsoePfpAZGBUgmjmuEGf5jNVDbs2F8COK-gIDPlYy9snC1upB2s38inX_vFaBbTGzxpIFjADzIPHIzKdyIRiOqrRos6Rou3FglccF3NkJ_a3G-IvQ_qGuOPBYynnRGRM8qxo1J3BPxJtQiprM5GG4PgxKvaRyD-IfBRobJGpc11vWueYhPt3ZRB2ob2c-7o0grNcCd9LqMoeLmjZDXKiLH9b5spoM92MIw00BfJu9vz1=w3288-h1850-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FbBnin8sA-mjy2fJOsanf2QUKm4Qk62XYMJ-GWmNOyZtCagBO6vK--sjfjguUjQ95HuIGKJQUxEU-RO58se79PCpdVAv9fiSPOUtmUL6OxeEXUb9TEfBqploIJV2IXx_IM7IsUq-tpazIKDAokpW-NW7uV2oAeiOH8VSgEYQM1Bf9hp2h637m5h_zNg6ySq9u8Ln_MrvFRuG8-FTVkrSqOGSySZW0EM5CXmmJqPMpmLjhysegtV1VpyUnQrCofq9AOIELYM1s4A2aSO5N2z48uqWi6ry5AdthasI0insFN3KV4GM10vkvsaBwmXnWKRzKVaCQO6Q7LkZceU_D809JMwtqL89z1ypZVKavSTLlMg5R9Zj5dafko6IRIOOxZdmtYv8P_9CQg7ruNTWPf7LWOx6WTsBYSgwXPkm5G95InRj0zZx8TgEZjkLw53Vsd0kpJCLWIWaKrY1w-szd3kQC2NeGtRHS6m5HYmkkukuedWuET-WgpGIZta2Cx3nAgURP1yo8QfT2_GpfTLFomAKisdfjm-hAiNFNxlc4DF79I24arxO-dYJoGnKi2dpz8MB0O0rRQ1XMSoP7dLFeAspXTusHlvvknrHULYaL2oshwOAWAH0=w1074-h1906-no)
I'll go pick up the side plastics and fender from the shop tomorrow, and plan to do my paint over the weekend.
I have decided to use rattle-can paint, even though I have a pro spray rig and could use ordinary catalyzed automotive paint. It's just so much of a pain to build the temporary booth in the garage and dial in the gun for the paint, plus I have to get the paint mixed and that's a big pain and it's like 4x the cost. So I think I'm going to stick with rattle cans. It's a small job, should work out ok.
I have tried a dozen different types of rattle can paints over the years refinishing guitars and other things, but I think I am going to try a new one this time. Rustoleum has an acrylic enamel they call "Automotive" that looks promising. I'm still almost undecided on color. I really like the red that's on the bike now, and I have white tank decals (just "SUZUKI") that I think will look great with red in sort of a Ducati way. But I have a half a mind to go with orange:
(https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Product/RustoleumUSA/CBG/auto/general-purpose-paints/acrylic-enamel/AU_AcrylicEnamel_GLS_Orange_L.ashx)
My concerns are what the white tank decal will look like on orange, is that too "creamcicle"? Is the orange too high-profile? Also since I have a high-vis helmet, would that look way too "day glo" alongside the orange bike?
I'm kind of thinking orange may be just too much of a mood thing and the red will be a more classic, timeless color that I'll be happy with for the long term. And since I'm dumping about twice as much money into this bike as I originally planned, I think I'm going to be in it for the long term. Plus, red will be way easier to sell if it comes to it.
(https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Product/RustoleumUSA/CBG/auto/general-purpose-paints/acrylic-enamel/AU_AcrylicEnamel_Sp_Red_L.ashx)
I'm also going to grab a can of high-temp silver (also Rustoleum) to paint the header and I'll likely use the same paint on the fork brace. With any luck I'll get all of this painting done this weekend.
When I get the bike back from the shop they promise it will run better than new. If I get my paint work done then it'll also look better than new.
No pictures yet, maybe later today, certainly tomorrow as I paint.
I decided on the Rustoleum "2X" acrylic enamel in "gloss cherry red":
(https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Product/RustoleumUSA/CBG/auto/general-purpose-paints/acrylic-enamel-2x/2XAcrylicEnamel_Renderings_Gloss_Cherry_Red.ashx)
The tank is prepped, primed and ready for final cleaning, tack cloth and paint. I finished removing decals and prepping the plastics this morning, they were drying when I left for the office. This afternoon, if the rain passes, I'll spray primer on the plastics and then finish prepping them with red scotchbrite to smooth and then in the morning Saturday I'll do final cleaning and tack, and paint.
The paint instructions says "recoat within 5 minutes or after one week" which means I can get 6 coats on each part in half an hour. I'll do the parts in stages. Start with the tail plastic so I can get the hang of this paint before moving on to bigger parts, then do the side plastics and then finally the tank.
OK, so I lied. Or I changed my mind.
I originally was planning to use this color:
(https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Product/RustoleumUSA/CBG/auto/general-purpose-paints/acrylic-enamel-2x/2XAcrylicEnamel_Renderings_Gloss_Cherry_Red.ashx)
But I could only find one can of it, and even though it boasts "2x" I just didn't think that was enough. So I ended up instead buying the more traditional "red" from Autozone:
(https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Product/RustoleumUSA/CBG/auto/general-purpose-paints/acrylic-enamel/AU_AcrylicEnamel_Sp_Red_L.ashx)
I painted with the "red" and got a ton of orange peel, but no bother, I was going to block it and cut it anyway so I did that and the sides turned out beautiful, and I haven't even done the final buffing yet. On the tank, however, I burned through the finish when compounding it. Grr. I was out of the "red" and just had the "gloss cherry red" and I secretly thought these were likely the same paint, just relabeled for Walmart to allow them to sell it way cheaper than the auto parts stores. So I touched up with "cherry red" and then blended and blocked it, began to cut it with rubbing compound, and eventually discovered some things.
#1, these are not the same color. Close, but not exact. The "cherry red" is a touch more orange than the "red". It's enough off that I can't go with the touch-up spot as is so I'm going to have to repaint one way or the other.
#2, I like the more orange "cherry red" color better.
#3, the "2x" paint (cherry red) is better paint. It laid down far more smoothly and had virtually no orange peel compared with the traditional RO acrylic enamel. And it was ready to buff after just about 4 hours compared with the other that took 24 hours to get hard enough to buff.
So, I have decided to scuff the "red" and repaint the whole thing in "cherry red". I actually don't think it will take that many coats since the cherry lays down way better and I might be able to get away with just about three coats without having to have a ton of buildup to sand out orange peel. We'll have to see once it's on. I ordered a 2nd can of the paint (again, from Walmart!) just in case I run out and need more to finish the job. Also, since I'll have to eventually paint the fender, I need more paint.
BTW I think my orange peel problem is because I was trusting Rustoleum's directions and going with multiple "light coats." I have done dozens of rattle-can finish jobs with various paints mostly on guitars and never had orange peel this bad, but I remember I was making a deliberate effort to keep the coats light since last time I did Rustoleum rattle-can job (on a Jerry can) I got runs, and I think RO tells you to use light coats to avoid runs. But I think if I can lay down heavier coats it will take fewer coats to cover and also not get nearly as much orange peel. I really do think the peel is due to too-light coats. About to find out.
If the entire tank and sides come out nearly as good as that one spot of touch up where I did cherry red, then this thing is going to be gorgeous when it's done.
In other news, my shorty levers (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0197N1RXY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) came in, and they look great. I got gray anodized with black adjusters. I am pretty stoked about that, I'll probably put them on the bike before I ride it away from the shop when it gets done.
The engine work is supposed to be done late this week and so I have a few days to get the sides repainted then I'll go pick up the bike, put the sides on while it's still there at the shop along with the shorty levers, then I will embark on a rings-break-in ride straight out of the shop, 20 miles of "don't baby it". The weather is supposed to turn cooler for the end of the week which is great news in Central TX October... It was 91 yesterday but Thursday and Friday forecast highs are in the low 70s... perfect bike-with-a-jacket weather!
I also got shorty levers for my bike, but I'm still waiting on them to ship in from Hong Kong lol. Mine are blue though, to match the rest of the bike.
Anyway, nice to see you're making progress with everything. :thumb:
In case you care at all: I had a locksmith just make me a separate key for the seat lock. That, plus a copy, and a copy of my ignition key to have a full spare set was only like 40 bucks. Much more cost effective than drilling the lock out lol.
The PO got a new lock set including an ignition switch, tank lid/lock and seat lock all keyed alike. The seat lock is on the bike, I have the tank lid (but it's non-awesome quality) and the new ignition switch that has not even been removed from the protective plastic. Eventually I plan to put the lock cylinder from the tank lock into the '07 fuel filler that I drilled, and then swap in the new ignition switch so everything will be keyed alike.
For the time being my seat lock is keyed differently than the ignition and tank. It's pretty low on the priority list to "fix" this. The kicker is if I can easily get the ignition switch/lock assy off, so if I can access it while the headlight is off to paint the bucket or maybe if I pull the triple to paint it, then I'll see if I can get that lock off. Those stupid break-off bolts are a pretty big annoyance.
Scuffed and repainted the tank and side plastics this morning. The new "2x" cherry red paint laid down way smoother. I might not even have to block out any orange peel... I mean, I don't mind a little orange peel in the final finish, just not extreme. If it's pretty smooth, like a new car finish, I'll take it and just buff with Meguiars Gold Class and call it done.
I think the reduce orange peel is a combination of more solids in the "2x" coverage paint and my willingness to spray heavier coats. The one can of 2x lasted for two solid 100% coverage coats on everything. Unfortunately another can of the paint is not to be had in North Austin anywhere so I ordered it through Walmart and it won't be here until this time next week. So if this much paint is not enough, then I'll be adding coats next week. In for a dime, in for a dollar.
sides, way less orange peel... it's still wet but if it dries like this, no blocking will be required.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6UOfKkX0OiJfLXIThjJ1F6xoNjrr2iHpqtyAyRyPmed-hLtEpl88iJe9wB29W3HHN0NVjuSR8hwQ7swZTE9FE378D8zzN-9bH1DJRJ86UNjMPNoalPgCejLJD6HBE6h-GyeHF7u4DvgXiQj7cEkDxojSYE7ZRPJYgFrvfhxcqGXksI3GQcfQrN1mWEiXk2ktYmnHXEWUg__1zsUHB5fW05t9WY8-ndSd0MN3cLMvHXxSQ0f5jY0a0bTnWCAwEQBJFLNgIoPXQSAtX8248MRav_KkYofx-VTvNM8DMWhza0Tfgrh5CptAswMzuZTl-s5P8oEWg-lhZZRI56Fzb4D1pJ21AloabCCapUdGwQ8NT77uHxhMJPwI1pbqspnl1BXuh4X8JWLxjZN7_KCHueVvEPj5b8vjtRXmeViK7MsuEksWG2q4Xq-2ucLn5UOvJJ92uLyNrxrIhtnw0h25FE9aSjAK3NnDIDZagZujKhn_rr5VHsg1qGQumUTJ2PcxqjoGfgyzeapi7LlEZ1HEEO0nXyDISEyOmB-BGALOs4ayLQdcpiPFIAqYS7gyaNTVeuZJZgCHb_y6h2N64FMJdgLjaS6qjrxD75LQ8FgySLP7z9ONLRv2=w1074-h1906-no)
tank, new color has way less orange peel. If it dries like this it might still require a little bit of blocking but not much and only 1500 grit or 2000. Then buff and be done.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HZaTSnjIsRwHdATsXnc5l3ysDz7JIc8qal2VxH87ols7iWcXBxV68DnQHrn6oKWEcWeQY8yFnewupt22VWsvNyNQi5RWnEGq1n6GzQWDAtQb_neKJXOn1mYUmHsPuebcM2oymFeudKR4oCtpDkFhERzrvp0zJIAXNguS1gvYlyqN0zpJPtk1XCKofTYfYtbZA8udHpRyi29VrtFIjNsnCa0twT2bDM1OGu01m7pfmvI_qCXsj9WoUehsP4mvFc7UDUKyqNGpk3hM-GC8v0NIQ0LZnzW4akm5wnYyBVLgh72phZ4yw9nkHAEHiS8iwYFEVb7nvoYm3c5_d4ZG1rn8s2fuxcnq2yq5cCzu7TV_eM7UMqBs74aZzVd2RAyNDqK-f1f15JAy63qlSxvfheUZZsXMeu7520F7wPZEbsZOdwBFvO1PLHCurM2huwQJ8LOjmcHuScyJaF26-w3orwVl6xvAQqtxG6rnYy3DbvRL_h7-HOYxX8OWx0YyBnZ49udQCqhsv7urQwQVmDG08Bugi1mWanPNgP8HQPvi-btbKu351QgBlmS9dKZu-05uS0B9dtUceVOFFe21IQV1LmKzTelOhAuc0avCXphKKh1iyF2ivHzS=w1074-h1906-no)
Since there are two 100% coverage coats on there then as long as I don't have to get serious about blocking and compounding to get rid of peel then this should be more than enough paint and maybe I'm done painting.
Before mounting the tank I am going to re-clean the inside with Simple Green + lots of water and then try and drain it with a hand pump with the tank hanging like it is to paint so all of the liquid goes down to the "nose" of the tank, then drop a sponge in there on the end of a string and see if I can coax out the last little bits of water. Then let it hang like that in the sun for a couple of days until it's dry, dry, dry. I also need to re-shape the nose of the "E" seat (chop it down, redo the upholstery) to get it to mate up right with the "F" tank, and make up some brackets to mount the side plastics since the F tank doesn't have them. No biggie but that will be at least a week from now before that gets done. I have to have the bike back for that.
With any luck I don't have to apply any more paint to these parts.
It hurt a little bit inside for me to take a scotch brite pad to those very nicely buffed side plastics but I am glad I did it, the "cherry red" color is better. Once the sun comes out it'll really pop even more. That's a really good color.
Man, the frame, wheels, engine and everything else is going to look awfully dingy after this!
This morning I went out and blocked out the very tiny amount of orange peel on the tank and sides. Just took half an hour to do it all. I went through a light touch with 1000 grit to knock down the bulk of the orange peel, a cursory but complete sanding with 1500 grit just to dull the 1000-grit scratches, and followed with 3000-grit 3M trizact, this time a meaningful and more deliberate and complete pre-polishing job. The finish is now uniformly matte with very little orange peel. This evening I'll hand-buff with Meguiars Gold Class. Should turn out close to perfect.
The shop called, said I have slightly bent intake valves, so they have to order new ones and wait for them to come in. That's another week of delay until I get the bike back. :(
Well, that's frustrating but not so horrible since I also managed to chip the brand new gorgeous paint on my new tank and the new paint I need to touch it up doesn't arrive until next week anyway.
Next week the weather will be perfect, but no riding until probably Friday. I have to keep reminding myself that this is Central TX, the weather will be perfect for riding from now until about June. Three weeks in the shop still feels like a pretty long time.
Bent valves?
How come they only just found this?
It doesn't inspire confidence in their practices.
If I were you I would be calling them up and saying "what are the seats like?". Otherwise next week you might well be getting another call, something along the lines off.....
"Errrr.....sorry but we have just found another problem. Because the valves are bent the seats have worn so much we cant lap them in, they need to be replaced and recut, its going to take another week and cost another 150".
...and get them to check the spring lengths!
The mechanic found the issue while lapping the valves. The seats are already finished as well as the exhaust valves. They are only now finding it because they were only working on it yesterday since it was on parts hold until all of the parts came in, which they did Weds.
Fortunately everything else is done... rings, bores, cylinder gasket, etc. Just waiting on the intake valves to get the thing finished.
Oh ok :thumb:
So you have had new seats too? Wise move.
But wouldn't it have made sense to check the valves for run out before ordering any parts, particularly if they knew over a week ago there was an issue with sealing?
If they had taken this approach you wouldn't have had to wait an extra week and (probably) pay another delivery charge......right?
On the basis they have only just found it it obviously seems the possibility of a bent valve didn't occur to them when they made and gave you the initial diagnosis back on the 12th, either that or they just assumed they were all ok
.......It all kinda begs the question.......what else are they overlooking or assuming is ok :dunno_black:
Quote from: sledge on October 21, 2016, 10:28:04 AM
But wouldn't it have made sense to check the valves for run out before ordering any parts, particularly if they knew over a week ago there was an issue with sealing?
If they had taken this approach you wouldn't have had to wait an extra week and (probably) pay another delivery charge......right?
On the basis they have only just found it it obviously seems the possibility of a bent valve didn't occur to them when they made and gave you the initial diagnosis back on the 12th, either that or they just assumed they were all ok
I presume that is correct. The fact that the intake valves were heavily carbonized enough to explain the poor compression made bent valves unlikely, so they just made some assumptions and ordered parts accordingly. But it doesn't make me lose faith in their ability to do the job. It's a busy shop and they have a ton of other work in there to do, so when they wait on parts they get other customers' work done. They basically tore it down until they identified that it needed a top end rebuild then ordered the standard parts they need for a top end rebuild and set the whole thing aside until those parts were in, knowing that it was just a few hours work to get it finished once the parts were in hand.
Yeah I wouldn't mind if they had found this earlier and then I'd be picking up the bike today, but you know, it didn't happen that way.
I have a 25 year old motorcycle that I have invested about $900 in. This shop is on the hook to make it run right and I am confident they can and will. Whole purpose in me taking the bike to the shop is so I don't have to worry about all this. I just have to worry about paying the bill and then riding.
Your shop would leave me doubting on many levels as a result of this........not that it matters to you of course.
Let's hope your expectations are fully met :D
Tank is beautiful again.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fKouj0XjQVs6UDpgeAqACDscQwEHJ1AaIyGqvimE7TzvxNruhvcCIiVJD0k7Ne1j8gPKQJtHEyX4JdSHDEKJg2lYrDJ8KtIKtE_aTLymycTkikrikBxZd6n6DLbITAcutVCrWCmFQvvJ5JgT3SGYqrzN1APKdDKJqo_wxXfJG1eECanjnKuiKAz4WhDf-6Ni8gwHGlkjtL3l9fxSreeHYrwqrsSXKvktWraUQbdfCzr8Gx0BDvbSfOrNLI3R4UDMto-D9aXsB3poFmlyur-pZINoax6BlvZI7Clwfyvkcszq6wTkzxeqCj8IEL-Pm5a3sLhNXbvakMOF8556tzPiInBi6lsE7SB530GjYHOU8Y2GwHdOMh07txxZUp-Ba1j6eam5GkdN8LQH8LTXHHBzyXRYJ0ENlgA81rzHUUwXbL3nGP0xok_TaE5JRtagC3GVU-Jez9NKsUK9qsQ-vKEcLEgYYS05xZc4e03moFhETBTez9wM_x4cCZNrRL0nAsBNVlvBcQcN-2gpCWSa9bb6dHJ8PNKeMTKmkKRU2LUcN1DygdCoD3wfsJ2prPB5ghDlqbdQooMz8nGqX4TkEv-rXtmj78CafbAPlF2hbJ4JD3SPROdU=w1074-h1906-no)
Still waiting for word on the repairs.
I knew I recognized that bike from earlier in the year...!! Finally got time to search and find the thread:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=70485.msg847211#msg847211
Wish there was a way I could find something like this on my GS... just curious to know what my bike has been through before I got it. Well, I know the last owner but nothing about before her.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on October 26, 2016, 07:33:58 AM
I knew I recognized that bike from earlier in the year...!! Finally got time to search and find the thread:
Yeah I didn't want to throw the previous owner under the bus too badly by calling him out. I am not super thrilled with some of the not-so-true things he told me, but anyway, even though it didn't end well, I do believe he was legitimately trying to get the bike working right, and only inadvertently may have caused some of the issues that I have been struggling with. What can you do? In the end I am going to get what I wanted out of it, but at twice the cost and 10x the effort I had hoped for.
The paint job is not very good and the tank was very dented in ways that were difficult to repair. There are signs of filler on the tank and I assume some paint flaw or other thing is being hidden under the San Antonio skyline decal, but who knows. I'll let the next owner of the tank figure it out. I have a new one going on, and repainted sides, and then I have to repaint the fender and headlight bucket and wheels. With that and the top-end engine rebuild, it should be in mostly brilliant condition mechanically and cosmetically.
Just talked to the shop.
Another week. This is starting to get old.
Annd... a week later, I just talked to the shop again.
"A couple of days". Shop owner said the mechanic was back in town (had to leave for a week) and is actively working on my bike today, but to be sure it's ready to rock he estimated "a couple of days" to ring it out right, adjust anything that needs adjustment (carbs, idle, throttle cable, etc.).
At this point, I've been beaten down so much by this process that I just told him to keep it. I'm gonna drop off the freshly painted tank and decals. KIDDING! But I did tell them to take the time to make sure everything was 100% fixed... I mean, it's been almost a month. I can wait another couple of days if that means ensuring it's 100% absolutely fixed.
I am guessing I get it back tomorrow afternoon at the earliest, and more likely Monday. Supposed to rain all weekend anyway. And I'm going to be out of town until at least Sunday afternoon, even if it wasn't raining. So no rush, right? I mean, I already basically forgot I owned it.
I did order new LED turn signals for it, since the rear turn signals are missing and the fronts have had a lot of pavement contact. Should be here in about a month, coming from Taiwan or somewhere like that. I have some free time next week and should be able to get the tank on, decals done, seat reshaped to fit the new tank, and maybe even get around to painting the fender, front wheel and headlight. But of course I really want to ride, so I'll do paint only when there's rain in the forecast.
I got the bike home this morning. It's only 1.5 miles from the shop to my house so I only had a brief ride. We are having a week's worth of raining every day kind of weather here so I had a brief break in the rain just long enough to get the bike home without getting soaked. I'll take it out on a full on checkout ride tomorrow, weather permitting.
It was expensive, but at least in my short ride the bike runs fabulously. I did notice some interesting things. It now idles at like 1100 rpm or maybe less, and it's smooth and at no risk of stalling. It would never have done that before. Also there used to be a little touch of off-idle hesitation or very slight hint at stumbling but that's all gone. And now there's some crackling-type backfiring on decel that it never did before. I only note these things because they are often mentioned as results of carburetor work/changes/etc. but in this case the carbs were not changed at all and. Maybe poor compression or rings/valves wear can cause issues that look and feel like carburetion.
Since it is still raining today and off and on for the next couple of days I am going to pull the front wheel, fender and headlight tonight and paint them. It'll be dry enough to put together and ride tomorrow. I'll probably also swap the tank and reshape the seat, provided I can get one of the fuel caps I have to fit.
Glad to hear you got your bike back and that its running well. Be sure to post some before and after pictures with the work you're planning on doing.
Also, I believe that a small amount crackle/popping when decelerating in gear is normal, but someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah I think the crackle-n-pop on decel is probably totally normal. I am not worried at all about the way it's running.
I'll try to be better about pictures.
Now we're making progress.
Bike runs perfectly. So now it needs to start to look the part.
I mounted the new tank and repainted sides. First, reshape the seat:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ykExc1TvWVY5mQTCLjNll_l2VftL6AZwlj2iCtSadHO5fWUw-BAfqnYivjFsTfB1tKfMMTrnICfKaTNgYzHTEABT6lSENZOEqM4U8fX4Wy5nPGLUmULwvqaVj4B3LUrJ4XbLIc3uSYw0NPgBL26UdWvMh1lSqAa0-accZ9U1n9AeXmubptrKCOwrdC-2My21ldpw-yp1gVrTDnJP95jy9kPU8WoAhns9bVyNe6bnscUk-Hs-CFBNxaSy2br8vJ--02zbfo9fQHOto3Bxcxv1uI6ppN1UgssCDgTLBkGKzqTveZ46JRlHk6wJX4qPPAhZkGEXCS0Skh9HI3z5ATmxUTt3MpugfQ2rpf1-6EsDKMHgbtBRlklrWQnKOD6QS3uRtyWW7aKthe-iqD2SYkWNaCUz-G4CG-6f0BwDg_5_1JanRUDlFBo9rAhRZwwZkecBD-nXxHPc3Gav4WShGgYnV-bQLpsT5yPj9ccr3zy4dhtwQ2CREa8-7iX-hfHSJiMke_21ri_ggngzo_xpCoX-Ry-tzsHe-wQjINtm6_JdMIpTCpnVjwnUlA7xKGlq4mZYzoV86caM2HnVJzWh0a00WAttL24_SZGobN8RFlMpPykRjTeR=w1074-h1906-no)
Have to cut off that "tongue" on the seat, since it really doesn't fit right with a GS500F tank. First I just popped out the staples around the end of the seat fabric, then folded back the upholstery and foam. Marked the line to cut:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NVlt5oyDLInNfzpnrP2rtWZ-uSt6D_KZu7s7mQRUeQ7XzapqihMm3e5Ii92SUCj9UPAiHMDzZY8DRp-5s2jMIqVa92chCnoD30ewPVyKquW-GNd4Ld57JhCFx5A6cUCMenfQde0cSAI-lmZgTIW8DPzWF0AEPtNTba5SObxlu2CI-yiPCG5UrEIy_D0Bwz14G4p84LJ4JjN3OG3FUEMeXF0fx-UZhTTjF8xppXF-wczo8xf3Urq0pLznjLu42pGAvVREBJqGCSAtCdTgO8xJHEYDLMMCBxZ0GaPAAQCIyo6-SbeIptPzGK70yIcdbjJP-xyV63aYApUo5dLq4mdJjXQsZjd70lMVKlcWvWupTATJ_uGrYoSvR1mF6emJxYB_iLvvWoVCRAX6ghG1O7xWUyIcHJUUGXxizEGqWMJH_6J5WUnBa0tMa_wS5fby3lpJaoZq7KjNK5ofJ0FPCAEIaHh4kd9dtyx3dTBgSZUxZwmfZa-FSuRNNZMHnyltvu8UAnYPLtpyswpPxHk1H52CzSzUoyfFH8H59LbuEXi0wsqELEYnDIC30KDa8XLPEd-tQ2OxrTocp9tCnyX_4EpRzcOgauDrKxj9p4D82hmLQb7d_aFm=w1074-h1906-no)
I cut it off with a jig saw, then cut the excess vinyl and foam and dressed the plastic cut with a file.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ynwg8L1fAcg3PxBrtMR75FpGSqQqhenxdkCAldnYYXWl8C3Fil_UUWSa41tXJqhDm6hT4HD0glNyPiuxn4vJ9usm1wV3IXap3opdPMvVENDC7fHkD-yDE5w3aDk2ON5FZvmdmN5Qdy63OWQpon4g9IAr9dWfMEAUFKSWILpAaxDV1-z43MMQDrJXgHv-YGX10URmw0N09Z9DgEzTyZtyU0ThiBUrjFqCNtDr47Rz3OOBfLtdqso09cGrZLAlLsceKIsm9Cd2Gn3UjYK_0dzlap-FKaRBwoSRqwYpp-m093Ovw0i44mVN7poRxBlJbtLNTV6F0BTEiMThxbPLs0A1W_myoxEWqM72_U8uZ35PnRvJodvnO--ie8rqkZwepezEfca58AMVLGmgfqlSNntp_q9yZC_HiKSTMUd6XnppmWnVflqZZyX7rbdTnK3CdAT5AwpYHbbZyPSydQ6ax_hUt-lczAdXVwvFNHVRbYEPA3Xrasz7xwSr-nuPucejrPYhiwjbgB4mvzkUwnB8JFNY5vCGm-mTT-I6rzm9ruPZJfhmFzYsu_3URYJCkN0g5RE92DGg02n2EbYL1YadyqOTmhKhSBTLdTBVeXzfl2VtplcViJvf=w1074-h1906-no)
I didn't take pictures of the tucking and rolling, but the key here is to use 1/4" staples which are actually pretty uncommon, that keeps the staples from popping out the other side of the plastic seat base. I've done this kind of thing a time or two before, so it was a cinch. Given the 25 year old vinyl, it didn't stretch exactly as I had hoped so it has a wrinkle or two but it's really not bad.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/m90o3hjA_zcYk6k8pK9Hh97Ao1Mpxc2KOgT_m5J_N20qZjwl3oFSW7HPWEL2XQfcIBkC8Xx2KM1JpTFM9kcvBkrXnuJv1-K0T1LFAi5-qS_K7DxbRAiUyt9ilioRpBUuJw8eQ1oY7MPlVbgsEylfnV-t2alxhrM9hCvXdXOOcGxVlRlKxQ8-XPFctZoiD-FtoJ1Khn0tBDpAqir3NSNhe_9o7KkhqbiAnzdd8lBXZ-4Tsqu1KbXpl5j27HyKuuhOOUOapES0-6zq5axHXkc5rsq3bt6wkEF3KaU4vPPfBTYrKLBgflbpGR61a9AmDes6_NLQP9TIZebzrXoKjyi6IalA4CNlp24eY0qsJ26DDShy9PBv1vdtkcFQfY6so53HMpWAYQSsZpTixhQKW5s78sWiEEiskDS-vGrLpFfQdyykqAu_TxHNmEFQ3kcmt4jY132STODpeWAcg4K4eqm6MXlsJcX-36HBUf8nHlt4iln9p3epr82uJuMbRIfs7RT5FiNi3RUNTd2NiE5qx0IxY-txDl8kdsKu_Xm6zEQ8PRtBH0WsKIQvJETc5glULb8yZ-AY9lY7uDkeCl1ALeETjXocETA9ZdLZacV8yuBK4lnkTMQv=w1074-h1906-no)
I also mounted the shorty levers, which are not nearly as short as I expected but they are way more comfortable than the stockers.
Over the next days I will be pulling the front wheel, fender and fork brace and painting them along with the headlight bucket and hardware but I am likely to wait until I get the new turn signals in to pull that all apart, since I'll want to make sure it all goes together right and any holes that have to be drilled or filled will get fresh paint.
While the headlight etc. are apart and I put the new turn signals in, there is a lot of wiring cleanup that I need to do. Man, this thing is a huge mess. Also need to add a horn relay.
That front fender is pretty big and bold. I think I'm going to paint it black. So far I'm on the fence about gloss black or satin. Headlight bucket and hardware will likely be satin black to match turn signal stalks etc. Wheels are going to be Rustoleum "appliance epoxy" in "stainless". It kind of looks like a dark silver. Should look fine, better than that white.
Anyone have ideas on how to secure a tail bag without having to run bungee cords over the side plastics? I am not in the mood to wear my new paint.
The bike's ready to ride, which I will do today.
Sorry no process pics of the fender job. I chopped the rear inch off of the fender because it was deformed or something, sanded and painted it satin black. It's not beautiful, but it'll be functional and work fine until such time as I decide to replace it. Or not. Because really, it's fine.
I was not able to remove the fork brace to paint it while the fender was off because the bolt heads decided to strip instead of coming lose. I'll paint it, but I'll paint it with it on the bike.
Still to-do:
- Headlight ... when the new turn signals come in, swap the turn signals on both ends of the bike (currently crappy integrated signals alone in the rear) and paint the headlight bucket. I'll paint the fork brace in-situ. Thoroughly clean everything and seriously clean up the wiring when I do this job... no clutch switch, no side-stand switch, no need for a lot of this wiring.
- Fix the gauge lights, which are not only not working, but the wires are cut. But the gauges need lots of work, and I don't ride at night. I might sneak this job in with the other wiring changes.
- paint the wheels. I'll wait for a week this winter when it's just way too cold to ride since this might be a moderately big job including sandblasting and drying time, the bike won't be usable for two or three days.
Here are a couple of pictures... I think it looks quite nice and is WAY better than it was when I got it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2WnkfXCGz4Di7ZLO_UXyG9ZktoqFoUjII7VkeL-W_YezjvAUEQEbrwFlapwG4Vx5_wTeCYRDUIxerLkZ5eNCaB7dpZq1f-sFlvLsullvU7-paZLw6HFTG2GWxsiE5mSPAPoleypMJJSqKjz0TEKEOUZAliqlpZAvKTbm_tAe-8xyIVw1fyPLjNx4KvSjKdwlojbItKd4zg2K91PDumFEUGU3rKkIQG6lq7xyCSM3HNjNCWtVCmzyqSwSpmoC1Ku03IbRxbvSh2Q-XjRbktcb49aDlOdbXnQbx-M-VpUrOyTDKEGMjHxpMyESkNCUOvLwTQFg0pZpb2JlqnT7qhC7PWrGS3bEwozUI8ykVoF1XTVBz61DaRZNR6VD2-psNKB82YGEuQBj2xXRQwXCVt0NgrzyKwCZD4ba23Dnujvpc6t6RL05Ca7WL-hZrWnT2oLXuvmX-YuigxehONyfThKawJsmKsXZmB39Tk7fnQnkRk6VY1WCY-LJ7WrIld7FhNOv3yZtvXfyTdA_AukOYKL1yzsqiIMPsG7UgPxdySH7KYbrn9wDq1RmMiD5nL8cogEi965Vfu8D5q2ttCVvxOeozVQ9TQ0HhCytHjKAtePtkqMO-Inp=w3288-h1850-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/S3ZfjVC8qXnzeDZVztdL5xi8aAHkuTEvzCo9StdwiGmLt9uo2PJAuKnMl8W0OxxRVTvMXzpoSdABEYIs49pinTzOYrcsB1qO-6Z9kTnPIbBIFIs-LT6RLbFPy5DzUBAmlhSrklfJSMqRAyT5brkIkwtG_PQADvF1ewOcnr4YpmpOVdy6Cj88LTp60atFg5hk_7Exw-RXdiATI-YrPL8K8Ua6yyJYllp9l7wlcvRFMXLc75rVG7nLgIedlGRcO-JEMMalLSOPju-n-aPVgSlkipl0va1ubtE6ZwXTy-ysvgXA_gcaMtAv-ZcDW3mplAnWmicV2COYS0eUeDVmwuRdJO7sAZjta0oknAVKpNZ_sM8d9xrdNEasGiJ4yhQTFWnTOAdZ-at4mJZvxw7NBTfwPnwtB-EcBuCHK-GSESNiWhCR-B5iOrNI-Ath4m4yGDSOuCVAuPT7dNAIB4gNCyAK4BE8lrguyYs0ZtBm7n1jvZWUlVwpxh48vrkwvAfQewBVVc5ZfJRb3EqbnI50FsxMiTira1IyTPLHNX6ZlXM5RF3YoOCmX4p7o1ozr-KrbG-OGRoKWJscCUxYAJMYiqnEh1HF0Xk1eCZ6JBO31EUlkdkGdgEx=w3288-h1850-no)
Dang!!! Really wanna see the pics but I can't... and it doesn't make sense cuz now I *can* see the pics in your for sale thread!!
Computers :cookoo:
I updated the photo links. Can you see them now?
I sure can!! Thank you!! From what I can see, ya did a pretty tidy job trimming the seat to work with the newer tank. I love the newer tanks, every time I see one on an older GS it makes me want one more and more lol....
What do you have goin' on with the heel guard in the first pic? (Sorry if I missed it in the thread somewhere).
Must be awesome to finally be able to ride it!!
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on November 12, 2016, 11:21:43 AM
I sure can!! Thank you!! From what I can see, ya did a pretty tidy job trimming the seat to work with the newer tank.
Thanks! I'm quite pleased with it.
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What do you have goin' on with the heel guard in the first pic?
Was like that when I got it. I need to pick up an original.
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Must be awesome to finally be able to ride it!!
Yep. Put nearly 100 miles on it in two days.
Nice work Josh! That red paint job looks great. Really clean bike.
BTW, the last set of pics are fine, but the section above concerning your seat etc still seems to have broken photo links. I wanna see what you did! :technical:
Thanks, endo. I'll try and fix the links.
Problem is with Google photos, or more accurately, my inability to correctly use Google photos.
After about 150 miles of riding over three days I discovered some reasonably obvious things:
1. I need to basically do a nearly complete electrical overhaul. I need a horn relay, need gauge lights (there's just a wire hanging out going nowhere), wire up the new turn signals when they get in, and clean up the giant mess the PO made when he hacked out the clutch switch, side stand switch, and put in LED tail light.
2. I slide downhill on the seat pretty regularly and wind up always having to push myself back off the tank. Maybe this 25 year old upholstery really needs help, even though it's not torn up at all.
3. An hour in this seat is all I can really stand. I'm open to ideas of making it more comfortable. I'd love to have a way to move the footpegs down an inch and potentially forward a little.
Finished painting the wheels yesterday, and put the Katana 600 shock in. I plan to cut down the fork springs and change the fork oil soon, maybe this weekend, and if so I'll try to post pictures of the process.
One thing: I had read that you have to loosen the airbox to swap the shock... not absolutely true. I got the shock swapped with the airbox in place. It did help to have the rear wheel off though.
I'll post up pictures after I get the headlight painted and the new turn signals installed, if they ever arrive. Then the cosmetic work will be complete. Probably get that done over the holiday weekend.
Raining this morning, so instead of riding I repaired the faulty charging system (melted plug) and stiffened the front suspension. Still need to change the fork oil but I didn't have enough of the right weight oil here today.
If you cut your fork springs, wouldn't that make things more bouncy instead of stiffening it up?
Quote from: Endopotential on November 25, 2016, 11:45:58 AM
If you cut your fork springs, wouldn't that make things more bouncy instead of stiffening it up?
I guess it depends on what you mean by more bouncy. Cutting coils from a spring makes it stiffer. Too stiff springs with inadequate damping is often bouncy. That's why I need to change the fork oil.
Rode around a little bit yesterday on the stiffened fork. Nothing to complain about. Very predictable and comfortable. It felt mostly the same only no more excessive dive or bottoming over speed bumps in parking lots. I didn't do this for high-speed handling, since I really don't do much high-speed handling.
The LED turn signals came in, and they're tiny! Which is probably cool. But they won't come on with the stock flasher so I am going to try a solid-state flasher and this morning I'll do the long-awaited cleanup of the wiring and I might paint the headlight while I am at it. While fiddling with the headlight yesterday I removed the tabs on the back of the headlight that seemed intended to align it but wound up forcing the headlight to be forever crooked, and now it is installed straight up and down.
Also got some silver header paint. But I want to ride this weekend rather than waiting for paint to dry so I'll probably wait until Sunday night or Monday morning to pull the exhaust and paint it.
Got a $12 flasher to work with the LED turn signals, easy peasy. Had to modify the stock connector and add a ground wire. Did some major wiring cleanup while I was in there, and also made a mod to the LED tail light circuit to make the tail lights dimmer (like a normal taillight) so now the brake light is much more noticeable. It was all but invisible before.
Found an oil leak on the clutch side engine cover, ordered a new gasket. Bike needs an oil change anyway. With any luck that part arrives on Saturday and I can swap it.
Speaking of oil changes, I got some 15W oil for the fork. Another 100 or so miles on the stiffened fork with the old oil in it confirms just how much better the bike rides with the uprated suspension. I can only imagine it will get even better with a fork oil change. No more bottoming when coming up my driveway!
I know I keep promising pictures but I still have paint work to do before I'm willing to take any more pictures. Forecast is for perfect weather all week and rain on the weekend so I may wait until the weekend to do the paint. Hate to miss a chance to ride because parts are off the bike with paint waiting to dry.
Over the weekend I did some work on the GS. It was raining all weekend so I couldn't ride it at all.
Painted the fork brace and headlight bucket+bracket, cleaned up all of the wiring inside the headlight including new wiring looms and sorting it out so it wasn't too insane to cram back in the headlight. Painted the header with silver VHT flameproof paint.
Could not get the rear two fender bolts in with the front wheel on the bike. What a freakin' pain! Getting the front wheel on and off is no picnic.
I also changed the fork oil. That was unpleasant. Worst? I have to do it again, because I don't think I have the fork oil level right. I am pretty sure I have too little oil. I hate doing that job. But since I am going to have to do it again, I might as well hang the front end of the bike from the garage ceiling, pull the front wheel and do the fender bolts and then I can take both fork caps off and pull the spring/spacer setup out and compress each fork leg and verify the level. I'll just get it done. I just hate putting that front wheel back on. That's no picnic getting the spacer to stay on.
While I had the header off I drained the oil and changed the oil filter. Then I proceeded to the next project which is to replace the gasket on the clutch-engine crankcase (right side) since the old one was leaking quite a lot. So far I am probably three hours into that job and the bike is still apart. Getting the old gasket material off of the 25-year-old engine casing is being quite a challenge. I went through an entire $11 bottle of Permatex gasket remover which did absolutely nothing and wore out two razor blades so far. I also tried 91% isopropyl alcohol, acetone, MEK, Brakleen and every other solvent I could find in my garage to loosen that petrified paper gasket, all with basically no effect. Actually the alcohol and acetone are among the best. I don't want to resort to oven cleaner because I know that'll screw up the paint. I left it to sit all day with the last of the Permatex useless stuff on it in hopes it will be more inclined to be cleaned up later tonight. I hate leaving it apart. I am beginning to regret taking this job on. I should have just lived with the oil leak.
The good news is that once I get the bike back together from this current surgery, and re-check the fork oil level, it will basically be "done". I mean, all cosmetic/paint work done, all mechanical work done, all necessary repairs and mods done. Everything will be finished except for riding. One of these days I'll get a new/used left heel guard but from a project perspective, I really am closing in on complete.
And the bike is wholly transformed compared to the shape it was in when I got it.
Awesome! I'm a little jealous, I won't be riding for a while. Glad it's almost ready for you to enjoy man! :thumb:
O0
You got pictures sorted yet?
Got the bike back together.
BTW, getting the nuts on the fender bolts with the wheel in place is totally doable and easy with the right tools: a pair of long hemostats, a pen light, and the necessary allen wrench. Wedge the pen light under the fender so you can see what you are doing under the fender. Put the screw through the hole in the fender brace so you an see it sticking out inside the fender. Clamp the nut in your hemostats and look up under the fender and you can position the nut on the end of the protruding bolt, with your other hand, hand-tighten the bolt into the nut and then tighten with an allen wrench. You get the idea. Works great. I wish I had done this first rather than the long 1/4" socket extension and 8mm socket and universal joint method which worked only for the front bolts with a ton of effort but totally didn't work for the rear.
Anyway, I got that done, also got the new clutch cover gasket installed. Getting the old gasket off was non-trivial. I first tried just using a razor blade scraping tool and whatever solvents I had around, including acetone and MEK and Goof Off (which I think is made of acetone and MEK, mostly) and even mineral spirits with pretty much zero success. So I went out and bought a can of the way overpriced Permatex gasket remover, and followed the instructions to a "T". Applied it, let sit 15-30 minutes, try to scrape off. No dice. I did this about ten times until I had used up nearly all of the Permatex stuff and finally decided to put one last coat, the very last bit of the stuff I had, and let it sit overnight. That did the trick. Gasket peeled right off with minimal effort after soaking in the Permatex solvent for >12 hours. Next up I cleaned up the cover and installed the new gasket with a thin film of Permatex ultra black on the cover side just to hold the gasket on it in the event I have to remove it ever again.
While torquing the bolts, you guessed it: one snapped off. Awesome! I'm going to ride it and see if it leaks, and if it doesn't (leak much), then I will leave the bolt extraction and replacement job for some future time when I am not so busy. But my guess is it's going to leak, and leak a lot, forcing me to deal with the bolt extraction sooner rather than later. I mean, has anything gone smoothly on this project?
Between weather and other schedule problems, for the past two weeks I hadn't been able to ride until yesterday. Since the last time I rode, I painted the headlight and fork hardware, cleaned up the wiring, replaced the clutch side crankcase gasket along with an oil change and changed the fork oil.
Good news: even though I snapped off a bolt when putting the crankcase back together after replacing the gasket, it doesn't leak. So I will put off the bolt extraction until the next oil change, when I can pull the cover back off. I am guessing that'll be a year from now.
One thing I noticed after the fork oil change is that for the first little while when I started riding, I initially kept thinking my front tire was low. I think the small bump sensitivity is hugely improved, and it feels like the fork is softer than before even though the springs didn't change. My suspicion is that the fork "oil" level was high before, due to one of two things: one I added a PVC spacer to take up the lost length of the spring after cutting it, so the air volume was probably somewhat less (the PVC spacer has more volume than the spring it replaces), and two the oil in the left fork was obviously contaminated with something, most likely water, which means the volume may have been higher than it should have been. In any case, the new fork oil, correctly set level, cut springs with spacers, etc. results in a firm, controlled, but still plush and comfortable ride. :thumb:
Here are some pictures :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JTRcqECJdgPAYct_YguqyUnPPMfgP8XdHvykw6Z_YcdMWjtG39Y3c6Gyzs-aFwpoAduE_VRlXyaoKz2pvt3BZGPDptWr_zLqh9UMWYISnch4s2ZMYl1cKL8S51Xm7Z-laVPuL9U8kiVWMk94IQA4Y4dtWgV94xCA-CM3SIKuDuwfJy46C6JWWOC80wfIjNe7ASwMgrJi2G7iuBrnTl_cbP4Ic-fE7Zcf5Gsa2r5IAlvwq9zCWjS9AAoA2bM9Ep9RlkP9y6oldiQrpuK9xutuUusR3WUpXR9qMZpfOgnMncBkMt8mKpPmlgQG-TxPi9gGd67qnSPrU7i93ybQ_YpQpTi110ny-q1mevZHm_z3NYDw0jV5O2EmoGex6WGz1VCAEPfMPclciuLLKgRhGWtHISuswLB97g-cABI35WI7_KhIoQr3H7sH4gE3nNyW6v36GKGlEDSeHuwSnBZdviaPgQOthN5xLVk6ruJ8XFYU8fq6x-7Uo7BszghIL4u_mybIXvOb7WSDgXgiosrcE_teJ6Rn-MN2IOvHPp07_wXKOLQnhr28gh9O-3ExRsFtINy_vZZ7KzGmKlddaV9574LpfK5vf79T1mlH3UIX8pyDxtZm_SB-NbV99nDJuEkk4n4Pg2ANlAPDucNrsE453MPzAv26FekN1ftISUtQh-o3xg=w3288-h1850-no)
Just parked on the street in front of my house. Gives an idea of how the wheel paint works in the overall look.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ljtywkINiXAFXFcXWDWb6r-OQ1sOPWrSf5vpRYwSixwutPl01Vowv274VR19B8rqxmrkyitvEaSI9XDGPuckaHDZsJD64S0ZqWs9B7vGCIGVHBuTEXz-5qSiQbnvoH95MrWQHpP5ul6Kkeo0xsZZFz6S_hHWKZoyD63wSZ0_NdoNY-0Qa4vLfTVXX6vA_jNVf_8DLpKZslPyQpn-nxqacwUa9HcxorvCzXSmE_GKLpHWpbgTv9RR9cu--Q8VfePVY0O6Lr_NrI2EbjSNX7Qsow_9NJdDdhh5CB0-9xiNdl0lmBJh0RiLw6dC619gvqI5hIi02TSuE7CEbyWPB7WaJzUf-2CSrrT_FHI9W5PvxXCI8w_EyQ1OMxzq6XXv2Uqx4xbUBNT_umnXbXiFb3NNt1EFZ84_HlCv_Q3Hz39rUVjstIzdUDw5BWezmM94fgAnpmbK1fOc058vFQd7FSBx3-PAR0Myy0xQl7Owz2VS_UzItI34iKE8qRzUOgixGE3eM_lhS199BOtei8eL0rPWIuJcKxqZsl9qBlXMEAFdjuaaWCBhz4vr-MNAczwTqxSaqVqo1B8w6RFxO_XFDWwe4sZnBOzTJtgs548tz4zByJRCx7Me_IYoYMK2bgoulfJkoVZsB7R30yk_KOmDKThbTohD3e3CYbeqo8v3SLXUXw=w3288-h1850-no)
Fork brace, headlight bucket and brackets, wheels all painted with the same Rustoleum "Appliance Epoxy" stainless steel color.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Rn3gzQXLNm9r4zhB1vCiW5_FlziBo4boxS7yzrkj5uecjMW4TnA8luHCRXSqGSPlP7MJlFNTrnRg91FhfJKQIzroNy49yxknFngHBYoU-hzOHNsw2dxZ0IjDXoANERyR8ATZ-TW4KE8IlaZ88MfrYyd-T_gmrBQPaQkqpjNBWTZN1IcSdeS_WA3KwVI2BfMB97wr_v5NueGqJeyc1jYXyws0_QRJn4lDkHeaK1iv6AU54St_4hLmDKvUThEpiNI86EJjQG-dbb2nw_KLD_axCSdVjQKYn8EJdXUujx4P3-w1glrtaoj0ChtuUMLtZs5cW-JtOUMajr3DysgmOnSA87Tk7hZJ5yh9QNvnnOmH4JDKgB9Pcn06uxNOIOCT7F_OKS2ZOHD7RTGVD971G_1jN1aLKGPM0G9lmH5wc4emDKrsIeDfaFB1sjSEMPPsIjdies89iOJwJu6V5F_lUlZouluLJ5dWiYOvrFqgRjuXmgjAoE_pTPGoR0f4A_-K13FmnS6aLVCudC1i-MrONc2wfaciVD5BhB-Y_HcBhi4kJ2qa1AI1cCpn5xN_dN24IPhA7dkiYtp878Fng4wL4WRSLwNEoVgXkS__32p5Pfyha-zTlurPCMyFaah4z4vpvpVWBGC8ln2gy5G51O1SlX52MbMDT7FvdZvbjBpYtpWyKQ=w1074-h1906-no)
Kinda shows the colors working together, plus you can see how the silver paint works on the exhaust. I was worried it would look awful, but I think it looks fine.
Everything is solid on the bike now. The cosmetics are mostly sorted, enough that it now looks like a well cared for but aging Japanese motorcycle, rather than kind of a basketcase as it started. And the functionality, performance and reliability are 100%. Everything works all the time without issues. I did 25 miles of short errand trips in suburban Christmas shopping traffic yesterday and it was a gem all the way, never a single hiccup and no remnant of any of the issues it had previously.
This is all thanks in large part to the input, advice, and gracious help I have been given on this forum. :cheers:
Looks good! :thumb: Congratulations on getting it this far :cheers:
O0
Looks awesome Josh!
So much more satisfying to ride a bike that you've nurtured back into shape yourself :cheers:
I knew it wouldn't last long.
After getting everything sorted and only getting to ride my bike a little, a giant winter storm blew in last night and my bike, parked on the curb, was BLOWN over.
So now I have to replace broken stuff. Brake lever, maybe the master cylinder, haven't checked the handlebar but it probably is straight, engine cover is likely scratched and beaten, and the Yoshimura muffler is crunched really bad. It was already dented but now it's pretty flat. Fortunately it took most of the abuse.
That is gutting dude. Sorry to hear man, I'm so disappointed for you!
O0
Ahhh wtf mother nature, seriously!!! So sorry to hear :icon_sad: Lord knows I've replaced my share of levers, side covers and even the muffler...
...but on the bright side now you can go shopping and pick out an awesome muffler that you really want to have! Vehicles are never done :icon_rolleyes:
Thanks for the sentiment.
I had just a few minutes to go out and assess the damage, and I managed to fix the brake MC/lever/clamp with stuff I had onhand. The almost-brand-new brake lever now has a nice scuff on the end but it's not bent or broken.
The muffler was far from perfect before. This isn't the first time it's been on the ground. But the damage is much worse now than before. For the time being I'll just straighten the clamp and pull some dents out of the muffler so it's approximately round. Eventually, like after Christmas, I may consider either replacing it or maybe doing a chop, since I can cut off about 7-8" of the can and get rid of most of the damage. But I have too many other projects on my plate right now to do anything besides "make it work". The damage is basically cosmetic.
I "repaired" it, rode it around on errands yesterday and then rode to work today.
For whatever reason now the throttle plastic assy (switch housing) won't tighten onto the handlebar. I think the threads internally are stripped? Need to take it apart and examine. For now I blue-loctited it to the bar. I think some JB Weld and an M8 tap may be on the agenda.
The muffler looks bad but works fine. After riding it with the helmet screen down (tomorrow is the first day of winter, after all) it is clear that I can definitely stand for it to be louder, so I will go ahead with the chop and not worry with trying to straighten the can. After Christmas.
it might be cracked on the inside, but I'd assume it's stripped first. A helicoil might be an option?
Chris
O0
It's plastic ... not sure a helicoil is going to help or be worth it. But I can easily fill the hole with JB Weld and re-drill, use a sheet metal screw or re-tap it and it'll hold the original screw.
For now blue loctite is working. I have two more days I can ride and then three days of rain starting Friday thru Christmas. I'll probably try and make these repairs on Friday and then get it back together after Christmas.
Took a break from building my deck and chopped the yoshimura muffler to get rid of the dented portion. Turned out I needed to cut off 7.25 inches to make it just about 13 inches overall. It looks a lot better without the oversized muffler. I used a sawzall with a metal cutting blade and it worked well. Hardest part was getting the end cap back on since the shape of the can was somewhat deformed and had to be coaxed to fit.
I was worried it would be too loud, and it is. But it's not very much louder than before. Mostly you hear the crackling on deceleration much more, but otherwise its only slightly louder than before. It was borderline too loud before and now it's over the limit. I ordered a dB killer / silencer for it for $5 from China so sometime before mid-march I should get that and see how it does.
I have been working on a lot of things besides the ol' GS over the past few months and riding the GS a lot instead of wrenching.
The good news is: the bike is turning out to be quite reliable and very usable. I'm more than happy with it.
When it gets too hot to ride in a few months I'll probably embark on some projects again. I have a moderate to severe oil leak (liquid oil on my right shoe after riding) that needs a quick remedy. I am almost positive it's due to the broken crankcase bolt, so that's going to be a chore to fix. I replaced the handlebar with an aluminum KX-HI bend bar that I like a lot, and I put Oury grips on it. Good times all around.
I also want to redo the seat somehow, either by replacing it with an alternate, fabbing up my own seat, or doing serious surgery to the stock seat. The problem is the nose of the seat is too low so I wind up sliding forward constantly. I actually want a taller seat height anyway so I need to do something to make the seat itself more level by raising the nose of it somehow and since I likely will never ride 2-up on this bike I may sacrifice the pillion in favor of a more stable platform for my tail bag. It looks like a custom seat is the best choice.
While hacking on the seat I may also try to do something whereby I can get away without the tail and side plastics. I want to flip the rear fender so it's a more curved/old-school fender and mount the tail light (or a tail light) directly on the fender, re-mount the license plate somewhere else, etc. Kind of going for more of the look and feel like a Scrambler Classic for the seat/fender/taillights/license plate:
(http://scramblerducati.com/immagini/desktop/classic/classic-dett-1_en.png)
This will require me to fab up something to cover the sides where the reg/rect is along with the ingiter and starter relay, side of the airbox etc.
Dunno what happened with the picture in the last post.
But anyway, the ol' GS is coming under the knife again. I have racked up about 1500 miles on it now and have learned a lot of things.
- The Kat600 rear shock raises the rear of the bike too much. This screws the geometry and makes it less than comfortable. I think this is even the main cause of me sliding forward on the seat. I think I will switch back to the OEM shock and see if that helps or not. It's a drag because I really like the performance of that shock. It just needs to be a little bit shorter. Or I need lowering links.
- I had to replace the front tire, wound up with a Pirelli Sport Demon. Day and night difference. Way better than the Shinko 740 that was on there. And a lot less worn out.
- I am finding I really don't like the tail bag that much. It has upsides and downsides. I think I'd far rather have the ability to use a side case or even fab up some kind of top case. I may try to get the rack that the PO made work as a base for mounting side cases/panniers.
- The oil leaks are too much for me to handle any more. I have Saturday to myself this weekend so I'm going to dive in and try to extract that broken bolt on the side cover and see about getting it in a non-leaking state. Hopefully the gasket will come loose without scraping since it's almost new, only been about 1200 miles or so since it was installed. It's also leaking like a sieve from the valve cover, so I will reseal that guy in hopes it goes away.
- Also this weekend I may try to remedy that seat, which is just not comfortable for >1 hr. I may just pull the cover and foam off and craft a new foam pad from some closed-cell foam and a dremel drum sander and make a new cover from some marine vinyl I have onhand. Truth is I think if I can get the ride height back to normal the stock seat might be OK.
Sounds awesome mr72!! Lowering links are pretty inexpensive if you find that's the route you want to go. And +1 for new tires making a nice difference!!!
Looking forward to seeing what ya do :cheers:
Can you try that pic again? I'd really like to see it! Thanks!
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on May 17, 2017, 12:24:10 PM
Lowering links are pretty inexpensive if you find that's the route you want to go.
Yeah, and I think it is. There is even a company that makes them right here in Central TX, and they are cheap.
I really should order some. Probably will once I get the oil leaks sorted this weekend.
Ok.
The good news:.seat comfort improved, oil leak fixed. Broken bolt fixed. Bike's in great shape and all is well.
The story: today I decided to sort out my oil leak and not a moment too soon. Some oil was on the top of the cylinders and it was leaking around the bottom of the crankcase on both sides making the pegs slick and my shoes a mess. When I tried to fix this before I thought the leak was the clutch cover, so I pulled it and replaced the gasket. That's when I snapped a bolt so I assumed, likely incorrectly, that the broken bolt was causing at least part of the oil leak. I also guessed, definitely incorrectly, that the top end leak was due to a bar or leaking valve cover gasket. So I tore it down this morning to fix it.
First project was pulling the clutch cover to extract the broken bolt. Miraculously, it came right out easily. A little nib of bolt about 1/8" long was left and vise grips pulled it right out. Wasn't even tight. So that was an easy fix. I had scheduled my entire Saturday to get this done and it took less than half an hour including draining the oil and pulling the cover.
Next was the valve cover gasket. I pulled the tank and immediately found the problem. The mechanic who did my top end rebuild didn't bother to put the bolts back in on the timing chain cover. I mean the bolts were there but not even finger tight. I didn't even bother checking the valve cover gasket. Just torqued the timing chain cover and then cleaned everything really well and put it back together.
Since that work went so smoothly I moved to the shock. Plan was to try to put the original spring on the kat600 shock. I pulled the shock off and discovered the preload was on 7. I backed it to 1 and put it back on.
Next was the seat. I added some closed cell foam to the nose of the seat and fastened the cover back. Looks bad but it feels great. I think my next move here is going to be re-covering the seat with these modifications do I can get a cover that fits correctly, and I'll probably add a thin layer of closed-cell foam and some poly batting to smooth things out when I do that. I have plenty of vinyl to use to re-cover the seat. I might even try my hand at sewing to make it look a bit more "pro".
Did a grocery trip and no leaks. Seat way more comfortable. Bike rides way better. A lot of win today.
EDIT:
After letting it sit overnight I had a dime-size drop of oil on the garage floor. I am pretty sure the leak is coming from the crank seal that is underneath the signal generator. I think I can live with this until the next oil change, then I'll fix it.
I rode out this morning to get donuts for the fam and noticed that the rear end of the bike still sits a hair too high for my tastes. I think I'll take the plunge on a pair of adjustable lowering links and see if I can knock it down an inch (back to stock, basically). But it's so much better than before now. I only slide forward on the seat when braking. Once I'm cruising everything is great. Just a little more and it will be pretty much perfect.
Oh, and I did modify my rack (the crummy one the PO made) so it doesn't obstruct the brake light and put it on the bike. I hooked my tail bag onto the rack. I kind of like it there, way better than trying to strap it to the seat. Now this has me thinking I should build up another rack not unlike this one but made better and about 4" more forward, then consider putting a top case on. Basically I've gotten hooked on being able to get items from A->B on the bike with the tail bag, wouldn't mind something a little more secure, water resistant (just in case) and a little bigger. I need to carry things ranging from laptop size to take-out food for two. Anyway, I have a couple of sets of crutches laying around the garage that I can cut up and make into a pretty decent rack, using the existing one as a rough template. If I go that route I'll be sure and detail it here.
I have the kat750 shock and it was wicked low with lowering links. I put it back to stock height and it much more comfortable for me. There is a measurement in my thread showing stock height with the 750.
Since the katana shock has a spring rate that's about 30% higher than the stock GS shock, it sags less when loaded. So I think it still rides a bit higher. A also suspect the 'F' seat is quite different.
I cut the coils in my fork in hopes of getting it to match the spring rate of the kat shock but maybe I should just get some stiffer fork springs or put a longer spacer in to preload the fork a little more. Wish it was like a mountain bike with air springs front and rear and an adjustable seat. It would be nice to be able to tune suspension without affecting seat angle. Wonder why they don't put air shocks on more motorcycles. I guess maybe they figure most owners are not going to want to keep an eye on the air pressure and keep them pumped up? Or maybe they figure if they let the owners control this, perhaps they wind up putting way too little or too much air and have a serious safety problem? Anyway, it would be cool if there was at least an aftermarket option.
Right now my options as I see it are:
1. rework my seat myself to be just right
2. take it to a local motorcycle seat guy who's advertising on CL in my area to have them rework/recover it for me.
3. try some lowering links
4. get some stiffer fork springs
5. combination of above
I am guessing I'll try either 1 or 2 (maybe 1, then 2), and eventually 4.
If you DO decide to replace up front, I can't say enough good things about the positive experience I had with Rich and Sonic Springs.
Quote from: Suzi Q on May 22, 2017, 06:38:16 PM
If you DO decide to replace up front, I can't say enough good things about the positive experience I had with Rich and Sonic Springs.
Thanks for that. I think that's probably my next move.
Yesterday, I cracked open the seat to modify it some more. This time I decided to completely re-cover the seat since it had a couple of small tears along the edges and also I thin the sliding on it was largely due to its' being buffed smooth due to age.
I removed my previous mods and added foam UNDER the main foam at the nose of the seat to "level" the front portion of the seat. I kept cutting pieces and cramming them under there, then putting the seat back and testing until I found the best I could do that would still fit under a cover. Then I re-covered the seat with some vinyl upholstery I had laying around. Looks pretty good. Still no rides on the improved seat but in the garage it feels much better. Maybe this will get the job done.
I still think I'll need to replace the coils in the fork for something even stiffer than the cut-down stockers. According to this thread (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=46393.msg529470#msg529470) the Kat600 spring is about 23% stiffer than the stock spring. In order to get the fork spring rate to approximately match that of the rear with the Katana shock, I cut about 20% off, which being linear, should result in about a 25% increase in front spring rate. I made this choice based on two assumptions, one definitely incorrect and one questionable. Questionable is the assumption that Suzuki tuned the f/r spring rates for some kind of ideal balance under some set of circumstances, such as rider weight and rear spring preload. The incorrect assumption is that a linear increase in both front and rear by the same amount will maintain this theoretical balance. It's far more likely that Suzuki sort of parts-binned this together and it's not really close to ideal even for a certain rider weight, and it's a definite that given I am likely larger than the rider it was designed for. The weight balance is not 50/50, so an increase in rear spring rate by 23% should match with a fork spring rate increase of less than 23%. Maybe 20%? 18%? But it's not like I can make such precision "adjustments" by cutting and grinding.
Now, my seat of the pants feel tells me that the Katana 600 spring is more than 23% stiffer than the stock spring, but who knows for sure (I could measure, but I don't want to remove it again...). And also the bike feels like the front springs were on the soft side of ideal when matched with the original rear shock, most likely because rider comfort is much more evident at the hands so if Suzuki wanted to sell bikes, making a more plush front end would make it feel more comfortable on a test-ride. Sonic Springs calculator says I need 0.80kg/mm front springs which are about 35% stiffer than stock, which meshes with my theory. So I'll likely just pony up for a set of front springs and get the geometry right on the front end of the bike. I can't really cut the stock springs any more without reducing travel.
The bike is continually nickel and diming me. Or maybe it's just that I can't help but to tinker with it.
I also noticed yesterday that the valve cover area and top of the jug on the left side is wet with oil. That means the valve cover likely IS leaking. I'm going to order a new gasket. It's not hard to replace but I despise taking the %&@#*%! tank off. I suppose I should do it right and also order new fuel hoses since this is my main gripe about removing the tank, those old hoses are not very pliable so getting them on and off is a collossal PITA. Well that looks like another few hours on a Saturday of wrenching rather than riding.
Lots of rambling. Gonna rain again today so no riding.
You might also check the crush washers under the cylinder head nuts as well. They are in the same area as the cover gasket. I have a leak front left as well, and it proved to be the aforementioned washer. After doing some research, it seems as if the front left is the first one to go, and serves as a pressurized pathway for oil transfer upwards. I confirmed my leak as the washer, but I ordered the cover gasket anyway as well as 8 new washers so that I will have the gasket on hand if it goes any time soon. Partzilla was the cheapest I could find...the gasket and 8 washers, shipped was $42.
Went for a ~50 mile ride today.
Good news: the seat is better. Still not perfect but I'm no longer sliding forward. There's a chance I can live with it like this for a while.
Bad news: it's still leaking oil like a sieve. It's clearly leaking from the right side crank seal. Dripping onto my shoe and the brake lever while I ride.
Potentially horrible news: Lots of oil smoke when I first started it up. I suppose there's a chance I overfilled it when I put it all back together. Once it was warmed up and running it seemed to stop smoking, or I couldn't see it. I'm going to have to keep an eye on that. I did just have a top end rebuild done, didn't I?
Are you sure it's oil smoke and not just normal condensation burning off?
Quote from: Suzi Q on May 25, 2017, 11:07:30 AM
Are you sure it's oil smoke and not just normal condensation burning off?
Oh yeah, it was oil smoke. No doubt. But it didn't do it except for when it was first started cold. I haven't started it cold since then.
I think I probably overfilled it. When I did the bolt extraction job I put in 3.0 quarts of oil but didn't change/drain the filter and it was at the top of the dipstick markings. My guess is I am over a couple hundred mL. Probably burned it right off or leaked it by now, the way the thing is leaking. I'll double check the level before I ride it again.
Well, first the really good news. I think I may have overestimated my oil leak. I am still going to fix that one seal and replace the valve cover gasket (the parts are already on the truck). But it's hardly urgent. I went out this morning to clean off the oil so it wouldn't wind up on my foot again, and lo and behold, there was literally no wet oil at all on the bike near the spot where it was leaking before. Or anywhere! So that's good stuff right there. Could be oil pan or drain plug or something else leaking a little...? Or residual oil I didn't get fully cleaned off before.
Anyway, other great news, it rained all weekend so I built a luggage rack for my tail bag.
Here's a shot of the whole bike with the rack (BTW this shot also shows a pretty good view of my recovered seat):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yDp5vdIeIM-tYUHCsnzRITqo-xwJJ1GtgEqd7VMr8TLKG3HDaaPBBhUMDLncGbGqgvxDvDme2ADBH438u1K9pSjX4wvphzvfzTJxYiiBISggrELQ5DV1hPV-_gIoD9tMuPKd_6gisfkftcTRQDlzeIFUP3ELIcnKbc5r8KwtypkiESIrb3uq0ssREzW1r0-1BbyVQxfB18AVIVGs3iN747SaJktTT_JcABfkXdZ6dObDmL9Sh7eA7npq4DSnWW1pLyqJwGIXdtvQOby7-EEHtbmHr8ag6Tx-i1pn62CNPctAi7HxHMZmz3RvtxONO7gxaIL-PGD1kb5sFOCoZ-PiKt_5ut8Zh9rDNJJhxJlT3elub7Iu9KGEntHfqtUyyHaIWiFgUBrIHHRG005i88U1av7g20jFACQhCxOFNG5L6b4kGQw9c0msmCIN-X02FawJ7JqfLaAxh5_VdSkQEstNTznvbWPJrvKpj-0zR-OQtB98m4qMIh2PolJkFOBqQLc6pFGuJmuA0D0YzSC93ZMFpNDI0OV1EI7LYC0Jhx4YFV9Ad89J16fEtrHMIZXbx3eAG07qX1gXDKDuxB290iX91duNBduvHAYncFWupJn16DsYUhY9jwAIg7FsyWi51xxLtFKKR0wOK3uwA_Gpue-_HgsNGRMMWQOLki_8asrBpg=w782-h398-no)
Here's a more detailed pic:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hK4CSAqIUerbn_EPMHSXyZVkYkgqLCBUTzpN21CUqeetlnfPSyT1LlfPIiUBdlzmiClbjfwMOtAYtLVxR5N3sjD99GhNGyNmay2mvS0ewiJH3u8QkazD8rKjl6yj1AGPXWf6n3G9a9bFxHwcRQ9K17Bzg2q7N9kg9mKJNL9Wdwf9_lt2jvPun1__QIWG2CJ50ZyNhHvHlexVHJCaA1197cW4BLYNa0FcE-gbzPoLQrRfgEwDl8PGyAK6P6Q4bM3f0yD1moCZeYKa4xoNeczliaGhDQ8GAFa03MWjI_LyWh-3Zu9_3hO2-MFwjWMABXm63P4Jl2hhYz4ttJkwQROYJHbYYClAGg72yMtZ0B8p1hZTRYvzuHsRfCkHqs3LhpMMfEi96F0pxq5l9Yn6qQueSfbz_CHSbXL8RWLP-jDKvr-HTx7PEUTpn08nOgsNOlfx1_fa0PMJQMLF9Wr6TgMfOa4JFOQilfIWcWa7EH6nrx5q3JJHjg_wjqOwdMvwbDwMQevBUGXbDyLaPbt-H0S3aQjzD035aYO3HCKzVu7bczeNQTl5q2aL4-guZPeHqcr4kIOCdgF5LJhoROYRA7KeTGcNo6G14kZmZLKkb4eOi__L3TfVXeMXlIXQ9QstT5jdopCb4MSg_vQTGakHB95mrQGjV1Rry5VVDN-oFym9XA=w920-h517-no)
And from the rear:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/91BO7g7TnY_8keSQKoKQL_VugV0uDjI1KZDXoH9VeDiOBvslzYVdcWnLsi8Y0Sg76xVOKZRDceF_djM1Jv7KT1YB4at_BsvHy6nd9DwReMDTQu8UUTmAgkNJU8JfGxvxXWep3u_NiQU-syiM95WqwAC5fguBzYBryIveTZJAzkaRPa4gBxJXCbSphRKkd3jRUTdGer98L4TNcY-_XnbikZzANVQAD10dJPHA9_LKCj-HUgiXBvQJGh8nzR0YERq3B_rTMdcLeC0eMqGvTMdMo8f72O1whYEmIYjweg4HJknmyKGg-mORFJuRcYG22RCbOV9q8tWO6o5dPyW9YTa2abGCDnmisSOW6mHwdjaQNIUizpwz6Eq1S6gHHFwCA7GdtVIQb7DkaEeyc-VEPNfmBct9Cny-yF8Vp-ls8wnf8Hhu3iypO0NcIrsrbHmNx3R0wxXyNO5tCG6ubOY9NkR_hm21O6jwTS15THPUsm9vnIHsXG1oIi_5lZY_LqyTx7hwPG19jj1rqNzE2-H8qruT7m09xSvcUylK8Ylq-tVwCHe4g1X347HOUGI5QmlpTDZoqY2hhztiSA1zPDK5QzNJWbtKBXetyJt28VSHaiLDPkUiW6lx3XFDjdNuEssqICgfPR7KrIsvdQj3IT-z30xdVUiY1wQqCzD-G8iqSU_Plw=w572-h464-no)
So..
I started with a cheap folding luggage cart like this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Luggage-Cart-Large/17253653
I actually had it laying around the garage. I found a section that was U-shaped and the right width, about 9" across the outside, and chopped that section out so I had a pre-bent U-shaped steel tube. Whole reason I used the luggage cart was for that tube.
The little "side struts" are from a bicycle rack. I could have made them from aluminum flat stock. They are affixed to the U-shaped part with pop rivets.
There's an aluminum flat bar across the front to line up with the grab bar, and it bolts on via this cross bar to the grab bar. Pop rivets again.
The really tricky part was where to attach the cantilever struts on the rear. I wound up using a pair of off the shelf "corner braces" like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-1-2-in-Black-Corner-Brace-4-Pack-20287/204727565
That along with a handful of the right kind of washers mounted in the holes beneath the tail light on the little tail light frame/bracket is how I wound up with vertical mounting points to attach the side struts of the rack. I bolted all this on with #10 stainless screws and nylock nuts.
Next to mount the tail bag, I actually cut out a piece of ABS plastic I had to match the shape of the base of my tail bag, and then pop-riveted that to the top using conduit clamps like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-1-2-in-Electrical-Metallic-Tube-EMT-1-Hole-Straps-25-Pack-26151/100172548
In my case, the tail bag has velcro strips near the edges on the bottom, so I used adhesive velcro to make up matching velcro. The Motocentric tail bag also had straps with buckles on them to mate up to their saddle bags, so I removed their buckles and put my own buckles on there to make up straps that would hold the bag on the rack... the velcro is just for positioning, basically.
Eventually I may want to put a top case on here instead of this bag, and that's why I didn't fully customize the rack to hold this bag. I can always drill those rivets and pop the platform off and then replace it with whatever I need to mount whatever I want to mount in the future.
The rack is strong enough to hold the tail bag with my laptop or a small amount of groceries in it, the random stuff I carry. I think if I am bringing home a 12-pack of Coke Zero like I do occasionally, I might use the cargo net and bungee it to the seat ahead of the rack. But I think a 6-pack of Devil's Backbone will work just fine in the rack. Let's say it has maybe a 10 lb limit. Weak spot are those corner braces. It's a non-ideal mounting solution but I could not come up with any other way after a whole weekend of head-scratching.
Quote from: mr72 on May 30, 2017, 07:49:07 AM
Well, first the really good news. I think I may have overestimated my oil leak. I am still going to fix that one seal and replace the valve cover gasket (the parts are already on the truck). But it's hardly urgent. I went out this morning to clean off the oil so it wouldn't wind up on my foot again, and lo and behold, there was literally no wet oil at all on the bike near the spot where it was leaking before. Or anywhere! So that's good stuff right there. Could be oil pan or drain plug or something else leaking a little...? Or residual oil I didn't get fully cleaned off before.
You've checked your oil level to make sure that the leak stopping doesn't just indicate that you've simply leaked out all your oil, right? Lol.
Quote from: qcbaker on May 30, 2017, 08:10:26 AM
You've checked your oil level to make sure that the leak stopping doesn't just indicate that you've simply leaked out all your oil, right? Lol.
HA! Yeah.
And remember last time I ran the bike it smoked a ton on startup, which now I realize was that I had overfilled it. It didn't do that today, so we're good to go. It's full, mighty full at that.
Lookin' great Josh!!! :rstar:
Welp, the Amazon seller sent the wrong gasket for the valve cover. Guess I'll be putting off the oil-leak-ectomy until probably July.
In other news, I'm seriously considering hitting the ROT Rally (http://www.rotrally.com/) next weekend, maybe bringing my dad along. Wonder if we'll get laughed out of the place on our Japanese motorcycles. Maybe it's because they are so obnoxious but historically the ROT Rally seems to be a giant meetup of Harley owners & mostly wannabe "biker" types.
I got the gasket from Partzilla and it was very reasonable.
Good looking rack--goes well with the lines of the bike.
Thanks. I am very pleased with the rack. Makes the tail bag far more usable.
Since it's going to rain this weekend I'll be doing the oil leak repair tomorrow. I got side tracked on the bike projects because I had to work out some problems with my Jeep suspension instead and then had back to back weeks with conference/trade-shows for work and had literally zero spare time. Will be nice to get my hands dirty on it this week, hopefully fix the oil leaks once and for all.
I miss riding frequently but it's been high temps at or above 100 deg F in Austin for the past two weeks which sounds like a horrible time on a motorcycle.
So...
Christmas.
Some updates.
- back in October the bike began to fail to start, acting like the battery was dead, pretty much most of the time. Worked fine as long as I charged it with plug-in charger overnight, but after starting and riding (any distance) it would either not start or barely crank and get lucky. Autozone tested and told me the battery was bad (it was an AGM Scorpion of stock size). So I decided to try something new and bought a way undersized LiFePO4 battery, this one a 2aH and I think the stock battery is 8-10aH. Anyway, worked fine until it turned a little bit cold. It was always just a little bit finicky starting if it was under about 80F, causing me to have to turn on the key (and lights etc.) for 30-60 seconds before it'd crank. Bear in mind I have all LED lights, so this really wasn't drawing much current. I discovered that if it's under 50F the battery simply will not start the bike no matter what, and under 60F takes a big drawn out dance of turn on the key/lights, try and crank a little, put the bike in gear and sort of force the starter to turn (and presumably the alt) by rocking it back and forth and popping the clutch sitting still, try to crank, etc. etc. until usually it'll finally start. One time I had to jump it with a jump pack which I began carrying all the time. This battery was very expensive for what it is (more than a typical AGM) and I finally had enough and contacted the company who sold it to me asking for a refund. I have probably ridden the bike no more than 5-6 times since I bought this battery and more than half the time it's failed to correctly start the bike and twice now it's failed to start it at all. We'll see if they'll take it back.
- After nearly a year with my Motocentric tail bag, which is a Cortech knock off (identical in every way except the label), I finally swapped it for a scooter-type top case, which was a Christmas gift. I have high hopes the top case will be more to my liking because it'll hold more stuff, it has at least a rudimentary lock, and it's easily removed when not needed. Given that I use my bike to ride to work or to run errands often, I need some storage in there. Again, even though I use the motorcycle for recreation, I try to multitask and make the trip to the grocery store sort of a dual purpose recreation time rather than plain drudgery. I'll miss the lateral expandability of the tail bag which allowed me to put a 12 pack of Coke Zero in there. But other than that the top box is over 2x as big.
- Another Christmas gift I got this year is a battery tender for Lithium batteries. Why, you might ask? See the first item. I guess there's a chance I will be stuck with this LiFePO4 battery and I'll have to find a way to make it work, and a battery tender is probably minimally required. But I still think temp kills these batteries no matter what. I mean, right after mine failed to start the bike, the battery tender told me it was fully charged. So it can be fully charged and simultaneously not able to deliver enough current to turn the starter at all. Lovely. Well, I think this battery tender will work with an AGM battery too and I do like having the ability to hook up the charger without pulling off the seat. For that matter I might be able to hook my jump pack to the battery tender terminal and make the bike usable even if I am stuck with the LiFePO4 batt. Good news is, it's rarely winter in CenTX. Sub-50F is very rare.
Thanks for this info. I was thinking of getting something like your LiFePO4 and being in Houston, with almost year round riding temps, I appreciate you posting your experiences. Definitely won't be buying that battery. Too annoying,....
Quote from: cbrfxr67 on December 27, 2017, 08:08:31 AM
Thanks for this info. I was thinking of getting something like your LiFePO4 and being in Houston, with almost year round riding temps, I appreciate you posting your experiences. Definitely won't be buying that battery. Too annoying,....
Yeah I think you have basically the same weather as we do here in the ATX area, although you get a lot more rain and we get a couple days more freezing. I would think Houston would be great year-round riding as long as your calendar doesn't have July and August on it.
If it's below 60F then this LiFePO4 battery is a hassle to start the bike and below 50F it basically won't reliably start a GS500. It might work fine on a 125cc bike with 8:1 compression or a fuel-injected SV650 with a fuel pump to help warm the battery, who knows. But given the vacuum petcock, carburetors, choke-start dance, etc. you might have a little bit of longer cranking required to start a GS500 cold vs. a FI bike and a LiFePO4 is just the wrong technology for that. Of course you could probably put a 10aH battery in there and get it to work better but that's like a $200+ battery on a $1000 motorcycle, and it's not much lighter or smaller than a 6aH AGM which will work 100%.
That said, of these jokers won't take this battery back, I might just find a way to mount it way in the back of my Jeep to give extra local current to run things like my air compressor. For that matter I might make it portable along with the compressor so I can pump tires remotely. Jeep has big tires. I have a big compressor that wants to be hooked straight to the car battery. Plus this little LiFePO4 batt might run the inverter quite well. It just sucks for starting a cold motorcycle.
I wouldn't think of below 50F as "cold"... My bike has a battery basically identical to the stock one and cranks nice and hard even when its around 20F here. Maybe there's something wrong with the battery you got. Have you looked any reviews for that battery and has anyone reported similar issues?
Yeah everyone reports similar issues starting motorcycles with LiFePO4 batteries. They seem to have extraordinarily poor performance when cold. On the adventure rider forums this is common talk with guys using things like heated grips to help "wake up" the battery, especially since apparently many KTMs come from the factory with these batteries and the bikes don't have enough space to accommodate a traditional SLA or AGM battery, and of course KTMs are common among the adventure crowd.
I shipped the battery back yesterday and Amazon gave me a refund for the exorbitant $76 I paid for it. I had high hopes. I guess nothing ventured, nothing gained. In this case it only cost me some frustration and I learned something :) I ordered a replacement pretty much identical to the one I had before (Scorpion, I confirm, YT10L-A2 AGM), for a bit more than half the price of the LiFePO4.
Now I have to go undo some of my mods that I did that moved relays and the igniter into the battery tray since I am putting a huge battery back in. I'm gonna put the Scorpion battery back in since I know it'll at least start the bike 1-2 times on a full charge and now I have a (very expensive Lithium-type) battery tender so I can keep it full and at least use the bike to run to the grocery store while I am waiting on the new battery to arrive. First world problems y'all!
Here's a little more charging/battery information.
The GS500's charging system in peak condition will output up to 14.4-14.6 volts DC while the bike is running. Given the age of components, resistance in connectors and oxidized wiring can reduce this voltage substantially, not to mention wear in the stator etc. I would generally consider >14V to be healthy for a GS500 charging system.
A LiFePO4 battery has nominally 3.2V per cell so a four-cell battery (or 8 or 12 etc.) will make 12.8V nominally when charged fully. To charge the cells to 95% requires a 14V charging voltage, evenly distributed. To get 100% charge requires 14.6 volts. What this means is to get a LiFePO4 battery to charge in a GS500, you have to have the charging system operating in pretty much perfect condition all the time.
An AGM battery, like the Scorpion I had previously, is quite happy charging at 13.8v or above. It will "fast charge" with up to 14.6 volts. An average, functional GS500 charging system with ~14.0V to 14.4V which is common for one in a good state of tune will fully charge an AGM battery.
So the conclusion here is, even when discounting the temperature problems that I ran into, a LiFePO4 battery is not really compatible with a GS500 anyway because the minimum charging requirements are on the margin for what a GS500 can produce, while an AGM battery can easily be charged by the bulk of GS500 functioning charging systems.
IMHO of course.
I really like the idea of a much smaller, lighter battery. I like much more the idea of a motorcycle that'll start.
more good info! applause!
Very good info, thanks for posting this. Hopefully someone considering a battery upgrade sees this and gets steered in the right direction.
Quote from: qcbaker on January 03, 2018, 06:40:00 AM
Very good info, thanks for posting this. Hopefully someone considering a battery upgrade sees this and gets steered in the right direction.
indeed.
Aaron
To add insult to injury, once I got the battery situation all sorted, the starter went belly up. Makes me wonder if the bad battery situation led to the starter failure. I mean, if the battery cannot deliver enough current to turn the starter, then perhaps when it's stuck it leads to excess heat and oxidation in the brushes and armature. Anyway, I sanded the oxidation off of the brushes and armature, cleaned the armature gaps with the edge of a piece of plastic blister packaging that was laying around the garage and cleaned everything with compressed air and a rag, put it back together and bingo the starter is now back to 100%.
What a relief for it to be working correctly.
I was seriously tempted to buy a new motorcycle rather than hassle with these (minor) electrical issues. Guess I'm a flake. I actually just really kind of want a new bike.
Speaking of flake, I discovered the paint on the side plastics in one spot is heavily peeling/flaking. Yeah, I painted that. Guess I need to revisit it, again. At least the paint is easy to get. I needed to touch up the tank anyway.
Whatever you do regarding a new bike, keep the GS500 and stay on this forum. You provide such valuable insights.
Ducati scrambler is calling your name. And then you can join Watcher as a member of the Ducatisti and scoff at us plebs.
Quote from: qcbaker on January 09, 2018, 06:50:16 AM
Ducati scrambler is calling your name. And then you can join Watcher as a member of the Ducatisti and scoff at us plebs.
I'm quite tempted. If I didn't have a lot of college debt (for my kids) to pay off I'd be all over it. Who knows, my company IPOd in November, maybe my stock options will skyrocket and I can peel off a little extra to pick up a Duc.
Truth is, I watch CL weekly. If one pops up under 2K miles in the under-$7K range (which is a definite steal), then I'm going to jump on it. But I'm not ready to cough up $10K for a new one.
Quote from: ajensen on January 08, 2018, 05:55:06 PM
Whatever you do regarding a new bike, keep the GS500 and stay on this forum. You provide such valuable insights.
Thanks for that! I can't imagine there's any good reason to get rid of the GS500. I mean, it works most of the time, it'd provide a good backup in case whatever else I have is in repair and it's worth more to me than what I could sell it for. Plus, it's easy to repair and parts are cheap.
After many months and thousands of miles of trouble-free riding, I got bored and decided to put the GS under the knife again.
First, I finally fixed properly the tank-to-frame bracket. IDK how this is supposed to work bone stock but mine was a mess and constantly came apart. Plus the rubber gasket thing on the front where the tank rests was falling apart. So I glued the tank rubber gasket thing with Gorilla Glue, redesigned the tank bracket connection and installed hardware combination that works well and finally got that working correctly.
While I was fooling with that I took off the side/rear plastics and I decided I prefer that look and need to do something to make it work.
There really are three problem areas for appearance with the side plastics off:
1. the gap between the lower edge of the seat and the frame all around exposes wires and other unsightly stuff that I'd prefer to be at least mostly hidden
2. need to cover up the starter relay, igniter and regulator rectifier (to keep a pillion from getting a burn)
3. there is a big gap between the back edge of the seat and the tail light, plus if you take off the little "nerf bars" on the back then the tail light mount goes away
To solve #1 I plan to craft a cover from some black powder coated expanded metal (steel) mesh that is amazingly available and cheap at Home Depot sold for gutter leaf guards in about 36" x 8" size for $3 each. I bought two pieces and I'm building cardboard templates and then will cut it with snips, bend it, and use black vinyl door edge guard around the edges. I think this will look good, retaining kind of the "super naked" look I'm going for while somewhat hiding the wiring etc. under the seat.
For #2 I am going to make vintage-racer type oval number plates from ABS plastic, paint them the same dark silver that I used for the wheels and headlight bucket, and again put vinyl door edge guard around the edge as trim. I'll actually put some vinyl adhesive numbers on there. Oh, and I am going to leave the reg/rect in the same place where it is and make sure it's covered by the mesh side covers.
For #3, well I decided to relocate the tail light altogether. I cut down a pair of 90-deg steel corner braces and re-mounted the tail light using the holes from the grab-bar handle. The tail light now extends only about an inch beyond the grab-bar frame bracket. Then I had to do something about the rear fender. I removed it, cut the squared-off portion where the license plate mounts off, and then did some other mods to reshape what was the front edge so it's symmetric and then flipped the fender. I painted it the same satin black as the front fender (I can't get used to saying "mud guard") and then mounted it back up again but using a 15mm spacer so it's a little lower than before. I attached the license plate bracket to the new rear of the fender. Going to put the same door edge guard around it. I actually drilled holes and mounted the turn signals (miniature LED ones) to the sides of the fender. I'll post pics soon. This aligns the license plate with the lamp on the bottom of the tail light and removes a lot of bulk from the tail's appearance.
I also had to deal with my rack and top case, since I depend on it. I used the same mounting bolt holes from the grab bar mount that hold the tail light now to put some sort of fabricated mounts and I will add a brace so basically the plastic base of the top box (it's one that's removable from the base) sits essentially flush/flat with the rear of the seat abut 2" above the tail light. I think this will work to keep the brake light visible and also make the rear rack (no case) much lower profile than it was before (was mounted atop the grab bar).
So I have this whole job about 50% done. I need to fab up the side mesh panels and the number plates, will do that over the weekend. Need to figure out how to mount the side mesh panels and number plates but it should be easy enough using the nerf bar mount along with some of the previous side plastic holes and I'll pop-rivet a bracket here or there if I need to. Should have the whole job done by the end of the weekend and have it all together.
Provided this all goes well, next up on the project list will be to repaint the engine, hopefully with it in place, just masking (or even brush on). I think I'll use a flat file to make the fin edges silver a la Triumph.
Again, pictures and videos to come as I complete it over the weekend.
Nice to not have to repair anything. Just making it look better.
I look forward to seeing the results.
Some in-progress pictures.
Tail light mounting detail, shows how I used the corner braces to relocate the taillight:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PfWFOx-T1JRJ_1qBzN7vEoJZ2I3puTUdRQrjxrJjAWeBKGUv9R_gRnFMqyX-P-ruiFvn2hQoLpiFsrshK5TZh6tOKZ81KQpdZ-uVHh7FNNAtIZyqmZ2fc4HqPhxPNT02J1cQeOT4YmO-EkXNtBoHPf5Qbn-42dijoR8L_p0ad9aRJ8_K2-gEvWaLHyrmPnXOLlcXKD3sRk9qD2f81AJC68xeSHAUETjf-zXfJtfEqXrKv0XDTe-S4DBh5EaOOV_M33fLorBspEw8tcJ-vmrkngv4jnwmGk--c4PFQu36Dj3KkyxaoKCar-9e0dkvzsm0-F4vMpTNzV4vss7PGZ9FfZicE5WfI0Z2cLqylGRdjC_NFSNQ7ibWjdMtjhVsclsRW8TRu5Nib1N00aLCMmuaESSY8c2TIXSLOxVX-9TPvRCHOyVZvVJx-MxrHhnQJssObkU1I5K8PjY8dHF2tZIG7TAIj14Z-5bfgpHx4Ss0BMlJkj-04T9-y5G5rh2E1WT7f-E90w94IpSnJjvOMgQF7SlPrHyzW0Kcytce0pcwQkP0J8eBHq8e0Mn8PItB_hK-uutXOZsnnkAp3077FnDU6N3B2GU8axywb1GeeVE=w2184-h1906-no)
Reversed/modified fender with license plate and turn signals:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/s_fmr0wpHqJDpJHaxezZ4zkS12branUewKYr21O1sdRi9o0f2wpsbiSQQC8g3PE7zubxzlo6eLWfQO8peTBGOG8uAE3EfYoLDmmt40u-B4V-6XzxXNL6t0_XtQySpeV9DCXlM_0vKCYVC-ddRbSX_hdBP65d1ADot6fy53ZhD5rQQsghu2In8exglkBuAHmocdVmFYSUGyIRh35UrSjXB8H-lRjuLIRz4p45-3I004PpTDlWLKuEdGENdYhIrRafQTAb6jmKTl5g310djVkkmHvPtS7RwgJJywduqfDtL7htv_q55vvRPW63ong6B2K9MPOdFJ43R-8l19og-tPQcA33_v8FfBmpyNrXNlhO1Lx-VVsNvoQc-7sPeDcwkE9iqelTKlek8yvryMAP2auWhyhHCm9n4C_cwWERqkk82egMWQeS0B1l0JpfspxP14iX44YyBcv99OV2bG3AIJQSSKGugkECvwoDLqYlg9KpF5duWIoDMLS8WHqSHHAZJ8hmWXdjJdHqgmQKJTvcD42ZaIoEjNFxFHIP3FaPzFMZjh0Df3qo2c5Eqbxwh9LRoN-92ktIRfIj54w4V3lVH7VpeYpUArrEsS7YI1gx5OYSPOBw_RU9icX1KFP_0GhRYQP7eG0-0MeN4FQvNcGHTrRiqxszszQKX9Mo=w2446-h1906-no)
Rack mounted top view, connects nicely with the seat:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cB0MTSEyVpt2XU-ONaFBdSFjmtxRiGK4rzzXI18TEHT87L1FyKj4TPDohM-tq8joAbT2jBXAKwbZA0X0QyPz_mNRiATBJprA09W9gk89rMoYk4WnU3KLIpP8wbFvR-D7hhodr7PdML-EehSlNBg3Ymi65DB5I7Hzu6f77FQXqqcTHAFHjlduc6j117fc3YotBAwyA8TrDfqd9L3Z0Ze62cR-0MedWfhC0ZRlaPLFKWrKx_JVT4Tie_vGOADvvQ7V7_MCCJfjgD4vMadC5xtuwt_oMkVC4uC_09k83Nip8RlIr2OLILpbqDU49zX08H7LpNzvqWRy_9VYRv-4qWtJNHUgPqgtNlKrGWDXB5Bs7gfqHMoAjVxdFscrJoorSAOo-n_M5PybSFYFI05iWk--LbZsbiRZdBm-JKmpUUtKWQ1JkN7ZFcbL0VvvD8biOiOrU0QW2DyHN3PmIBpS7WhVyxpA9lq_jQTa_yzfAKlZeirHWNhyb7in8CVzf7qX00gRydQvq5uHlZKfcqchGkIqI2thajuFZahZoK7qiCfImlMA2j8FQhPjkG3FGY0kf8GA7fFb4f8W-uybvz7gCqPR5SDC0rnEzWtXIQCYkxg=w2542-h1908-no)
Rack mounted underside view, here you can see my tricks, using galvanized conduit clamps as mounting brackets:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6djm525IBBmlOxiQmSIJXuCc7KJAVNyBxDlYiRL5u4CjSy3Lg5IYw7y4VhgW7XLTDkjBZlDCGQXZoxEPSOUbNaKpHAPhxli-IEBd7xQ1CQymLl9xG1sQqnagZI4qgxMPXRk_-PSZYywvMkJho6Xz52fRazmq9pn14WNbrBrxrWYVdJy0-mpbwdfsx34loi05txfkz_BQEKSJDNiUDkZVH6RR2ZNExId9wydjhH0cW2Q7HOmCnDuRQJl5ONuLYpao-oKi_4CVqJ8O93ATTFVqn-zID0I-tcXkBpaQYAPzyikyA9sGiTd0Bt7bPJ_mt1HGD9VW1qyiyMG-JlVaT-wZt1ZKaCutDaMnpH5ZyRdaMcUdt1-Yvn9yAVjxfbEsFs_D2estTcuuJ6MlZFi9X36Jy5f0Fq2IhlMAD3rqTbqw6FwWh0AWROHaj1Hi58subjSh2B_HldZhm7k_vOF5grZ2-yL4uE9V3a0KvAVqOqnvl-yB60FNTMVxdT6Pv6SNZ2SIcZ8NcOH_GGoD3RDmIyq8KRB8emqamFV497dB5Ria5wNmw4J6brjOkwQKxssW2Yf4hIT4aDxK-SXhZJErGvMIlZ4P1DXGOzc6Fppbqm4=w1836-h1908-no)
View of tail (missing the rack diagonal support):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1GyC8obotYJrigxdWyrL81_Z1hkR8JFm7dl_ci5k8eU5yU13IK7atnuPAZE1x_0wJAF0N-c7WpU3JCdE0KaVFrWtU0q9Itcb4Gp61_s9c5FV12ofcskCnv4q0PtDjDmgUko_cLoC0yy-rppaOs-ySp2Jw5g_T5koxBvRcNQpTPevTW1zyfsbZJ-FNCnAqp8NRUCkGchL6I8HpTqZrYFewKtvgUPruNjmv63BdM8JEQFH1zHyDr_2Pr1zO4XwtvyFytEYQfivb5dEylilpwhZsaMMOPyWUQba6UxS_Fh9VYB2TVWpKDBvBPl_tG8aJ5-sxgCA0fnbHzyooM8bR9xkhoQc3aGHkxh07GTpYcL_dqfvGLk31kcOcCSr0-U7sTpRFwPal6LFtbvPyzwkiofNNSVZRgi0vzZMd2SxhhN_3L3SHnkIJRU2_0J4560Z9BJj7fj9Pfxb19JA3fZa8NVOiKQK-TU66YvGckmuzgeIA0PsRXbkEMxrNrwFD_GQqevbMLU3ra7SOiBcjLCcodCXXIoK7AmBeKcIGhSozO3h1qWjVYYEkMArCymg9bvnw1fltR4jLWz60wnmIHy0o04-dyhBAFrUtNHqqc-ituA=w1430-h1906-no)
I will do something to fill the gap between the lower edge of the seat and the top of the taillight even though it's basically hidden by the rack and top box.
Bike's together and rideable and usable now. Will finish up the bodywork over the weekend and get more pictures.
OK, well it's done!
Let's see... what's interesting about this?
I made the number plates from an ABS plastic document box that I had laying around. I drew up the oval that's 7" x 8.55" on Word and printed it, then used 3M Super 77 to glue the printout to the plastic panel and cut it out with a jigsaw. Painted it with Rustoleum silver paint I had laying around and then put the vinyl door edge protector over it. Test fit the spot and drilled and tapped holes with an M5 tap and mounted it up. It has a 9 on one side and a 2 on the other.
The mesh part went pretty easy. I basically held it in the spot I wanted it and marked my cuts with a silver sharpee. Cut it with snips and bent/shaped/cut/trimmed/etc until it was the shape I wanted and then hooked it up. It's attached under the seat with zip ties and I used a 1.75" long piece of tubing as a spacer and used the nerf bar mounts on the frame with a 40mm M8 bolt on each side to hold it on.
IDK what the fashion of this is, but I really dig the look of the bike like this. I like the fact that the tall pointy tail end is gone and it has much more of a super-naked look to the rear of the bike. There is no painted side panels or fairings except the number plates f you want to count that. Minimalist. I like it a lot. And I am glad I could make this work with the stock seat.
Apologies for the messy garage pics. It's just where the bike's at.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XT7O04XJp8q4yG1Fal_r35xqZx_BwuBPCQK4hX-06yhjPa_eQoI5n2kunyWnKWHeK-9XraOIfCtAgcvP7rgoIkU-RojizhcFJaeNAPNO7jWnRe5a0f1L29U4Qan2ypg6af1Y-MZAjsmScKdCt8CSxZURQYCIGl9cLCjDn6dnpcNLEKjHtkamuvFTt4W2FQQpvPcWLQgmLUMBXaY4gx-TF4QFW1kR5U5hBLkc-rDPldHWQ_cn1VdFeiimwnVlLgH6pMi33dfxevjE9zfT48_js5XzTBIUz4Fblo20bjspe0sKSzE7_fXT4o8yndRz_Ek-vgqn3m6M7SqW3dTwt2Szsd5nluxnMfzMov3qVYXSiu-XmeAOJAjT0DuW9AFv_lygLLcDTsDklTfS9Y9N90Kpz6g0Ykey7xOVd8j_s3oIsCgvRGlzmWL5hOUiNpmzzGYy_J_45eR-i9K0wjyg_EHnMT3TLDlVLgg2TetDyvH07SlWRd7Ksct5AZtWIueDWevsCCcxGtmQgowWYcEpDmJoBKvsEojGWq8VyiEfR3mmU2dRKemizJ5Z2YT_hMedZbYXsVnz6DXNkhpqBNKqvsXhgA5AumuOB9UXYP6V50gjPhcBWenaNdSaY-ZIYFUbCDqdpt4IRLIsW1FspaG5vnQ-2bCxQSZn4tIb=w2224-h1906-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2IfVonD6m_NE3DsFl6jFE4VSVS8jTkCFbvKnj4ZXkt2WBXqV1WsnjAtIh-sgey4jo2kspX6zwFLpdjQdUTrHdHJkf5YnTwzZ6uQF-kughE8SMMoStsMVvbpc8-_y9db1Ry_M6Wm5VCZU3lxHF-gmhxeXUxkJZnM500LzjUGHfrXQ2CzplGRHLRkWrTSkg8ZFwz0bfeib0LZizBDQWABZ0GC96EAFqOEOLahhWLAorRUzX4mvG2reimt8sEuQjaiCLxSpOCmkuuou-7lKeOdU45n_PsEmo3j2MeNObKVfmp8AA74jwCl5MhU6wzjMik0Ts_eAra72XpHAw_4db2Pdu-furXP9NIEDOZrVhIZkAePwW4d3R2GA1Gtamwm6zS_qaN0a16BHMWH2IGQM4Sz3C-KXKGf0XT57MriI-KuxGHYu6N4dMpg5PkrkwWOv2d4OA2AKQrrl9GNn4Yui03W0uYFpOcAzmmaDdDQsqqvkWUc_Kxi5zkMiXEWOrDwjduLEwwdxr85wvK32GKPF4v5xEwDFXqlDovwKpAroJLSn3IwWW4W2s67NzZAH8YtWWhTIdlzSkwXE8J7O8UfGj8Bmv6TxBcYyizxP3XSr16bTk-xo6jxVykl2VY0jrNGUYoer-kmweY8tINbvxaBHXZ0TyQP6-3ysA2lH=w2868-h1906-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NGA0H7xnOXvYDiN-EiatE547C9IbwqDu6U6bSuFaKMixWOe2crLWXsUvlV_XQRf_L-ITbqGl1DHeeXJmENwFv5-TaOBdtKfaPXz9tZq8SxGYS_qVxZ45JTOofSnNVr-33FAA2WYF0Eo1SeTZiLoPeN7-LXs_5JwKf3ohsqYM24DP-ikipubZBgCwMwkGCkhW1WEJbrexINW7jf1UD6b7J-59Jo2-yj_S7bKH9m0uiz1EStIfUBoab-3WuZsQAcDT82T1wclHOmVmGIQSx-cqklXIFiUYK0raAM_yWV0BJuHuaGHCydYTFCR1Ny4oHJB2zjITxpySMrdfkjfhmweb08pLioaZXxS2JtgEvn6oJcpExYF-0hA8SbBk8uggIUsmuin4eVRVo4No66v2B_wdCQ8rT91teDWTtlusE5DfA_LBZtv1ZwGl1wgHm8ttJV33w6ZScx7N22vq04gRZPO0d4zNQsB4XD-I_khiG_PiIGo1Mrf80tUB95JimLkco2bofF8u2sIto0PEavCFGfzXufOb3K4UjbPylT-u17JU3qh1yqfrTbGdKXlpiryn7Zj-JuJeIoUHUAZb6eoLjfcDTeNftOyCiEHfSrRT6cThsfzFFZB1L_MByDVSVp5xqVySBBa6XEeyktlJyrVhRAihYkLGLCC1s1Kf=w2664-h1906-no)
Idk if anyone else is having problems viewing some of the pictures but some of 'em won't show up for me :cry:
The ones I can see, however, I like! Tbh I've never been a fan of the number plates... BUT the tail with the mesh looks nice!! Vinyl door edge for the ends/edges... what an awesome idea. I may use that some day. Quite tidy and as you said, minimal. :rstar:
Also, this gal is super jealous over the larger tank you've got. Some day, that might be in my GS's future (along with the domino-effect mods that have to go along with it lol).
I think my favorite part though is how you flipped and re-used the stock inner fender. Fantastic :cheers:
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on May 19, 2018, 11:52:58 AM
Vinyl door edge for the ends/edges... what an awesome idea.
Stole that idea from the Jeep folks. They cut the abs fender flares on Jeep JKs (like mine) and finish the edges with the same vinyl door edge protector. I bought about 36 ft of it for about $9 on Amazon.
Quote
Also, this gal is super jealous over the larger tank you've got.
That turns out to have been a real winning idea. Funny thing the late model tanks are more abundant and cheaper. I think the old E bikes look better overall but the late tank looks better and of course holds more fuel.
Quote
I think my favorite part though is how you flipped and re-used the stock inner fender. Fantastic :cheers:
Again I stole that idea, this time from an Aussie YouTuber who did the same when doing his own seat and tail mod.
All in all I'm thrilled with the new look of the bike but I am considering removing the numbers. We'll see how they look in a couple of weeks.
Next up is new paint for the engine. If I'm keeping this bike for the long haul, it's going to need powder coating on the wheels and a new rear tire before too long. And 0.80kg-mm springs.
Bike looks great man, love the mesh tail. Number plate is cool too. Any reason you picked 9?
There's a 9 on one side and a 2 on the other. I will probably order smaller numbers and change them both to 92. Of course the bike's a '92 model but also that's the year I was married.
Quote from: mr72 on May 19, 2018, 11:36:01 AM
OK, well it's done!
Let's see... what's interesting about this?
I made the number plates from an ABS plastic document box that I had laying around. I drew up the oval that's 7" x 8.55" on Word and printed it, then used 3M Super 77 to glue the printout to the plastic panel and cut it out with a jigsaw. Painted it with Rustoleum silver paint I had laying around and then put the vinyl door edge protector over it. Test fit the spot and drilled and tapped holes with an M5 tap and mounted it up. It has a 9 on one side and a 2 on the other.
The mesh part went pretty easy. I basically held it in the spot I wanted it and marked my cuts with a silver sharpee. Cut it with snips and bent/shaped/cut/trimmed/etc until it was the shape I wanted and then hooked it up. It's attached under the seat with zip ties and I used a 1.75" long piece of tubing as a spacer and used the nerf bar mounts on the frame with a 40mm M8 bolt on each side to hold it on.
IDK what the fashion of this is, but I really dig the look of the bike like this. I like the fact that the tall pointy tail end is gone and it has much more of a super-naked look to the rear of the bike. There is no painted side panels or fairings except the number plates f you want to count that. Minimalist. I like it a lot. And I am glad I could make this work with the stock seat.
Apologies for the messy garage pics. It's just where the bike's at.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XT7O04XJp8q4yG1Fal_r35xqZx_BwuBPCQK4hX-06yhjPa_eQoI5n2kunyWnKWHeK-9XraOIfCtAgcvP7rgoIkU-RojizhcFJaeNAPNO7jWnRe5a0f1L29U4Qan2ypg6af1Y-MZAjsmScKdCt8CSxZURQYCIGl9cLCjDn6dnpcNLEKjHtkamuvFTt4W2FQQpvPcWLQgmLUMBXaY4gx-TF4QFW1kR5U5hBLkc-rDPldHWQ_cn1VdFeiimwnVlLgH6pMi33dfxevjE9zfT48_js5XzTBIUz4Fblo20bjspe0sKSzE7_fXT4o8yndRz_Ek-vgqn3m6M7SqW3dTwt2Szsd5nluxnMfzMov3qVYXSiu-XmeAOJAjT0DuW9AFv_lygLLcDTsDklTfS9Y9N90Kpz6g0Ykey7xOVd8j_s3oIsCgvRGlzmWL5hOUiNpmzzGYy_J_45eR-i9K0wjyg_EHnMT3TLDlVLgg2TetDyvH07SlWRd7Ksct5AZtWIueDWevsCCcxGtmQgowWYcEpDmJoBKvsEojGWq8VyiEfR3mmU2dRKemizJ5Z2YT_hMedZbYXsVnz6DXNkhpqBNKqvsXhgA5AumuOB9UXYP6V50gjPhcBWenaNdSaY-ZIYFUbCDqdpt4IRLIsW1FspaG5vnQ-2bCxQSZn4tIb=w2224-h1906-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2IfVonD6m_NE3DsFl6jFE4VSVS8jTkCFbvKnj4ZXkt2WBXqV1WsnjAtIh-sgey4jo2kspX6zwFLpdjQdUTrHdHJkf5YnTwzZ6uQF-kughE8SMMoStsMVvbpc8-_y9db1Ry_M6Wm5VCZU3lxHF-gmhxeXUxkJZnM500LzjUGHfrXQ2CzplGRHLRkWrTSkg8ZFwz0bfeib0LZizBDQWABZ0GC96EAFqOEOLahhWLAorRUzX4mvG2reimt8sEuQjaiCLxSpOCmkuuou-7lKeOdU45n_PsEmo3j2MeNObKVfmp8AA74jwCl5MhU6wzjMik0Ts_eAra72XpHAw_4db2Pdu-furXP9NIEDOZrVhIZkAePwW4d3R2GA1Gtamwm6zS_qaN0a16BHMWH2IGQM4Sz3C-KXKGf0XT57MriI-KuxGHYu6N4dMpg5PkrkwWOv2d4OA2AKQrrl9GNn4Yui03W0uYFpOcAzmmaDdDQsqqvkWUc_Kxi5zkMiXEWOrDwjduLEwwdxr85wvK32GKPF4v5xEwDFXqlDovwKpAroJLSn3IwWW4W2s67NzZAH8YtWWhTIdlzSkwXE8J7O8UfGj8Bmv6TxBcYyizxP3XSr16bTk-xo6jxVykl2VY0jrNGUYoer-kmweY8tINbvxaBHXZ0TyQP6-3ysA2lH=w2868-h1906-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NGA0H7xnOXvYDiN-EiatE547C9IbwqDu6U6bSuFaKMixWOe2crLWXsUvlV_XQRf_L-ITbqGl1DHeeXJmENwFv5-TaOBdtKfaPXz9tZq8SxGYS_qVxZ45JTOofSnNVr-33FAA2WYF0Eo1SeTZiLoPeN7-LXs_5JwKf3ohsqYM24DP-ikipubZBgCwMwkGCkhW1WEJbrexINW7jf1UD6b7J-59Jo2-yj_S7bKH9m0uiz1EStIfUBoab-3WuZsQAcDT82T1wclHOmVmGIQSx-cqklXIFiUYK0raAM_yWV0BJuHuaGHCydYTFCR1Ny4oHJB2zjITxpySMrdfkjfhmweb08pLioaZXxS2JtgEvn6oJcpExYF-0hA8SbBk8uggIUsmuin4eVRVo4No66v2B_wdCQ8rT91teDWTtlusE5DfA_LBZtv1ZwGl1wgHm8ttJV33w6ZScx7N22vq04gRZPO0d4zNQsB4XD-I_khiG_PiIGo1Mrf80tUB95JimLkco2bofF8u2sIto0PEavCFGfzXufOb3K4UjbPylT-u17JU3qh1yqfrTbGdKXlpiryn7Zj-JuJeIoUHUAZb6eoLjfcDTeNftOyCiEHfSrRT6cThsfzFFZB1L_MByDVSVp5xqVySBBa6XEeyktlJyrVhRAihYkLGLCC1s1Kf=w2664-h1906-no)
man i wanna make my 95 like that with the mesh. what kind did you use?
This is the material I used.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amerimax-Home-Products-Metal-Black-Lock-in-Gutter-Guard-6360/205207064
I think. Black powder coated expanded steel mesh about 20 ga in 8 inch by 3 ft pieces. Garage fab hacker's dream material. Would also work great for making up fiberglass parts by overlaying fiberglass on the mesh. Easily formed with a rubber mallet and blocks of 2x4.
Fwiw I ordered semi gloss black engine enamel and titanium header wrap. It's on for the weekend!
this is exactly what i've been looking for
do you think they make it in 18 gauge?
I'm guessing the gauge, didn't measure and it is not really comparable to sheet metal anyway. If you want something more specific then you'll be ordering $100 worth of unfinished expanded metal from a sheet metal shop. Finding this stuff at home Depot was a pleasant surprise.
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk
well, if it works it works. I'll pick some up when I have the chance and let you know how it goes
Some more/better pictures:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OKq2sv_2MCzicykaIFRcfzC8vyEq6qpBgNyo9SOUanuDXylT4kDI5B_vV4DKUOUfWOwiC1uCqnbas49i3JvDB6gVXMZyLBg8lfkygp0WjCzR64MQrrm4r567eDmSRsQeA3hoZf2inscKrGwPmWvVYOhBzuE6G4o3sqriLBcbdTm28Bh3sF4AzNX5Q7KnUpa4CKL1zMaGfCzwg0lREy0q8IKS-6HJKbg1nVS4gLozJ69cG70vBtpa7xximF3aglGNSU1xiigS89OZ4u326mrA9-0HBHY7wthiCh22tJXfqQ7ksCxNZ79EBcDhkjme89n4U79MYCtFQbaT-rdkcl0QuE38Jie_6hgVYI4z6BDg6mnmZaamBvd2Tck509mPFJchu0rh5uklsouFKVnv68GoG8Nw2uN11VtYrLUz_tSJiWVCqbzarprTE2x7TunBpu-G-HOSAG7UadM9MJGBRdUZeb1taqgA9r0YzdSx1814b9dQN3LoqxYDxpLQf2_43Ff5eVrwAuIfXqjh37nCu2bwQhdUQq15axXwhexMb60DjIo0EFgl6rGbOmgoGzb7ezF84UH_jh3J7MARlNCwwgGHfFBmtJsdE-htsxZupk_cwo_Cb6aRRW0ODWX0zdTjJ0idD8j0S3Rih1N1TUIQuCDTqTU-_wzvaMcm=w2542-h1908-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tLS5_4CW-oewqdtOdCzWJ63_SpmJCnU3lZQy8b_qC5vwHOtNhvvRrT6MUHP3qHf50qlC76chVu6icc-BMJoxzZgcJ5HOKFxOkO6u3kaA3ujNw6r2gHAuaQPVev-FknAbIXNDF_qn5bovsr9dBJ_PGN7eO-8u1POW2tZNpz1PztgTaJLwmdXnUOmo4fMWur7llXK-LTOAgR61bmAAgaoFZA2mdub2Kzbwgm9LoDbRwXdLed5YSyAr-tJosYpAoLZHbru6jM2xfwur3oWRK5q-SVQkMo3NIZzWhGggPB0Dp70f18oKW1TSL9U1Iu1-No5KfakKvMf-b-fUME4BpgHBBWAx3iEKs0sp6S9VOrTv2cBnYP22FWdcBJPNy-7Den5O869gxKLQDqlFTQiEyQP4OowdKsPxkhW-AWcn0sBDQJ7iLf6VS_zpsLB-yvwVTWHyJqoBgAaPDky_XAYu6nGqdoPo2LG0guK473_h9CY4d9HFYk2cvrieSRia1OAlFBY0yhQaFxB10rn5E9neZyaqREf5IhCYlzEjHAQSQxIREWGO_aTv4cq_c0KyepS09AEWNEAXvFZGOR2g0M6nnr6ridJOqpT7OP0Ick-n4mQcN61SdR59MYRAnL0K6j5lqJtBvU1e8aIVMQem6Hy6EnvziiV2A81AYdkw=w1430-h1906-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RynKlaGY2f6vhigG9J2_BYLOfBDDZQ0nptmA_Qwbpzui2x1uVLzp79PmkaiDxOuss8sNdjBhU6wZmSxlOyiy7TTB9ekiB9SfMubMWZQGCWXEOdX_OneBevxBOXnS4oD7smBbgW4boJaHjmtMOwPFFAlBZ8emS_PrAnCX4YMS-db2yag9Z_HwJrFoCPjv3NEL8u6c0YSuYl4T6iTArg1sr0felYzK1ZyFQwpMXBB8Ek_EJ5-mWU5bNgOh2OQkNQLykQ_wCCGRYkEfNwcQIS0gp-Xo06OWwi8eJAKt9fCmd1CYZB3jNr5Z_qVAgxIv5WGLcng3zP412Kf-S1kILwayn1rvfT0Iy65bXGsx01qvTn4TgQVYabUEVMLvTWMMd3G-mS--HY7KPZ32jXQr0Zqwf5QqhbXo_XFvXLm1yhk_dW2s13GW5zfdZU2-vnAA04gPanGt2jiQNwJKiBtzcqM0Yr44wUIjOkYPpDEt4YLJxMVWKp7STiFsSV4F15KliPvNcKaH1fGgAOqLcS51u39pFkyvg9aBXzrMvD9aVgP0bf-nYa9lBdCdVRXKbFNSuns2oQsJh-y1O_7ndceUlc20jVcoeLs5vV5czb527-ARy1jvtsccQFyxe5PB5JanImBb3UWMLXiwS4P1QbpqTkiGafDOyDrF4w9Y=w2542-h1908-no)
Engine case & cylinder paint plus Ti header wrap coming this weekend. Going to look nice!
I like it alot better when you see the bike overall! Can't wait to see you finish it up! :thumb:
Here she is with the header wrap and fresh engine paint:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mjrDa55ERVKwRix_1ns4JcT25GMp0wSzWiTVLgN3RHsK3zKu1G9yQTRZREmxhWutsy-otirs0eQMhdOqlW7KxESVuvqMtqWfO4NMeJMd-TD9JlNA94uWbyXOsoOPMjMthfGh1DsYS673zjtfEQiiKu2YltwtPLnnVt9fAwVMejHrN1S4ZTj1BHgg4TUMvw6fI2bBggghVu2erb4ZJyHvbP6iHTyAmE7bBA9SL0zyaDZUv6KM0ZWOWcFdCkHxC5YipGYbolAr3AQfEpvwOZeL0L0AKmKld8QGZlSY-fAoySVxLtgUzAHPkCioNhOuWgoJ58u_3Ab3JpDMjIGrz7YSouFscDqbwGvHXEfo9eYfN2yR5Ne_4-7MFtzVgyyrVrZSsETud3Okg6n_SjyRjn87B4ROOBBbOJHJw1jQmDHO0jJJy65YzeIprOCOy06iTIR1QRpM7p_6pHzO9Lzcu3VQ9v_FVe4zRX-lYOlSL6IsauRwK2122igDCw2eC_lnOVVBwPqGwI5zefLdF99sU9oMcKrjOGCnPV7KFigcaSg_MTcUXRQboFsBcSPe9hXbJN4xx1ugY9p2ajstX5hG4gdCMLQCkepVQPtU5Y7nsFqVKzycR6iCRV0yKQ6gemyFuk2LeU2MVMRdYIBSk_NDbS2Gqw-tOu40PR3F=w2542-h1908-no)
I trimmed down the rubber foot peg covers about 1/2" to give me just a bit more leg room and adjusted the brake lever to match.
To-do list:
- new brake pads front & rear
probably doesn't NEED them but I should check it out anyway. Might change the brake fluid while I'm in there
- new springs for the fork
my cut-down springs work ok but I think the bike would be better if the fork was more firm
- thoroughly clean and consider refinishing triple tree, dash, and fork legs
only part of the bike that doesn't look pretty clean and fresh
- replace the fork brace with a beefy one
this just seems like an unnecessary expense but the fact is my bolts holding the one I have on there are rusting and the new fork brace is worth it since it comes with bolts!
- add a "third brake light" along the rear edge of the "rack" (really the top-box base)
There's actually not anything the bike NEEDS right now, which is pretty awesome. It just needs the weather to be better so I can ride. 100F is pretty miserable.
the @#$%&*)! tank bracket bolts fell out again. gonna loctite those bad boys in next time, once I go buy more hardware.
what a crummy design!
it's too hot to ride most of the time.
Went out to ride yesterday and found the tail light was flickering when I started it and then went out completely within a few seconds. Brake light was also not working.
I turned it off, pulled the seat, and found the main ground wire coming from the reg/rect DC side to the battery was melted and disintegrated.
Went out to replace that, found the black wire from the reg/rect that is on the far RH side (outside AC wire) coming from the stator was completely melted along its length and open circuit under the insulation at about 1cm from the reg/rect body. Awesome. Also my bullet connector that I had put on that wire to replace the previously melted down reg/rect connector was completely melted and gone. The bullet connector that happened to be sitting next to that one was also melted.
Something very wrong with this design if the connectors melt down like this and the wiring melts.
Something very wrong if the ground wire is melting.
Anyway, I still have to finish the reg/rect. wire replacement, have to go get more parts (more bullet connectors, some heat-shrink tubing) to finish and then get it back together. Going to go back to using the battery tender basically all the time to reduce the charge current and see if that helps reduce heat in these wires.
As usual I am trying to talk myself out of spending another couple of hundred bucks on repairs (later model MOSFET reg/rect etc.) on what was originally a $900 motorcycle that now has turned into $2500+ in expenditures to keep it running. Kind of wish I had all of my money back from this and had bought something else entirely to start with. But of course the bike is kind of worthless without these repairs so at least I have to fix the wiring and then hope that it doesn't melt again. What an amazingly crappy design, and not unique to this bike, but common across manufacturers, every MC company has issues with melting reg/rect wiring up until the mid 2000s.
So, when I go fix this and get everything working again by the end of this weekend, I'll again seriously consider whether I should ride it straight over to the dealer and trade it for something else as a father's day gift to myself.
smh.
really getting sick of this nickel and dime business on this bike.
Quote from: mr72 on June 12, 2018, 06:45:35 AM
really getting sick of this nickel and dime business on this bike.
Sorry for your ongoing headaches Josh.
But c'mon, you know you love these gremlins. Without them, how else are we going to keep you on this forum? :D :cheers:
Yeah well I fixed it today and made peace with it again. I am probably kidding myself to think an Italian motorcycle is going to be any more reliable.
Anyway, excuse the outburst. Had a bad repair day.
<edit>
Well I went and rode it yesterday just for a quick errand since it's so flippin' hot. I was paranoid that the new wiring was going to catch fire the whole time. After the last stop it felt like it didn't want to crank and it made me question my wiring thinking maybe it wasn't charging the battery. It's in my head. Put it on the battery tender this morning and for the first time ever it said "Charging" and not "Full". But that only lasted about 1 minute and then it went to "Full".
So, it's probably good to go.
Mystifies me why the wire from the reg/rect to the stator would be melted, and believe me this thing was completely melted and the wires themselves toast, but the wire from the connector to the stator itself was fine. That reg/rect wire must have been corroded between the strands. ?
Also a big mystery why that ground wire melted down, the black/white wire from the reg/rect to the battery. This was not melted just a few weeks ago when I had the whole thing apart doing the sides and tail restyling.
My guess...
Back a year ago or whenever I discovered the melted connector at the reg/rect to the little pigtail wire (connector one side, bullets other side) and eliminated that pigtail wire etc., my guess is the black wire from the reg/rect to the stator was already going bad but it was buried inside the vinyl sleeve so I couldn't see it. I think the heat sink connection may be inefficient to the degree that it sinks some heat through the diodes and back into the wiring so it likely melted the one wire because of some accident of (or intentional) circuit layout wherein that one wire gets more heat than the other four. Again, guessing on the construction of a potted part. What seems apparent is that somehow when this wire melted and went open (and it was open!), too much shunt current was made to flow down the ground wire since that path was open, causing the ground wire between the reg/rect connector and the battery to overload and melt.
One thing I noted is that solder was wicked up until the bad wire's strands up to about 1cm outside the body of the reg/rect. While this made it easy to solder a new wire on, it does make me really leery of how it got that way. Whatever solder made it that far into the wire belongs somewhere else and at the very least this will result in a cold solder joint inside the reg/rect which will run very hot, could be part of the root cause of the entire problem.
I want to get to the bottom of this because it's unlikely that I fixed the underlying problem unless it is that a) the design is marginal and b) due to age and marginal design one wire went south causing a cascade of problems.
In the end this all tells me that I no longer trust the regulator-rectifier. I should completely chunk the old shunt regulator and replace it with a more modern MOSFET part that does not have this overheating tendency. I could at the same time build up much better wiring. Truth be told I really should build an entirely new wiring harness for this motorcycle since it has numerous iffy connections and bad modifications from the previous owner... which again all whispers in my ear to just replace the entire bike.
Well the worry finally did me in and I ordered a used '07-08 Kawasaki ZX6R regulator rectifier. This is a MOSFET unit that shouldn't have this crazy heating problem.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0M4AAOSwVVRajQlM/s-l1600.jpg)
The reason I picked this unit in particular is because it has wiring pigtails, which will be much easier and cheaper to work with than the other Shindengen FH0xx units that have plugs mounted to the body, like this:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ZpMAAOSwodlatBKW/s-l1600.jpg)
With the plug-on-body type, you are basically forced to chop off the connectors on the GS and put a mating connector that will plug into the OEM plugs. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with doing it this way and it would look good and be a long-lasting clean installation but it does double the cost of the mod.
With the pigtail-type, the plan is to lop off the OEM plugs and put bullet connectors on the stator wires and 1/4" spades on the DC out wires. This will mate with what I already have on my bike.
$17 was more in line with what I was ready to spend on mods to fix this. Hopefully no more melted plugs or wires from the reg/rect.
BTW pretty good information over on the Super Hawk forum:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/knowledge-base-40/mosfet-regulator-rectifiers-why-how-25117/
Cool--well, cooler than the stock. Keep us posted. I may need to make this mod.
Got started on the mod this morning, and as usual I ran into the need to clean up more wiring than just what I was working on, and a lack of connectors on hand, so I got stalled. Once I had a chance to pick up the missing parts, I came home and fixed it up quickly.
Looks like the wiring on this is:
connector 1: 3 black wires -> stator ... 99% sure it doesn't matter which connects to which. I just chopped the original connector off and crimped bullet connectors on and connect to the GS's stator bullet connectors directly (I had already removed the intermediate wire)
connector 2:
black/blue -> +12V ... well actually +14.6V charging voltage.
black/white -> ground
black small wire -> not used/don't connect.
In my case I chopped off the original connector used 1/4" fast-on ("spade") connectors for the power and ground wires rather than the OEM melted Suzuki connector. I had to do a bunch of other ground rewiring while I was in there.
I also chopped off my negative battery terminal because it's old and needed to be replaced plus it would be much easier to connect a big fat ground wire from here to go to the reg/rect. I found crimp-type battery lugs at the local auto parts / "outdoor power" place that is my new favorite parts store.
The new reg/rect is physically larger than the one it replaces, and the mounting holes are further apart by about 10mm. I mounted it with only one bolt and used a jam nut to make sure it doesn't come loose, but this is not ideal.
The wires from the stock reg/rect (from a 2007) were about 16AWG for the DC wires and 18AWG for the stator wires, which is why I think they tended to melt down. The wires from the new one are 14AWG for the stator and 10AWG (!) for the DC wires. Those will not melt!
Once I got it all together I left the power/ground from the R/R disconnected and started the bike so I could test the voltage from the new reg/rect. In open circuit it made about 15.5-15.6V with the bike idling which seemed kind of alarming but there has to be some kind of shunt path for the regulator to work so I turned it off, connected the +/- and fired it back up gingerly to verify the charge voltage at the battery terminals. It's rock solid 14.6V across the entire rev range from 1100 rpm idle on up to 6K which is as far as I tested in my garage.
For about $10 worth of wire and connectors and $17 for the used-good Kawasaki part, I'm calling this a huge success. Time will tell if it lasts and keeps charging the battery correctly but the multimeter tells me this is brilliant. After running for 4-5 minutes it was cool to the touch. This is going to be a huge improvement. I'm not 100% thrilled with the mounting bracket situation and I'm also not 100% thrilled with the current ground wiring but I didn't have a weekend to spend coming up with something better. In the long run I think it would be best to relocate this reg/rect to somewhere under the seat since it won't run nearly as hot as the original, so I'll figure that out at some later date.
Thanks for the complete coverage of the modification. Mine may be next.
Just got my aluminum footpegs in the mail. The good? well, they're aluminum :) Bad? They are probably way too small. An inch shorter than the stockers at least. And the part that goes through the frame is noticeably thiner, going to take some kind of spacers or washers.
They might actually work ok for my hackish footpeg lowering idea, which is to use a piece of steel channel to lower/forward the peg a little.
Anyway, gonna try them. They were real cheap. If they work ok then I might order another set for the rear. Just not sure my super wide foot is going to fit very well on this. If the top of the stock ones were flat, then I'd just use them with grip tape.
Ok friends, another ride, another story.
Went on about a 75 mile ride with my dad yesterday. It was about 95-96 degrees F. We did a moderately-twisty, nice quick country road out to a 10-20 mile stretch of super windy, rough, hilly road that dumped is back on another country highway and back the way we came after that. We've done this route before.
- OK first, the seat. This was maybe a two hour adventure. It took about 45 minutes for me to realize this seat is just not going to work out in the long run. That's annoying since I just made up a bunch of mesh bodywork to match this seat exactly. I am going to wind up pulling it off again and doing much more serious foam mods to it I guess. Problem is I just don't know what to do with it to make it better.
- Next really annoying thing is my right foot gets totally numb after about an hour. My guess is my left foot would too except that I have to shift so I move it much more. I really don't know what to do to solve this. From vibrations my hands also got a little bit numb and stayed kind of tingly for about 30 minutes after the ride, but this isn't as big of a deal.
- The hesitation coming from closed throttle to part throttle got super annoying with these windy roads. Basically my speed was constantly changing so I was always going from decel with the throttle closed to accel with a little bit (less than 1/4) throttle, and this exposes this hesitation/stumbling that my bike does. The more I research and think about this problem the more I think it is one of two things: either it's just too lean at the closed end of the needle, which means I should shim the needle (which I plan to do), or the slide is not coming up quick enough, which means I should drill the holes in the slide a notch or maybe I have a vacuum leak somewhere. The more I consider how this all works the more I realize that if I shim the needles, it will make it "idle" richer because any air bypass through the throttle plate will allow air to flow through the main venturi and pick up fuel from the main jet depending on needle position, and needle up 1mm or whatever is going to allow some fuel. Anyway, it all just makes me think I need to go in and shim the needles and drop the main jet down a size, I think it's currently 127.5 and I'm going to run it down to 125. Will do that this coming weekend. Also need to change my fuel lines. Dang this thing requires a lot of maintenance. I also read that leaking "choke" jet can cause poor fuel economy that is unrelated to other carb tuning, so I will look into that too. I just ride so gently that I ought to be getting at least 45mpg all the time and probably closer to 50. Not that I care really, I just want it to be right.
- Maybe related to the throttle hesitation or not, but my fuel economy is still low. I left the house with 47 miles on the trip odo and stopped at a gas station by my house with 123 miles on it. I put 3.06 gal in, and I was pretty careful to get it filled to the same spot as last time. So this is 40.x mpg. I read the Mikuni BST tuning guide and a bunch of other forums and now I'm thinking that provided my jetting is right (and I think it is, or very close, and the difference is mostly at WOT, and I almost never ride at WOT), maybe the problem is float level. I guess while I have the carbs apart this weekend I'll try to reset that too.
- The toe of my right shoe was again soaked in oil and it's leaking out of the crank seal behind the signal generator. I replaced that seal some time ago when it was leaking before. It only leaks like this when the oil is topped up. If I let it get 1/2 quart low, then it doesn't leak (as much). It seems to mostly show up like this when I do a long/harder ride. I don't see oil on my shoes when I ride to work, only like 16 miles each way without high revs. I think I have decided that crank seal won't hold oil pressure and it's just going to leak no matter what, which really sucks. I might try to find another solution just to keep oil off of my shoes. I can clean it easily enough off of the bike but the shoe is a real annoyance. Maybe I'll make an oil dam of some kind.
- One last thing... as much as I love the comfort of my Sedici Strada helmet, man that thing is loud when it's at all windy and going over about 45 mph. Is that all helmets, or is this one just uniquely noisy? Someone about to tell me I need to buy a $500 Shoei helmet to solve this? I actually think earplugs are a better solution. I can't hear anything anyway at those speeds because it's covered with wind noise.
OK project stumblectomy not a success so far.
PROBLEM: bike stumbles or hesitates at about 1/8 throttle at 2.5K rpm. think first gear parking lot speed cruise.
I had two theories as to why this was happening: 1) lean under these conditions which would be fixed with a combination of pilot jet and moving the needle clips down a notch, and 2) float levels wrong.
the secondary issue I wanted to address was poor fuel economy which more than anything might be an indication that it's running rich. So I was considering bumping the main jet down a size.
So since I needed to change my fuel lines anyway I decided to tackle this all at once today, so I pulled everything off and:
1. verified the float levels are perfect. That's not causing the stumble.
2. changed the main jet down to 125 (was 127.5)
3. moved the e-clip on the needles down a notch (thank goodness whoever I bought these carbs from had swapped in non-US needles!)
4. turned the pilot mixture needles out 1/8 turn to make them just a smidge richer.
Also replaced all the fuel lines with new tygon lines and verified everything was working right like chokes diaphragms slides etc. Whole bike is super good to go now that it's together.
Anndd... well I didn't get it warmed all the way up, just started and ran for like 2 min and then rode it around the cul-de-sac. But the stumble is still there.
One thing is that the bike seems quite happy to idle with the choke off even after starting and warming up only for like 20 seconds, which I attribute to that 1/8 turn on the pilot needles.
So I didn't fix my stumble but I did verify it's not what I thought it was.
New theory is that maybe it's too rich under these conditions which I would think wouldn't cause a stumble but I guess anything's possible. In that case then I need to move the needles back and maybe turn the pilot needles in 1/4 turn. Since it requires pulling the tank to get to the needles I might start with the pilot needles just to check. But I really do doubt this is the problem.
Anyway, it's a problem for another day.
While messing with it I found another couple of problems of course. The throttle/right hand control is still not able to be tightened to the bar and moves. I need to fix that ASAP. I did this times before filling the hole with JB Weld and tapping it again but I think it might take more serious work like gluing in a nut or using one of these threaded brass inserts like I use on guitar necks. I really need to totally replace the right hand control. While I have it apart I might do the quicker-throttle mod since I find that I basically never ever use WOT because it's too much wrist rotation.
Also discovered my horn doesn't work. Wire musta come loose somewhere. Guess I'll have to figure that out.
Still needs bigger springs and a new rear tire.
Lots of little things I need to do while it's too hot to ride much. Once October gets here then I'll want this thing to be perfect. Or I'll want a new motorcycle.
Alright I rode it around a lot more and it's definitely noticeably leaner.
A lot less crackling/popping on decel, presumably because less unburnt fuel in the exhaust.
Got one backfire through the carb taking off from a stop light when first opening the throttle. Sure sign it's lean.
So it was rich on the 127.5 jets and lean on the 125s. I think I'll keep the 125. Bike runs great, pulls well, quite snappy, etc.
Idle is perfect.
And I noticed my stumble is at the same 1/8 throttle or so no matter the rpm. It's just a stumble at light throttle. It's only in a very, very narrow range of throttle positions now, but it's definitely still there. Now that I am paying attention to it, it seems hard to avoid it.
EDIT:
I can tell that there is a range of throttle, very small, where the bike runs on pilot alone. Then with a touch more throttle it goes into stumble, and just a touch more it goes to normal riding. Problem is the stumble part is right at where you are riding in a parking lot, or in 4th gear riding around my neighborhood at 30mph, so it's a range that I use fairly frequently. So I want to solve it.
My current theory is that it may be worn emulsion tubes. The theory here is that wear in the slide guides allows the needle to rub against the side of the emulsion tube causing it to wear a bit of a groove or sort of egg-shape, so that when the needle seats it doesn't seal all around. This means you draw in fuel from the main jet even when the slide is all the way down, which should be at nearly zero throttle. I'm guessing you have to get the throttle plate open enough to get some air moving through the venturi before it begins to draw any fuel at all, and it draws fuel from the main jet through this leak in the emulsion tube with the needle down even if the slide isn't coming up at all.
It appears my bike doesn't have stock needles, at least not stock for a USA GS500, and they are stainless steel. I hear others may be aluminum, which would reduce wear a lot on the emulsion tubes since the needle would wear (which is just as bad, but easier to fix).
I have yet to confirm this is related to the problem but I can imagine how it would make it impossible to tune if this were the case. It's annoying enough that I think I will order some new emulsion tubes and replace them next time I have the bike apart. Unfortunately they are quite pricey. Looking for alternatives, especially if I can find a stainless steel one. I will also inspect those from my old/original carbs, maybe they are in better shape.
BTW an alternate name for emulsion tubes is "needle jet". That's quite misleading since it's not a jet. Looks like some parts diagrams call this part the "nozzle". Suzuki part number is 09494-00871, #30 in this picture:
(https://cdn1.bikebandit-images.com/schematics/schematics/suzuki/suz008/su0083_013.gif)
Stumblectomy research project update:
I have a spare set of carbs, the original ones that were on the bike when I got it with 21K miles on it. There's a fair chance they're original, but I could never get the bike to run with these carbs so I gave up and bought another set, which are on the bike now.
I can confirm that the needles that are on the bike are stainless steel and have five needle clip positions, so these are not original. The stock/OEM emulsion tubes in a GS500 are unplated brass. My suspicion is that the stumbling at just off idle may be caused by worn emulsion tubes, which I have yet to confirm. If this is the case, then there is a chance that the cause of the wear may be related to the stainless needles. Reports from other bike forums about these Mikuni BST carbs on other bikes indicate that the combination of stainless needles and unplated brass emulsion tubes can result in rapid wear of the emulsion tubes, like within a few hundred miles. This is in line with my experience, the stumbling problem has steadily progressed, to the point it is now where I have to do something about it, in the past 3K miles. Also reports are that my riding style accelerates this wear, because I tend to ride at small throttle openings and lower speeds most of the time, which increases the potential for wear because the needle is very close to the emulsion tube at low throttle openings.
Anyway.
Over the past day or two I pulled apart my old carbs just to investigate. The plan is to pull the current/running carbs and attempt to remedy this problem, but I wanted to get my head straight by looking at some carbs on the bench first. The old carbs have aluminum needles with only one clip slot. These appear to be stock. And there is no wear I can see on these needles. I pulled the emulsion tubes, which you can easily do by putting one of the bowl screws into the hole where the main jet goes and tap it with a small hammer, which will knock the emulsion tube loose. I used a jeweler's hammer. Eventually you have to use something longer to tap it out if you don't have a 2" long M4 bolt, I used a 4mm allen wrench.
When I got the emulsion tubes out there was something alarming to begin with, which is they were extremely crusty. I mean, there was an unbelievable amount of crud built up all over the outside of these emulsion tubes, clogging the holes, and in general making them look awful. My guess is this is one of the reasons I could never get the bike to run with these carbs. However, when I looked carefully at the opening in the top of the emulsion tube where it would be worn, I could not find any noticeable wear. So it looks like my "spare" set of emulsion tubes and needles are stock and undamaged. This is good. So I hit them with a brass wire brush and they are currently soaking in B12 chemtool. After a day's worth of soaking I might stick them in a little vinegar to see if I can get the last bits of corrosion off.
Next step is to pull the carbs again from my GS. I'm not happy with having to do this but I want to get it right. Day after tomorrow I'll tear it down, the goal is to swap in the stock needles and good emulsion tubes from the old carbs. I'll get a look at the wear (if any) of the current emulsion tubes when I get them out of the carbs and report back on whether there is wear or gunk buildup. Probably start with 1-2 washers on each needle.
Side note: as replacement parts, these needles and emulsion tubes are not cheap. Factory Pro has kits with nickel plated emulsion tubes and stainless needles, which they say will wear much longer. To replace both needles and emulsion tubes would be like $80 worth of parts (!). Also since I have stainless needles that are likely aftermarket, the profile is really unknown. Just eyeballing it, it seems like the taper is much more exaggerated with the SS needles than the alu but I'll measure them all with a micrometer when I have all of the parts in my hand.
Who am I kidding? I like tinkering with this stuff.
Oh, another tip for the home mechanic: to get gasoline off of your hands, use laundry spray-cleaner like Oxy-Clean, Shout or Spray-n-wash. Also, "Totally Awesome" that you can get literally for $1 at Dollar General works just as well and is a great general purpose cleaner/degreaser to boot.
Good luck to you mr72, I will be hoping you get everything sorted! I am following along, as usual.
And... that L.A.'s Awesome cleaner really is wonderful stuff!
Welp, this is interesting.
Earlier this morning I pulled the carbs and checked the emulsion tubes.
First, to my surprise, the emulsion tubes are nickel-plated. They are not stock. Looks like the emulsion tubes and needles both were replaced in these carbs at some point. Maybe a Factory Pro kit? I have no idea. Anyway, they have absolutely no wear that I can discern and are a much better choice than the old/stock ones from my spare carbs so I'll keep them.
Bike's apart at the moment. I will measure the stainless/aftermarket needles and if they are the same profile as the stock alu needles then I'll stick with them, otherwise I'll switch to the alu stockers.
So my stumbling is almost definitely NOT caused by worn emulsion tubes.
So without the benefit of a wideband O2 sensor, here's my logic.
- with the 127.5 jets and needles on #3 it stubmbled occasionally
- with 125 jets the bike runs better overall but with the needles on #4 (1mm shim equivalent) it stumbles worse.
- so this means stumbling is not likely caused by too-lean as I thought, but more likely too rich.
Odds are then had I gone to 125 jet and left the needle clip positions alone it'd probably be working fine right now. So I'll either swap in the aluminum needles or if the taper is the same for the SS ones, I'll move the needle clip position back down to the stock spot and use them. Then let's see if I can find a balance point between good idle and no stumbling with pilot jet needle adjustment. At least that's adjustable with the bike intact.
The good news: I confirmed the emulsion tubes aren't worn so I can quit worrying about it.
I will dial out as much stumble as I can with pilot mixture but I'll tolerate it if I can't dial it out and chalk it up to c'est la vie.
More later.
Update:
The SS needles that were in the carbs were NOT the same profile as the stock aluminum ones. At the end both were 1.80mm and at the shank both were 2.40mm. But at 1cm from the end, the alu ones were about 2.2mm and the SS ones were just a hair over 2.0mm, a difference of 0.2mm. The result of that would be the bike running richer at mid-throttle.
So I put the stock alu needles in with the Ni plated emulsion tubes. No washers. I figured why not try stock. And just to make sure I can't rule things out easily, I went ahead and leaned the pilot mixture 1/2 turn on each side (recall I had turned it 1/8 turn richer before).
Result? Well I didn't ride the bike far or long enough to check the pilot mixture the way I prefer, didn't get it fully warmed up. But in a couple of laps in 1st gear at parking lot pace around the cul-de-sac I could not make it stumble.
So, it looks like the stumble may have been indeed caused by too-rich conditions at light throttle, a combination of the needle profile and me trying the wrong thing to fix it by dropping the e-clip down a notch. Going back to stock needle/position seems to have cured it, with the 125 jet.
My guess is this will improve the fuel mileage. How can it not? Now I just need to get out and ride some to wring it out.
Alright, I just went on a 1.25 hour errand including windy backroads and highways and everything else, the bike RUNS SO MUCH BETTER THAN IT EVER HAS!!!
Wow, what a difference.
It does seem to idle a touch lean, which I will probably have to address come winter. And it takes a lot longer to warm up so it'll idle with the choke off. All signs of running much leaner. It was too rich at throttle tip in causing the stumbling.
OEM aluminum needles, no shimming
some aftermarket emulsion tubes with nickel plating
40/125 jets
OEM air filter / airbox
chopped (10" or so) Yoshimura muffler ("slip-on" but it's bolted on)
=
success!
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
That is wonderful news :cheers:
SS or nickle plated stuff. Was this bike used for drag racing? IOr something similar where they use alcohol fuels ( not E10) Cause that's what it sounds like.
Stumble at 1/8 is the transition from pilot to needle ( I suspect you know that).
My experience in that area is that one possible is the air screw is either too far in or out so the pilot is either too big or too large. If the screw is less than 1.5 turns from all in or 3 turns all out then try another pilot that will get you to 2-2.5 turns. The taper stops working too far in or out. Check the springs are in there and that there is no wear step in the screw taper.
Next the needles at full in may be too long or short, so when they lift it goes too rich or too lean.
Another thing is possibly the emulsion tubes may be for alcohol or for a two stroke, in which case the the emulsion tube will be wrong shape, especially at the top.
Hope there might be something there you can use.
gregjet thanks a ton, that is very useful info and it aligns with what I found with other research.
I think the needles and emulsion tubes in these carbs likely came in a kit along with jets, you know a "Stage 1" or whatever kit. Any kit with SS needles would likely include nickel plated emulsion tubes I would think to avoid excessive/fast wear. The emulsion tubes appear to be identical to the stock ones only plated. One thing's for sure, the nickel plating sure does seem to reduce the corrosion from gas with ethanol vs. the original brass tubes.
Remember these carbs didn't come with the bike. I could never make it run wth the original carbs and I bought these on ebay for like $80 and then replaced all o-rings and float needles, set them up according to the prescribed way and they just worked. I'm sure the story is somewhere in the thousand pages of this thread.
Not as if I know the pedigree of the rest of the bike. I did find where the previous owner was on this forum trying to fix stuff that was wrong with it when I got it, eventually requiring the top-end rebuild to fix. So I have every indication that the bike had some abuse and misguided repair efforts heaped on it during the quarter century it lived before I got it.
FWIW I have already gone through the rest of the carbs replacing all o-rings and resetting/checking/cleaning everything. It's all in great shape. The real problem is just as you suggested, stumbling, caused by it being too rich right at the smallest opening of the slide/needle, which was (I think) caused by two things primarily: 1) the main jet was too big and 2) the needle profile was too rich in that spot. I made it worse by moving the needle a notch richer.
For good measure I leaned the pilot mixture a half turn but I think it's too lean now. I might come out 1/8 turn on each carb before my next ride and I think it might be perfect by then.
Main jet size should have pretty much no effect at 1/8 throttle. Really pilot size, pilot screw taper and needle position/taper will be all that flows ( unless it is a alcohol/2stroke needle jet then the upper bit of the tube in the airflow will have a big effect.)
You probably have this but just in case here is a link to the VM carb tuning. Now only some of it is relevant to our carbs directly but you can check the emulsion tube type just in case. See the description at 3.2 and next page and the picuture of them is on page 9.
http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/vmmanual.pdf
I didn't mention the cutaways as as far as I know there is only one slide available for our carbs. They could be sticking of course.
Any washers under the needle WILL effect this area as well by making the needle effectively shorter ( or longer).
FYI it's been a couple of months and a lot of miles and the Kawasaki reg/rect is solid as a rock. No signs of any trouble.
I swapped the rear tire for a new Pilot Street Radial in 140/70-17. Also a while back I put in Sonic Springs, 0.90kg-mm, and also added a controversial handlebar riser and a stripe on the tank and lowered the fork tubes in the triples about 10mm to further raise the front end to match the taller rear end by virtue of the bigger tire. The bike really runs and rides great, looks very good, and there's pretty much nothing to complain about.
So naturally, I'm shopping for another bike. Going on Saturday to look at another Bonneville. I'm smitten with those.
I have my now-annual trip to the Harvest Classic rally/show coming up in a week and I'll most likely take the GS even if I wind up (likely) buying a Triumph by then, since the GS is decked out for luggage and it's a reliable, known quantity. I don't think I want to be doing a 100-mile trip on a used British motorcycle that I don't know well. Even though I was cranky about it just a few months ago, after riding a lot all summer I learned that my GS is a decent looking, reliable, fun, flickable, quick and steady do-all runabout. Having that base covered made it easier for me to decide to add what is a heavier and more expensive roadster to the garage. Time will tell, but I doubt I will quit riding the GS. And even if I do quit riding it often, I doubt I will sell it. Again, time will tell.
The era of my project bike may be coming to an end. This is two years and eleven days after my first post in this thread.
Thinking back, when I bought this bike I really planned to "just ride it" for about a year, and actually figured I would wind up replacing it with something bigger and a decade newer, assuming I was riding regularly. I didn't really know what to expect. But as it turns out, I did what I always do with anything I care much about, and sunk time and money into rebuilding and updating it. The bike grew on me, a lot. In a lot of ways, my joy of motorcycling was linked to this specific bike. But I also enjoyed the mechanical simplicity, the art of the carburetors, the personality of this bike. Now it's a trusted road companion that's not only personalized but it has sort of personalized me to itself.
But I did buy another bike, a 2012 Triumph Bonneville SE. The Triumph is a better bike in every way. It looks better, a lot better. It's quicker, starts easier, far more responsive and faster, smoother, more planted and stable in turns, just better. It should be, it's 20 years newer and cost three times as much. The one thing the Triumph lacks where the old GS excels is in personality. Character. The Triumph feels great the first time you ride it. It feels like you are getting all you can out of it within the first mile. No experience necessary. The GS, well you have to learn it, who it is, how it works. You have to learn to feel the tires on the road and where the power comes on and how to negotiate the transmission to make it work. The triumph's chassis doesn't flex and the weight is down low so it drives itself around curves and effortlessly executes whatever you want. The GS requires you to find the sweet spot and rewards you for it.
I had a similar feeling about my Miata, which I bought new in 2000 and then rebuilt in 2013-2014 only to have it totaled in 2015. I dearly miss that car. I think I may wind up missing my GS the same way. But yesterday after running an errand on the new Triumph it seemed clear that I might never really find a reason to get back on the GS if the Triumph was sitting there ready to go. So with sort of a heavy heart, I started to realize this may be the end of an era for me on my GS. Maybe my mind will change after the new wears off of the Triumph.
The bike's not for sale. Not now anyway. If the CenTX fall weather turns perfect, maybe I'll post the GS and see if I get any bites. Otherwise it's more likely I'll try to sell it in the spring. I'll be stingy on price knowing that this is an extremely well-sorted bike with virtually everything that's not new having been updated, improved, rebuilt, or reconditioned. It's a special GS500 and I need it to go to a special new home, not just some kid that'll destroy it because it was cheap. Or maybe I'll just keep it forever and go ride it to the grocery store once a week to keep the gas fresh, because I'll probably regret ever letting it go.
No!!! Say it ain't so!
You've invested too much time and love to let it go. Unless you're really pressed for storage space or cash, just hang on to it. I'm sure somewhere along the way you'll get the urge to tinker. Turn it into a cafe racer / bobber /whatever and have fun. Save the fancy Triumph for riding.
I know - I have a Daytona, but still love my old GS project.
Yeah I think I'll keep it for the time being. I definitely don't want to see it go. Got a soft spot for it. Probably I'll want to ride it again once the new wears off of the Triumph. Plus the top case on the GS is extremely useful. I am not sure I'll ever wind up with luggage like that on the Triumph.
After taking one longish trip on the Triumph, it became clear that the GS is better on those kinds of trips. The more compliant longer-travel suspension and the far more comfortable seat have a lot to do with it. 15-20mpg more gas mileage, and thus about a 50 miles longer range, has a lot to do with it to.
Given these things, now I am thinking about perhaps swapping a set of 80/20 tires onto the GS and keeping it as an almost-scrambler type bike. I think the GS might be very good on gravel roads and some smoother fire-road type roads, or on these rough backroads that are "paved" (note the quotes) here in Central TX, with only a change in tires. Kind of the "crossover SUV" of motorcycles?
Maybe?
Today I changed the front sprocket to a 14t in effort to pep up the old GS. This is part of the scramblerization of the GS. I figured lowering the gearing would make it a bit more peppy, and since I have a better bike for highway riding, I don't really need the GS to do dual duty. Plus if I am riding on things like fire roads and other gravel etc. then having a bit lower gears might be a big advantage.
To quantify how much quicker the bike is with a 14t sprocket, I decided to make a video of some 0-60+ runs with the stock 16t sprocket using my action camera on the handlebar aimed roughly at the speedometer. The idea is to make similar videos of the bike with the 14t sprocket on it. Now some on this forum in another thread argued that this will not make the bike accelerate any quicker, but I'm pretty certain it will. Plus it'll be fun to have the videos.
Now, a little side note. I have noticed that the GS's clutch always felt, well, kind of spongy? Maybe like it had a bit of extra friction to it, moving both ways. Maybe it was a little sticky, didn't always want to release cleanly. Compared with the very crisp, and firmer, clutch in the Triumph, it was night and day.
Anyway, while I was about to put together the bike after swapping the sprocket I noticed this alarming condition:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/feDRngWbThzDbk9ZcAGBCUEijDVghJypjS2ha9SAlCfSPuFJLQs8xSjSWalS2NNgVi1FM-xQsfc6wRYNwC9O7eMICyzeqc6VF-N2nmMhde9AD9b7jpD0W3dXMgt_ZX801Z3cauf4cBPaz40sD1XZ8oKBl7PSQzTWaPIXSfhWSqSYBByx_4NNy7GH2FFVi1ikqBf-3SfCddw8yIrSLnG5evoGo58jlHA1iRcGTkgT00dKzjD4RnUiIifsJDVkAiujYZH-zgKC0h-i0puLgqKc3Ux4mqIZgJujO81rITv6PLA22mUGEyXu4wW0yoczCx1u9wC_bkj27Hv1va8yZ8m_P0I3rcx_E84MQaNzmxpDmwltyMGEr2a5Bc5_71R_0anVpxFnjncDaVV5GSY9AzEKVhZ8KowTCo_K_M1JQ33oPekqEoK9riHAoNHBwoqWiz_BzYdOQEgpTLwoIK-4oErixu-VgfgpC2ZlVGYKDLweN1QlPTUr4hW5hE9Q2nSL-Qi5in7bqg9MMfELmz3t43GrhnONabXt_N4V-I15MpiY3gBK8btscIRToqMvCpxLKNK8bZsL8_moucwN2ai5ZoRvFQV_tpcKGLOqM-BFdIEzQKytZ7EVxcxhKlAe4Q0NdRBduDyWCPi-rKzUNiuOoNTpPUuRjS0QPwoUjeqbIuyxim5Pb-acBiqCYUysCIR9drDj4DKLnB6RXk5dHDlB95s6pbMv3g=w1328-h1770-no)
Yeah, that would explain the weird clutch feel. What you can't see in the picture is that the one strand of the clutch cable that's still attached is actually frayed down about 70%. That thing is almost literally hanging on by a thread. Looking at that, I really feel fortunate I didn't get left stranded due to a broken clutch cable. To think, before I bought my Triumph I was planning on taking this bike on a 300 mile round trip to a motorcycle rally for camping etc. where it'd be my sole transportation. And I had been using it regularly to get to and from work when I needed to go. I'm not sure this has even one more ride left in it.
So I ordered a new clutch cable, and it'll likely take a week to get here. I'll go ahead and pull that sprocket cover off and thoroughly clean it plus the engine beneath it before the new cable gets here so I can have it all together maybe by next weekend and I will make the new videos.
I also happened to have gotten a new, taller seat for my Triumph, which is maybe 2" taller. It's amazing how much more comfortable the Triumph is with the much longer distance from the seat to the pegs. Did I mention I have about a 33-34" inseam? Yeah, apparently that's too big for the old GS. So lowering the pegs is now going to be a priority. I'll be analyzing how to make brackets to move these pegs down and forward. Since I'm going to do this basically custom, might as well do it right, and I think I'll measure the distance and angle of the Triumph and match it as close as possible on the GS. There are basically two big complications: the rear brake, which has the master cylinder mounted straight to the rearset plate on the right side, and the shifter, which I will have to completely fabricate. Shifter is no big problem but that brake may be tricky. Fortunately I'm not the first person to try to do this, so I will go look and see how others did it and just copy and paste as much as possible.
The project never ends!
That clutch cab;le is seriously one of the sketchiest things I've ever seen... Lucky you caught it before it broke!
Replaced the clutch cable and went for a spin with the 14t sprocket.
First of all, I discovered that if I am not riding this thing regularly, it really is cranky when it's cold. I think the float bowls get empty and it has a hard time filling them on startup and it takes a while before there's vacuum long enough to get the petcock to flow. Going to have to figure this out. I'm guessing the trick will be putting it on PRI for a couple of minutes prior to starting when it's been sitting. Also I get the impression everything is gummed up. I think I'll put a dose of B-12 in the tank.
Anyway...
So the clutch cable is miraculously better. OMG I can't believe how much better that is. If you have spongy and crummy clutch feel CHECK THE CABLE under the cover.
The 14t sprocket. Well, the bike doesn't wheelie all the time. But it does seem to love revving a lot more. It definitely feels more energetic all the time. But it's screaming down the road at 65mph, turning over 6K in 6th gear. The biggest thing for me is getting used to not accelerating at 3K rpm like I do on the Triumph. After I ride it about 10 minutes then it suddenly feels quite quick but it's mostly because I'm used to the power band and not upshifting at 6K rpm all the time like I do on the Bonnie. After a few minutes on it, the bike begins to feel very high strung and hooliganish.
So in all, I am not 100% sure I love the 14t. I am sure I like it better than the 16, but I'm glad the 41t rear didn't work out because I think it would be nearly unusable on the highway with any shorter gearing. A 15t might be perfect. But for the time being, the 14t will stay and make that bike interesting.
Mostly I just need to be riding this more.
Servus,
Try the 16er in Front with the 41er in the Rear :D
I don't have a 41t that fits the rear. The one I ordered didn't fit so I sent it back.
where pic mr? :dunno_black:
:icon_mrgreen:
well, you can't see the new sprocket :)
So, rode it a lot more today. Once it's warmed up and I get my GS senses back, it's kind of a hoot and definitely more high strung. And it does wheelie pretty readily off the line with just a hint of leaning back.
sorry no pics yet but I'm deep in the middle of a footpeg-lowering project.
I'll take some pictures once I have more to go on.
I used 1" steel box section about 8" long to create basically an extension for each side that mounts to the spot where the "rearset" mounts on each side. I'm fitting up a hunk of L-angle steel on the front edge of this box section where I will re-mount the "rearset" on each side. This will result in the pegs being about 3" lower and about 1" forward of the stock location.
I'm using a KTM replacement shift lever with a pivot and mounting it to a plate that I'm sticking on the left "rearset" (I keep using quotes because that term really doesn't apply...). The handy thing about this particular lever, and why I picked it, is that unlike most the lever that drives the shifter via a rod and heim joint is above the lever rather than below. This allows me to easily reverse the direction of the shifter, and also accommodates mounting it below the stock shifter plane. I guess it'll all make more sense once there's a picture.
Hardest part of the project will likely be mounting the brake light switch. But the whole thing has been more involved than I expected but I decided I want to use the GS more as a gravel road and bad surface adventurey bike so I need to be able to stand on the pegs. Lowering them 3" is just what the Dr. ordered.
good stuff,..cant wait to see it
OK, here we go.
I got both footpeg lowering brackets built and mounted.
I actually started over this morning and threw away the work I already did on this. I started with a 3ft length of 1"x1"x1/8" steel angle. I cut the brackets down using a miter saw with an abrasive metal cutting blade, which worked pretty well and was way faster and cleaner than using the angle grinder. Then I did some shaping using my bench grinder.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zVgCuTcFBJlsdvAqpPYMAWPP1GqYFN8p0kX6DBXfTu0CRQ3nGz1p9RD-qj719GMinKC6Gg1xFJwjCSVnXC5WdN8sjsG1OwM3oUHutuFhyFlZmPYQSJbG-nQD3ktJBXcLPPTEc9Y2FNBCpNJ9Q-hrDe3OmblStRmHoSifmh09ULKimFZrXs9Anen8xo0F8_oHV7PH-9e8M89RLRaCXGZ9x7N-lKIrIWdIT4dG7vocfPhaZgYUqWtJl2EpzU3KjXiPQ5m8m2zuaKr4sPdh2nw7BAJEBVd0gTBk-0vZquc19IIIdOYqPYi3Dp6ePqPhM9CRMFbRLq3RNvuOMjjWM_URmigC-oNtgxGEHdWVVieZgH2txoOtYETcLNMWpH9f8xFIdIUHeG3bMiPUQv1-F_RXoDwQUBUcGhoaFt9EVXRoZos_Zavuh99rXYfbqQThxsw9etSi-T044pBoM4CHKUQ6Tcu4FTySAe5KOLlC5i8iTGqURFGM1LYUwObkbCFvRxIFcUabu29o3JhsJf5CDGZYxcbTWawzDjqsY-_FIhPPSmsH8qt2oxpsq41K0ygABNKFf_eNX5RErqqlM40FkdrIdw8RQP5Ws2mY8eeocxmzUGU-CwVx7FlIk-9T-KjtXAMXa99Td455mt2I1ueHJX-SZ3VJSWWIf49cmjewrWjCXhn4tgd1Ri9baIQJrYoD_ODS5shi3vYWNuPaZ_uxG17KyYCvAg=w1402-h1868-no)
Next up I drilled the holes to mount them. Basically each side has two pieces that bolt together, then this all bolts to the bike. I tapped the holes where the original "rearset" mounts with an M8 tap so I can use the original bolt.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/neT-2rEY3sUDyPpVI3aPEnhFPiP-p4I8f2kCPGjYNJkcsWvml8DD6zVlJ8Kh4pBFKN5E6rvQNDBTmDsGEO56FPYSa3tJm5LBVo4YtvxV97zwNPkQc975Ae0YDN8gV1gnUmreafg4WvtYGRI5AZA52P_G8J43H24SRhYnSm-92hX8w1ygR5iiMyWP4MsHLizmPmxqwEQY0KZGdhEw_hy754z9eK4gacqAddWkLYiGj4_OFXEBp_k6oxqqN0bc2GDd-zuUPoHeK1z0cCcM6KvBCpKfXpTJ4p-Q2fGit29PL1-3CkmP-OeXgJp9k0-geeDX9rFB9MayvgKnttnqIh4jxrBAQ5x-ydfJIYrAEdN_hoZYDkwj5pp3hNlp55BmI4vvgKHQv0R65ny17P-UYrPZCtd_plUKJVIIh5ewSpiXLVbA2DuBcYZY6NLpJvHSpa3xOFlmWvyhZrWhAo7YAbtEvEV6m-6Xdsqur7yAI6_wMpIysB3Sy55dTxVZJhMQLrcY48D3tzIkmpfzdwbwABjyckjlpXRKG4y4QXHT3qCJo_AtqbQoAM5vEJl2fNoXda5wDhj3Us_NvBQ3wp6N6wxdL0xo7dOSqPPRMCqzfVS9MHX6pltaqDj0QPBkENvZBDLZIJWsk2OiaFaMXkq94fLimrvJsEs0Eepdt91sd9rTbryzkcH53G-QKd_KH0ZxazFbvjz72vUaVm9avqxtDudY3f-vhA=w1698-h1868-no)
Right side all mounted up. Still have to figure out how to attach the rear brake MC and brake light switch but I have ideas.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aLg3LWTSQBVIBP41DXPx1LAlGQt76fXeIaHij5SxuWr66OYBsQRM6u6EcUsYNBYxp-jsgMPADxSDcMaRHbJKhJxTqa7QaVlTF98For7SmTMguZ3nJtIDxmIipI4tzvt2HuO1-xo84LytV2NLDUBaldDYqki7VmMRiPtc3Dxrasd03kx-LzlOMHTBg5-NWBMZcXhALq_eZiwKFWzIWayuslHKm3MivSgsSB6UggZF1NFnZDg-Eb5f83LYPaGf0v96Wq8qPouXR3EyQqO8hft2P0zXWrWx8hkY-UrAn73iFvtMp7ZlsHXEPaoIkwNSk7yVpE6cH81doQii1BwMFa2rW0IBwBtQ0rp64CSPTdj31Pyszls7TtMcOoBoX7g7kzyJkg70OeIfS9fXcvfA-ZmbjdL0HYoVMzod-EL7RlN5hhYPtH9o5A-QwhiOK46ZQvoFlGgCK3HihOL51zkLmj-bHXzQZ8QNP2t2zcHrFg3hfZ0NY1s70F_VupvUck2dRqN8xQgySko4bFnzVdh5Y496unjG_fwLjCkaljdiY56lsBz5iJ33pQfiYdTEoDjPfgWa7Ah4cBR8bzFAXZfjSQWDx2744CyVGJ-8PQJM85XxfyYIeT5KWEVdk12_g7lBJ75n_tOVLi2DRmbhq9kWdD1iL8WlhLH3fFpYYZmZJmWA-TeDiwvzNB2j1DWVPu5wyJJ75dJ4oLKuFP-ULUC5x4ItaImVNA=w1738-h1868-no)
Things get more interesting on the left side due to the shifter.
Bracket mounted:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yFHTwJRtdJV38lN-41CYBBJeuxsj5PBORyq5dDohlsCg3yD7DznJyCrVBiwGT0ffOUOKetUhYkKhG7FgJzSO8NKfsp8h6mLgvQ7BQD3xmkVnqvgnrwG8ADQeswT_XmOPhUgQsgzj0s_H7ft2T23hvx71gjqsyjSqu0xmSID0W_Uw9On73wFeVcpT8k8GUBsRAZwew7H5QtWlImiqoY53TVgVJbdzqGgnOgFsqq7utUm5JvA4mYkkLz_1LuNRwoREQsJacDYQHe9D6jYHjbzwssC8b6z4D9ZNjWEt4PPIndp8eeVk8fyWxsaW2yCjjUuN6bWb7EMhAdYLbtGEXFvjwVtJkNbqkmVKxqa-7LqaVnvae1nt2duKQAswwjtNzXd7NN_Ih3LwOnR-GXH0dLyq9NebGbr9tD-S4icCk3QPXWxby61hyu8zByyENm0c0GRvl5f4PaD35F_ABVs91qhiq6IN85opa82yUkiGa-OKrVGIvYm2a6s_gpLCqzrbOgCVyQeLeYYJNhVN4mSu0lAfPnyKfRxi7qrGis7IjvON52RWPvZag40P1xzFkqfcIzVxTxPPRhD2fYaDDjCEbLi7Q5EUjxgiZcKh5wD6FfeHv0_EYRJ_ZnI5yMrhcvxZEQyCk5Z4J_QvbMil6gKRFXggCiKzBKnwQrKBw_mGtvETiwP3pLqeSRxbpBdplYFyig2OYOP0HTK_npkurJEYtmNnJrlDnQ=w2418-h1630-no)
Test fitting the peg assy:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xj6_Q9UGWVXp3JMcIWY72fEppoWpzIj-xj7UR22uBgYFbwqAylhFWlabsd9-2M0RsimKdjiGZoIKTmMLTq0ciILnh1ng_0vqNey5c9VgVDrbtpi_-kf7Teej-eyjUl7gM8tVegj9WlL0qUoPUq5y3PKD3y1iaVrzMP1OxsXNrUCY1xR3OdVLq84vsgvXnnsfr-wG3OAvT63C6eMkoP8DOq3VP6S1J5WoS6O0eTXJKcKkBvcPEYOnBFWFr0cj3P8vzYWgywJhV1-atQZzj8e2ltJEYNu7ApcDWZNmXVPBPrw_7STVV2msSqzVJxCG3ta1mjuGuBMO6h2HX1k2hSJq0pNxu9EG-W_9WVknv8XUPcp4F41kSORHOy9nWm4-LsygyTyxND6WwjF3kB20zBK0Ykct3aENi7SLh0_L2ck6ePZ3xrm5d5qWRlKSuN8fy5yj042_YyHRZW-5DCkGxwQ0H6Noje11eH5o_dcM1fHXvRx-sq3b7fcAWRBxbLXbfwNn8C5kDTbVNNR5yEFfftbJXF_5_p0I9rzn1Qy825kqOuP1YhkDAqSgsJjukATbyShae1GW9pXk5M0JSaZZP-tftaXeld0LGyUiKz54aV5GBpWrHMEmzNXctSx75cozbJdxxppbL7h9caLzlGbPAkZGtuv_GLZLhWSmIj9dFfOfO3mrhszlPa2s4e5A0YN8IPRyzN9iAHFp1R6FuSPu5kScXaTqzg=w1754-h1870-no)
Now, I needed a way to mount the shifter. Originally I was going to just attach it to the "rearset" plate just ahead of the foot peg but the peg would interfere with the linkage if I did that, so I needed to mount it higher than the peg. I made up a little aluminum plate and bolted it to the peg mounting plate, and then drilled a hole, tapped to M8 and mounted a bicycle cantilever brake post to it. The shifter will ride on the brake post.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3jZuK8rRSo9BXhr7WRmj86r-BYr6Dwf0Twhb-kB44SVmlawbVcKJBq5qdczfpGgGxA1OXSik-c8asXV9nB8jAiJQKNMXLubqiWGqw1ejFNDVcT6l5O3Jv_olanf0j4eWXiiF0X1hL9iOOIlrEXTlHAdTWYCds1NQG6Acy4jBNa-wE9a36iRCffelDtYsNlr1Vr2JscrisuJNx9O89olKC2AX_Wh80REOo-x2KTh1oSS-fJVch4ERbogI-2PMwTreywX4EU1dsOSSEO_n0VOqotjn6ue_XIfQeraTvbYTDUGxauLw9A6AYfAQHeEqcfjVEBmzcfQVqE22PwUGkwxu4ZIKMAzfomEemRovQ-yViKNVKOTiMKinlfmgD7W0TumWG5PQ_bZ6v4MRJ5eWmL0wfzfyV8INJ42tV7UhPAP0ZcSGowYUwZ3SnNC04dz43khpxBKhLl3uYosQJf_qE9yCJhv_UhSOywFQemjnqddz9ZMLfHI5zZBmHbPnbnyTPl6lhjdjnoAvzr4ra3LrQo_E2kAhfn5PzbyVMObk6ptDSLkYlk9knHiAemXc6NVrUXMfzvR_Pt85zAUi7hRCYCbTNg7lvRoQfbFzDtlLYLSTibhaflf18gFf0k2dKRNzepD6r-8SMYJFQc9cGAthfRuB9iRdksovRDAl5e2xxY47XQ6WjNaC0y3e_Dd95PoEbmlTqzoKsBXUplusT7BXtLEGVtMIgQ=w1974-h1868-no)
Then I chopped off the original shifter to make a linkage part, and drilled a hole, tapped with M6. Put on a M6 heim joint for the linkage. Mounted up the shifter, and here it is test fit:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SHgVIO3y7LDKEP7SB3Zz6Vmq6t2n7cFiba2Zb9Fj0gXNQrYzbl53cJInm7cVOofcA9WIg_AB3sT51ZHH7K54aAE0RRluuYsLC5IyCxwOlQWVz2wKhKK0ZxYE585kMdu5E-K3EOAFCcBc-abWHAlWnkzc66b_q2uACwsI8I8zH8caH-78klVDWpsw2ikG1b8bgtBdDKoCAMTv7nJJZUyVhvUQXd7ecFxvtIZUql6nV3vzl_Yjpt4w1BBB4nxgOhDiHP1JTddSi0cTugPq5BbXc_V-rUEdKvx1uBhNbXpWC7t2EjF6G6LYhHtVAea4uBdYydvb9DM6Wb7F-OhFXbcUaFXtGSEihyJTSMLfNnI1vGK96kysgrn-2aKO6eumLLE0NsQ2EggsyNkobUy4TzVf1WKjAQjCnbetL4qYLibrX6Ls4ix4s-M-egdgCcwTO8XHSmX_csViSGmoGcYXjHNMrFYAuE4IcDHAxQwVon93ByHLITgcPcFVV031LhOKW693ILsT1czLceAxKb57L1kvIm-drtK2NkSJ9jGb2zpLm6JXQIMD9ZuL9A8ps88DfxlD5VaaQGDUD64fA0hkNWZWpyskjpkgp3d7KitKR6ztippCrWlf0Bu22Ty0VnwkBTQyDBSHKVOFCP2STZ5fqrjVhVMODPF6oKReIUePGtfaNGdCTpVoC_ZZflEvfK3M4LgmHM6P5J7ut1F-ghG3qR_nYwO7zw=w2116-h1868-no)
I still need to get a M6 threaded rod or screw I can cut off that's about 110-115mm long, then the left side will be good to go.
Still remaining is working out the rear brake MC mounting and brake light switch mounting, which should be easy enough. I will need a longer brake reservoir hose and lengthen the wire running to the brake light switch. No sweat. I just got tired of working on it today.
The issues are about the left side. The center stand is probably going to have to go. With the peg in this position, my heel presses down on the center stand foot pedal. The bigger problem is the side stand, which basically when raised runs right into the bottom of my extended peg assembly. I don't think it's likely that it will fall down on its own so it may really not matter that much, but it wouldn't hurt to have a dogleg-shaped side stand and I need one an inch longer anyway. So I might see if my dad wants to fire up the welder and maybe we fab something up.
In this position the pegs are about 1.5" or so forward from the stock position and most importantly about 4" lower. They are also 1" further out from the centerline of the bike. It's WAY more comfortable for me, and this accomplishes the goal of making pegs that I can stand on, which is part of the "adventurizing" of this bike.
It looks a bit Mad Max right now but once I get everything fabbed up I'll take it back off and sand and paint it to match the frame and my guess is it won't look so nutty. Probably will repaint the whole original rearset plates as well. Remember I raised the rear of the bike about 1.5" or so by virtue of the Katana600 shock, and the front is raised about 3/4" in the triples, so I am not worried about ground clearance or cornering clearance. Also I am using my knock-off handlebar "risers" to set the bars back about 2" from their stock position, since it's quite a reach across that long tank if you adjust the riding position to be more upright. Sitting on the bike with the KX-bend handlebars sitting 2" back from stock and the low-forward pegs, it really does have a similar position to an adventure-type bike, maybe a long version of a dual sport bike.
I'm actually very anxious to get it back together and go ride it. I rode yesterday on the Triumph and again got kind of beat up on some rough roads. There are a TON of these dodgy Texas county roads with occasional gravel sections and extremely poor pavement conditions and the GS with the current suspension just floats over this while the Triumph is punishing. Actually I think my slightly modified GS will be a pretty decent adventure type bike.
For whatever reason it's been raining most of the time in CenTX since August last year, particularly on the weekends. So that means I have plenty of time tomorrow to figure out the rear brake stuff. I'll probably have to wait for Monday to go to Fastenal to get a long M6 bolt to make the shift linkage complete. Then I'll have to wait for it to not be raining to paint all this, but I'm going to wait until after I can ride it some to paint it.
Looks good! I mean if you were typing 'angle with bolts holding it together' I mightve :dunno_black: but it looks like a great start sir.
Thanks. It'll look better once I finish the proof of concept and take it all back off to paint it. I might grind on the parts some more to slick them up a bit. In fact, once I get all of the erector-set type design done and verify it works, I might actually have a set of brackets made up or completely rework the pegs anyway to swap for more dual-sport peg assemblies. In that case I might opt to move the pegs forward even further. This is a work in progress for sure, just finding a peg position that works and getting the mechanical feasibility sorted. I doubt I will ride a whole lot of miles on the bolt-together version of this project.
I need to do a little more work to the shift linkage and reduce flex in the pivot point among other things. That's a head-scratcher of a problem in a couple of ways but I'll get it worked out. I might just pull the center stand and use a torch to heat the arm that the foot pedal is on to bend it so it's lower and not right under my heel. And I still have to figure what to modify about the side stand to make it work better; might just add some spacers and simply move the whole peg mounting assy out about another 1/2" from the center line of the bike just to make the side stand clear. And I am on the hunt for the brake master cylinder relocation. That's just a simple steel plate and a couple of spacers, easy. I'll probably get all of this stuff sorted out by the end of next weekend.
Right now the pegs are 21" below the seat measured from the seat/tank junction. That's exactly the same dimension as my Triumph. And it feels just the same sitting on it. BTW that's nearly 4" lower than stock. That's a really big difference.
I had hoped to get this mostly done this weekend but the reality is I am too busy with other things, especially preparing to leave on a trip tomorrow so I just won't have time to fool with it.
However, I did do some tinkering and make some decisions.
Firstly, I got the shifter side to work, shift gears, and it's close to being able to ride it. But it flexes way too much and that's due to the inherent flexibility of the steel angle, which is just not torsionally rigid. I have considered many ways of doing this and I think my final solution is going to be welding in a brace across the diagonal of the angle section making it sort of a triangle rather than L cross section. While I'm at it, I think I am going to just weld together the two bolted pieces and do so on both sides, and I'm going to weld in a corner brace to match on the right side too making mirror image brackets. Why half-do it?
That means I have to learn to weld :) But that's alright. My dad has a brand new wire-feed welder so when I get back from my trip in a couple of weeks I'm going to take a bunch of scrap and learn to weld, then weld up my brackets.
Which also brings up the point, I can probably also modify my side stand while I'm at it. For that matter I might as well lengthen it too.
And since I'm going to be welding a bunch of stuff, I think I'll fab up a much cleaner and more ideal bracket for the brake master cylinder. I think I've proof-of-concept'd this enough and it's time to just tear it all apart, do the welding, grinding, and paint the whole mess and put it back together. I'll make a weekend project of it. I really want to get out and ride the GS but I want this project to be done with no looking back.
talking to myself here ...
Just got back from Alaska. Will work on this project over the weekend and with any luck get it done.
Decided to braze, not weld. Way easier for a beginner like me and there's plenty of overlap area on this project to make it strong.
Got some 90-degree inside angle gussets to beef up the shifter side mount.
Going to remove the aluminum shifter mount and replace it with a brazed-on 3/16" thick steel plate. That should be a lot more rigid.
And going to fab up a brake MC mount from that same 3/16" steel plate.
Pics when it's done.
Here's an update:
TL;D..W? Welded up peg mounts are a success, will fit the final two or three little things and begin test riding tomorrow.
EDIT: test ride today was a success. still a couple of adjustments and modifications that need to be made, biggest is I need to get the center stand out of my way and shorten the throw of the shift lever.
Was pretty interesting to be back n the GS today. That's just a whole different animal. And far more comfortable with the lowered pegs. I could seriously ride all day on it.
sweet,...that was almost a motovlog!
Funny how the tiniest of things can turn into the biggest pains.
I went to relocate the pivot on the shift knuckle (what's left of the original shifter) to reduce the shift throw and broke an M6 tap off in the hole. This turns out to be a far bigger problem than you might expect. So for the past two weeks it seems I've been trying to drill out that tap. The tap is HSS, same material as typical drill bit so a normal drill bit doesn't work. I tried to crack it with a center punch, tiny cold chisel. No dice. Tried a cobalt drill, absolutely nothing. Today I got a $10 unfluted tungsten carbide "glass, tile and stone" bit to try, which acted like it was going to work but only drilled about 1mm before giving up. I REALLY wanted to reuse this hole! But it appears that's not likely to happen. I'll give it one more try then I will give up, fill the hole and drill another one nearby.
I think with that and remove the center stand it will be rideable.
I was really hoping to make it rideable in time to take it down to Port Aransas this weekend (about a 4 hr drive each way). Just figured the salt air and sand, I'd rather take the GS vs. the Triumph. But the Triumph may wind up being a lot more comfortable on the freeway. And the GS may still be without a shifter.
EDIT: Well the tungsten-carbide bit wouldn't do the deed so I drilled a new hole and tapped it, all is well. Still need to take it all apart again and fill the errant holes with JB Weld, paint, etc, but that can wait until I paint the whole thing.
Next up, center-stand removal and then RIDE!! But I won't be taking it to Port A, nor the Triumph, because I've been elected to drive the Jeep this weekend. Still can't wait to get back on the GS. I miss that old girl.
Argony! :2guns: I was going to suggest a tap remover
(https://i.ibb.co/5BL81YM/s-l300.jpg)
i hope you used left handed bits? They've 'caught' broke taps for me and got them out that way.
anyways you got through it so that's cool. Can't wait to see more pics of your work :icon_mrgreen:
Removed the center stand and rode it a bit yesterday. Gotta do a little more adjusting of the shifter position because I tend to wind up in neutral rather than 2nd most of the time but otherwise it rides fine. Would be happier of the left side was stiffer. I'm going to have to think about how to beef it up but it's completely rideable as is.
Today I hope to go on a longer ride just for fun, get used to the handling again. I'll pick some roads that I avoid on the Triumph because they are too rough. Nice to have the old gs back in action. Maybe I'll make some more video.
Got to ride the GS a bunch yesterday with the newly positioned foot pegs and "adventure" ergos.
I am going to have to lower the shifter pivot a half inch or so an do some other linkage mods. This is a work in progress. But the bike is quite rideable with a nutty character.
It is a hoot to ride it. It feels you're going fast when you're going 45. It's loud and rumbles a lot and is dying to rev. With the 14t sprocket it basically turns into full on hooligan above 50 mph because any move of the throttle makes it jump and it's screaming along at 6-7K rpm in that range. Not docile at all. I may put the fork back up in the triples, currently have it lowered about 12mm. With the different ergos and hard springs (0.90kg/mm) and raised fork the front end is very light which makes it feel very slippy and unstable in tight corners.
Turns out Suzuki engineers knew what they were doing with chassis design. But this is a fun project and so different from the Triumph! I found myself exploring little rough roads to nowhere and having a blast roaring along at 30 mph. I dig this a lot. Just have to do a couple more little mods to the shift linkage and mount to get it dialed in and sort the side stand.
Alright. Three things were getting me down about my lowered pegs modification.
1. the shifter flexed too much. I couldn't figure any really good way to solve this.
2. the side stand interferes with the lower edge of my bracket.
3. the rear brake was at the end of its adjustment range ... although this would have been totally solvable.
So while I was at the Harvest Classic rally last weekend I found a set of BMW adventure pegs complete with mounting plates on a swap meet table for $10. Now I'm going to redo this whole footpeg thing again. This time around I'll just make up one simple 1/4" thick plate and mount the BMW peg straight to the plate, mount the plate to the original "rearset" mounting holes. I can put the shifter on the left side plate directly and it should be way stiffer since there's no big bracket hanging in the breeze. On the other side, I can just transfer the brake lever to the plate and mount the brake light switch and master cylinder to the alu plate.
This should be a lot stiffer, solve my brake clearance issue, and get rid of the side stand interference.
Stay tuned, I'll be working on this in the coming days.
I'm excited!!! Love seeing stuff like this :)
If you can solve the footpeg position of the GS500 in a relatively simple manner I will be very interested in copying you.
My ok but not great solution is the CBR rearsets, which have far more aftermarket foot peg options and more adjustability with the "GP" style shift linkage, plus lowering adventure pegs. Much lower than stock but not far enough forward.
Well my previous solution was iffy at best.
The new solution may be much better. I am going to do this right and make the parts out of plywood first so I can verify they fit and clearance issues are sorted, then use them as a template to make the final aluminum parts.
Both sides will be a two-piece affair. Result should be pegs a couple of inches below the lower foot peg mount bolt hole. Left side will require a certain shift lever, a bronze bushing, a mountain bike V-brake post and a length of M6 threaded rod along with an extra M6 heim joint to attach to the cut-off shifter. Right side should reuse the stock brake pedal and MC.
I'll put up some details.
Trick is going to be sourcing the pegs. But the truth is any pegs that mount with a M10 or so bolt will work, including like the rear pegs on my Triumph, which are abundantly available since all the cafe racer guys remove the rear pegs and mounts so they are a dime a dozen.
More later. I'll be tinkering with this over the weekend as I find time. I really want to get back to riding the GS!
(https://media.tenor.co/images/65d851eaaa416c09a31eac459d2d1cf3/raw)
Wooden templates made.
Left side, two piece affair, the little "L" piece on the bottom holding the shifter is separate from the other part:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WdnqZw2sgeHGQBzSVpOho0icH2-1KvciDCoSe4wJ31ErFijhzxPgZSLLGDPh8d5feM2-QrHA4RDWmRbh6GExVv12xgbbYvNZRDnp0fOite8zT8K6BR-419FLqNDQzr9e2edc9ZRVbknM4pZVh25UJwAKjLpfs3CwewvDyezjcq25s7hULAoiF5_RDN_P0HZ5JLXwA6IU4WKJ_Vwg8G_U8bCI8xRmPyWYwTLgPg2Jqc_ktY64Dwu76GoytAIOeywjtLOOMlqlSfUZOYnWRiyx4wY-AK8aWeNMuy8xFyQPHYByR05fgPRJuUd3VyM8U9l70NMjQ8O1Ai19BdroGToT9i9Ul9ACVurxGhFe2NgcsU6IAyaw6iszSUY3QpGgAqXMG8Tq77yVXnDMY25GConOtJSCtG1wpftd80vhM1OWD9c4BC_WnQ7K-3dqc_uonpUINi9tM8T45OmqUrZ2FpwxUGtQH_RMOZRFq4vzorLbPhs-_MVCTAhDb-LqbAfQ4ohvvZVKXg7ni-2sKa-O-1WD7a75BvBpanQubNw_anqIbBEgXbBJ6LwBqO0oew-grr4o3HasNdF3XBbrOLizgEp70sFy1azz0TQXWb4Bgji5dHO1i4v5697GcAtUpIWIVLfb1Gj7XdG10S1mmC5NpFpdn-wYEpgwVHNOUB_JIhLt_8PLIL1LbHmFoL5FqYIdY35SjI86LJSm_z0fyr0QNKaH9mXQJZWJkLbNYt8Et2zOS-WR6yTlMw=w477-h358-no)
Right side, this is also a two piece thing but the part you can't see is just a spacer:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_Xu9nZodTJlk7cU1rSQltsWN5pJxpZhyH02H4-i0jRE82Hm32yI8PaTg6fF4uuVASHhbeLfeVaugDOJz9V290deMRjGhahJs5HstffDIsyr1C1wE2wY-EQU4EZUzKv0cyKThkQObGDYAnWN7PfYiLRSApsCS4GbjSqryyIgSew-a2FXz8wLunChlUiIazULArHn1UPrYb2vtIHn7Gq0zNmRlfwY6hbtSjmtNNVQuQwnZoIYej_pgrJfN1NNol_Yk5ew_aKkZjgLl601CsX_eTHwcOXswR2bLmHt2_5QKf9rL44RtUhNd-cuJqBo-jY9pIwSj56MPkgBG1rMlUpPKg3XTcUobm4cUVUfg4c2l4HqZW3h_14R_2ZPk4oNXC1nQXo2Se_pzcHg_VCHbts9TCRb4itoZ1KXEamkQhiWJ3Sr1GCi8-gj9bgmkmnLVcSIPRMmMlUiE_DrpFeBYpWjzIkqAoMyJnBLCxzO4zryhD0NLWfYKuY9PRH4yV6RJavZTyPtQx9BDj4heSMl31An6Tg2v2sbJa0hMb9EUrbYwccNrH5yx95jReMdoODSGPpo44m1G4pYEBdguvCgMFCJAInBP7vDLXje0D7zdKp0IsgCPEkC5VQID-NWIaA3lEQSgmnlKcalHbKroHnTaH5pXDnyvvul4CIC0uDcLfC0Ud3N6w9yNcdSuSGb2_IdS4RlgnIgffO3TaBrKrq4buBrnSd662w1S23lv0XsjckiIjKB_gN0yiA=w2492-h1868-no)
I am not 100% sure which direction the bracket is intended to go, but I THINK the 45-deg bevel is meant to be on the bottom (like the RH side picture).
The side stand works fine with this arrangement, but the swingarm is going to come very close to the banjo bolt on the rear brake MC at full compression so I might try to do something else here. I wouldn't mind moving that brake MC out about 5mm. I might try mounting it in reverse, bolts from the inside, which would move it more than it needs to move but I will have to see how the lever aligns with it in that position.
I will have to also work up some spacers for the brake lever. On the stock mount they are welded. I'll probably JB Weld something on there to take up the space.
Tomorrow morning I will cut this stuff out on the aluminum parts. If history is any indicator, this will probably take a month's worth of weekends for me to get it all set but I am pretty stoked about how well the plywood parts fit and line up. Should have done it this way from the beginning.
doing work,...nice!
I got the aluminum parts cut out, basically. Was harder than I expected to cut that 1/4" aluminum plate with my jigsaw. A lot of WD40 on the blade really helped.
Now I just have to work those parts over with a file and angle grinder to get them just right, drill the holes, and after test-fit, paint. Should be easy enough. The hard work was measuring and making templates.
Making progress!
Aluminum parts cut and drilled, ready to test-fit.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/t2KAsqDlOeC4hfONvrz9Hz5PaVy753GLjwq0ascfS9HoTJP3869_DXp4O7pP-ICheqJJfB1912kFSHOrbhxPlRdNzuay3AnRPYBQFA_SDpzkoH7vQHQCHTJEuQ18FBxGZS-anpnQJeNUV6_-eAUhVDJ1318G-pvOlzvFwYAGg8aEJAgWWg9mmJOVxdRtdi3Ih3p-VPmtsZArzHj5v36Eb3d-JvZQk1wyjuUwEScOihPjIiplIdOhblh9RuT2buf3EihTgWApito3pk8Fmw9F6oRKFpVqUHPg1nUF33MuJTsnI913SEdEudGmtS6WKSFdk5xkTIaXNcdEtGnmrE9DzJkFUJ82mf84Hmmmff9rt0rmCMX2z5kAg19i3mVvZtu8ccNvxek5qBmbZlkM0pcP-B8WyEAuBsShgtgCBjh2DQOChSND-X0YO9bO8oY2xOwt9UXPunQq0oRwMJu3wWtZWLaNFhVGc34FGaZjFdV8NtNeFRpMZA6lfKBFVlqJwuEJeDWLSfaEmCzG_0OpnI9eeKVZzdCj2tTNxy2WSPEsebTHnTbnK-yk4kyw_7fmSZHKjn8SQejPX3sTUWS2fHyXYEhcpa7Go8UzJzR7rH-1bS29gkc8eGRUsMJugRsx4mroHSFxgWFaAV_wZw_TWcmOHje3RHmAUF9HPOhIWIuiVIDbU3UUy5OlkRIXfH1wh_CoBXz-JZ4xTQ55_aOaMi6RrdFQrygXZ58wD_07_dBrynHx_70K4A=w1402-h1868-no)
Here they are stacked like they will be installed:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VKAaY1hQ_AyIkEPEY2oMU9BrZUDEOZLnl4RzAf24CCH_1yZA4vV7fp8t0vMZCEMZ7GlN2hRASpxhuj87KpaShKZ0o_UjnwmX1v5_eeIQQ4X93KZkg3Ub1VDTSKEiATSIauHkpdw9vxVFE7fMfTI6oLBjv0EYX0fQk4NSCs-7MsDHispfsAXIJKhXCTP-lVkonTElDmScbI-YoMlvy11t4cYmqEM2xkVbqTN7pKxGjGMCrIutuxYdP-CiXxKL93FyFqlFEb1YEL92G0zl1FY1ngpboBbvtTeCRHS71BlOQe2taAbjLxWGPd-hp6UN9BfpDCcm7DieqN2xzzZf5UdW3lwhjXE6GaeHtQza7h9-JMz1SzsW7qX7Vm1oWIJkRUFEpQ6PaV0vpoqrkjevqyEZLK6Wwi9n__26JgJ65KcVy7r5Z21vpRusdK20Kk3Q4FbbBNe_PlBirHuoJM5FW1aGqp2Ai6lrX7AitbxXQ_yL2Fhg7hN5nTCzliE0BiRsNfH28V5c50hv5peUXg7Oc6IxUdzecMS8asmKqimMA7LeTz77Mc2lsvhniQGRQ20WGyxX6z7pwKKlpFL3X6EhhgDjet71j3pkggOjBxbLKSoqbwvxt06qACNKtem_QVL9P9oEbLaqqCKmVGX4O1maQXD_FS7raZyZBbgK2Hx8BrIta-Aw6UYspycalcSxOJX8SPPyeU_v4oTGwUKcleslPEGiXYH7OMuKGVB4z-OuEQLTrrT9KOKZ-g=w2492-h1868-no)
What's left?
1. drill-up and tap the hole where the shifter post (a mountain bike V-brake post) will go (only has pilot hole now)
2. cut down the shifter post (it's too long, protrudes through the mounting hole, will touch frame)
3. cut and fit the shift linkage rod (shorter now than before)
4. reroute rear brake hoses so they are not in a crazy bind
5. make/find/etc. spacer to mount the rear brake lever, actually need one on each side of the brake, inside needs to be about 5mm or so, outside more like 15mm. Going to look for steel sleeves for this job
6. put it all together for test fit and test ride
This was WAY easier than my first effort! Man, aluminum is a lot easier to cut, shape & drill than steel. And no welding! Here's hoping it's strong enough. Should be able to fiddle with it more later today or this evening. Supposed to rain all day today and tomorrow. Maybe I will get lucky and be test riding on these by Thursday.
That's almost the exact stuff I made my headlight brackets, heel plates and hand guard mounts out of. I love working with it, plus it's super light... however I do know what you mean about the cutting part!!
I remember I looked through my stuff from college and still had this stick of wax we used in a Jewelry and Metals class I took. Kept coating the blade of the saw with it and it worked much better.
Very much enjoying your work.
Look at those straight lines!
(https://media.tenor.co/images/ecc920ac62a6f468125b3b6c1ae67552/raw)
much respect! I suck at getting my lines anywhere close to that straight w my jigsaw!
Wax! That's a great idea. I have a hunk of paraffin that I'll use to lube bits next time.
Re: straight lines? Well I didn't cut it that straight with the jigsaw. I cut it not straight with a jigsaw, then marked straight lines using a combination square and a utility knife, and used a combo of a bench grinder and flat file to grind it to the scribed line. It's not close to perfect, but it's not bad, an good enough for, being honest, a $900 motorcycle.
Sweet work Josh!
V-brakes?!? Now that's a sign of a veteran mountain biker. Sure you don't want to go with cantilevers? :icon_mrgreen:
Well I needed some kind of post to use as a pivot for the shift lever and I had these laying around. I'm sure you can still get them readily. But it does require a bronze step-down bushing to work with the lever I have.
I guess I could have used a shoulder bolt, but finding just the right one would have been tougher than just using something I had in my box of junk.
I forgot about the brake light switch ... so that's one more thing I have to do, along with that add some kind of post for the brake pedal return spring. So a little more drilling & tapping. But I did get the LH side mounted along with the shifter. Still haven't mounted the shift linkage. I'm in no hurry. World Series is tonight. I'll probably get this all together tomorrow. Odds are good I'll be riding it by the weekend.
Got the LH side mounted up and the shifter mounted and adjusted. It flexes, but not nearly as much as it did with the other mod.
However, in doing this I realized a MUCH better way to do this. Or at least a very good way to beef up the shifter mount against the frame and eliminate ALL flex.
RH side is going to be a bit more complicated. Mounting up the peg, brake lever and MC is no sweat. What IS sweat is the brake light switch, which was a problem before as well. I think I might try to solve this in a whole different way. Maybe I'll just put a cable and a little pulley of sorts and then I can mount that switch anywhere I want. If it weren't for my banjo bolt clearance problem I'd use one of those hydraulic pressure switches that replaces the banjo bolt but it would almost definitely hit the swingarm. But this is a solvable problem.
ah cmon,... " I realized a MUCH better way to do this" and no pic :dunno_black: :laugh:
well I haven't actually done it yet.
I did, however, get the left side mounted and adjusted:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3SSGxfn4KQDQnWAe-6MT4hRNWq0E13f8MKmZJUmI3lPoKIYUhw7TnRQj1HHApo3pqstpQlE7ZdX11z-cDBX811djPfgHZmqwN8svPeZ84uH8bhCLhLeBXIjoGxzASmuhvMvNPIX4RHruLObvFlnI2tS84XNjXdGbbs3xZ43oRzPX_37q9A1QJShffkzQ3eUfwpfw_R5VIC38OKCLOgUa0zS1_HWG6IcYqbhyyNGpPBMdD-5d_F8V-UMGhkMnxtB5E6Mu1t6cgBarN-b63YZ6GVuqg9zAjpV-wjVXu_QwrhkAdKGqtAzQoMEagXAnXCi1A6wDZsZdk3IZewzFNVyBsI4SjOa-TT1FovZMPyw5R7zVd2NdCcnAbwVwVbqGSW-NQj3Fb0r3WVXeOAPAtUi3gvFf13MTJ5mVz4N5ag6__RqTQFAMWi8lw15p-sYnNRfcaejdGdxRbTDjtbj1EQgSYzSgsDb8Zn8UnNGF-f4FZxOG1Ob1B97e7JoV5KGRD7PWubWs3Pp3Ied6Lfrn_jJeXgLLu4dc659_6BCO8RGZMwEpLtqRYNRic5PVxe9rclSAKvs7VOkkVOoPxTtC14GreXuHSjcwZ6c8WqfLgMy1ETiXOw-12ETGPbrQD0FXlp9itw4HcWGcEmUCdKaaGUt7-6q1X7QkcAoXvrbFZxZZypB1MIJHMsOYW1yfPEq9GJDovEDxob-NCUDWKebRRNhdN4-TJY5bYbB5ZCOcA4GCg6csmtV6MQ=w469-h323-no)
Right side? I pressed a 5/8" ID 1" long steel sleeve into the hole to carry the brake lever axle and reinforced it with JB Weld. It's curing now. Should be able to mount it tomorrow. Still calculating how to get the brake light switch to work but I have ideas. And the brake pedal return spring is another little problem I have to solve, but I think this will be easy, just have to find a place to stick a screw to act as an anchor spur.
I was hoping to be riding it this weekend but I didn't have enough time to work on it. I'll tinker with it this week, should have it on the road in a few days, maybe, or by 2021.
Right side, test-fit. Still to mount the brake light switch, reroute the brake hoses and find a spot for the brake fluid reservoir.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xGYANquMD1GO4OJXqYU9WkSB-dQdAZMQyelbdbrRbAwBby3Rb6HZgmPNdCZCNezSrMqBt5MmI4xHbnrP6biRVFoIho4MgjPq3aBMXAArWbmvj42ffe-NQwFtOWCWaDd_e6HnlqqT8y8Yx9pWIfDtoroI0nvxalF51UFJGGpqBrOLmNrhCGWQezZXu134rMJkQMwQG2UOf4Kw9NgGdPk90jCPYXrqTwyp-Ee9eXQAzeYm3bc6xMTrjXJjBXHoBRV2ZvbKX3BMyUlBDncwMgb-NZg2A2qCGqMrRDLyroTRH1LqiNrT18WiBv1Z4cG9c-qQUrc0cOb0eaoL4h0p2kZyq486l9soO3aE7hwMuz-ksHx9nqpf721XvmFf5doru4nUu44RKRJVKD7D7ZhetTYkmF63foaOfNPfR0jXIim-rBzGFE4cRlvy5Vxt_mBUYKBBHoA-Kf23DravU5saKCEOzVZX6fCxVpccMPRd7Z3vwJ3sXchXrYaSlIqPuwjvHq6NmahySSDZzZMbcYFsuUUT20ojNVBxPR0BBDwRUV6l8GzW68YwXSj17NTxKmPZkp-OZFohi276JBSvsbcFTryWsT7dCuKUqKBHcjs3W3SAoPFee-fLPJ1dplNCROxTK200a_LPBxHhhhDmJ-C7XImuEl7dOCU2a3Ta2XS1xHu7jlKluxiwNyl1wtPv_fy3z8tO8QQiwNTx73N8R5x720gcu94uxdhnF_l_yuSoYyCJWSUGZVywFw=w2280-h1820-no)
Here it is, all put together on the right side and ready to test ride:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4hUZ1yNVZzUgqs1nLNj0M7cKkrFtn90GA0ZuYkOXaSuks6K0ZtNo55kK2HPrdbfXyGTAom5dVLmKBj9Xyw5qI9K67K0ZPPcuj06-2OVNNhu5qGdqKtBTxHic-81t4Iyxb6LAZLY16dxJfSP3EAHjzzQxBNUcuUcoVvreCHnrKOtrKdZd11APQ58rGI1ecvu91SHCWRXU7uCj_EWCkxngmWYGzZ_UI9WqK_sqS3__yCjAdixF6KlryOoZRVtzaGsxeHk0bHeGxtojwXVVSFoOU-zlonmitz8uQEFJHCSX6bKzb6Lr8FmSALiY6OwsJdsjM9THg6vswrmadl_UUvAItLKeq39UjXipsyQ7ZPa50SDebvUCaMR4tslIwgdrawWllzAfLLen9CJbliqFEVs_yezkiQklwZIYnKUxqWhVQSCtW_GS0wh3GT2ejuRF_fGkaMXWBgagqWKdp-lvcFQwOd_zhVXL194L_VFfz_xGTCuSY6pvxkwaDXVNouurnrPyYGzeviG_X5FLNXO4zZuJAlGhP1Av9_DnC1HxS7eoZaGxMlEUssrmgBgXsoyhdqqAzfjYyT_YEhQsEoMIlPcphMoKzbdt2uMnZsvzPveJj3DRMwQwPS8itijL2RpJezJjYro-9UGyA1mcj6Jfq7FyzB8574qM4_pKDXLCiHFMQboVQp4f9Kg-igXRQxy7llXvs5eUUx0kir32-BIhNFlmZUIwcVG2dJBItY00mVRhdr2VEIfZGA=w2404-h1820-no)
I still need to get a longer hose for the brake reservoir so I can mount it back up under the number plate. It's currently zip-tied to the frame just so I can test ride this. I also need to get shorter pins to hold the pegs in but that's far from urgent, the ultra-long pins work fine, just look odd.
I haven't mounted the rear brake pedal return spring but I am not sure yet that I need it. But once I test ride and make sure everything fits and works, I'll probably put a screw to anchor it somewhere and put it back when I take everything apart for paint.
I am now suddenly super excited to ride my GS. I pumped up the tires. I'm determined today to ride it until I have to switch to reserve so I can put fresh gas in it. It has had this gas in it for maybe a year. With any luck these mods will put it into a more regular rotation. As much as I adore my Triumph, I wouldn't mind actually using the GS for these little close to home errands that are all under 40mph and of course it will excel at rough county roads where the Triumph really punishes me.
The front tire, Pirelli Scorpion, has maybe 2-3K on it. Rear tire has less than 200 miles on it, Michelin Pilot Street Radial. I really want to put more gravel-friendly tires on the GS, and my Triumph's rear tire is getting close to the end of its days. So I am thinking of just pulling the wheels off of both bikes, buying a set of Shinko 705s for the GS and having the shop just switch the GS's tires over to the Triumph wheels and mount up new Shinkos on the GS. The Triumph has Avon Road Riders and there's a lot I don't like about them besides the fact that the rear tire is probably 70% worn, I think it'll work great with my Pirelli/Michelin combo.
So today I'll go ring out this setup and hopefully get in a long enough ride to blow out all of the old gas.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Tnhf9f0l8_omXV3k8c6NRA4cFMcEJWnO5ChIQR05-XUCHjwfn1dr7ayUZba9znSBqSo9hT0J6mXlGSLYi3ZvUAy5Qh7fadTjW_-wp4D1agytLbjkf55VyagIndn0Ja07aHgmmu5YiGsYI4t7hjJz2NniRU98Jm1g6eSkQkY4KuZNZHmOmxfRbcEGXGw_l5K2QENd4kxu7WKu24SBJ4XZZStxQ4Rch2knwkEefuBEd175OWZIPTfbrxJ5AYUQ7NpP5R4vfR8KWXbwWIzEsRaeNYi4xwp-NQLAFn-D2E4QI751zVsCE_9QZkcqyoc_vkIMbhUrPaTfKWmhrBuSFbvXF1QG6gZYCT1Z4zo3eydiLpF2WIEo4uhDtccCQPnlPtzQiS19SkzxTVkqhuAZQ154uZ5UKhVinwnV_-ZoTYpNtVpHdbuSNh8zhhUXGlajMbYTEBjugdfDsr3MUFAEL_EmLBlcK59eJJ9iuzlUwzJSQTFiHf1C2e3Qi6N-md6qBU13hmzfBo058b2IVy2JLvfIL3Uv0HFR0tSGsbwhzP1sFMzV_FK_MDXlctZwFyB1L7gX79FUt5WWfl_wYdIgVGZizsqWjM29h4K7LTId3_lEcZODFFofULo697-rJPkLWwO7BpzFv-_kKu3XwRC-NrJ1VajYW9Rmr-W7-ybSOeCmv50HKj2M9PH5ADnj__wdoZbzodIxmJxn4Z6l55QnYlhLj4rcByr2KkyBU2YrUdV5N4FwecwCQA=w2490-h1820-no)
Test ride was an amazing success. It took me a little bit to get used to the higher center of gravity, more steering offset and lower weight of the GS vs. my Bonneville but once I did the bike was just a hoot to ride.
Now to do the clean up work and mark this as done.
BTW I did notice that you have to be really deliberate to weight, or push, the inside handlebar in a turn on the GS compared with the Triumph. The Triumph at low speeds almost wants to turn itself but you have to really turn the bars on the GS. And at speed the front end of the GS feels very light compared with the Triumph. I think this has a lot to do with changing the riding position or ergonomics, maybe the hard front springs, maybe other things. It was unnerving for the first few miles on the GS but then I got used to it and it all worked out.
The GS was such a joy to ride, I was reminded how much I like the character of the engine and chassis. It's going back into the rotation. In fact I think I might prefer the GS for all of my around-the-neighborhood rides like to the grocery store or wherever else I go with less than 45mph top speeds.
winning right there,...
Cant wait to see the final rendition,...
It's rainy and cold here. And I have 6 yards of gravel in the form of about 3.7 1 yard pallets and about 2.x yards in a giant pile all in the driveway between where my GS is parked in the garage and the road.
So no riding. But the crazy thing is, I really want to ride my GS!! But I have an almost literal mountain to move before I can. Started with 8 yards of gravel and now down to about 6 total to move but that's still about 18,000 lb of rocks that have to get from my driveway to my front yard before I can go ride.
Grr.
More Riding the Renegade .. or is it a GS500-X ? Or maybe ... what's the Japanese equivalent of "Multistrada?" Is this a Suzuki Ōkunodōro?
After moving some of my rock pile I opened a corridor between the garage and the road just barely wide enough to very carefully pull the GS out and put it on the street. I was going through withdrawal for a motorcycle ride after the weather turned very nice so I had to do something! It was a pretty delicate operation getting the GS out around the piles and pallets of rocks but worth it. However, there's now way I could get the bike back in. The hill is making it a real challenge. Of course we have rain coming again on Thursday and Friday so I now have to either move two 1 cu-yard pallets of gravel in the next three days or concede to leave the GS out in the rain.
I decided to use the GS for errands on the weekend even though it was very cold in the morning when I had to do them -- about 35F. With no fairings of any kind and really 2-season gear (summer and half of Fall and half of Spring) this was really too cold to be riding. But it was basically low-speed under 45mph neighborhood errands so I did it anyway. The bike was very difficult to start in the cold and I noticed some small amount of fuel leaking form the bottom of the carbs somewhere. Choke doesn't really seem to be working right. Not only will the lever not stay where I put it on the bar, sort of springing back to half-choke all the time, but even if I hold it, the bike doesn't do the 5k rpm revving. Also after the bike sat for several days it had to be put on PRI to start at all. I think this must be related to the fuel drops I saw on the top of the engine: it must be draining the float bowls while it's sitting. Likewise once it gets running after great effort the bike bogs and won't run under load until it has been running and warming up for a few minutes. Trying to ride away after it has only been running on the side stand for a minute or so results in a stall. This is not how it was running a year ago when I was riding it regularly, that's for sure. Just love how carburetors have a life of their own.
On top of that, during the course of these rides, especially with the lower gearing (14t), it is clear that I need to jet up. IIRC I am running 125s now, but the bike really does basically quit accelerating at about 8.5K rpm in any gear, which is right where it should be cooking. It also has a bit of a hesitation around 3-4K rpm under big throttle changes, and really only runs like it should between about 5K and 8K. I think both sides of this may be the same problem, just need to bump one jet size. So I have a set of 127.5s on the way. I'll swap them in when I pull the carbs to find the fuel leak, clean the fast idle jet, and see what else is not happy in there. Guess it's a good thing that I have gotten good at working on carbs on this bike. But it did remind me just how much I am spoiled with the fuel-injected Triumph which starts instantly and runs essentially perfectly in any temperature no matter what.
OK, enough of the toils of carbureted motorcycles. Aside from my frozen hands those errand rides were fun. Again I was reminded how quite different it is to the Bonneville. Then Sunday afternoon, the weather was nearly perfect at about 65 degrees F and sunny, so my dad joined me again and we rode the Volente Rd - Lime Creek Rd (look it up on youtube!) which is right next to my house. Now, I know everyone thinks Lime Creek Rd is where you go to test the handling limits of your Panigale or GSXR1100 (or your Lotus or Porsche...) but in reality this is where the Lil' Renegade (or GS500-X?) really shines. I have ridden my Bonneville a dozen times or more on this road and it works well but it's very different. The GS's high-revving, high-strung engine by comparison just adores this hilly road littered with crazy 15mph turns. Once you are in the 6K rpm range the bike really has more than adequate power and accelerates great. And the sound!! Oh the sound!! The crackling on decel is glorious, and it just sounds so fabulous when it revs. This Chopped-down Yoshimura is magical.
The thing is, if you keep it below 5K it's a docile little mouse. You can stand on the pegs and just putt around in first gear and dodge pot holes or look for a parking spot like a prairie dog commuter if you like. But once you get the revs up it's just a highly engaged, interactive, glorious analog experience. The suspension is stiff and reminds you that you are doing something. The light weight of the bike is held high which keeps you on your toes because you are constantly reminded that not putting your body weight right will unload the front tire and it feels like it'll slip so you have to really kiss the mirror on turns, but it rewards you with progressively quick cornering and abundant grip. If you keep the revs up then you can keep the bike in 3rd gear on these 40mph roads with 15mph turns and just engine-brake into the corner with popping and crackling and fanfare, then roll on the throttle through the turn and come out of the exit with this howling tenor on the way back up to about 7-8k rpm when you get back off the throttle for the next turn. It's not that it's loud, it's just that it's constantly talking about what's going on, and it demands your attention.
I was again just reminded how much character the old GS has. It has quirks. You have to know how to ride it. But it pays back with abundant smiles if you get it right, or even if you try.
So yesterday, after riding the GS alone for a week or so while the Bonneville sat resting in the garage, I was really glad I didn't sell last spring, when I was really tempted to. It's not going to displace the Bonneville as my daily rider, but I'd regret not having this breath of fresh air around to take from time to time. The foot peg relocation and improved (for me) ergonomics put this bike right back into the rotation for me.
Anyway, by contrast the Bonneville is easy to ride and relaxing. It's effortlessly powerful and you can just leave it in 3rd gear and come out of those 15mph turns at 2K rpm and it just doesn't care. It carries all of its heavier weight very low making it really easy to put into turns without a lot of histrionics from the rider. The Bonnie is a joy to ride, but in a really different way. I mean, it's a 20-years-newer motorcycle built with a whole different philosophy. The Bonnie is easy to live with every single day. There's no trick to starting it, no big punishment if you look at the scenery for a moment every now and then, little danger of stalling or laying it down if you find yourself suddenly in the wrong gear after a corner. You basically don't have to be 100% "on it" every moment on the Bonneville. But the GS, well you basically have to be 50% more engaged all of the time. It is exciting and fun as a vacation from the norm but would be exhausting daily, and I remember when I was riding the GS daily, it was exhausting. The mileage numbers don't lie. In 3 years I rode my GS about 5K miles. In one year I rode the Triumph about 4K miles. It's not really that the Triumph is more enjoyable, it's just way easier to live with every single day.
Welp, sorry for the long post. I was just feeling pretty happy about my GS adventure. It's back o the road now at least until the rain comes later this week and the Bonneville is stuck in the garage so it'll be my daily ride for a few more days, then once I am done with this rock project and the jets come in I'll take her apart, probably finish the last little pieces of my foot pegs job (paint, maybe? try to reinforce that shift lever a little bit), but I'm going to put the GS back into a regular rotation. Maybe I ride the Triumph every day for routine stuff but those moto-therapy rides I take once or twice a week over on Lime Creek Rd. or down 1431 might be better suited to the GS.
great read! Thanks for sharing,... My favorite: "The crackling on decel is glorious, and it just sounds so fabulous when it revs,"..... I love riding that bike. Perfect write up of its character
:D
I totally agree. I have a few other fancier, more powerful bikes in the garage, but there's something about the little GS that makes it so fun to ride!
Granted mine's been modded a bit, but the combination of its light weight, suspension and easy handling make it a blast on curvy hills :cheers:
You know it really reminded me of driving my 240Z. Same kind of bonzo soundtrack and visceral experience of just having to be in control of yourself and everything. It's like it just cranks your senses to 11.
FWIW I am not sure my GS out of the box would have been this way. Endo, this I think is where you and I might have similar experience. There are a couple of choice mods involved here: stiffer suspension, the right exhaust, dialing in the carbs, 14t sprocket. Transforms the character of the bike. I have to remind myself of this every time I hear someone condescendingly refer to a GS500 as "a commuter bike". You'd have to be a masochist to commute daily on mine, at least around here where the average commute is 40 minutes each way alternating between 65mph freeway and stop and start gridlock. But you'd have to be a robot to not want to ride it just for kicks every once in a while down roads that don't go anywhere you need to be.
240Z !?! That's a classic! Would love to add a 3rd Gen RX-7 to the tinkering workshop one of these days :)
Now if I could only figure out how to get my GS to have something like 70hp / 50 ftlb torque I'd pretty much have my dream bike...
Quote from: Endopotential on November 18, 2019, 07:55:14 PM
Now if I could only figure out how to get my GS to have something like 70hp / 50 ftlb torque I'd pretty much have my dream bike...
Suzuki already makes your dream bike. The SV650!
The GS500 does make a great commuter bike. Good mpg, just enough power (it will sit at 90 mph all day if you ask nicely), and cheap maintenance.
Quote from: Endopotential on November 18, 2019, 07:55:14 PM
240Z !?! That's a classic!
Yeah. Wish I still had it!! I traded it for a Toyota station wagon years ago when we were hard up for family transportation. But what a car!
Quote
Would love to add a 3rd Gen RX-7 to the tinkering workshop one of these days :)
Yeah, agreed. I had a 2nd gen RX-7 that was given to me, a complete car in great condition except it must have had apex seals shot because the thing never did start so I sold it for $200. One day the 3rd gen will be classic supercars alongside NSX and Supras of the era. I also had (on sort of long term loan) a 2nd gen MR-2 which along with my 240Z were our "family car" solution for several months... we would caravan everywhere in the two sports cars with a child seat in the passenger seat of each car. Then the MR-2 was sold and I traded the Z and the rest is history.
In the end my Miata was a better sports car than either of them.
Quote
Now if I could only figure out how to get my GS to have something like 70hp / 50 ftlb torque I'd pretty much have my dream bike...
HP is easy. Put a chopped GSXR head on it and find a way to keep the crank from breaking when you rev it to 12K rpms all the time and you'll make 70hp all day long. Torque is another matter.
I disagree that a SV650 is the same thing though. A water-cooled V-twin has to have very different character from an air-cooled 180-degree parallel twin. Maybe you, like me, should be looking for a Ducati M695.
Pulled the carbs yesterday for a rejet. The 14t sprocket made it evident that the bike was running out of steam at too low of an rpm. It had 125s in it, I went to 127.5. Also noticed that the carbs are leaking a little bit from the float bowl gasket, and the right side carb had a lot less fuel in it than the left. Guessing storage without riding for weeks at a time coupled with my excessive side stand lean are contributing to this. I'll fix all that eventually.
Ok so jets.
Bike definitely goes better at wot and above 7k. Still doesn't do what I think it should at 9k. But a little stumble or hesitation coming from low throttle at under 5k to wot has come in with the bigger jets. I think it's rich in that range. Probably need to reset the idle mixture.
Went on a 75 mile or so ride through back roads yesterday and it was a treat. Bike is dripping with personally. Plenty quick as long as I don't try to ride it under 5k rpm. There's some weirdness in the steering at low speed tip in that always makes me feel like it is slipping, and I would like to figure that out. Maybe I just need more tire pressure up front. Running 33/36. With the different ergos from footpeg and handlebar changes the front feels very light. But the whole thing feels very light and slightly top heavy compared with my Bonneville.
Anyway, I think even bigger main jets might be worth trying. I have some 132.5 that I might put in. But I wish I could lower the needles in that case.
Interesting! Really enjoy reading the saga of figuring it all out. Much better than doing it myself :2guns: haha
Mine is similar on the power under 5k. I thought maybe something was wrong with it, but it's just asking me for more throttle. A 'treat' is a good way of describing it, as it's a blast. I run around 40 on all my bikes. Why 33/36?
33/36 is recomended stock tire pressure IIRC. The Triumph is 33/38.
Quote from: cbrfxr67 on December 09, 2019, 08:52:50 AM
Mine is similar on the power under 5k. I thought maybe something was wrong with it, but it's just asking me for more throttle. A 'treat' is a good way of describing it, as it's a blast.
I had a bit of a stumble before (read a few pages back) which I definitely found to be too-rich coming off idle. It turned out to be non-stock needles. Putting stock alloy needles in and the 125 jets fixed the stumble and made the light-throttle, low-revs running much better, but at the expense of top end. The 14t sprocket basically results in you running higher revs all the time so the lack at higher revs was apparent.
I think there may be some interaction with the main and pilot jet. Everyone always tries to tell me that it "runs on pilot" except at big throttle openings and big rpms but objectively that doesn't seem to be true. I think by increasing the main jet size it made it richer at idle or just off idle. I might have to retune the idle mixture to be lean at real idle to get it lean enough coming off idle with bigger jets, and in that case maybe 130 or 132.5 will work better. I have a set here ... maybe 130 or 132.5. Might be worth a try.
Another thing I noticed, since removing the center stand, working on the bike on the side stand really is a lot harder. My old method of removing the tank bolts, shove a 2x4 under the rear of the tank to tilt it so I can get a screwdriver on the tank petcock, well that's tricky now because the tank wants to slide off when doing this on the side stand. Gonna have to figure out another way to do this easily. Bungee cord from the right side handlebar?
Another thing I noticed is that both of my last two long rides on the footpeg-modified GS have resulted in serious pain in my left foot. I have a neuroma in that foot (well, both, but the left is much worse) so it's prone to problems anyway. Previous ride, I was wearing some worn boots that exacerbated the problem, but with my new boots I still had a problem, albeit less. I'm really not sure what's causing it. I'm beginning to think it's vibrations in the pegs. The GS transmits a lot more vibrations from the engine to the rider than my Triumph does, and the Triumph doesn't give me this foot pain really at all.
Awesome that you're having such a great time on your bike Josh!
I love riding mine, but have no comparison to what a really nicely tuned GS would ride like.
On my Christmas wishlist - I wish there was some way for us to have GS Moto Rally together so we can all see each other's creations in person.
You're in Texas, I'm in SF; I think Showbiz and Buddha are East Coast? I suppose Kansas has some nice flat roads, though they're probably buried under 5 feet of snow currently... :confused:
That would be really neat for sure :cheers: I am indeed on the East Coast (western Pennsylvania) and I think Buddha is in one of the Carolinas.
Texas is kind of in the middle, right? Long ride to SF. Or Pennsylvania.
That's be a great adventure on my gs for sure!
New tires got here a couple of days ago.
I took the rear brake bar off and gently coaxed it to allow enough tire clearance with my 4 lb sledge hammer, then touched up the paint.
Now on to the tire mounting. I hate doing this job. Called a shop to see whether they'd do it, they want $60/wheel to mount tires. Man, what a racket!
Later this afternoon I plan to try swapping the tires myself. I have done it before, it's just not much fun. And of course the old tires from the GS are going onto the Triumph, so I have to do four of them.
EDIT: got too busy with my day job to work on the motorcycle, and now it's raining today and tomorrow, which basically means I can't take the stuff out of the garage that's in my way where I need to work. I considered how to get the bike off the ground now that I removed the center stand and decided a rear swingarm stand from HF for $33 is the way to go, so I may go pick one of those up. That way I can support the rear of the bike with the HF stand and lift the front with ratchet straps from the ceiling and pull both wheels at a time safely. As for the Triumph, my dad brought over his motorcycle jack so I can take it off the ground with that, giving me ability to have all four wheels off at once. Then I might be tempted to haul four wheels and two new tires over to Cycle Gear and tell them I should get the "Watcher Discount" (ha!) for mounting everything up... Or just pay whatever they ask, or price-compare with RideNow... If I can get $20/wheel I'll be happy to pay someone else.
$20 is worth the pita! Hopefully that works out!
My dad texted me yesterday wanting to go for a ride, and given that it was a beautiful Central Texas winter day, sunny and 73F, I couldn't resist. I geared up on the Triumph and then he texted me and told me his Honda Shadow wouldn't start, so he was bringing his DR200. That basically meant back roads riding only at low speeds since he's loathe to ride the DR topped out at 60mph. Again I decided to take the old "Renegade" out. We rode over an hour, and it was quite nice. Again I am shocked with how light the GS is, so easy to park!
Even after jetting up to 127.5 and knocking the front sprocket down to 14t I am still getting 50mpg. But I did notice yesterday that I still have a bit of a stumble and drop in power at about 8500-9000 rpm WOT. Maybe I went the wrong way with the jets, maybe they need to go back to 122.5. I need to read the plugs and see what they think. Bike is powerful and quick when underway, no running problems, but it just kind of hits a wall with a bit of a sputter when approaching 9k rpm and it should rev right past that no sweat.
Still haven't gotten around to swapping the new tires on. I had high hopes of doing that yesterday but ran out of time with my other project that is literally "in the way" (in the garage). I should finish that up today with any luck. Ditto that fabbing up a mount for the rear brake reservoir which is still zip tied in place. And while the front wheel is off I think I'll swap in a new set of brake pads that were kindly given to me by a fellow GSTwinner.
Oh yeah, I noticed that while riding with the balls of my feet on the pegs, my right heel occasionally touches the back of the muffler. I think I might just make up a heat shield to prevent me from ruining my boot.
Got the tires swapped today. Sport demon / pilot street radial combo is now on the Bonneville and the shinko 705s are on the GS. Zip tie method worked well.
Man, do the 705s handle differently! Bike feels squirmy and wobbly. I put 32 psi to start, thinking I need less in the front and more in the rear. Might try as high as 36 in the rear and down to 30 front. Anyone have ideas? Other forums suggest these tires on a v Strom would be like 39-41 psi for street riding, but I imagine my GS probably weighs 100lb less than a DL650.
Oh and I broke the rear brake line on the Triumph while changing tires. So the GS will be my main ride for the next couple of weeks until I get the Bonnie fixed. Still $20 for don't used brake lines is less than 10% of what I would have paid to change the tires.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uFQ1qARhyh5sZDhg8ABEwnHRFobk18RCM0aB0bI0iOpl-puuAVxHfmUmXS-ZA-7FweunOtUM-BjMqN4wGj802d6Aysb8-0SLZXeuOFgzwjKdetDa7QeW3hc5nGoMvnXhgsLrtLNoabRpYVJ4jCN15z9S7m-jR4TObdx7NIBACBmkNJzECXCWaykrMq4KVld6OAhTTOOXuA_lylKIrU54gNUpA_ilVz_1qXBk3JJ1LbI1UTlXFb_IDfisfXrjzUwtFk5ld3OzaAtj6MzkTUxnPlATre2Zs4iyffu0aV_IQKCHHIDG_R1oxudOnJigs0ZiPK360l5kmDaNBzmFLd0NmDvZukuXjFaTUDCDRISDDRWWr4TPHYqCnjE4DTc5TMTwul7KYk7He1n7IM2BlEZQwnlmwQ_TfFYmZWXIMuoh6Aku9B3fKmenFjYqP-mvtnHRSDduKZhdcggCXzCOB8EtvQ4SqhwI93a_xIC2Y5SMsDbhTOcRnKoI2S3wvJ1sWArbjUOq6rKVXgTRC-IbhsAtAZpPtzvq9Gt-aUv1MpxgnsVdyn62cp_vVkl8AsxkfeVhs79QaHZ82bG4jvgF6wQrSxctk-PKVSGsfv3tr2dqIgD-zXB-e9w5xPo_li1e7rPjnI-AjsGcs1eZfDQgBuVyRgRAF6HODfK_MMT7_28Rl5-G2c-JEn2ISaXZ=w795-h1059-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JGSw2V-imhRnraDhUYlhZqa3JRIzbdZTlOqmJat916h4r6Fksu7WlGL4ar7ZTDqLK7NGKt2lBK82FAUalInwJcYAxchXazIZ8wc7mV-Gb63bLo0yFb1JxUrMDlD_zEx4ItTfYGqvyEyHznyv1zu6wgLBXx6me3eDP9bGJPNMz4qM1ar9YpyuJCF2mifFa3fWEWpPV2GTFeWH-DM_LehEVzy_-emngfmwfYlRWscfN4df3ECXjvg0P8ymQxW9HbAxmLAITaDz-n4zwwdd5dcfG5OE0yCFCqa0D5LK_uhujgnDD5SZB8hYdpSBRb63s7DnecIX3LGPiWRUry09NK4h7La_Q0Www8NNJccXgJgNEnLngQxQn4gHsjCGtPw5rKSIomPinoNp6vawHBA3uoKoVDlCs1ER2Q9PUX-welNJHqgA0-lagA6TPFNSpL31DGWZ9dLeJX38YqO-73Yp_a9M-1wh9TfZQ6jKe9IucNR2YbKKZfvNKZTIG5eseR_PrEGxwT48X0zcVMp7neGJq7QIJD0nLPiZK12_zNyyug0tBBe7GuwvlzFWGljA8f0l_ueyefz6rjEJe0AaPcjztkx4exzGxqUxoO1chi65YctBW0CtP6u51tGg9bLB8ACZjRrz7aCAZu0wrDqE2nth4QyYnP4vHGaEnevR2wClEzWNt3MsaLDP0u5-R_aB=w802-h602-no)
Pics no worky,... but I always go 35-42 :dunno_black: I think you schooled me before on that but I still do it :laugh:
Put a hockey puck under the side stand and it sure does stand up a lot better. I think with the lowering of the forks in the triples, bigger tires, and longer rear shock, the stock side stand is not just a little bit too short, but way too short. So this weekend one plan will be to put a big washer to shim it so it doesn't flex and then fabricate a foot pad from a hockey puck to give me not only some more lift but a better ability to park it in grass or gravel.
Pumped up the tires to 41 R and 37 F. with these round profile tall tires and that high pressure it just feels light as a feather. Parking that bike is a joy. Will get to ride it a bit today before the cold front shows up for Weds/Thurs.
I think I know exactly what flex you're talking about when it comes to the side stand and increased bike height. It made me think there was something worn or bent at first!! I tried a few different size washers and even the thinnest one I could find barely fit. I hope you have better luck than I did.
I decided to buy a stock side stand off eBay ($10 free ship) and lengthen it. I hope to have it done and put on by this weekend and update my thread. The puck trick works well too, it's what I've been doing for a while now.
I can't see the pics either, they just show up as a gray circle with a while dash in the middle :icon_sad: Maybe when I get to work I'll be able to see them on those computers!
Alright.
So I made a side stand riser from a hockey puck, will install tomorrow.
And I have been using the GS since last weekend when I broke the rear brake line on the Triumph, which included my bi-weekly coffee run through some pretty fantastic roads today. I ran with the new tire pressure, 37F 41R, and it was fantastic. New tires, WIN! The bike is a delight!
Here we go.
Threading the holes in the bottom of the side stand foot to add the spacer, M6 tap:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_ZKLpGCfwmhEMiBOZiaCOLtnShoZ_1-9JzDpM3oYz0ad0j-sPG4wyqJUqT52rqgsIAmNykcZ4xchpO64C-j_VkRiHb-yThHnt4NLzORoaa7zNX6RaNh9VQrq73C2vpqL5aVNatctMT9vqajZBxTX8x2Jb2Eh61yXHdhw0CqJDIJKTIluFbQ60f4L1Cnp6J5rvxxCkfcsqmIwPcb1kEaihhEvuNPHcaag-pmsDJi0YJ2b7Tgnm0lD45i_1ya9IoTaxZJLDTTmoNPDu4ntBnmKQ9RPvLn6sOuRBc9S63qCCXf8rNJJ132El_zF_l6NXK27QaCVoAAvHpTKD-JHJ5dfE87u6sEa0ogwRqL-Z1rjRWx-4SOcCvCLlfl4ywOVIiIQ8w0_-CLk8HgNJt6U5kTiSAikrkvpp3pKSGaatCQQH5pyh8ULPVpGJgA-QFCHomanz_wHDmdZqhy8tlYJcqHLGws_w63aE4pp7xs9AHgGrKh5QMVOkIjCzO3OA2aStHmCxorDMHltlU_7YMupAocMhjK7ZRwibQXeUQEbnEcJ4pkkvUWE3mcLZ4rj0aP_loqkQLhH6gcrsbuHG0cHAOCclg6JmbYG-fqHbsbm-EmhMXWI0w0u8YoOM8TLmnerfM_kfKPb_36Jby2WDCPt4P_OySMlBkl5oO6WSSqsVEWJRvzANFsmHNBxfKjTmpLCCcEAujz-iWt0ieratfnIkXm0-wOhrhUtRNO2mOiIv9aPiAgdmjvZAw=w1366-h1820-no)
Formerly hockey puck rubber spacer installed:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NuV2MrZ_niBkrTLQJWgWoa9t1HMRgVkFI2XomokbclbwgL7zXAfMiBaW5n724Sx_9AYnNoxZj1-DCe5XFHzT6Ic1V3RdMckhP8ZJO5HT8xw8FaiFRGcUjSqjVeGOTGDgWhswfnFLn-zP78fWFaKYr0SZZFEMtDqdXnwvXU8s-J3mvLt29_yw5gb-i0CR7gtBekVZ80XtdNc9bSARVXMey3hIGnA8gA96BZlT_iZfa69nEi5wzWNYcS3yp6rV3loT3jmmq_xN3KQGbyzLDEQYsaWDN34DzozcYKWKA4T46SrzcuOstWV8h192pt8ABXTGbwDVHVsdrow5aQrfkRi1aDG0T2yPKhJcSm4jFnku2CcZJIHsZQEmU_OqXby1h76p_yNgES-5oK4UiSPxS550AGVIaDdx-iaQYyHGK9CW_jfFCeci42QCxF4xXwsJyrWH05mzDdgXOfElo8exLUoG-C88qaNQk99mqxVxNGsMqXq9XORyCNztJnE1pLJID3jFpu1DRk5Hn6Qxrj7nvykRDOKJy7SeNQlypis1RRKv3eeF43BpVp4M_OyGHD38KDaY70vm9PddgoT0DjPyQcmUdZyI5w9L-3K8fSddGOw6hUKSMp21K33-cagm_j1AqhXupfio5FSubiAIgCKCIXhmlaJlcwLK9kPA9e3Fc98Ldm6gvXB9Gm7qwR7V_iKtYOsv1Th_2ejn5Nj94NHlCrv-avkqkw8YkMbWu_MI5GnWt9aYEXbu5Q=w1366-h1820-no)
Bike parked with new side stand extension:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/P75Qff5Rl32Af_LowmfC7O-MVL-UX3k4uxlkO5hD34DGGuEzeVMrVnv9nxtqA3_pk3ZTZNDd3nY1jGTlV8xRL54BjFKRE7-NmxR8vHR9GiSjlfuQnD1oIG1e3WvxZHHWsuEKclVZJMxxEbXCdPDn3Eat2G1Bm2J-pKNYuJvigZ3Z3LrOp4WO37-vYBGrptOl-EXW9ofM4BvjGGIRGjqSkcExwCz9SS8EVdIAAVaDJ_XUVkYRlcsytqUjcH2dCOKCrDlMfsN4gzxLYe-W8QJqTFEa7bXMwXJ5a_P9XA6h61XIMN07si8Np_B6DFf6sZ4k0U1cfimNst0sX30VLAJF2Eu-5IPBdfIV_dsN0x6ZRG2t5kyROCQfQmXa4rFr5E405mEuP6zEijc-9Lyprd6UCtZ1IHcg0xYLW3ZyARpTWMuYtIUxr9C9NOL9SVRep2RPL2Jl0DQ8_TTGgmDaR7Fqbcn0biN3lxwli8MMHOacruddgPCt4ggbEIFchb5GkQQzeMXkbhzM-lUtlfSw7BHRRTBrWuEH3DU9uTsaB-brchTMrrWfexlR0TAk7DPJ5kEnwrqR7iUTSm2dzx2uOtLmz9PlunDLAXoVPjiV6_7R5rnLYCVQlCp3bsaSxN8Yad3WrB5JPLlCOlSEDp5du8NG5a0IbMrgiiMVSezWXOrdbbEWjng0nY9fAMLMuzgWakxA9DRFzQjCDG4pTGBghDTsthgX8irxz8xDvFahRzPOLzfiQP-k9w=w2428-h1820-no)
I endeavored to make a similar spacer for my Triumph, since it also has longer than stock shocks in the rear and winds up being too tall. But the problem there is a) I don't want to drill holes in the stand and b) due to the shape of the foot, there's no kind of clamp arrangement I could come up with. I may experiment with some adhesive. I have had a set of hockey pucks stuck to the bump stop perches on my Jeep axle with Gorilla Glue for a few years now, they are holding up fine, but I am not sure I can expect such duty on a side stand. Maybe Liquid Nails? I mean, if it falls off, then so what? I still have the stock length side stand then.
Speaking of the Bonneville, it is amazing how night and day it is vs. the GS now. And that was the plan all along.
Next up, I still need to do some paint and permanently mount the rear brake reservoir. I bought a bushing that might work on the rear brake, I'll try it while I have it apart to paint. And I bought a pair of plastic tool boxes with the intent of turning them into panniers on the GS but I am still working out how to mount them without going too crazy.
Really looking good mr!
thanks! I also found a giant oil leak in the GS. I actually think it's the cam cover gasket, and I have a new one here. Need to swap it. I just hate taking the tank off. Might do an oil change and also change the left engine case gasket while I'm at it. It's not a bad enough leak to cause the oil level to change much, but it does get oil on my boots and pant legs, and I don't like that at all.
Great looking bike. It's got that "utilitarian, all business" thing going on... love it! :thumb:
Thanks Bruce.
Trying to make this like the compact SUV of motorcycles. Goes on all roads, including the abundant Central TX gravel county roads and paved backroads that haven't had maintenance done in a half century. Should stay upright on extended road construction sites with graded road base. Something I can ride down to the river bank or lake shore if I want. Being simple to repair and lightweight is a bonus.
My parents have property out in Llano county that's part of a subdivided ranch. To get there from my house requires a long ride on a US highway with 70mph speed limit over probably 30 out of the 50 miles, then into 20+ miles of poorly maintained rough county roads with some serious low water crossings that often require 4wd to get through if it has been raining recently. Then 11-12 miles of actual gravel county road with ruts and washboard surface. The goal was to make the GS into a bike that would get there and back, plus be usable on the roads around their place. I think it is basically there now.
It's probably not as good as a more modern, purpose built adventure bike in this class like a CB500X, but I already owned the GS. The GS is a lot lighter than a CB500X with similar power, and even lighter than a Versys 300 with more power. The BMW G 310 GS and the new KTM 390 Adventure are both closer in weight to my GS with similar power, but I'm really not into a single, and of course I'd have to spend $5K+ on one. I imagine any of these "real" adv bikes will be better off road than my GS and with fuel injection they are more fuel efficient, but they are all water cooled which I frankly think is a liability on something you are taking down gravel roads at speed. With a little tinkering I got the GS500 close to where I want it and now if I want to spend $5K on another motorcycle, I can get something different, such as a VanVan AND a 150-180cc Vespa.
Quote from: mr72 on February 11, 2020, 06:57:19 AM
The BMW G 310 GS and the new KTM 390 Adventure are both closer in weight to my GS with similar power, but I'm really not into a single, and of course I'd have to spend $5K+ on one.
I had a 310 GS for about three months... couldn't hold a candle to the "real" GS 500. It was a nice bike but didn't have any personality... or enough "oomph" to get out of its own way...lol. Ended up trading it for my "82 GS 450.
Still grooving on your GS... that is just one good looking bike.
Got the brake-side fixes done. Painted the master-cylinder bracket (it was welded plain steel), added a shim in the brake lever pivot to remove some slack, and whipped up a bracket for the reservoir, attached with Gorilla Glue. Let's see how that holds up!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8la3UqnTnh0Ixj8JXLdXHxW5kiXHrkQTp_yqiVqiMmnXrg0LQu6gRfkKlaDZdApX9tfNnCRMjjg8XiAuzE9S8d_UD8TsWJSuwKlcgkBTe-O5nntDQTFVSTJh7JHV1ImPDKSJ9mp1r8fS6bfyIr0ukNUBxhV41dWsYFKQDxKyi7Y7BPbAPdOwo9qy3uNwi-SI0xtJ-5KD38cqq5-xNOKpZGfquhVsNibc6VlQp3t7_p8KKViRpKeViqeNCcgHRvvQKI5Dba6JtCgrq6C6YNM6nFFElE77KCA8z6Pvs_UUBuj5ujgpBTQRxhyRq7APD01pYWoZjWUnJW2PEMxNiRm37Vb4h30R0WOI_l5kVMQ8uxKETXAPHrFWfz_QKR5tTpy0p8cto9aLHDyqgJNlfooUJFC0r18r24oh5k4lb5oaUXsRwrrrVL0pvSqbg1Bpee6VEgdc3kXkLeixZXpRUa94jJGrMez9jYvFG3kgutVnBnmcmfHvJijGrAN665nHI0i55bRzMe49krU6ad4uiJAi6ZSTHGOXCcLCoyez_ddB0DrRvgwPWGkyYJ_j4nc7fnqMMuJOqmyeQBIul3zdFE11Qol5Htvp6kHRHu6dOME9ZR7tOHjB_mKp2J_5Esn_BuuOob3-AVrUW-EBhFYM3zA-fBOB5pFsaxqeVnAEW5goKGwft25FEdgTxRqv=w1366-h1820-no)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Bz4ONCcq2Bvgl_EKDe4T_M3hVAghqnQT3CE5TWGbk0jhPLVGKp30Q0ZfVEOMmP_DBfh86hBMyyNcy0tlK1EECSzTpiBU2jvIR78qCnkqAvlUCesW4ICmTtQ6ZK7rHKGaQMBGYC0yv-OWep2GfWnVZw1gnn1BnO-svrPX_3ouQvOy3O2EJydMx6LR2cQ5-HRzZrIyHWRatuVXVsEddjFCl5U-YAZA_BiDKvQJvISBG0FN2nHCr8_TaThPpNSrMMWquu3p8eXbs3hA3zDY7EbU3PSKBkscu8c5oBiU9iX_jUjmmvA0tDok7es6u4ErkX_fOpQ8dXIX3U4ureKd6V3b0MK_rry8VV1yudor0lJB5l56niAt9cM_xaJv60TaA0k3dDm350Sg22kiF7hkcGbFrL4IHvHimv6Axh4AmiRryW6eK8hCnTto3XZseUZs5VljvFMbVtsxpXNUfogqG254X6jouysY5TIbnoRk8u__-lgIDPSWqGO8jefYuMRD8A3SHhpMKfRDUNc8jLnrEKvvhQq91TnK_0DxZlyn0yixvitSnOpILqZ30TCkaDOSlXJLYs-_4N2UGd9uQ-VIeXu2TBdTx2Zvin74L4fCmKOPC9otLrp9gONfOCFtSYcJuzcXTuMo2VH_iYaRLrkryi16jyu8NqaT0XMCtD0h0QBqxAQoUf9QNHklUX4Y=w1366-h1820-no)
I'm still trying to figure out how to mount my bar end mirrors. I know, I know, you're not supposed to use bar end mirrors on a "dirt" bike. But these are ultra cheap and if one breaks due to a fall, so what? $16 to replace, and all the time the bike is not falling down, I can see 100% better.
And I need to fix that oil leak, but I have a good idea what it is.
Still considering beefing up the shifter mount. If this Gorilla-Glue bracket holds well enough on the rear brake reservoir, I might just use the same technique to add reinforcement to the shifter plate.
The truth is, this GS is ready to ride and I'm anxious to go out and get some gravel under the tires.
Not that I am not optimistic about the gorilla glue. But you could always run a metal bracket down from the air box mounting bolt which is what I did on one of my bikes. In my mind I am just picturing the "coming loose during a ride, flopping over and hitting the rear wheel and all hell breaking loose" kind of scenario...lol.
Yes that is precisely what I had intended to do, but I figured I'd give this a try. But I can easily make a bracket just like that. It would require a longer hose on my bike, due to the location of the master cylinder.
Rode around a lot on Saturday, and the bike crackles and kind of sputters when revving above about 8500 rpm. Also checking my fuel economy, with the 125 jets I was getting about 50-52 mpg and I only got about 42mpg on the last tank running the 127.5 jets. I'm beginning to think I went the wrong way on jets. I might go back to 122.5s and shim the needle to try to get rid of the off-idle hesitation. Bike is definitely not running right above 8K and even though my first impression after swapping the jets was that it was better, longer-term testing doesn't bear it out. Confirmation bias I guess.
So the carbs are coming back off. Might go ahead and swap the float bowl gaskets while I'm at it since at least one looks like it's leaking. And while the tank is off, I suppose I should put the new cam cover gasket on that's been in my garage for over a year waiting to go on.
Glad I have two bikes to ride.
Did some stuff.
First, the good. My math told me that I had raised the rear end about 7 mm higher than I raised the front with the tire change. The jittery handling confirmed this to me. So I went ahead and lowered the forks into the triples another 7mm or so, now the top of the fork legs are basically flush with the actual triple, not the clamp assy that's on top of the triple as before. They are probably 20mm lower than stock. Considering I have a longer rear shock as well as bigger rear tire I figure this was in order. The bike is a little less jittery but the handling still does catch me off guard when coming off the uber-stable Triumph. I'll still call this a win.
Speaking of shocks and suspension, I am also beginning to think the rear end is underdamped. Fortunately that's adjustable on the Katana shock. Have to fool with it.
And with nearly no preload on either end, the ride is very soft even with the 0.90kg/mm springs. Again, comparing to the Triumph, it's like floating on a cloud.
I also beefed up the mount that holds the left footpeg assembly and shifter. I went ahead and drilled a hole in the frame at the forward end of the bracket and tapped it with an M6 tap. I used an M8 jam nut as a spacer and put a bolt through to cinch it down, using the original hole that was there to mount the shifter. I put another hole closer to the rear and tapped it with M8 tap and used a shoulder bolt to re-mount the shifter. After making a new longer rod it now shifts like it should. It's basically like a factory shifter. Let's call this a 100% win.
Also mounted some teeny bar end mirrors. After failing to figure a way to do it in the alloy bars with any normal mounting hardware for bar ends, I finally just pounded an M8 nut into the end of the handlebar and screwed them right in. Really cleans up the look of the bike by taking off those awful old mirrors.
I was determined to find the real cause of the high rpm sputtering and did some testing. After numerous runs up in first and second gear it's clear that it basically sputters at almost exactly 9500 rpm but runs awesome up to there. I tested this with the petcock on PRI to rule it out, same exact result. Plugs were medium brown. I think it may be running just a touch on the rich side but it runs very well right until 9500 rpm. I think it's likely ignition misbehaving, so I'll look into that.
So next up I'm going to get new coils, new wires, and new plugs. Then when I pull it all apart to swap those, I'll probably do the valve cover gasket and get rid of the last of the oil leaks.
Let's see. First the good: I installed my brake light flasher and set that up, it's working great. And after lowering the fork legs in the triples it seems to have settled down the handling just enough that it doesn't freak me out every time I ride it. Actually it's quite natural and just feels light weight.
I also whipped up a setup of sort of side racks to mount some cheap plastic tool boxes as sort of cheap hard side cases. Wanted to ride without the top case. But even though this was most of a Saturday project, I'm not happy with it. They just stick out way too much. I think I might just pull everything off and get a set of Tusk soft side panniers to put on.
OK, now the whole purpose of the weekend project was to fix what I have now found to be a 9500 rpm sputter. I can really only ride it to 9500 rpms in first and second gear during this sort of lock down, since the roads between my house and grocery stores etc. are max about 50mph speed limits. The bike runs awesome up to 9500 rpm and then like a switch it sputters and doesn't want to rev higher. I started by looking at the plugs, figuring maybe it was mixture even though it makes no sense for it to be mixture, and the plugs are light brown, just on the rich side of normal. But I got new ones anyway. I got the hunch that the problem was ignition, and I still think it might be. But I was willing to consider a vacuum leak even though that makes no sense considering the behavior is basically the same as it was before I pulled the carbs to swap in 127.5 jets, and I thoroughly checked the carbs then and was absolutely sure they were put in and together right.
Actually, following the timeline, and reading my own posts here, I remember that with the 125 jets it had some off-idle hesitation and would begin to break up at 8500 rpm and now with 127.5s it has no hesitation and doesn't begin to break down until 9500 rpm. So I am guessing the jetting getting bigger improved some problems. However, with stock airbox and stock-ish exhaust (shorty Yoshimura muffler on stock headers), I can't imagine that it needs bigger than 127.5 jets.
Anyway, thinking maybe there were issues with an ignition coil, I pulled the tank and checked the coils thoroughly. I actually crimped new 1/4" spade connectors on both coil wires on each coil, since there was some corrosion on the old ones. I noticed that the high-voltage side wiring was corroded on both sides under the insulation, which is not a good sign. I also inspected the vacuum line and it was all good, tested running the bike before I took it apart on both PRI and RUN to rule out fuel starvation (same behavior both ways), etc. I didn't pull the carbs. I put it all back together, and tried running it on the side stand since it was raining. It ran fine, and in neutral with no load it will rev freely to 12K rpms or more.
So I was optimistic that I'd fixed it, but no dice. On the road test ride reveals it still sputters or misses at 9500 rpm in 1st and 2nd gear. Probably in every gear if I had enough roadway to get it going that fast.
This is a confusing issue. The fact that it behaves essentially the same after tearing the carbs all the way down, swapping jets, checking everything, and putting it all back together, seems to indicate that it's unlikely the cause. Also there was a time when the bike ran >9500 rpm ok, but I can't identify what might have changed because I rarely revved it this high and didn't really notice this until after I switched to the 14t front sprocket.
But the fact that the problem moved from 8500 rpm to 9500 rpm when going up a jet size makes me think maybe it's still lean at WOT/high-rpm. Scratching my head, but given that I have a nearly open type muffler (it's like a 14.5" long straight-thru Yoshimura) AND exhaust wrap all the way to the muffler makes me think maybe I am really under-jetted for this setup. It would be at high rpm where the exhaust effects would show up the most.
Theory of wrapped headers changing performance characteristics is that by increasing the temperature of the exhaust throughout its path through the pipes, it reduces so-called "back pressure" (man I hate that term) and increases (in theory) exhaust velocity. It also raises the resonant frequency causing the torque peak to occur at a higher rpm, which will result in more total hp, in theory. But of course, the real question is, does this cause the air to flow over the jets faster or slower? Well, probably both, I would guess, depending on rpm. In any case, there has to be higher vacuum at high revs due to lower back pressure so the slides will come up further and create a chance for air to flow more slowly over the jet in addition to opening the jet all the way sooner. So, bigger jets? Worth a try.
EDIT: I ordered 132.5 jets...
Also I think I am going to find a way, while the airbox is off, straighten out the front edge so the intake boots go on straight. Heat gun, the right combo of C clamps and 2x4s, should flatten her right out. For the life of me I can't figure out why the airbox outlets are shaped like / \ while the carb inlets are | | ... who designed this? Or did my airbox just get warped over time due to heat?
Thing is, if I can get rid of this miss and get it to run hard all the way to 11k rpm then this bike is going to be a beast.
I checked my parts box.
I have 122.5, 125, 127.5 and 142.5 jets in the box. The 142.5 have never been installed, was planned for pods which I never did.
After thinking about it a lot more yesterday and doing more research, I became convinced that I should jet up. Going from 125 to 127.5 moved the problem from 8500 rpm to 9500 rpm. So if this is true then going up to 130 jets should move the problem to 10,500 rpm? Maybe. Who knows. The world thinks we're not supposed to be riding anyway, and it rains all the time this month in Central TX, and this is not my primary bike, so I'm going to experiment.
I ordered 132.5 jets, to test my theory: the main jet affects mostly WOT and high-rpm running and has minimal effect on midrange/low-throttle cruise, and the combo of shorty/large-ID muffler and full exhaust wrap is having an exaggerated effect on exhaust flow rate compared with the normal "slip-on" expectation. I also ordered a UNI drop-in air filter which would also get along with the bigger jetting.
Also, I just today remembered that when the shop did the top-end rebuild, the mech said he was doing some "mild porting" and "cleanup" of the head, which I actually doubted was done but if so it would also affect jetting.
So in about a week these parts will arrive and I'll dig back in. Stay tuned! Meantime, maybe today I'll take the bikes down and clean them up, get some more pictures.
Quote from: mr72 on April 07, 2020, 06:08:16 AM
I checked my parts box.
I have 122.5, 125, 127.5 and 142.5 jets in the box. The 142.5 have never been installed, was planned for pods which I never did.
After thinking about it a lot more yesterday and doing more research, I became convinced that I should jet up. Going from 125 to 127.5 moved the problem from 8500 rpm to 9500 rpm. So if this is true then going up to 130 jets should move the problem to 10,500 rpm? Maybe. Who knows. The world thinks we're not supposed to be riding anyway, and it rains all the time this month in Central TX, and this is not my primary bike, so I'm going to experiment.
I ordered 132.5 jets, to test my theory: the main jet affects mostly WOT and high-rpm running and has minimal effect on midrange/low-throttle cruise, and the combo of shorty/large-ID muffler and full exhaust wrap is having an exaggerated effect on exhaust flow rate compared with the normal "slip-on" expectation. I also ordered a UNI drop-in air filter which would also get along with the bigger jetting.
Also, I just today remembered that when the shop did the top-end rebuild, the mech said he was doing some "mild porting" and "cleanup" of the head, which I actually doubted was done but if so it would also affect jetting.
So in about a week these parts will arrive and I'll dig back in. Stay tuned! Meantime, maybe today I'll take the bikes down and clean them up, get some more pictures.
Yea opening the ports will get a lower velocity at the same rpm. That would need larger jets. So a polish job on the head/ports will mean you can toss out the old jetting numbers. 132.5 is a good jump up - I'd jet it till you start losing power up top, then back down 1 step.
You may also need pilots and needles etc looked at, but get the mains right before jetting it lower down. Jetting needs to be done top down.
Jetting is dependent on throttle position - mark your grip and switch so you can tell 1/2 vs 3/4 vs 1/4 etc etc.
PS: Sorry, opening the ports will result in not much change in the velocity in the venturi of the carb. Increase in CC will result in an increase in the velocity, and the carb can flow a lot more than the head can. So smaller jets in that case over a stock bike. You sure it was worse with 125's ?
Cool.
Srinath.
Yes it was definitely worse with 125s. It had a hiccup at throttle opening from cruise and it sputtered at 8500 rpm. 127.5s and the hiccup is gone, it pulls hard and strong all the way up to 9500 and abruptly sputters [which is why I initially thought it felt like an ignition issue].
I just didn't consider the exhaust wrap might affect jetting but it was an oversight. Whatever porting may have been done also has to have some impact but likely mostly at only very high revs and full throttle. The reality is that with the original 16t sprocket and before I got my Triumph, my riding style almost never took me above 7k rpm and I wouldn't have noticed if it kicked over at high revs. It's only lately that I've paid attention to how it runs at high revs.
Yea jet upwards till you peak and start to decline on the richer side. Then back up to the peak. You cant tell the peak till you have passed it, then you'd definitely know. Post your setup.
Sputter at opening throttle is likely pilot jet - but get the mains sorted first, like you noticed going up to 127.5 did affect that lower throttle opening as well.
Likely you end up with a much bigger main and hence have to drop down to a smaller pilot.
Set floats right - that is the first thing you need to do - then mains, then needle, then pilot then air screw.
Cool.
Buddha.
Took everything apart and put it back together again today.
First I found the vacuum hose on the carbs that goes to the left carb was leaking at the carb end.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3wDM1WdQLm_jLM7m5Y5WFQvqLu8GOdOdfnOSYnY5wlZAC1Z55tF8ScVLfhYWChibe3DBDawDP26puhxSQxbDDmF6qa9OM5j4F6cm9qh9HDImHSBz5DcFlFbT4_lQZC9VotUp1AY8pTWP0QRNK6x5rjh0XNa6aoPoi--73OF7lo4VIcTVQ65hwP6DBd2lt4krVP3WkYbI4-fCpepcsMs37kJFj3YULM0At6QdKdgCJM65LMZKbi9rcVdNVaIndADiHRFVu-jJBgoyxAKSm8cu3lkMknhy839O9dvwtgTFYNwi33u9Kzb-k_6on9gQpd51XcSLq-EX1Rk9Kdfka1Nsk6BhcfKv9Cvt7ZshnEDuPOg07AggFttDbNAO2GQATB9_IVHntveTLxDt0Nr3b2DJY1Sa9fBZLTDyHRgTh5q40Qg1J0ehmoONpa4BBsKLB9gjAbE2hg4gH5c1LXbOKkQ22PIZBDqKaxHWCYF3xRxs3RVyFi9x9gL1hIo3qB8dri5g9lIhPOwcUZzet40bXtFbGXfU6pAhkUBHl9cVtp-9DcWuBXh0FdIvmCGGJcnDxXzWATvOjfg7cewJMQmEEZyAfB95gDU8xNmHjpIuY24_Jwe8812qwjxyPs8D5jr-BqxdOnNW9iJ0cC_U7mq_YnAW6q1lojDPVbCTFrrqPYmbuRI5zeKOImw34KVVOkwFBDrCaKw72RZqQdmC9nwmxjWhf7tUIlMh5Np-jHso-SHV8-Y4eT4K1yk4wvFf=w2236-h1896-no)
Then I pulled the carbs and swapped the jets, now 132.5. Checked and the floats were on the low side so I adjusted them to be on the high side I also fixed the airbox so it seals correctly, which in this case involved a combination of efforts. I heated it with a heat gun and wedged a block of wood inside to get the front face more flat/straight. Then I really worked the little rubber bell-mouth/boots so they fit right straight on the carbs with no gaps or misalignment at all, and cinched the hose clamps, THEN I worked the boots into the airbox from the inside of the airbox until they were sealed all around just right without disrupting the fit on the carbs. And THEN I put the airbox bolts in.
New air filter went in, a really slick UNI foam filter. Has a cool little rubber bell mouth inlet. I like this a lot. I now have UNI filters in both bikes! Plus foam & oil filters are supposed to be better for dust. I know a UNI flows better than a k&n and filters like a paper filter.
Put it all back with a new vacuum hose.
Speaking of both bikes, here's a pic...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ccUptxjtJjZanUt90itpAk6LMHTMWuNdJSbAZepfYiFjRdyUyAmbz27NEmxL8e5zggxyNDYMTYSY0BUSigaZHkFte5cGQo2rDLE6a8f5GDpBSFMwXnUIhXI89s7z8TzYR_vzau2N8FiIo0PDQ_nCJR9FxIvST7lRTZYId4IYufs0fdW7RbDi_siGLNbyR0O4yRapBROYcP-fQhvmrnllowG4-iLpaveXddJoDge-14JYRaXbifkX3QZKi9taiUHun4B8ZtYYIv15AgQUJ-SvbyBSqiBdAaQ_i5c4nbPQWudufikxHtvDaEK80fCzLEvG1nKSwUu-XIchRaHwXaUgK3WiGnCG6WfqsSam7oyPZ4nmL4s1cytyNrHx-mh0El0cbbmiOrOtpLJXpr6TtndL9ccz9UNAAgtaleUXXisIXUi9OD88YSfXNOeZgil8QFEw_gNX07_ficJ5bl2-LcyUgn8BOCEWeSuFvuWQvMg_RCwZmt3OKjm95icQAJtX_nfNNWEBzMk7pUpU4gLBObfNG1TQKf4GkPNq14Ghgt-ONLIhGPugYNeQb28FGNjhmM9nB84pWQf0KlRgZLjLRXyLK1Nroks3U5GqRxLu2pNKb-Ivza9aiRR8A7xo-ELUeMDK1Zkb3yLw0_Uwhrrk1CnBz3urgc2EJ_o0x9holY5TRxbZnUDSzz93BmuhPezDltJja6h3KwCmVHlvekwMglUnr4MiX-XeFAeEK9Q0sB9TXQk9UJt9y1x5qEbP=w2414-h1896-no)
Annnnnndddd. Test ride, FIXED! Screams to 11.5k no sweat. It's a treat to ride! I don't know if it's my imagination or just the difference in better high rpm running making me more sensitive to it but I do sort of detect a touch of hesitation going from high rpm cruise (7+k) or decel to opening the throttle, but I haven't completely reset the pilot mixture so that might improve this. Just can't ride long enough to get it fully warmed up until either the govt gets off of this police state kick or I wind up having to take a "necessary" trip that's more than 20 minutes away.
My recent mods to the shifter mount and fork position are terrific. The bike is pretty much dialed now, at least as far as rideability. I need to hunt down some gravel to try out the new tires on non-pavement. I'm really itching to take it to my parents place in Castell with 10+ miles of gravel county roads behind 1.5 hours of country highways.
:woohoo:
What tires are those ? Trailwings ? Those things are on my SCR, and 9K miles in they looks like new. Them tars wear forever.
Seriously I have 1/2 a mind to take the rear 17 off the bolt and put it on the GS and swap to the bolt mag's which are 15/19.
Try 135 just in case, But make good observations with 132.5. You really want to go richer than ideal and back up 1 step.
And looks like if they improve the flow in the head you need to get it richer.
Cool.
Buddha.
Shinko e705 150/70 rear and 120/70 front.
FYI, some more pictures. Here's the detail of the left side foot peg and shifter mount:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YGfedn2mVQGN-TQZwoXSbkEKmcnRMEzCU74rQqyKgVOxvFsRS9Pz-fhY_9jhbp_CDAeOmeh2g_FfZF3JZ6rnlknPgHIGu1Q6SCaD7pQ_yFaLmuZptKGo0qSiMWV0sWAYv7e75dmeSM6_JT6gYscse3d4FO4Y4G70ePfB7Xff3Jj1G--xL2UpnPD5ktznkGg8Nw07zoeSFq7xgaNG3VapeuTNyGSiaULa8W9HBVs0FaumIEXMyEvbvF-FZT4Cm9OVjOrzkzA4Rni67oC1iPXXfZZee0-7iKkUl3Quf_IHxiLKZ8cp1LJagJfo2_fvoOzQW5XY7Rl8FyDdeJuZdpyYXmeYWy21H63uSdS-LM84R-s81ekIOqUjGgJaIjitA61fbuhcSKSjF1JZO1S5GseLcMVLaZcgMuu2mx7rRV4_8pJDdrlpha6edOSQCtrMvTS1SAp2BoUSpFkomDVWX4mrL6SEdNGVJfvvG2f5Wlu4Dnp-B1WanIYn-IWQXhT7QAE4wOrAEuBXZ58QoxHyWPJ7-An6GHzQxh0FyKVZsg-xzSE3D_6M2-UuLuxNpfqGbkc1kddY1h4EQMY5CcRZIXbz-PtL4syzhOZHrk5Xp22a91Xx_xW2gdrbd-AI_oEIGjr9u9yYlN3ZbVJRZYVhHORl3llMsTx2QNc5ROaLw0vmcw-ch89SG_hYnPrAS8LMsNM=w2080-h1896-no)
You can see the shoulder bolt that is holding the shift lever. That bolt happens to be an exhaust hanger bolt from my Triumph. If anyone is interested in building up these foot peg mounts like I did, I can look up the part number for the bolt and the shift lever I used.
Here's a view where you can see how I reinforced the shift mount.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xX3JrZN3og0DAimiNrgtlbMFGmZuroUdbF9JSiKfXwH0kh7_fBjJsH5aV1Y3Zt-f2_AV7vIHDAa74hl1yTzQDoomUoIMAQxMFccp5H_lpGHXBX_R5CEc1GwEzYMqV0-erinCutfkeqiSa0UqoMNPC5kg8n6HCzus0YD4bU83XAqcyC-kWeJOjA5L9rcRty5zgOn38lPMdPQhO-vfbwGbAiYbhKIOvc4Ez9-ukQGZ1rP_Ghvb9wXYSKFFVO7pk9rXOr7YgXymmCTZAdURlgTmIUaa6a6tW1eYpErORsbQIwQ6GZz8XULOoLAHJQKrnDJ_cGuL9lcD0JsYqDF71s0Alspv6gWMOz0OumpS9azv-VbPkLv3y5EcR9fCb4GotKzi3t2MMwai-8J6k-n9oaBiv2DmZvuw0YudwzFXBnRCaZ6w0vEDRD0uVXywbQPZbdNQ9jIZu61-vuxRZ744DqqKD8agcscukbTSKG-6hebS5IPG7bi-0rTdMxBnd8OSeHeBl_SQXL4szEGjgQa5tAdknnt-HvIbCt4D2nkW58Sc0QX7vnlfSwEsMz5TuddUKSoD2hsN8iwj8aW3wy45ADnuWme5DLKHP2J2OtjZ93MCJOp_bViYcnW5yT4YgBbgKzrBkONpXNB2WAUGm11Zs6T91mi_Np2Wzh1UnAnStS_Faw-YIu9HW5oxwPGi8TPhjTQ=w2528-h1896-no)
I drilled and tapped an M6 hole in the frame and put an M6 bolt through the bracket to stiffen the mount. I used an M8 jam nut as a spacer, it was just more convenient than making one out of alu. The shifter is just about as solid as the stock shifter was, maybe a little more flexible, I can't remember. It is solid enough that you just ride without noticing any flex.
Here's the right side as it sits now:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/r1ncuIh0sXFyIrWiWqOjbG6UIAdMjP1fRqS3yIdJ-ei1fUsSQ-yZyu7-3TFFQguGjC9GK-W1go72cSVQBeiULmjkZgFzfZbpjzLB9vH7Mn2qo9m2605n9RzChdNc7eIfu4jCni0hhzAAVctuMmYtp28he07wCw76MwkfCF_M6KvT-q-HQv3_MJ6dtj5os2Eowo9QURIlr-oz9eRz-zbI5t5Kt4AGB486lLHvnMDXbnn_Zg2LpUrIZoCILzZY24o1YHrPEoje-Yg-r7Q7IL9_hIlALRfwn8oPw-5mL8Ebea0bn6DT8q5QjdoM6YZSSjRay0133RwZhyzyjELtTb4EKrZvX4AzJ3v--NX-6jlapwMtm8kCb4TME5NLVxPhcWChE2husmHWTn818jwtpzQJgnUMqfBit1ryATyM9BXRiRCs6J7ycMQOFZsbdIjdNbEgLjMwm62HN7P6J6YWdWcJKppQfpJSFSv-xe9pU8tHKMv5CWR-GRHLcdaUGZhAKz_moAfoVfLWw1rN3XLSmONhf1WJ99UHR1Llv5dXRMXMB9Iz3TFe5qT__FrL-I1nEvxNYNufDYoRiRCfj93p9_buXpDKP0tQaI5EvBe-kmJlMPN3d8HGBD2SrrQyD6i3hlm4SEIFWH775h1x45aeSOWdSAMhup3RlTAIfCqIypoTS8TbQIFJPJ36DNpHBpQaICcVIr3os788OH_aHEeExm69jcvfjgDnNnxvUwcphhx7EMXfFDa4M1x_YHqS=w1422-h1896-no)
I am going to be swapping the brake light switch for a banjo bolt ring sensor, part's on order. The brake light switch mount there is kind of temporary but it's really just not very reliable like this. It'll clean it up a lot, and remove that extension wire, to swap for the banjo bolt type. Incidentally, there's only about 5mm or so clearance between the banjo bolt and the swingarm so I can't use a whole banjo bolt replacement sensor like many other bikes have. That would require a different master cylinder with the banjo bolt axially oriented. With the stock MC I will have to see if the ring-type will work... this is one where the sensor looks like a ring terminal that fits under the existing banjo bolt head in place of a crush washer.
Here's my fork before I cleaned it, gives you an idea how much I lowered the legs in the triples:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zjcBRHdzqDvXPRGfS_74TcuHcP3jY_Y_tklQB7NFo2gAMLjYbGXjzT_c7cplXVd06eKS6os_NtIeHRZE70aYwtcjV9KilDMiIzY69pT-LuHTXyHkYFL0LQ7apJBPV5IzHve9CGMREngjIBgRGX_xgNlYUEaTJh4_XfHI7SeduflsK14fumRWZQL2Yz6Z6tqChh9oysUSLHX04c2R9hL5AZNaAAwn0uHD3kwlWTIXdZSY4Mh5hZUuznlc4xxVJmGiCsC5pZDAxJQdhYmDa2RKTBmMw_jKJbmwWfOK_UJpnSfDJG6XknxCgCHZuPYey1foOPysaZvo1qo6LSchWyidhZE__fGkEebjKDtYMNa2dti82FThdPZlMjn44QzGYg6ZhXz6EpM8x6Lhb7w5kFH3n0ZObgt0KJEjB-NcszAeQDznFtFdKDSOs2Y9xL4ZHdkNT2cVe7TJXFiLzb1LLfFDNM04bzP-X3qqTL79yy6xLSIr4q9UCDosi6ppL1IOkYAuXSscpheI5UjMdTMoT_n8WKwko4KwF9ngFNV3_hFr9IdDhNp6yqIt3vn3VrlO1GC_hAl5GSQ2b6DE2zyMwqwBNcx69az8kWhAqPOd3LlQOt2kknoySLcuf5TqIgRcnUx8W8_eoxfusL7egSduK-hfz9hlKhnuEs8uG8qDsz2re3CPA3fQBDTt5vWILro8o-o=w1422-h1896-no)
After I swapped the tires and started riding the GS a lot more, I really noticed that it was pretty skittish handling-wise, but raising the front like this (about an extra 10mm more than before) basically cured it. I do think the weird handling was a combination of the tires rounder profile plus having the rear raised higher than the front steepening the head angle.
Just a full side shot showing a bunch of mods:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/111vPocbs5G5IV87POZz-VQcm_tNGP_oO53lP7xIIGG_Lzxx-gvdrFd9bk_VKapsLDhB9NzvO3CxGjphQe98sZqwESA7vCzq30H6AZ971cROgF3wFP9jtbzj39EP9jRnhBLDPGoU1o2Y9Z1i87_VGOfG2JHaUXIp-khGrPmQK1Yt_O-cF51ItZBvpAKtOJDnMlAaREU8p5Q2UBLqzq420qt0zqByhqpyFgKmTyl7DiSvZqoL1-wq-Z8qb7tex4lIYWA5eheOPZnevD4YwDoqz_mNRUIe2y8QaRVNmRTM-b4RcMG3lyK_ptzLjerWHtxJJ0thRFBePfZ9JjjIGW4CALI3x20iD5G-d00aj2IaZjSdFNQ9MSB7LwmvJQdvmCCJrAieUlzPFBpMBNZrJGTG890R-mHsBtwfdRs0KfxGCSd_IAXCk4slDE52_X9F1VvJAKnyP0DU6NIFEkIETo_ll37HjvylwnNSB9rAeOjrzmn42ByEr5DjrZzvPOu7WfOeqY-dZOKDBH2H4ehajSbf5CVZkw4aMWgTpmx-0q37eW0KsggPjUF0QrNAVXluQQQiUrrgf7l1iK8fYa0aH57b_iX1j_Ql6nyIvsBU1Akh1RABPi3uZ6wSfI1UvbLkMfx_11cUgZqbvG9G6CdoTRC-kVQiExQNw0Z2Dl-XOLqqiXhh9dJgTQAzHXS2tDL2aSRCnHCD0JidO3_BxMP58AZBheR0KcirACHGGeX0M833zRo5Kr4QPOvRbBZJ=w2336-h1896-no)
Here you can see my Rox-style risers which allow the bars to come back a couple of inches, which kind of makes up for the lack of pull back on these MX-style bars (KX-hi bend). The riding position is about halfway between standard dirt-bike and a "standard" like my Bonneville. Compared with my Bonneville, the pegs are about an inch lower and about 2 inches more forward, the grip-to-saddle distance is the same. The more forward pegs puts them right where they need to be to stand on them. With the bars and pegs like this it's easy to stand straight up on the pegs and ride around like a trials rider.
And BTW what I meant by "big" muffler is that it's like 2-1/4" inside diameter. It's probably 8" shorter than the stock muffler and being a perforated straight through large diameter, I think it's essentially nearly zero restriction. This muffler was made for a GSXR1000 and then after my bike was knocked over and it bent the can I chopped about 6" or more off of it. Yes, it's kind of loud, but not as loud as my Triumph with the 2-1 TEC exhaust with a full length cone silencer.
Managed to sneak out on a ride today to deliver some DVDs to my parents who don't have internet access at their place in the country, where they are heading to wait out the outbreak... anyway, it's a 9ish mile ride with suburban highway and neighborhood streets. Got to get a better feel for this jetting.
WOT once it's on it, it's great. But there definitely is a hesitation when coming from cruise at like 6-7k rpm and moving to accelerating. It's just a momentary sort of bogging and then it does its thing just like it should.
I'm thinking maybe it's time for me to shim the needles with one or two washers.
At least that'll give me something to do this weekend. Man I wish there was a way to do that without having to disconnect those fuel lines again.
Just caught up on your saga,.... screams to 11.5 was my favorite part :icon_razz: Good luck this weekend sir
Lean problems happen at steady state where it would try to lean surge. If it is lean, yea 1-2 washers is the answer. But keep an eye on WOT. It will get a shade richer - may not be enough to matter. You may still be on the leaner side of stoich. If it helps, it may be a thought to try 135.
Rich problems are soft response upon acceleration. I'm thinking you're rich a smidge there. If you're rich here assuming its 1/2 throttle - you may want to try 1-2 washers but dropping to 130. That would get you the same jetting at WOT as now but leaner at 1/2.
You also could have the slides rise too fast - which would be best served by training your wrist to open slower.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on April 14, 2020, 08:02:14 AM
Lean problems happen at steady state where it would try to lean surge. If it is lean, yea 1-2 washers is the answer. But keep an eye on WOT. It will get a shade richer - may not be enough to matter. You may still be on the leaner side of stoich. If it helps, it may be a thought to try 135.
In theory it should not change mixture at WOT .. needle is all the way out of the jet.
This issue is, like if I'm riding at 5K rpm cruising at like 50mph in 5th gear, then I crack the throttle say from 1/8 (cruise) to 1/2, then it hesitates for about half a second before running just right to accelerate. However, if I ride straight through the gears at 1/2 throttle passing by 5-6k rpm on the way, there's no hesitation. So this is really a transitional thing. Also if I roll on the throttle slowly, no problem. I was thinking it also could be lean on pilot, maybe when I move the throttle it just takes a moment for the slide to come up and fuel to begin to flow through the main jet sufficient to accelerate. I haven't been able to reset the pilot mixture since the last round of mods.
Anyway, I'll fiddle with it. Totally rideable and usable now. Maybe I'll try it with the choke on and see if it improves or gets worse.
Incidentally, I did the throttle tube mod where you super glue in a piece of zip tie under the throttle cable to increase the diameter a bit and quicken the throttle opening. In all this just makes it easier to notice this problem.
The needle is still a tapered obstruction in the emulsion tube. The only way the lifting of the needle will not matter is if the needle like some DJ needles has no taper in that section. I've seen those guys cut needles that even have a step in them. So I have no idea WTH those would do. But a GS stock needle will always richen - in fact it will even richen idle, its tapered all the way across.
That's why they say get the mains right, then the needle then the pilot etc etc.
Cool.
Srinath.
well then it's entirely possible it's rich on pilot. I'll have to dial it in once I can ride long enough to get it well and warmed up.
Rich on pilot is going to want to stall as you try to take off, you really need to rev to 3-5k and never letting it drop below that.
Air screw only work at idle and to maybe 2K - at no load.
0-1/8th throttle is pilot. AKA - Take off.
How do Plugs look at idle.
Cool.
Srinath.
Added the pressure-sensor rear brake light switch. Wow!!! What an improvement over the stock piece of junk!
looks like this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KFmomN9EMn7A-_PDoS4wE1oECa38rEJG3Ye56YAa50Ieo1MSTBvxvdlvstlpgRXVL5QQtCho4zLJJxmxUV6jD9x75AD9MXibRpaVnulhcRDRz8govGS_Igps-GKnAnwbvStgENL80v2iPsF75oWk34D47SqzescA6XEv0FVHLpBneM_nutxT8Ygd7b0a65HphVz_WPFZ9CggvnXTQUf0PaxNVXP6ayHNgeTViHWngqatk-SKORCKfNP5FrGWpFYAV1cmaVeSCmAC1Ncq_YJgj-b10zl7gY-PLz70hy-kRIw47wUp6T4p9ld7tf-V5-xf2RoP9FwYsNFUU5v0nvlHCA_svNrvA-DK1oQo0ltsJoeINSFzC4iwoHOj0XEqneh3zax8FJmgdejEc_7IVJws1-kAz-OXJdvWB4xs4KYaEI5x7f0jgFhEAeKsCVFfWOotARBVZZqstWgi0yrjwgg-7-uQNfiWrmPuvO9m_UCj6J9LHC5yyZeNvVfSPI28C_ZInhNYYXSJlLUM869uNyyCf6LBEVaNEayXiNcnhkUNWBBoEK2ucVjHhiqqZFTU0Tk751yLAcaIdvC3YAVRQE0In1i3hGyDVf9dv7dAq8JMrxtYKpStHoH1CNvgjjjXbUPYzRH75A4YeVhkYLA2WnbEsEP4LNijCQqhB0ahM-MvLdlKJhjh1ul6eZx2ttknMqN7UD122f0DL4Y3wD-LUw7B7IHWDsRK-vYMNxZjJYYYEdaybguNQUdlDQC0=w1422-h1896-no)
Here's the one I ordered:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PMCDD69/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Talk about worth $9.
I did have to make little jumper wires with male & female spade connectors to it to make it work.
Quote from: mr72 on April 16, 2020, 07:53:55 AM
Added the pressure-sensor rear brake light switch. Wow!!! What an improvement over the stock piece of junk!
looks like this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KFmomN9EMn7A-_PDoS4wE1oECa38rEJG3Ye56YAa50Ieo1MSTBvxvdlvstlpgRXVL5QQtCho4zLJJxmxUV6jD9x75AD9MXibRpaVnulhcRDRz8govGS_Igps-GKnAnwbvStgENL80v2iPsF75oWk34D47SqzescA6XEv0FVHLpBneM_nutxT8Ygd7b0a65HphVz_WPFZ9CggvnXTQUf0PaxNVXP6ayHNgeTViHWngqatk-SKORCKfNP5FrGWpFYAV1cmaVeSCmAC1Ncq_YJgj-b10zl7gY-PLz70hy-kRIw47wUp6T4p9ld7tf-V5-xf2RoP9FwYsNFUU5v0nvlHCA_svNrvA-DK1oQo0ltsJoeINSFzC4iwoHOj0XEqneh3zax8FJmgdejEc_7IVJws1-kAz-OXJdvWB4xs4KYaEI5x7f0jgFhEAeKsCVFfWOotARBVZZqstWgi0yrjwgg-7-uQNfiWrmPuvO9m_UCj6J9LHC5yyZeNvVfSPI28C_ZInhNYYXSJlLUM869uNyyCf6LBEVaNEayXiNcnhkUNWBBoEK2ucVjHhiqqZFTU0Tk751yLAcaIdvC3YAVRQE0In1i3hGyDVf9dv7dAq8JMrxtYKpStHoH1CNvgjjjXbUPYzRH75A4YeVhkYLA2WnbEsEP4LNijCQqhB0ahM-MvLdlKJhjh1ul6eZx2ttknMqN7UD122f0DL4Y3wD-LUw7B7IHWDsRK-vYMNxZjJYYYEdaybguNQUdlDQC0=w1422-h1896-no)
Here's the one I ordered:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PMCDD69/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Talk about worth $9.
I did have to make little jumper wires with male & female spade connectors to it to make it work.
what does it improve?
Quote from: Meukowi on April 16, 2020, 08:40:45 AM
]what does it improve?
It switches on the brake light the moment you touch the pedal no matter how the brake is adjusted.
Dunno if you've tried adjusting that janky stock switch and spring bit if you have then you will appreciate the brilliant simplicity of this switch.
Additionally, for my bike, not having that spring and switch mechanism hanging in the breeze ready to snag on something if I'm riding through some brush is also a benefit.
Its bolted into the banjo bolt onto the pressure side ?
If that Chinese switch lasts as long as the corona virus in 3-4 months you might have brake failure - when you're hitting the brakes.
BTW there are some scooters that have this little metal can/bottle - about the side of a $2-3 worth of quarters that are supposedly ABS. I liberated a few out of some I found at the junkyard - have been just too terrified to slap it onto any of my bikes.
Cool.
Buddha.
Can't wait for the images to be reposted. :cheers:
The missing pictures are gone forever. Dunno where.
Quote from: adoptme on April 19, 2020, 11:20:49 AM
Can't wait for the images to be reposted. :cheers:
Those pictures are gone for good, but you can see everything you need to see in the picture in this post:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=71055.msg880846#msg880846
and also in pictures following if you want to see from the side.
Basically I cut the "nose" of the seat off so that it mates correctly with the '04 tank that's on mine. I reupholstered the entire seat. FWIW I also beefed up the foam with some closed-cell foam on the nose of the seat mostly because I was sliding forward too much and just needed to reshape it a bit. But it's very doable.
The '01+ seats will "wrap" around the little edges of the '01+ tank correctly but they are wider than the earlier seats. Also not 100% sure the seat will snap right in to the latch or mate correctly with the so-called "helmet lock" (the hidden hook for helmet D-ring). In all cases the '89-00 parts are much harder to find so that original '92 seat you have is probably worth a lot more than a '01+. I found that '01+ tanks were a dime a dozen, and I sold my dented/bent '92 tank for more than I paid for a mint '04 tank. Anyway, something to consider if only for a moment before you cut up the '92 seat pan. That's an irreversible mod. But I cut mine and have no regrets.
Here's a related anecdote. My Triumph's stock seat was horrid. Couldn't do more than about 45 minutes before I couldn't stand it anymore. I bought a Burton gel seat for it, a $400 custom job that took a couple of months to have made. It looks great and is way, way more comfortable than the stock seat, but still the GS is 2x as comfortable with my modified stock seat. I think it's not just the seat but also the more supple suspension even with my stiff springs. Point is, there's something halfway decent about those old GS500 seats. If I have to do a >3 hr ride I absolutely with ride the GS even with the 7k rpm on the highway and slightly squirelly tires just because the seat is that much more comfortable.
I'll second this ^^^ A lot of people like to winge and complain about the stock GS seat but its really not that bad. I wouldn't mind modifying mine a bit so it is a little more raised in the front to help me from sliding up on the gas tank haha, but overall the seat is great. I just went on a 3 hour ride last Saturday with a group of guys from school and there was a CBR600 F4i, an older Sportster 883, an Indian Scout, a Ninja 300, a z1000, and a really old VMax. The only ones not complaining were the guy on the Ninja and me haha everyone else was sore, had wrist pain or lower back pain and numb butts :D. Incidentally, I was also one of the only ones who didn't need gas halfway through the trip. There are a lot of redeeming qualities to the GS and I think the seat is actually one of them.
Quote from: mr72 on April 20, 2020, 02:03:21 PM
Quote from: adoptme on April 19, 2020, 11:20:49 AM
Can't wait for the images to be reposted. :cheers:
Those pictures are gone for good, but you can see everything you need to see in the picture in this post:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=71055.msg880846#msg880846
and also in pictures following if you want to see from the side.
Basically I cut the "nose" of the seat off so that it mates correctly with the '04 tank that's on mine. I reupholstered the entire seat. FWIW I also beefed up the foam with some closed-cell foam on the nose of the seat mostly because I was sliding forward too much and just needed to reshape it a bit. But it's very doable.
The '01+ seats will "wrap" around the little edges of the '01+ tank correctly but they are wider than the earlier seats. Also not 100% sure the seat will snap right in to the latch or mate correctly with the so-called "helmet lock" (the hidden hook for helmet D-ring). In all cases the '89-00 parts are much harder to find so that original '92 seat you have is probably worth a lot more than a '01+. I found that '01+ tanks were a dime a dozen, and I sold my dented/bent '92 tank for more than I paid for a mint '04 tank. Anyway, something to consider if only for a moment before you cut up the '92 seat pan. That's an irreversible mod. But I cut mine and have no regrets.
Here's a related anecdote. My Triumph's stock seat was horrid. Couldn't do more than about 45 minutes before I couldn't stand it anymore. I bought a Burton gel seat for it, a $400 custom job that took a couple of months to have made. It looks great and is way, way more comfortable than the stock seat, but still the GS is 2x as comfortable with my modified stock seat. I think it's not just the seat but also the more supple suspension even with my stiff springs. Point is, there's something halfway decent about those old GS500 seats. If I have to do a >3 hr ride I absolutely with ride the GS even with the 7k rpm on the highway and slightly squirelly tires just because the seat is that much more comfortable.
Thank you for this tip. I'm trying to consider whether to go even more extreme and get a 1980's GS125E seat, and place it onto the GS500E 1992 Frame. I like the look of the older seats. Nonetheless, I'm wondering how you were able to fit the OEM breaklight into the mod seat. I saw that you also removed the back/rear cowls. Did you 3D print a part, or just wrangle it onto the frame? Thank you in advance.
Here's detail of how I used off the shelf corner braces to relocate the tail light:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=71055.msg871957#msg871957
Also, I flipped the rear fender around and cut off the squarish part (which is now under the seat). I trimmed it to make it symmetric in the rear and mounted the turn signals to it. It's more low-profile than before and still functional.
This is great, would it be possible to get multiple angles of the foot peg lowering brackets and mods done? Very valuable info here, gets confusing because of the two iterations but has the potential to be it's own instructional.
Quote from: mr72 on November 05, 2019, 06:42:51 AM
Right side, test-fit. Still to mount the brake light switch, reroute the brake hoses and find a spot for the brake fluid reservoir.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xGYANquMD1GO4OJXqYU9WkSB-dQdAZMQyelbdbrRbAwBby3Rb6HZgmPNdCZCNezSrMqBt5MmI4xHbnrP6biRVFoIho4MgjPq3aBMXAArWbmvj42ffe-NQwFtOWCWaDd_e6HnlqqT8y8Yx9pWIfDtoroI0nvxalF51UFJGGpqBrOLmNrhCGWQezZXu134rMJkQMwQG2UOf4Kw9NgGdPk90jCPYXrqTwyp-Ee9eXQAzeYm3bc6xMTrjXJjBXHoBRV2ZvbKX3BMyUlBDncwMgb-NZg2A2qCGqMrRDLyroTRH1LqiNrT18WiBv1Z4cG9c-qQUrc0cOb0eaoL4h0p2kZyq486l9soO3aE7hwMuz-ksHx9nqpf721XvmFf5doru4nUu44RKRJVKD7D7ZhetTYkmF63foaOfNPfR0jXIim-rBzGFE4cRlvy5Vxt_mBUYKBBHoA-Kf23DravU5saKCEOzVZX6fCxVpccMPRd7Z3vwJ3sXchXrYaSlIqPuwjvHq6NmahySSDZzZMbcYFsuUUT20ojNVBxPR0BBDwRUV6l8GzW68YwXSj17NTxKmPZkp-OZFohi276JBSvsbcFTryWsT7dCuKUqKBHcjs3W3SAoPFee-fLPJ1dplNCROxTK200a_LPBxHhhhDmJ-C7XImuEl7dOCU2a3Ta2XS1xHu7jlKluxiwNyl1wtPv_fy3z8tO8QQiwNTx73N8R5x720gcu94uxdhnF_l_yuSoYyCJWSUGZVywFw=w2280-h1820-no)
Is there a reason you kept those two steel plates welded together instead of using the single piece of aluminium?
Quote from: mr72 on November 04, 2019, 03:25:41 PM
well I haven't actually done it yet.
I did, however, get the left side mounted and adjusted:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3SSGxfn4KQDQnWAe-6MT4hRNWq0E13f8MKmZJUmI3lPoKIYUhw7TnRQj1HHApo3pqstpQlE7ZdX11z-cDBX811djPfgHZmqwN8svPeZ84uH8bhCLhLeBXIjoGxzASmuhvMvNPIX4RHruLObvFlnI2tS84XNjXdGbbs3xZ43oRzPX_37q9A1QJShffkzQ3eUfwpfw_R5VIC38OKCLOgUa0zS1_HWG6IcYqbhyyNGpPBMdD-5d_F8V-UMGhkMnxtB5E6Mu1t6cgBarN-b63YZ6GVuqg9zAjpV-wjVXu_QwrhkAdKGqtAzQoMEagXAnXCi1A6wDZsZdk3IZewzFNVyBsI4SjOa-TT1FovZMPyw5R7zVd2NdCcnAbwVwVbqGSW-NQj3Fb0r3WVXeOAPAtUi3gvFf13MTJ5mVz4N5ag6__RqTQFAMWi8lw15p-sYnNRfcaejdGdxRbTDjtbj1EQgSYzSgsDb8Zn8UnNGF-f4FZxOG1Ob1B97e7JoV5KGRD7PWubWs3Pp3Ied6Lfrn_jJeXgLLu4dc659_6BCO8RGZMwEpLtqRYNRic5PVxe9rclSAKvs7VOkkVOoPxTtC14GreXuHSjcwZ6c8WqfLgMy1ETiXOw-12ETGPbrQD0FXlp9itw4HcWGcEmUCdKaaGUt7-6q1X7QkcAoXvrbFZxZZypB1MIJHMsOYW1yfPEq9GJDovEDxob-NCUDWKebRRNhdN4-TJY5bYbB5ZCOcA4GCg6csmtV6MQ=w469-h323-no)
This left side confuses me. I wonder if there is a better way to do this; would you have done it this way if you had of gone with the closer aluminium plate method first?
Quote from: thatshitcray on June 03, 2020, 11:36:19 PM
This is great, would it be possible to get multiple angles of the foot peg lowering brackets and mods done? Very valuable info here, gets confusing because of the two iterations but has the potential to be it's own instructional.
Yeah, that's a good idea. I also still have the plywood templates. I should make up a dimensioned drawing for them and whip up some instructions with part numbers of parts used etc.
Quote from: thatshitcray on June 04, 2020, 12:52:00 AM
Is there a reason you kept those two steel plates welded together instead of using the single piece of aluminium?
Yes, but not a good one. If I had it to do over again, I'd just make it one piece.
I had initially planned to mount the brake MC directly to the alu plate where the steel bracket is attached. And doing this works but I could find no clearance for the brake switch wiring. Now that I am using a different brake light switch, I might be able to put the MC back where I originally wanted it. It'd be a cleaner install for sure.
The reason I used the steel bracket is because I had it laying around and it solved my initial brake light wiring problem. Also it allowed me to ovalize one of the mounting holes and give me a little more ideal positioning. I didn't design all this with CAD... there are multiple rotational axes and movement of the arcs in this that affect the effectiveness of the brake pushrod, and I didn't calculate all of this. I just kind of rough sketched it on a cardboard template. Having a little slack to adjust in-situ was handy.
Quote
This left side confuses me. I wonder if there is a better way to do this; would you have done it this way if you had of gone with the closer aluminium plate method first?
Yes, this is the best way I have found to do it. You could try mounting the shift lever somehow to its own bracket that hooks to the lower frame hoop and maybe keep the stock (reverse) direction of rotation of the shift lever and perhaps shorten the connecting rod. Also another user here 'nudie' came up with a different method that mounts the new lever essentially directly below (and reverse of) the stock lever and uses a simpler means of actuation that likely has a lot less chance to be affected by flex the way mine was, but it has some other drawbacks that I decided I didn't want. Since this isn't a dedicated off-road or mostly off-road bike I will likely be riding it (and in actuality, always) in normal street clothes so having bolt heads that are going to scrape on the side of my boot toe is a certified bad thing.
What isn't in these pictures is that I changed the mounting bolt that affixes the pivot, again using something I had laying around, a M8 shoulder bolt used as an exhaust hanger bolt on Triumph stock exhaust. It works much better, flexes a lot less and fits perfectly. Plus I reinforced the bracket with a bolt straight into the frame. If the frame cracks, it cracks. I think the chances are virtually zero. But it's not like I'm going to rack up 100K of dirt roads on this thing, it gets sparse use and I can get my welder friend to fix and beef up whatever comes.
I wouldn't call this an ideal way to do this. But it is an effective way to do it and it certainly works.
One note that's not in any of this is how important it is to put blue Loctite on all of these fasteners, especially stuff that pivots. I nearly lost the shift linkage or shift lever more than once before I finally learned my lesson. All those gear shifts rotate the parts just a teeny bit every time you use it and it'll back those bolts right out. And since there are multiple fasteners holding the brake MC, more than stock, I felt it prudent to lock them down too. For the fixing bolts to hold the plates to the frame, I don't know the stock torque spec (didn't look it up), but i recommend "real frikin tight". And use the stock bolts with the very large flanges, that helps spread the load and makes the whole thing more solid.
Can't ride for at least another week or so, but I can take a picture. This is with the vintage flat track number plates.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eKT02VsAdUr_L9KapA0EM6KwVMwzFQXy8L6yRVZf2LIk1bVtltxEJlvu8hjqN-72YGroZuROB0BXARvqczef-ymmZpC-5SN-At8cKCL5JJJtpg3qbKkmbZNh5mjJZ-pXRU81QKeeQXDk7gZdaz5LMQow=w1201-h902-no)
I got worried that my Triumph might experience the same kind of meltdown that my GS did due to the crappy shunt regulator-rectifier, so I went looking in my purchase history to see what part I got for the GS. It was an FH012 regulator from a Kawasaki ZX-6R and it's been brilliant in the GS. I paid $17 for it!
Looking on ebay, I found several available with BIN under $30 and bought another one for my Triumph to do the same conversion project. This one was $18. Inflation I guess. It has been two years. You guys should go jump on one of the others on there. Cheap upgrade.
The Triumph is a bigger project to upgrade because the reg/rect stock is located in the fork below the headlight with a half a mile of wiring that is taped up in a loom, and to swap it I will have to remove all that wiring from the loom and relocate the reg/rect under a side cover. Triumph put the shunt regulator up between the fork legs to try to improve cooling and forestall failure, but the MOSFET unit won't have this problem so I can shorten those wires and improve charging.
The Triumph has been giving me issues with starting occasionally after short trips so I know the charging system needs an overhaul. Here we go!
Great idea and thanks for the heads up. :thumb:
FYI here's the post where I discussed putting that regulator/rectifier on:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php/topic,71055.msg872895.html#msg872895
I had to look it up myself because I am about 90% of the way done putting the exact same type of reg/rect on my Triumph, but in this case I was also relocating it from the stock location between the fork legs to under the tank out of sight, since the MOSFET part doesn't require nearly as much airflow.
Just a reminder here, this is a good mod and has been one of the best things I did to my GS.
Snapped this picture for the picture game, but we'll put it here too just to bring the project up to speed.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3flkjJ_nKkeH2l-j8YhXa7V1Tzatd9pF_pzkcEHIBdSsI2j1rBW6HLamRnYCipqyjRwqKlPLI8ofkFcyupJeWJiYKcLfUoFMz09mVmIpXY56QnO6szaZI1wyYCjJddjYdpJkG9KQZTV4j-qnfk-ig6YxA=w772-h1028-no?authuser=0)
I finally was able to ride yesterday and decided first to run out and do a test ride of the GS, evaluating my last modifications trying to fix what was a misguided carb jetting adventure. TL,DR on that is there was 9500 rpm cutout that I thought might have been an ignition problem, chased it as if it was running too lean and wound up with way too big jets that caused single digit mpg and a crankcase full of gasoline before nearly leaving me stranded blocks from my house. The latest fix was to go back to 125 main jets and put two washers to shim the needle, and I was to test-ride yesterday.
Well, the bike runs pretty much perfect. I still have the feeling that maybe it has a touch of hesitation coming off cruise to accelerate but it's less than before and not worth cracking open. Next time the carbs are off I might add another washer and see if this improves a little. For that matter, maybe pilot mixture a touch richer would fix it too.
But it pulls hard right up to redline. It's quick and fun and even though I had only planned to do like 15 minute test ride and then come back and switch for the Triumph for a longer ride, I wound up riding it for an hour! And it was glorious and lovely! Did absolutely nothing wrong and everything right. The Shinko 705s are scrubbing in nicely and the feel is improving.
One interesting note, the local PD put one of those radar speed signs in my neighborhood and I rode by it on my way home yesterday, and noticed that with the 120/70 front Shinko tire the speedo reads slow by probably 10% or more. I had it on 30 right on the money (speed limit on this street) and it told me I was going 34. Next time I passed it I tried to stick the speedo on 25 and it was reading more like 27 and the sign said 30. Which means when I am revving along at 6.5k rpm on the highway and the speedo reads 60mph I'm probably actually going more like 68. I thought the bike felt a lot quicker than the speedo was saying it was.
OK, so what else is there to do on this bike? Umm... I think one of the gauge lights is out, probably just loose in the socket (it's an LED). But besides that, this thing is DONE!! Dialed in and working brilliantly. The conversion to soft roader is complete and I wouldn't hesitate to ride it on a 500 mile trip right now. It's comfortable and capable on the road as long as you don't want to spend a ton of time at >60mph sustained speeds just because it's revving pretty good and loud, but it handles on the road well and handles any road you put under it whether gravel or pavement or potholes or urban street construction. I think I have successfully resurrected it from exile after I bought the Bonneville.
I'm about to go ride again this morning, and I think I'm gonna take the red renegade, ol number 72. The Bonneville might collect more dust than it should for a while.
Power demand problems are usually too rich. You may have one washer too many under the needle, not one too few.
Cool.
Buddha.
Could be. It was hesitating worse with zero washers. Today's ride it was nearly perfect. I doubt it could get any better truthfully.
It has been a long time since I have been on this forum. Like mr72, I really appreciate my GS500. Every time I take it out I end up going for a longer ride than I had anticipated--except for going to work, of course.
Well I have to admit, if I had left it as stock as it was when I got the Triumph, I don't think I'd be riding it nearly as much.
The cold, hard reality is that my GS was a $900 motorcycle and even with lots of work and money dumped into it compared with the original cost, it was still very old and cheap. Even though it's in a happy spot at the moment, it has not proven reliable yet. On the contrary, up until days before my last ride, I wouldn't have trusted it to get me to and from the grocery store just two miles away. Sure, if I had a 2007 model, one half the age of my GS, it might be reliable without having to dump a ton of work into it, but at nearly three decades of age, a GS500 is just not reliable and usable as a daily rider unless you refurbish the entire thing, and for most people it is false economy to refurbish a bike like this. If you're going to dump a couple of $k and a couple of years worth of the odd weekend into a project bike, there are a lot of candidates that are probably more worth it.
And in the same way, the Triumph is just a better motorcycle and a far better value even at over 4-5x the cost. My Triumph has not been 100% trouble free, but it has been close. It had a designed-in, annoying starting issue that I solved with modification to the wiring to eliminate a low-voltage starting cutout. I just did a regulator-rectifier replacement and relocation not because the stock one was failing but it was a time bomb just like it was on my GS and I didn't want it to ever leave me stranded so I did this mod proactively. And I did a bunch of modifications to the Triumph to make it right for me just like I did for the GS... seat, exhaust, handlebars, LED lighting, shocks, fork springs, etc., but in most cases the Triumph didn't absolutely NEED this stuff to be usable while the GS really did mostly because those mods were more repairs. But I did wind up spending $1500 or more over what I paid for the Triumph to make it right just like I did with the GS. But in the end, the Triumph is a 20 years newer motorcycle. The engine is a better design. The fuel injection is brilliant. It just flat out works 100% of the time. It's way easier to tune and dial in. The wiring is far superior, no sub-par or undersized wires or melting connectors anywhere. Every single part is more refined, looks better, works better, is more durable, etc. I mean, my GS had 21k miles on it when it needed a top end rebuild and everything else on the bike needed a good hard look if not flat out replacement. And my Triumph has 13K on it right now and you couldn't tell it was not brand new off the showroom floor. I expect the Triumph will go 100K before it needs the kind of work that the GS needed at 20K. Sure it cost 5x as much but it really is 5x as good.
Now, through a deliberate and laborious transformation focused entirely on usability and function, not at all on aesthetics or instagram cred like most folks doing the "scrambler" mods, I have turned my GS into a hilariously fun second bike. I want to ride it, even when the far superior Triumph is right there waiting. I even have to move the Triumph out of the way in the garage to get to the GS and I do it on purpose. But this was not without cost, not even close. The GS is a lot like a classic custom bike, it's kind of like a Baja Bug or a Myers Manx, you know? Something that one day when it was young was cheap and usable transportation but then when it was old and kind of useless had new life breathed into it through great effort making it into something far more special and just useful enough to be worth it. But the fact remains that whenever I get on my Triumph, I never have a single though at all about whether it's going to complete the trip without issue. But on the GS it's like every ride is somewhat of a test ride. What's going to break down this time? Is the latest modification or repair going to hold up? It's exciting and fun because you have a sense of accomplishment and escape at the end of the ride when it arrives home with everything still working and having done what you asked of it. And that's really half of the fun, the surprise that comes with pulling off the ride. And that's kind of cool, because a mundane thing like running to the store for a few things turns into an adventure when you are not absolutely sure you'll make it. To make this complete, the trip itself is a joy because while it's working, the GS is just a hoot to be on.
If you had to have only one motorcycle, this is not the one. It will end in heartbreak way too often and you will curse it just as I did before I bought the Triumph. I was ready to push this thing off a cliff back then. I'm not really sure you can have this kind of fun with something that has to be reliable, because that reliability takes away some of the adventure that makes it fun. I am planning a 400 or so mile trip soon to see one of the few remaining suspension bridges on a country road in the middle of nowhere Central TX soon and I'll take the GS and when it happens (BTW this won't happen in summer while it's 100 degrees plus) it will be one of those ride reports that you are like, hey look what I did, ON MY GS500!! Because doing a trip like that on a 28 year old econo-bike made soft roader that was partly built by the unskilled hand of an inexperienced hobbyist is a noteworthy accomplishment. But if I rode there on my Triumph it'd be no big deal. Besides my ability too tolerate so many hours in the saddle, nobody would be impressed if my Bonnie made a trip from here to Key West and back. But even the guys over on advrider would be knocked out if I made it to South Padre and back on my GS. That really says something.
Anyway, so much rambling. I need the adventure in my life that the GS gives me. I also need the reliability and do-all-things-right of the Triumph to make room for the adventure I get with the GS. So while I absolutely do not regret buying the Triumph and I'd do it over again 100 times, I would have regretted it had I sold the GS and I'm very glad I stuck it out and made it what it is. Those of you looking to "upgrade" maybe take note. I'm sure a 20-teens SV650 or MT-07 or ER-6N are all way better motorcycles and will do everything your old clunky GS will do better, more reliably, and for a lot longer time. But that's half the fun sometimes, and may be worth more to you than the $1500 you would get by selling the GS.
I loved reading that, Josh. Thanks for putting the GS500 thing into perspective. While I completely agree with the GS being a cheap commuter, prone to break down and not last very long, I'm also grateful that I have not had such bad luck with my 2004 model. It only acted up once due to fuel starvation on a longish flat-out trip, bearing in mind that I live at 1300m altitude where IC engines have 16% less power than at sea level, and flat-out is seldom close to 160 km/h or 100mph. A new fuel filter fixed the fuel starvation problem, though.
So, I have quite a reliable GS500 and knowing that, I have decided to throw money (lots of it) into doing a restoring and modifying job. I hope the end result will turn out to be what I'm expecting; something to be proud of and enjoy - not because of it's inherent value as a motorcycle, but because of it's uniqueness as a modified MC. I'm looking forward to just owning it and riding when I feel like it.
As a 22-year old, I owned a 650cc Bonneville and know exactly what you mean by it being a better bike. But now I love my GS!
Comparing the new Bonneville to the old ones is not really fair to the new ones at all.
The thing is, when the reinvented Hinkley Triumph began putting the new Bonneville on the drawing board prior to its introduction in 2001, they were unencumbered by history. They had an opportunity with a blank sheet of paper to design and build an all new motorcycle, with the goal of carrying over the aesthetic and feel of the old bikes without a continuous evolutionary path. This is a two sided coin, but it forced them to build something new and sort of bespoke in most ways for the target market. They didn't adapt an existing design or provide a veneer of "classic" onto something existing from the catalog like virtually all of the rest of the market were doing, in part because they didn't have the option. As a result they designed it on the whole for its intended market and for the current time and market.
The GS500 was very different. Suzuki had a long history of this GS line of bikes and had been slowly evolving them where necessary for decades before taking a big departure on the frame but really fitting what was only a slightly updated engine from the GS4xx bikes to a simple down-revved and cheap version of a chassis they had already been developing for years. Given it was intended to be an entry level or basic/inexpensive/economy bike, they had every cause to recycle or adapt as many parts as they could to realize economies of scale and produce a low margin, high volume product. It's an entirely different formula from what Triumph did with the new Bonneville (air cooled) and that more than anything explains why the Triumph is just a flat out better product regardless of price. Particularly in the used market, a 2009 EFI Bonneville is going to be a far better motorcycle than a 2009 GS500 with the same mileage, or even one at the same price. There's just no way around the result of design efficiencies that Suzuki took advantage of compared with Triumph.
Even today if Suzuki makes something new, it is going to involve using a bunch of previously available parts or very slightly adapted parts. My dad's 2011 TU250X is a great example. Sure, it has a UJM looking tank and twin shocks but the frame is largely the same as a DR350/400. Sure, it has a 250cc air cooled engine that's not really available on any other Suzuki (that I know of) but it's nearly identical to a DR350 engine. Before designing anything brand new, they look in the parts bin and see if something already in production, already tested, already automated and compliant with regulations etc., can be used. But on my Bonneville, the handlebar is even unique to that one specific model of Bonneville. The handlebar risers are not even the same between a T100, Thruxton and Scrambler. The triples are different on different models and the fork legs are different lengths across the Bonneville lines because they dialed in the handling and feel for the different sized stock wheels and tires. For the first 10 years of production of these bikes, the Thruxton and Bonnevilles had different compression ratio and trough all the years the Scrambler had a 270 degree crank while the others had a 360, because feel and fit for purpose matters more than economies of scale. But when you are only building a few thousand a year vs. a few hundred thousand a year those differences are easier to manage. Triumph is a boutique manufacturer, Suzuki is not. So Suzuki is induced to come up with a formula that will sell and work in practical use while minimizing upfront NRE costs but for the boutiques like Triumph, Moto Guzzi, Ducati, Husqvarna, and to an extent even KTM, NRE is a much bigger built-in cost of making anything since they simply don't have a huge array of Legos to choose from like Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Yamaha.
I think this all adds up to explain why a GS500 with 26Kmi on it like mine can be a dodgy occasional use bike that requires a lot of home mechanicking to make it work while a similarly-aged Triumph or BMW can be reliable as a stone.
Hey friends. Right this minute I m somewhat seriously considering selling my GS. I can probably sort out the current hard idling issue but then I will probably just park it back in the garage and rarely use it, putting it in precisely the same condition again in 6 months. It needs to be ridden regularly to stay happy.
Now that my Bonneville is back from the dead, I have lost most of my motivation to fiddle with the GS. It's now a chore waiting to be done and taking up garage space. It's a blast to ride and potentially a great bike for this purpose, but the fact remains that I just don't need it. If I could get $2k for it, I'd do it. Then I'd buy something else, something with fuel injection, maybe a Ducati scrambler. Something I'd ride more than once a month.
I got $500! That's be a great ride from Austin to Houston,... woop woop!
I'd have to dance like,...
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CleanUnlawfulApatosaur-max-1mb.gif)
(https://www.motohouston.com/forums/images/smilies/laughing6.gif)
but, why not keep? I really enjoy riding a different bike everyday.
you'd have a heck of an adventure getting this thing all the way to Houston. Might run once it was on I10.
I'm sure my grumpiness will pass and I'll fix it and ride it. Still planning a gravel roads trip to see a suspension bridge up by Lampasas this spring. But I would trade it straight across for a DR650 right now, and might even put money with it for a vanvan. Talk about a bike I would never use!
I enjoyed the last few posts.
I am kinda in the same spot with wanting to fix up my GS500. I can't take them as seriously as others do.
And I do plan to purchase a Triumph Trident or Bonny, or maybe a XSR 700 next year too, for all the same reasons you laid out.
That's new Triumph Trident looks really good if you want a naked bike like that. Bonneville is a whole different animal than the modern naked bikes you mentioned. I'd likely buy a used XSR900 before a new Trident even though I have a closet full of Triumph apparel.
I just want my GS to work. I need to figure out a mothballing regimen that keeps it running without doing carb work every time I want to ride it. Taking months off of riding due to foot surgery and a motorcycle wreck and recovery did not do my gs any favors. When it's working I love it. Unfortunately I don't know how to keep it in that state with the current usage pattern.
Im a very new rider, so the moderate and linear power delivery of the Trident appeals to me over a more jumpy bike.
My other bike right now is a Ducati Monster 600, and at only 500sumthin CC's, it's still very torky and jumpy and intimidating for me as a new rider.
then just quit fooling around with aesthetic distractions n get your GS running correctly. It's about as user friendly when riding as a motorcycle can get.
That said, a new 80 hp triple is not going to be my more easy to ride than your Ducati. On the contrary, I figure the Trident will be a wheelie machine. If you can't ride the Ducati smoothly, a bike with gobs more torque is not going to be any better. Maybe a Bonneville really is for you. Or better yet, a street twin or street scrambler. Those are docile, low center of gravity, reliable, and have rain mode and ABS. Maybe a street scrambler will also meet your desire for a scrambler looking bike. IMHO sell both of your bikes and get one of those!
The monster 600 weighs just under 400lbs and over 50 ftlbs of turks. Plus it's been super aggressively jetted with an aftermarket full exhaust.
Every review I've heard of the triumph trident is that's its real docile until you wind it up a little.
How 'bout a Royal Enfield?
Methinks that should satisfy the torquey feeling without too much excessive wheelying n'est ç'pas?
:angeldevil:
Totally agree, a RE650 would be a really good choice. Affordable, still air cooled like God intended, with ABS and a warranty.
OK, so good news.
Maybe.
Quick catch up on history. Last summer I got the last of the mods on the GS done and got the jetting and needle shim sorted out at long last, so it was running great and life was good. Then I had foot surgery and couldn't ride any motorcycle for nearly two months. Then I didn't ride it, but I did ride my other bike and wrecked it, broke my same foot I had just had surgery on, and couldn't ride for another two months. Then after sitting for 4+ months I went to ride it since the Triumph was still in repair, and it ran fine but didn't want to idle and would stall at idle. That's when the death spiral began. I think the only problem was bad gas maybe with a little bit of cloggy pilot jets. I put some Seafoam in a fresh tank of gas, rode it a little more, it didn't improve a lot, and then simultaneously the Triumph was finished and winter came so I didn't ride it again for like over a month. When I finally went back to ride it again, I left it on PRI too long, gas ran everywhere including the crankcase, I didn't know there was gas in the crankcase so I tried to ride it and wound up getting the idle all screwed up just trying to get it to run long enough to get home. That was maybe December.
OK, so yesterday I went out determined to fix this right.
Drained the oil and changed it, there was a lot of gas.
Cleaned the plugs, they were black.
Reset the pilot mixture to 2.5 turns out.
Bike fired right up once I primed the carbs again and it idled ... at 7K RPM!!! with no choke!!
So I finally got the idle set back to where it belongs and it runs and idles fine now. I didn't actually ride it, though, due to time. Will test ride today. I think the pilot mixture is too rich since it starts without choke when cold and stalls when I put on the choke. So the plan is to test ride and set the idle today.
With any luck, the seafoamed carbs will hold up and I won't have to pull the carbs to clean.
What I think was wrong was just bad gas. And then I screwed up the idle mixture and idle speed while trying to get it to run before the Seafoam had done its job, then everything went south once there was gas in the crankcase... I think when the crankcase gets overfull and diluted with gas it blows oil past the rings into the cc and with enough gas in the oil it makes it run REAL rich and fouls the plugs at idle, thus my problem.
So perhaps all is back to nearly normal. Time will tell. I really wanted to ride it yesterday but didn't have time, but man it makes a sound I love!
I have to get it going because the tags are expired so I need to get it inspected. That's the goal today, get it to run well enough to get it to the inspection shop, get it warmed up enough to adjust the pilot mixture and idle speed.
Well. Test ride today was a mixed bag.
Bike finally started and ran but only after extended cranking with a few loud backfires in the process.
Then I rode it and actually once I got the idle speed turned down low enough it basically ran ok. But then it did precisely what it was doing before all this. If you let it idle more than a few seconds the idle speed falls to below about 500 rpm and it dies. I can crank up the idle speed to about 3K and it'll "idle" there, but if I get it below that it basically falls until it stalls.
Which would be not horrible news (back to square 1), except that the battery is also not charging. I ran it on the battery tender all night, today it started with fairly long cranking then I rode it like 20 minutes, it stalled one time during the ride and I started it right back up, but now that it's home it won't turn over. So that sucks.
I am going to jump it and get it back up into the garage and then tear it down for real now. The tags are expiring so I'll probably just have to let that lapse. I suppose I'll pull the battery and take it to be tested. Really sucks, this battery has like 2K miles on it, even though it is over 3 years old.
Quote from: mr72 on February 22, 2021, 01:13:53 PM
I am going to jump it and get it back up into the garage and then tear it down for real now. The tags are expiring so I'll probably just have to let that lapse. I suppose I'll pull the battery and take it to be tested. Really sucks, this battery has like 2K miles on it, even though it is over 3 years old.
2k miles in 3 years is not much riding. Do you keep the battery on a tender when its not being ridden? If not, the battery is likely toast. Non lithium batteries don't do well sitting for months at a time.
I really need you to fix your bike so you can go back to posting your GS carb blog post on every carb question thread. Have you tried referring to your own blog post?
LoL. I have to go read my blog post just to remember how to fix these carbs. I should edit my signature to have the actual carb blog post link in it so I can just refer folks to the link.
Well it's not in fact the battery. It's a short in between pads in the commutator in the starter. Discovered this by trying to jump it... Smoke coming out while the starter button is down is a dead giveaway. Put it in 2nd and rolled it a little bit and viola, it started right up. So it's in my garage now. Guess I'll be pulling the starter. Along with the carbs and the tank and the airbox. This isn't making me much happier.
If my GS behaved like this, I would seriously not be feeling the love for these bikes like I do.
TBH I only put about 1,000 miles on each year... I don't ride as much as I'd like to, due to a number of different things.
That being said, I've owned my bike for 9 years now and I've had very very few problems... and I'm thankful to never have ended up with bad fuel. The gas in the oil thing happened to me a few years ago and I dealt with it asap.
Good idea about the carb link in your signature! I continue to wish you luck getting this all sorted. Being frustrated sucks. I wish for you to have a GS like mine that always starts and wants to go and treat ya good.
Quote from: mr72 on February 22, 2021, 05:01:04 AM
Totally agree, a RE650 would be a really good choice. Affordable, still air cooled like God intended, with ABS and a warranty.
I have a picture of an Ice Queen Continental hanging up in my cubicle at work. Was going to be my 'second bike'. But there's not a RE dealer for 100+ miles near me, AND they just don't seem to be good deal new or used. Like yes, $6500 is a fair price for the bike. But you can't seem to find the 650 used at all, and frankly... I can get an XSR 700 for basically the same price. You know the japanese bike is better made and more reliable than the Indian one. I seriously called a few yamasaki dealers this christmas, got quotes for a 2019 leftover XSR700 for $7300 OOTD.
Supposing it does break down, where do you take your RE bike if the closest dealer is two hours away?
Just hasn't seemed practical the more I think about it. But there's 2 yamaha dealers, and triumph dealer in town.
Well, an INT650 and an XSR700 are entirely different motorcycles. I wouldn't worry about the distance to a dealer, but what do I know? I don't trust dealers as far as I can throw them and do all the work on my bikes myself.
I also don't agree that a Yamaha is necessarily a better built or better quality motorcycle than a RE. I mean, KTM and BMW both build motorcycles in India. My Thailand-made Triumph is a far better bike in quality, design, performance, reliability, every measure, than my Japanese bike or any of my dad's three Japanese bikes.
But anyway, in the off chance there is a problem with a new or under-warranty RE that's covered by warranty, then I'm sure the 100 miles to the dealer wouldn't be a game changer to me. But I live in Texas, and around here 100 miles is nothing.
One thing's for sure, there's a lot more TO go wrong on that high-tech WC Yamaha than there is on an authentically-old-school RE. The thing about the Yamaha that rubs me the wrong way is that it's a basic, standard modern motorcycle with goofy looking dress up parts trying to make it look "classic". At least a Ducati Scrambler does a much better job of making a modern bike look classic. But the Triumph and RE both have real classic chassis and the right lines. There's no pretending. Street Twin and Street Scrambler are both pretty inexpensive used since the Brit bike fans tend to think of them as "not real Bonnevilles". I'd still rather have a new RE than a WC Triumph but given the chance to pick either of them I chose a late model used air-cooled Triumph twin. Simplicity and authenticity win out over age. They still made them as late as 2016.
Hey, maybe you should add a Moto-Guzzi V7 to your list. I seriously considered one when I bought my Triumph but in the end they just felt too small for my long arms and legs to fit comfortably. But I see them all the time in low miles great condition for under $4K used.
maybe the used bike market is better in TX.
Here in RVA, even though there's a KTM/Triumph/MotoGuzzi dealer, there is very little used inventory at that dealer, facebook marketplace or craigslist.
You're not wrong, I looked at all of them. And I like them all. If I could get a good deal on a super basic street twin, I think that's what I would want. But I can't. So the Yamaha is appealing.
You view the Yamaha XSR as a fake classic. I see it in the same light as the GS500. It's a modern sport/standard bike (MT07), but with out dumb 'modern' stuff on it. So nice round headlight and UJM ergos, instead of the alien plastic looks all it's japanese contempories have now. And look at the power plant: that parallel twin is modern, it's also WILDLY popular across a myriad of successful bikes (parts bin bike just like GS500).
Well.... I finally bit the bullet and took the GS apart to "fix it right".
Last time I had the carbs apart and evaluated (and changed!) the condition of the o-rings was probably 3K miles ago and probably 4 years ago. Since then I bought the Triumph and basically stopped using the GS. Probably hasn't had more than 1000 miles put on it in the past 3.5 years. I was hopeful that by using only ethanol-free gas in it, that would forestall any short-term issues with o-rings, but I was wrong.
So I ordered a pair of carb rebuild kits and took it apart to see what all was wrong.
The main problem making it not run was obvious to me before I took it apart. I assumed the pilot jets were clogged, and in fact they both were completely blocked. Even if they had been clear, though, there would have still been running issues on pilot because the pilot needle o-rings were shot. One side was leaking fuel from the pilot needle and the other had a cracked o-ring making it like a "C-ring". Who knows why that wasn't leaking.
Also, as I pulled the carbs I noticed lots of fuel in the intake boots. So the bowls were leaking as the bike sat, which explains why it was so hard to start after sitting overnight, requiring PRI. Hopefully only a few CC of fuel made it into my fresh oil since it's only been run once since the oil change. Anyway, my first thought was that the float needles must be leaking but they look like they are in good shape. However, the needle seat o-rings are completely shot. So this adds to the range of problems I was having, including likely inconsistent float level due to leaking fuel.
And the float bowl gaskets are ruined.
Parts are supposed to come in Monday. I guess I'll try to be smart and replace the starter while it's apart. Sure is easier to get to with the carbs out. I'm pretty confident that once I get the new o-rings and seals in and the carbs cleaned up right, it should go right back to working right. I'm going to add enzyme fuel treatment to my fuel regimen in hopes to keep it from breaking down the carb o-rings so quickly. And I also ordered an inline fuel filter, I might see if I can find a way to cram that in there. I just think that with the infrequent use the bike gets, this may be worth the effort.
So maybe next week I will get the old GS back in good working order, but the fact remains that with the limited usage pattern I have, this bike may not be a good choice for me to keep. I keep going back and forth, but the truth is I won't be able to ride it often enough to keep this kind of thing from happening once a year or more. So I might get serious about selling it this spring. We'll see. It still has the very unique combination of power, weight, and hand-built cool factor that would be difficult for me to replace. I just need it to also have fuel injection. Perhaps building a Microsquirt for it might be worth it rather than investing a few more grand into a whole different bike.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/71ceb79cf4ae89bb129c4cd1c53ccacc/tenor.gif)
Quote from: mr72 on February 27, 2021, 05:46:48 AM
And the float bowl gaskets are ruined.
Any idea how that happened? All the o-ring/gasket problems sounds like over use of solvent carb cleaner but I know you wouldn't do that. 3.5 years of sitting doesn't seem like enough time to ruin the carb other than bad gas/clogged jets. Especially if the bike was used a few time during those 3.5 years. Very weird if you ask me.
Did you use name-brand parts for your last carb rebuild or was is no-name stuff from eBay?
For comparison, my 2006 GS still has most of the originally rubber parts and has gone through many 6+ months periods without use. Carbs rubber bits and fuel lines were recently replaced out of caution during a top end rebuild but they all looked pretty good honestly for being 15 years old.
I got it all buttoned up today. New starter, freshly cleaned carbs, new float needles and o rings and float seats. Dialed in the float height. Once it was all together I pumped the tires up and went on a test ride. Bike fired up instantly and after a few minutes it worked out a stumble at 4.5k on it's own, and now runs and idles flawlessly.
Makes me want to go on a trip to seek miles of gravel roads. Regency bridge. My parents' place out by Castell. Love/hate has swung back to love.
Good to hear your GS is running fine again. :woohoo:
Congrats.
Nice! :cheers:
Hour and a half ride today. Bike ran perfectly, aside from the new behavior of slightly grumpy starting and fussy cold running for the first few minutes. Once warmed up it was brilliant. At this point I don't think I'd hesitate to do any long distance trip on it.
What ??? Arent you over in TX somewhere ??? Its there a Tornado or 12 roaming around there that they are fear porning the crap out of us here in SC ?
I mean weather channel is worse than super bowl for ads now. Plus with 14 tickers for everything from pollen to bear sightings to corona virus biting the chupacabra you got everything scrolling everywhere ... they might as well call it ADD TV, if you have it, here's the medication, if you dont keep watching and you'd get it soon.
Cool.
Buddha.
LOL. Well, it was windy. And eventually got really windy, so much that I put both bikes in the garage because the GS in particular will blow over. North of us there were tornadoes, but we just had a brief overnight thunderstorm and then it was overcast, cool and windy.
Looks like the next three or four days are going to be brilliant Texas spring weather and I'm hoping to ride every day. Probably will take the Triumph but I'll mix in the GS now that it's working so well.
Yea that sheitte is here now and likely 3-4 days of brilliant weather after. Too bad I'm making a Charlotte run hauling some plywood saturday.
Cool.
Buddha.
This is turning into a real "classic bike" ownership experience.
That is, you spend more time working on it than riding it.
I went for a brief ride, maybe 30-40 minutes. Bike continues to be fussy when cold. It starts ok but I think the choke is really not working, so I need to check and make sure the cable is adjusted and seated right. But once it warms up, it runs like a scalded cat.
But, first thing I noticed was lots of oil leaking from the left fork seal. So I ordered new fork seals. And I think my rear brake situation has gotten a lot worse, it seems now I press the pedal 4 inches before it begins to engage. I have new brake pads ready to put in, need to bleed it and adjust. But more alarming, the bike winds up with false neutrals in between 3-4-5-6 gearshifts often and even sometimes will not shift at all even though the shifter has been actuated. Last time I changed the oil, I didn't change the filter (this was a gas-in-the-oil change), and I put in Rotella T4. Well, I hear T4 can cause shifting misbehavior so I hope this is the case. I bought a gal of T6 and have a new filter so I'll do an oil change and hope that fixes it.
The bike's still a riot to ride. With the zip-tie-mod throttle and 14t front sprocket it is high strung and just wants to go. The clutch is surprisingly non-linear compared with my Triumph so it kind of jerks a little bit which makes it do little teeny wheelies sometimes coming from a stop.
Anyway, I have some rides planned for this bike and I would be doing them in the next week before I start my new job but I doubt I'll get the fork seals done in time. The shifting thing worries me enough that doing a 2.5 hour one-way ride sounds like a kind of bad idea. But I still want to go. I'll see if I can get in gear over the weekend and sort out the fork seals and do the oil change, rear brake pads, bleed the rear brake, try to get it 100% roadworthy for a 5 hour round trip ride.
Your GS sounds like what they would call "a good hobby" in my neck of the woods - because there is always something to do on it on weekends. :tongue2:
My 2004 GS OTOH, was quite serviceable with no problems whatsoever when I cut off the sub-frame to start the restomod process. Sounds crazy, but I just couldn't stand looking at the neglected appearance anymore. It stood in the sun and rain for three years before I acquired it.
Good luck with the new job.
Yeah well I want my hobby to be RIDING it.
I'm sure I'll keep it around and keep it running. Getting a regimen of fuel treatment and riding cadence down should improve my experience with it quite a bit. Fork seals are timely right now. Rear brake is timely. So this is not like it's a huge thing. But geez, this bike has only 26K miles on it, my Triumph has nearly 17K and is basically mint condition comparably.
I am on the lookout for a VanVan or maybe a DR650SE. If I wind up with one of those, it might seriously intrude on my GS's riding time and my patience for working on it. It's just if I am to have a classic bike that's a project bike, the GS is not the one I want. Maybe an XS650 would be worth this amount of tinkering. Or a Norton Commando. Even a GS450 or a GR650.
It's understandable that you feel that way about your GS. After all, it's not a very special bike, nor a collector's item.
The GS500 is all I have though, and at my age and in my financial situation, I cherish having, and working on my GS. It's either that or not having a bike at all, so I'm rather sentimental about the GS.
I hate to say it but what you are experiencing is not unique to your GS500. Its just the nature of the GS500. The last bikes destined for USA were made 13 years ago so at this point every GS500 has either a lot of miles, a lot of sitting around, or some combination of the two. With enough effort, mechanical and electrical aptitude, it is possible to get 4,000 miles intervals out of a GS500 without any problems. Anything more than that is just luck.
There are few parts on my GS500 I haven't touched, repaired or replaced. Off the top of my head, the only things I haven't had issues with are the bottom end and the starter motor. I've repaired or replaced or just dealt long-term with malfunctions in parts that other bikes never have issues with. For some illogical reason that makes me more willing to take it on trips because I feel like I can fix anything on the darn thing or find someone who can and many of the things that go wrong won't prevent you from getting home again.
You won't like hearing this but even if you buy that VanVan, you are in too deep with the GS. Its in your blood and soul at this point and it will always be your motorcycle. Even if you sell it, you will spend years regretting it and eventually find it on craigslist and have to buy it back to fix all the issues the intermediate owner inflicted upon the GS.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 26, 2021, 12:13:36 PM
I hate to say it but what you are experiencing is not unique to your GS500.
yeah, I know. What baffles me though is how it is not as reliable as some other bike of the same age and mileage typically are, in particular Triumph. I think part of this equation is that the GS was designed and built to a specific market price target. But also I think the parts bin reuse may have resulted in a lot of corner cutting in the GS whole something like my Bonneville was a completely fresh design in 2001.
Quote
You won't like hearing this but even if you buy that VanVan, you are in too deep with the GS. Its in your blood and soul at this point and it will always be your motorcycle.
that's for sure. It's why I didn't sell it and likely never will. I just get cyclically frustrated with it because I put a lot of work into getting it finally sorted and then like 100 miles later something new breaks. At this rate I'm sure once I finally replace that one last 30 year old part, the first things I replaced will begin to go south.
My dad keeps trying to talk me into buying some vintage motorcycle I think mostly because he'd love to have one and I can afford it. But given my limited tolerance for working on my GS, I don't want something that's twice as much work to keep running with part 10x as hard to find. At least with the GS, there is no real downside to creative repair, improvising the non stock part to work here and there, or really value-detrimental mods. I mean, I have a 2004 tank on mine!
I heard long ago that one people are creators an others are maintainers. This is the core issue. I enjoy working on stuff that I am creating or building. I detest working on things for maintenance. Replacing fork seals? No. Replacing the whole forks with DR650 forks and fabrication of special parts that require ingenuity and trial and error? Yes! Cleaning the carbs? Nope. Fitting fuel injection from a ninja 400 with months of tinkering and having to learn to weld in the process? Sign me up. But once I have done enough of this creative work, it becomes my creation and I'm stuck maintaining it if for no reason besides that nobody else knows what it is.
NEW MILESTONE MET!
Yesterday I rode my GS, twice, without anything breaking!
Both were errand runs, shake-out since the last work I did on it. In First was probably 20 miles split among a couple of errands, then I went on a 1.5 hour ride on my Bonneville, and then I put the top box back on the GS and used it for another errand where I needed to take home a can of spray paint.
So. The work.
I replaced the fork seals last weekend. Once I made the "special tool" out of the long bolts that came from a set of coil spring compressors, this job was pretty easy. I figured out that to avoid having to realign the forks afterward, remove them one leg at a time. I didn't have enough of one type of fork oil to do the job so I did what you are told not to do, I mixed about 45% Bel-Ray 15w, 45% Maxima 10w, and the rest Advance Auto Parts house brand ATF. One of the dust caps didn't want to stay put so I put some black RTV on it. Bike rides great, handles right, I have no complaints about my totally redneck oil cocktail.
Also, ever since my foot peg mod the rear brake has had issues. I thought the problem was that the pivot was in the wrong place, but I figured I could improve it a little bit with some adjustment. Problem was it had about three inches of travel before the brake engaged. I carefully adjusted the pushrod until 1/4" movement activates the pressure brake light switch. This resulted in a useful and firm rear brake pedal. WIN!
I also adjusted the choke because the bike doesn't seem to want to start when cold and runs like ... well... poorly, until it warms up. I took about 10mm of slack out of the choke cable. No help. Well maybe a little bit. But it still is hard to start and runs bad when cold. But it is a beast when it's warmed up. So the choke has issues. And I am going to live with those issues because I hate pulling that tank off.
Bike is running like a top and is back to its old ways of being an absolute blast to ride. If only it'll stay running long enough, I hope to very soon take some longer (5 hour plus) trips including a lot of gravel and plenty of highways on it.
I dug riding it enough that I thought maybe I should make up a GS500 ADV conversion kit to sell, because I really do think it's a great ADV platform. It's 100 lb lighter than most of the latest batch of medium displacement (~500cc) ADV bikes with road-biased tires/wheels like a CB5000X. It has nearly double the power of the modern single-cylinder ADV bikes in the same weight category (BMW, KTM, Kawa 3xx). Of course, there's no way to make a kit.
Here's what it took:
1. Dual-sport handlebar (I used KX-Hi bend alloy bar)
2. ROX-style risers (set the bar back 2" towards seat)
3. Katana 600 rear shock
4. Lower forks in triples, caps level with top triple
5. 0.90kg/mm fork springs
6. Custom footpeg/shifter/brake mounting plates, BMW foot pegs
7. Tusk shift lever with heim joint, custom shift linkage with pushrod and heim joints built from cut up stock shifter
8. 80/20 tires ... 150/70 rear and 120/70 front Shinko E705 or similar
I also made up a rear rack and put a "scooter" top box on it, also have a medium size magnetic tank bag, bar end mirrors, and made wire mesh side panels for appearance purposes to go with my flat-tracker vintage "72" side number plates. And I reversed the rear fender and made mods to that.
No way to turn all that into a kit. Mostly the suspension, control (HB/footpeg/brake/shifter) and tires are absolutely necessary to ADVize a GS500. It's a completely different animal after the changes.
Quote from: mr72 on April 02, 2021, 05:39:39 AM
I dug riding it enough that I thought maybe I should make up a GS500 ADV conversion kit to sell, because I really do think it's a great ADV platform. It's 100 lb lighter than most of the latest batch of medium displacement (~500cc) ADV bikes with road-biased tires/wheels like a CB5000X. It has nearly double the power of the modern single-cylinder ADV bikes in the same weight category (BMW, KTM, Kawa 3xx). Of course, there's no way to make a kit.
I wouldn't give the GS500 too much credit. The wet weight of a GS500F is actually 4 pounds heavier than the CB500X. They make about the same power so its basically a wash. If anything, the CB is getting an extra couple horsepower to the rear wheel.
A GS500E is 19 lbs lighter than a CB500F but the GS doesn't have to carry around a catalytic converter, ABS brake system or larger forks and tires...all of which may be worth the 19 pounds. And again, I think the CB is putting an extra couple horsepower to the rear wheel so its basically a wash.
If I was going in fresh without 13 years of interest in the GS500 I would choose the CB500F as the better do everything bike and the CB500X as the better adventure bike. GS is only better if you want to learn to turn a wrench. Your bike has shown us that much.
My research says a CB500X is 434 lb and a GS500E is 373 lb. That makes the Honda 61 lb heavier. My GS has had the center stand removed, has much smaller and lighter muffler, alloy handlebar, and a handful of other sub 1lb weight reductions so I estimate my GS to be more like 360 lb. With the weight saving mods on my Triumph, I figure it's around 460 lb wet weight. Let me tell you, the difference in weight between it and my GS is absolutely night and day.
True, if I were starting over, I likely would start with something like a CB500X. If my GS were to be stolen off my street, I'd buy a CB500X. But I'd be sorry I had to do that, because there's a lot of character the GS has that is missing in the CB. Mostly, I just can't get along with the idea of a water cooled motorcycle. I'm sure the Honda would be a lot more reliable and perform better, and I'd love fuel injection.
I actually did some "adventure" type riding on my GS just two days ago. Up here in Lago Vista and Jonestown there are a lot of "roads" that are unbearably steep and really only passable with a 4wd vehicle. My adventurized GS did it just fine!
Why is a CB500 so freaking heavy ? I thought perimeter frames were heavy as are the ridiculous old casting with dirty aluminum in the GS cyl and fins and steel sleeves. The CB has a much much smaller motor with cleaner aluminum and nikasil coating isn't it ?
Well that could be offset by the water and the radiator, but still that's a lot more than I'd expect.
Yea cat and other crap needs to be tossed first chance you get, but does the O2 sensor go into the part after the kat ?
The Bolt has it before and I carefully cut the thing right after it but o2 sensor in that bike does nothing to the jetting, they should have had it run closed loop, I think its only closed loop at idle or something stupid like that.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: mr72 on April 04, 2021, 06:41:52 AM
My research says a CB500X is 434 lb and a GS500E is 373 lb. That makes the Honda 61 lb heavier. My GS has had the center stand removed, has much smaller and lighter muffler, alloy handlebar, and a handful of other sub 1lb weight reductions so I estimate my GS to be more like 360 lb. With the weight saving mods on my Triumph, I figure it's around 460 lb wet weight. Let me tell you, the difference in weight between it and my GS is absolutely night and day.
True, if I were starting over, I likely would start with something like a CB500X. If my GS were to be stolen off my street, I'd buy a CB500X. But I'd be sorry I had to do that, because there's a lot of character the GS has that is missing in the CB. Mostly, I just can't get along with the idea of a water cooled motorcycle. I'm sure the Honda would be a lot more reliable and perform better, and I'd love fuel injection.
I actually did some "adventure" type riding on my GS just two days ago. Up here in Lago Vista and Jonestown there are a lot of "roads" that are unbearably steep and really only passable with a 4wd vehicle. My adventurized GS did it just fine!
You are comparing the dry weight of the GS500 to the wet (curb) weight of the CB500X. Fort9 has a great video about how dry weights are calculated using the sum of the bottom end of the tolerances of every part on the motorcycle. Manufacturers never actually put a finished motorcycle on a scale to get that number. So is it possible that some GS500E magically received the lightest manufactured version of every part on the assembly line so that it could weigh 373 lbs without battery acid, oil, brake fluid or gasoline? Technically yes, but I doubt any of us received that unicorn motorcycle. Manufacturer weights from the "dry" weight days are just fantasy.
The road ready weight of a 2001 GS500E is 425 lbs+ so I doubt the '89 - '00 E model can be much less than that. Maybe around 417 lbs because the older models have less fuel capacity.
373 was the quoted wet weight of a GS500E of pre-2000 vintage. I think you might be thinking the F, which with fairings, bigger tank, oil cooler, who knows what else, adds weight.
Manufacturers used dry weight back then. Where do you see that 373 is the wet weight?
Here is a good summary of the E models:
http://www.suzukicycles.org/GS-series/GS500E.shtml#gsc.tab=0 (http://www.suzukicycles.org/GS-series/GS500E.shtml#gsc.tab=0)
Quote from: The Buddha on April 05, 2021, 05:35:05 AM
Why is a CB500 so freaking heavy ?
The CB500
X is that heavy. I think a lot of it is in the bigger front wheel, longer forks, longer shock, and who knows what else "Adventure" parts they put on it.
But modern bikes are just freaking heavy. I mean, why is my Bonneville nearly 500 lb? I can't figure where they have hidden the extra 100 lb. I am sure it's in the very stiff frame and overbuilt cast iron bottom end and I probably am glad it's that strong, and I've seen how you have to gut one of these bikes to get it close to 400 lb. Insane.
Quote
Yea cat and other crap needs to be tossed first chance you get, but does the O2 sensor go into the part after the kat ?
The Bolt has it before and I carefully cut the thing right after it but o2 sensor in that bike does nothing to the jetting, they should have had it run closed loop, I think its only closed loop at idle or something stupid like that.
On my Triumph the "mini cats" were integrated in the entry to the silencers. That's what's mostly different between the stock exhaust and the "TORS" (Triumph Off Road Specific) exhaust that are commonly swapped on. And the O2 sensors on the Triumph are only used at idle. The whole thing runs open loop. I disabled the O2 sensor using TuneECU along with the remap. Makes no difference in how it runs at all. It only cares about MAF and IAT at certain RPM ranges but the vast majority of the time the mapping is static according to RPM and throttle position. I suspect that's the way most motorcycles are these days.
Surprised your Bolt has carbs! Isn't that like a 2018 model or something?
Quote from: Bluesmudge on April 05, 2021, 10:30:15 AM
Manufacturers used dry weight back then. Where do you see that 373 is the wet weight?
Here is a good summary of the E models:
http://www.suzukicycles.org/GS-series/GS500E.shtml#gsc.tab=0 (http://www.suzukicycles.org/GS-series/GS500E.shtml#gsc.tab=0)
Hmm... I don't remember where I found that number. I also found a number of errors on that specific page, but hey, they are probably right about the weight. I find it surprising that the wet weight of a GS500 is almost exactly that of a SV650!
Quote from: mr72 on April 05, 2021, 10:34:10 AM
But modern bikes are just freaking heavy.
Manufacturers just started being more honest with the "ready to ride" weight. Kawasaki published the dry weight of the pre '07 KLR as 337 lbs but the actual curb weight was 417 lbs. Suzuki used to say a DR650 weighed 324 lbs but now despite no changes to the bike since 1996 it weighs 366. Where did those 42 lbs come from? I would be skeptical of even the newer published wet weights but at least its closer to reality.
Wet weight of 1999 GS500E: 401 lbs Dry weight of 1999 GS500E: 373 lbs
We weight of 2021 CB500F: 418 lbs Dry weight of 2021 CB500F: 382 lbs
The GS500 is 17 lbs lighter "ready to ride." So its not a night and day difference when you consider that you are getting a couple more horsepower and bigger/better suspension and tires on the modern CB. Plus the CB is less polluting, gets better fuel economy, and is virtually maintenance free compared to the GS500.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on April 05, 2021, 10:56:34 AM
The GS500 is 17 lbs lighter "ready to ride." So its not a night and day difference when you consider that you are getting a couple more horsepower and bigger/better suspension and tires on the modern CB. Plus the CB is less polluting, gets better fuel economy, and is virtually maintenance free compared to the GS500.
Ah but I was talking about the CB500
X compared with my particular (Lightness Added [TM]) GS500. The X is 434 lb. And my GS is a few lb below the standard E weight, even if just for the removal of the center stand, the alloy handlebar and the compact muffler.
And I prefer my imagination to the facts any day!!
tee hee.
I just actually think the CB500X looks dumb and I totally am not into water cooled motorcycles. Just seems wrong! But if I were buying a new motorcycle to replace my GS, it would probably be a CB500X. And I'd find a way to get rid of that 40 lb! And the beak!
Quote from: mr72 on April 05, 2021, 10:34:10 AM
Surprised your Bolt has carbs! Isn't that like a 2018 model or something?
No it is FI. The Bolt was made 14 on with what was called a "base" model, and in 15 they made a "cafe" so it became C spec and the original became R spec, all are FI.
My SCR950 was a 1 year only 2017 which is a bunch of crap bolted onto a bolt.
I unbolted it and put C spec cafe bars on it but have an R spec seat cos the high and hard C spec didn't look right to me nor is it very comfortable. SCR foot peg and C spec foot pegs are the same position, R spec is well forward like a cruiser but the freaking air box will kill your knees.
Mine has alloy but spoked rims the only model to have that, and it used to be a $1000+ "accessory" for the steel version for the bolt. Mine has 17 rear while that was 15.
Yamaha bolted 1000's worth of crap onto a bolt and turned a bike they could not keep in stock at $7,999 to one they could not give away @3,999. Mine cost me $4599 cos the dealer wouldn't budge, and I didn't want to drive 800 miles to get it.
Yamaha held a contest between 15 bike builders, and Hagerman won that and they copied a lot of that into the SCR and somehow managed to screw it up so badly ... In fact there were Hagerman conversion kits floating around that people bought for the bolt.
Anyway its a fine bike, but getting performance out if it is impossible. Not very very hard - Impossible. Or atleast not without fabricating a new intake manifold. You can bore it, do heads, do pipe etc etc but the intake effectively will kill all the gains. There is a tight ~120 degree bend in the manifold with the front and rear cyls facing each other on the left side and fed by the manifold which runs from the right side. A harley style Y manifold fitted to the left side would leave the FI and throttle bodies so high and so far outside it will be next to the tank. Stupid design. IMHO just lighten a few things like tossing the tail hoop, exhaust can and a few other parts and ride on. Even tossing the airbox gets you very little, people remap the ECU again very little gain, but it clean up a little in the mid range.
Sorry about the book I wrote, but I am in a dumb meeting and bored as Fcuk.
Cool.
Buddha.
Early in the summer I changed the fork seals and fork oil, and they have been leaking like a mother ever since. In fact, it drips fork oil from the seals while the bike is sitting parked, which makes no sense to me. It even leaked enough oil while parked to foul the brake pads.
Anyone have a clue why the forks would leak while the bike just sits?
This coming weekend I am going to take it apart again and replace the seals again, change the oil again. I need a reason to ride my GS. This leaking fork thing is a big reason not to.
My bike's original set of forks would leak while the bike was parked. It had bent forks and unknown seals (age, installed correctly/incorrectly, brand.)
Then I bought a used set of forks from weedahoe. He assured me they weren't bent but here again, I didn't know the details about the seals. Those forks leaked while my bike was parked. I replaced the seals with aftermarket (cheap ones but installed correctly unlike what the Clymer Manual tells you to do) and within a week it was doing the same thing. Any imperfections on the chrome tubes was minimal at best but I was still concerned that it was a contributing factor.
Those events prompted me to build a completely different set of forks with new tubes and OEM Suzuki seals. Here I am over 3 years later with no more leaks.
Not sure if any of that will help you troubleshoot but I certainly understand your frustration.
You're not the first to suggest bent forks could be the cause, sbw. Thanks for the insight. It still mystifies me since for years they didn't leak, then one started to leak a little bit, and after I changed the seals, they both leak a lot. Logic tells me I did something wrong on the repair. So I'm going to redo it and see what happens.
It may have not leaked cos the fluid was very very low.
The 2 copper bushings in the thing with a oil wicking coating, you need to either replace them or get them recoated. But the GS forks are so poor quality you can end up with leaking forks regardless of what you did.
The fork leg is probably too far under the acceptable size for the oil seal.
Cool.
Buddha.
It's possible the fluid was low. I didn't measure it before draining it.
Also I think I overfilled it when replacing the seals, and rode it some before taking some oil out. I wonder if that didn't knock the seals out of their spot and it's leaking around the outside of the seal, not around the stanction.
Probably will never know the cause, assuming replacing the seals and oil again fixes it.
Quote from: mr72 on September 09, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
It's possible the fluid was low. I didn't measure it before draining it.
Also I think I overfilled it when replacing the seals, and rode it some before taking some oil out. I wonder if that didn't knock the seals out of their spot and it's leaking around the outside of the seal, not around the stanction.
Probably will never know the cause, assuming replacing the seals and oil again fixes it.
Leaking on the outside of the seal ??? OK That's a first. You clean that area on the leg ? You oil the seal before install ? Because if you slammed a dry seal into the fork leg, I believe the outside of the seal is a thin aluminum sleeve - you have aluminum on aluminum dry and something may have scratched up something.
Cool.
Buddha.
I am guessing bottoming on the oil may have pushed the seal out of its channel a little, enough for it to leak. Will know more in 48 hours.
I used grease on the seal before installing. There was no kind of thin aluminum sleeve... the seal is just a normal rubber seal. ??
There are no visible flaws or scratches on the fork tubes. They look perfect.
I'm trying to remember, the outside rim of the seal is metal isn't it.
Cool.
Buddha.
There wasn't any exposed metal on these seals, or on the ones that came out. Rubber on the outside.
So, I replaced the seals and oil over the weekend. I think there were basically two problems with the old seals. #1, I think I may have damaged them with my seal driver tool. And #2, the left side was not fully seated, that's the one that was leaking a ton.
The new seals went in much easier. I made up a new seal driver tool and the right side set in just fine and everything went together beautifully. The left leg, not so much. Took a small sledge hammer to drive the seal in, and it still leaks a tiny bit. Not enough to worry about, so it seems. Just seeping. The right side doesn't leak at all. So I'm going to make up a neoprene boot to put over some foam rubber "sweat band" on the left side to soak up the leaking oil and keep it off of the brake.
Bad news is, my brand new brake pads were fouled. They had like 1 mile on them.
The pads will be OK. Just 1 heat cycle - Take to a parking lot and get em hot. You'd get the oil burnt off.
Cool.
Buddha.
I rode it about five miles with a bunch of hard stops and still they don't work. Had this same problem on my Triumph after the wreck, pads were soaked in fork oil, couldn't get them to recover. I even soaked the Triumph pads in brake cleaner in effort to get the oil to come out.
I think the HH pads might just be more porous and absorb more oil than old school organic or semi-metallic pads. I ordered organic pads to replace them. I may try to clean the HHs with brake cleaner but it's just a sure thing to replace the pads and only $25.
Went out this morning and it is seeping a little bit of oil down the left fork leg when left parked for hours. Not nearly enough to make it to the brake side, but it will need something to mop it up on the regular.
When I went to test ride yesterday, it ran like garbage at low throttle/low revs until it was completely warmed up. Something still is not right with the carbs. Once it was warmed up properly it was fine but that took like 5 miles on the road to get that way, and it was 90 degrees out. Can't imagine riding this in the cold.
Yesterday I went to test ride and try carb tuning. I had made up a little neoprene boot /wiper to keep fork oil off the brake and replaced the pads up front. After a test ride on the new brake pad it was still not what I expected so I bled the brake and wound up replacing most of the fluid, but it still doesn't feel like it should, but at least it works now.
Went on a 30 minute ride and eventually it was warmed up enough so the running problem was mostly just a stumble at low RPM. I left it running and adjusted the pilot mixture. I noticed fuel leaking on the left side which I had previously thought was coming from the carbs before I rebuild them, but now I'm pretty sure it is coming from the petcock, either the part itself or the fuel line. The left carb seems unresponsive to mixture adjustment on the side stand, but I did find the sweet spot on the right, which was way richer than I had it. And my starting point was like 3 turn out! I haven't counted turns yet, but I am guessing it's nearly 4 turns. I plan to count turns and make the left carb match. Test ride confirms it runs nearly right, still a little stumble at low revs but at least it's rideable. I wonder if air is not getting into the fuel line where the petcock is leaking.
One bit of good news, the thing runs like a banshee on main jet. Screams right up to 11k. It crackles an pops a lot on decel, so I am surprised the police didn't stop me hole test riding in the neighborhood.
I replaced the petcock with a manual petcock. Had running issues on the first test ride, because I was dumb and decided to risk putting in a fuel filter at the same time, and it wouldn't flow fuel through the filter so I nearly had to walk the bike home when I test rode it. So I replaced the length of fuel hose with a new one, no fuel filter, then started it up and it was still running like garbage but I figured I'd let it warm up on the side stand for a minute while I grabbed my helmet to go on a test ride. Of course, it walked itself off the side stand and fell over on the street, stripped the gear lever pivot mount, broke one of the Rox-ripoff handlebar risers, and bent the gear lever a lot.
So I now get to do a lot more repairs. I straightened the gear lever enough to put it in gear so I could at least get it back up into the garage, but then I needed to figure out what was wrong with the running because it just won't take off from a start unless you rev it to like 8K before releasing the clutch. It is clearly running on only one cylinder until it gets on the main jet. Pretty sure one of the pilot jets got clogged between last time I rode it and now, which seems impossible but that is what it is.
So I get to take it all apart again and clean the carbs again, even though it hasn't gone even 20 miles since a full carb rebuild.
Right now, I just hate this motorcycle. A lot. If I get it running and working, I might just sell it before it grenades itself again. I have had it with this. Running correctly, I figure I can get $2K for it just like it is. There's a lot of other stuff I'd rather have for that $2K right now.
OK, pending arrival of new handlebar risers today, the bike's fixed.
Just as I had suspected, the left carb's pilot jet was 100% blocked. It occurs to me that that teeny hole in the end of the pilot jets is pretty likely to get clogged, this looks like a pretty horrible design. But anyway, I cleaned the pilot jets on both cars and put it all back together. I don't know if the vacuum petcock was really bad or going bad, but for the time being I am switched to manual. Given the fact I was having to use PRI nearly every time I rode due to sitting, it really is no less convenient to use a manual petcock and there's less to go wrong.
I also fixed the bent shift lever and screwed up pivot mounting. It's all back together and ready to ride once I can put the new bar risers on.
As usual, the moral of this whole story is, I need to ride this bike a lot more often.
Looks like the GS is back to normal working order. I rode it a bunch over the weekend, just for utility and errands, lots of little short trips. Started and stopped and ran great, for the most part.
It did persist in the 5-6k stumbling at art throttle that it's been doing for some time now. I seem to recall it was worse before I put a washer under the needles clips, so maybe another washer will get it bang on? Welp, I'm going to ride it as is for a while even with the stumble before bringing it back in for repair.
The 89-00 pilot clogs a lot less than the 01+ which is smaller hole and lower down into the muck part of the float bowl.
The mid rpm stumble could be the other classic problem on the 89-00 - floats drifting higher. Making it weirdly rich.
But if you suspect it is lean, obviously +1 on the washer. But stumble sounds like a word I'd use for rich over lean. Is it when you open the throttle, or at steady throttle ? Steady is lean, opening and stumble is rich.
Cool.
Buddha.
I went with older carbs on mine too,...
Got sick of messing with the laterz,....
Been going strong since,...
At least it's rolling!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xRTEl3THDRDaKY/source.gif)
It's a steady throttle thing. If I hold the throttle at, say, 20%, and it's also between about 5K and 6K RPM, it feels like the slides are stuck down. Just kind of bogs. If I open the throttle to like 25%, or if it gets out of the 5-6K RPM range, it runs just fine. If you happen to get it in the "stumble" condition of throttle and rpm, then just crank it to WOT, then it kind of hesitates just a fraction of a second as it comes out of this boggy range and lights up like a racehorse with a hornet up its backside. If you do this in first gear, it'll lift the front tire when it comes on.
This condition is like holding a constant 20-30 mph in whatever gear you are in where that's 5500 rpm. You rarely wind up doing that. Usually you just upshift and avoid this issue if you have to go 20-30 mph steadily. That's why I say it happens mostly when you are accelerating but get slowed from traffic, so you don't want to upshift and then have to shift back down to continue. And if you are really accelerating, you will downshift to get above 6K. If you are going over about 40 mph then it takes more throttle to cruise at 5500 rpm so this issue goes away.
The part of the pilot jets that are getting clogged is the little microscopic hole at the top (rounded end), which I assume is around 0.4mm diameter. A 0.010" guitar string was used to unblock it, and a 40 pilot jet should be just under 0.016". I can't imagine how bad it'd be if it were half that.
This might explain why you've been having so many carb issues lately. If I understand correctly, ethanol fuel is more suited to fuel injection.
The kicker starts around 6:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRNfyz1Cgvg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRNfyz1Cgvg)
I didn't watch that, but I only run ethanol free fuel in my carbureted stuff, especially this motorcycle.
I think the reason I have so many issues is because it's old and I rarely ride it. I rode it the other day and the carbs were fine eventually and then the rear brake went nuts and locked itself, smoke coming from the caliper. If it's not one thing, it's another.
Was noseying through the manual the other day and was reading that certain regions are fine on 10% ethanol, surprising considering how much 5% eats fuel lines/seals. But yeah its always something isnt it.
Just a thought, its worth giving your ignition components a quick once over for what little time it takes as it could be a myriad of things, i once had and ht lead sitting loose on the coil giving me what sounds like similar symptoms but sometimes it was great and others it would consistently bog and burst into life. Didnt feel like an ignition issue.
The tags, and inspection, ran out in March. This bike is 30 freaking years old. Why do I still have to get an inspection? I could get "Classic" plates for it and only have to renew the registration like every two years and not have to do inspections at all, but they require you to not ride it except in parades or to shows, etc.
Anyway, point is, I had to drag the old girl out to get it inspected. Last year when I had to do this, it wouldn't run and I had to pull the carbs and clean the pilot jets, then it fell over on the side stand and broke a bunch of stuff, and I didn't ride it much, until I did and the rear brake went bonkers overheating the fluid and seized while riding, etc. etc.
Well, this time I was too busy and had too much going on to get out and get it inspected in time to renew the tags before they expired. It was last Thursday before I had a chance to address it. I figured I was in for the whole rigamarole: no start, pull carbs & clean, fiddle with it, eventually make it run well enough to get to the inspection shop, get it inspected and then park it for another year.
Nope!
I even hooked up the battery tender thinking the battery was probably dead, but it was all green lights. I put the choke on, turned on my manual petcock, and gave it a shot. It fired right up. Ran kind of bad for a minute, and clearly the choke is not working right, but once the carbs got all full on gas it sorted out and ran like it did last time I rode it, which is to say, still has that 5-6K stumble that keeps you on your toes a little bit, still is pretty high strung with the 14t front sprocket, still weeping fork seals, but otherwise great.
First place I went to to get it inspected, closest to home, had some dude in a truck that the oil change guy wanted to have a really long and deep conversation with through his side window while I sat there for like literally 10 minutes idling in the 95F heat waiting to ask if they could do an inspection. When he finally got to me, he told me the inspection guy was out. Welp, I guess the bike was fully warmed up by then.
So I took off for the place I usually go, which is the other direction from my house, and ended up using like 5+ miles of suburban highways (that is, mix of stop/start and 65+mph). I thought for sure the bike would decide to leave me stranded in that distance. Nope! It rocked it all the way. I had to wait 45 minutes for the inspection, which it passed because they didn't even look at a single thing including mileage, just left it parked in the parking lot and typed in data from the insurance card. Then it rocked it running home and made me want to take the long way, but I had to get back to work and it was really hot.
I am finally planning a day-long ride I've been wanting to do for about three years now, main reason I did the ADV-type conversion to my GS500, which is to see the Regency Bridge, "the last suspension bridge in Texas that is still open to traffic". There is between 2 and 10 miles of gravel county roads leading to this bridge, but it's got 120+ miles of country highways with 75mph speed limits between my house and the bridge. Various things kept me from going during either the spring or fall over the past few years, not the least of which is that the bridge was damaged and closed for repair for like a year. But this year my bike runs, my dad has a bike capable of making the trip, and my wife is out of town on a weekend when we can go. Sure, it's likely to be 95F by the time we get home, but we're heading out next Saturday with a small group ride to do this most-of-the-day trip. Leaving earlyish in the morning with hopes of it not being 95F the whole time.
With any luck the GS will make the trip with limited drama. I do think I'll dump some more Seafoam in the tank before heading out. And finding ethanol-free fuel to refuel in San Saba or Goldthwaite might be tricky, but you know, this is ranch country, maybe there are enough ranchers who have a whole barn full of 50 year old carburetor vehicles to keep demand high for ethanol free fuel out there. In any case, I am sure I can run one tank of E10 coming back. It'll be empty when I get home.
Just like every time once or twice a year I ride this bike, I predict this might be the last ride of old Renegade. But I always wind up changing my mind and keeping it.
I went to the newer carbs for a while, then back to the older model carbs trying to diagnose a problem that got worse and worse since I got the bike running again ~2018. Finally last year - I found out the petcock had a leak at the vacuum diaphragm and was putting fuel into the left cyl. Problem wasn't the carbs at all.
But I know you're running the on/off style one in this, or is that a different person I'm assigning to you.
Cool.
Buddha.
Yeah, I had a myriad other issues and switched to a manual petcock. I think mine was leaking fuel into the vacuum port.
The choke looks to be working, mechanically anyway. You pull the lever, it opens the valve. I haven't torn it down to see what's actually wrong with it. It's doing something, since it will actually start while it's cold. But it doesn't rev to 5K rpm and do the normal stuff.
Since the needle-washer thing can be done with the carbs on the bike, I think I'm going to try adding a washer this week before taking the bike on the long trip this weekend. I think I can even do this job without removing the tank in its entirety.
Went out today and put another washer under the needle e-clip. It is now up to 3. These are #4 brass washers. I think 3 washers is probably just over one e-clip position if you had multi-position needles.
Also checked the mechanical operation of the choke, which seems to be working as expected. But it's not working to start the bike. Maybe the problem is using the manual petcock, the float bowls are not full enough on cold start.
have oddball mods, so this is basically useless information. Things that affect jetting and needle position: chopped down Yoshimura muffler, header wrap, Uni drop-in air filter. I am running 40/125 jets and now three washers.
Test ride today confirmed that the third washer indeed fixed it. Well, let's say it moved the problem almost completely out of the way. Now there is the occasional hesitation when going from engine-braking deceleration to acceleration. But it's not all the time, and it is pretty easy to live with. Still, I think a fourth washer might eliminate that too. So next time I have the tank (mostly) off, I may add another washer.
Side note: it is surprisingly tricky to put the needle back into the slide with three washers.
There are still a litany of issues with this bike. The choke doesn't really work much. It doesn't do the fast-warmup thing when on choke. I think something inside the carb is clogged. Odd that it seems to affect both carbs. But I can confirm the plunger is functioning correctly. The new fork seals weep, one badly enough that I had to install a sort of sponge on it to keep it from leaking onto the brake caliper while parked. But no matter. It runs great, the manual petcock fixed 90% of what was wrong with it, it didn't go south over the winter, and it's ready to ride.
We did the ride yesterday.
251 miles round trip, mostly back roads, some in the midst of the once-a-century CenTX county road maintenance schedule [means they're rough... see... it's a joke...].
The old GS did great. I didn't find ethanol-free fuel to refill, so I ran 1.5 tanks full of E10 and the bike ran and worked fine.
Problems with the GS? Well... whatever hint of hesitation or stumbling that was left over after putting the final washer in has gone completely. It just runs almost 100% how you want it to. It still has some kind of issue I can't really work out, below about 6K rpm when you crank it open under load it just feels like it's not doing everything it could be. There's just some fine tuning left in the carbs, and I probably don't have patience for it. Maybe another washer would fix it.
I also noticed a bit of oil weeping somewhere, enough that after this 6 hours of riding when I parked it one dime sized drop of oil dripped onto the garage floor and I could see some oil on the left side of the engine. I think it's probably the cam cover gasket. And one of the carbs is leaking fuel somewhere, just a little, but when you run it a long time you do notice the starter cover is wet.
And riding on the rough roads and especially the 5ish miles of washboard gravel I did notice I need a bit more damping of the rear shock. I've never adjusted that Kat600 shock since I put it in, so I guess another click or two is warranted.
But hey, she did 250+ miles in a row without any issues at all. No reason I wouldn't take it for another all day ride if the need came up.
The soft power delivery when opening the throttle is likely to be rich. But 6k rpm isn't actually useful to diagnose it. At what throttle position ? 6K is 1/4 throttle in 1st and likely 1/2 throttle in 5th.
Also leaking out the carb ? Could your fuel level be too high ?
Cool.
Buddha.
Certainly doesn't seem rich, since the problems have gotten better with washers under the needle.
It's like 5th or 6th gear and probably over 50% throttle at 4k or 5k when it does this. Accelerating at like 50 mph without downshifting. I think it basically feels like it starts to accelerate and then the power drops a little. I think that's why it feels like there should be more. Initial power is good, but in like half a second it backs off.
That sounds like your slide may be rising too fast. But why you running 50mph in 5th and 6th.
Cool.
Buddha.
14t sprocket.
50mph in 6th gear is turning about 4500 rpm.
I did exactly what I wasn't supposed to do: I let the bike sit with mostly untreated E10 gas in it for three months without starting it.
Then, Saturday morning, on a day we had a miraculous forecast of a high of a degree below 100F, my dad texted me to go on a ride exploring some of the myriad CenTX county roads. I hadn't ridden any motorcycle since Father's Day, so the battery was dead on both, and I decided I might as well see if the GS would work. I mean, it needed to run that old gas out. So I topped up the tank with another 2 gal of treated, ethanol-free gas, and tried to fire it up. At first, the starter barely turned and I was convinced it wasn't going to run. But then I tried again, and even with very slow starter, it fired up. I held the throttle open a little to let it "warm up" without stalling since the choke is still not really working right and I figured it didn't have enough battery for a third go-round. Then after about 30 seconds on the side stand, I took off and the bike ran like a top for the entire ~80 mile or so ride.
Really glad I took the GS instead of the Triumph. Here in Central Texas we have a number of types of roads that are good for motorcycles. We have US Highways, which are 2-4 lane roads with a speed limit as high as 70 in some places, that interconnect the larger of Texas towns and small cities that are not served by an interstate highway. These are the minimum standard motorcycle roads. They are often necessary, but frequently run straight through the middle of small and mid-size cities, and are typically not very curvy and carry a lot of light-truck traffic, you know Texas ranchers in quad-cab dually type trucks, often with horse or equipment trailers, making full use of the 70mph speed limit. Then we have the state "Ranch Road" and "Farm Road" type roads, which are typically well maintained 2-4 lane rural highways with speed limits up to 60 mph. These are the gold standard motorcycle roads around here, frequently winding through the hill country and across the big-sky ranches, running you right into the heart of smaller towns and taking you to the main places in TX where you want to go on a motorcycle.
And then we have the thousands of county roads, which have a state mandated maximum 45mph speed limit, and can be up to 4 lane decently-maintained roads when they constitute a main thoroughfare within a small town. Most often are up to 2 lanes and are of course maintained by the counties, which vary from one to the next. These county roads can be anything from a graded gravel road, often times that runs miles and miles even with the occasional gate, river crossing, and numerous cattle grates, to more typical 1.x lane wide extremely aged asphalt with frequent ripples, patches, open potholes, large patches of gravel, etc. These roads are the ones you take when you want to discover something new. And these were the roads my dad wanted to see on Saturday. He rode his Bonneville, which is identical to mine, except for stock suspension/seat/handlebars, a different aftermarket exhaust, and 80/20 tires not unlike my GS's Shinkos. These country roads are 99% of the reason I made the GS into the Renegade it is. And it loves these roads. It soaks up the half century old asphalt gorgeously. It has the light weight and great maneuverability to make its way around obstacles easily. It is happy making a low water crossing on an actual limestone river bed, and is geared low enough to climb like a goat out of just about anything. And with the 180-degree twin, it has that gap between pulses not unlike a single, which allows the tire to hook up kind of like a thumper but with real top end power so those US highway stretches we have to take to get to the bumpy and fun stuff is easy. Plus, when I am staring down a gravel path into a river crossing, I don't hesitate like I would on a pretty, shiny Triumph, because if the GS goes down, well it's used to it, and it is not expensive to fix. Plus it is 100 lb lighter than my Triumph if I have to pick it back up.
Anyway, it was a good ride, and the GS proved again that it's the right bike for it. Recently the "right" Ducati Scrambler came up on FB marketplace, and I seriously considered buying it, which would have necessitated selling the GS. I have no doubt the Duc would be just as good as the GS at everything the GS is good at, and a lot better at a lot of things. But it wouldn't be nearly as good at laying down without a $2000 bill at the end, and I'd have to sell the GS to make room for it in the garage. I'm glad I didn't submit to temptation. As long as it will run when I need it to, this old GS is kind of a goldilocks bike for TX county roads.
You are not allowed to sell the GS. It is a rule. Stop considering it.
No kidding.
Today I needed to go get the Triumph inspected, and I needed a haircut, so I decided to combine errands. I made it about 2 miles from my house through neighborhood roads when the clutch cable broke as I came to a stop light. Of course, I stalled the bike, with no way to get it rolling again in gear, so I Fred-Flintstone'd it over to a place where I could park it, then my wife and I went back to get it later.
We rode my Vespa 2-up over to where the Triumph was stuck, and tied a rope to tow it home. mrs72 did an awesome job as the tug-scooter driver. Not an easy job, I bet.
So now the GS is in First Place :). Until I can get a cable here from Thailand by way of England by way of California.
I'm with Blue :nono:
See gs back to winning again!
Yesterday I picked up a free set of GS500 wheels, these are powdercoated silver unlike my gray epoxy paint over 90s white wheels. They have a good front rotor but the rear brake rotor and sprocket carrier are missing. Bearings and cush drive are all there.
If I get bored and have spare time I'll probably swap the tires over to the "new" wheels, and might even consider putting some way more knobby tires on the spare wheel set. Maybe Shinko 244s or 700s. I think a 4.60-17 would fit up front with a 5.10-17 in the rear. Might not clear the front fender...
Because what I need more for a bike I almost never ride is a whole spare set of wheels with tires I am even less likely to ever need. Obv.
Meanwhile, glorious TX riding season is here!! Maybe I'll get lucky and find some spare time tucked away in the garage somewhere and get to go ride.
A Kenda Big Block 130/80 17 knobby tire fits in the front fork with a few mm to spare. Just so you know - not suggesting you go for Kenda.
I would prefer to go with a 110 on the front if at all possible. 120 max. A 130 is just too big for a 3" rim.
But yeah, I will check out the Kenda. I like Kenda tires on mountain bikes, even thinking about them for my Jeep next time around.
I agree, 110 on the front would be a lot better option for you. But to be a street tracker, the front tire on my bike had to be the same size as the rear. I'm happy with my build, even if cornering has been affected negatively. It now steers like a HD. :hithead: :icon_lol:
Turns out the wheels I got for free are Katana wheels. Rear is a 4.5", front is 3" like the GS stock wheel.
I'm def. going to swap my tires over to the replacement wheels and then probably put more dirt focused tires on the others eventually. A 4.0" front knobby and a 4.60" rear knobby would work great, I think. Just need an extra rear rotor to make the swappable wheels work.
Kat 4.5's are a direct drop in for the GS IIRC. Ken (Werase643) did a swap for Diaz (Average) a few eons ago. Just a sprocket spacer and maybe some mod on the brake side ?? May have to use the kat's hanging caliper, which means you need a ear on the under side of the swingarm ? Not sure there.
I have done many many Bandit 400 swaps. They're 4" and let you run the largest tire you can run anyway. My current bike has a hanging caliper, I have a ear welded on the underside of the swingarm, but yet to fabricate the stay rod and put a brake line on and of course the m/c etc etc. Essentially I have no rear brake on it.
Cool.
Buddha.
I have yet to put a micrometer on it and see how it lines up. Hard to find time for projects right now if they are not absolutely necessary. Even just for the spare rotor, it was worth the hour round trip drive to pick up these free wheels!