I'm building a heated motorcycle vest using high temp 30 AWG, 600V rated wire. The power source is my battery, the 12V 14.5 amp MotoBatt AGM, which has two set of leads. One set is connected to a wiring harness (with 20 amp-fuse) that drives a nautilus horn (18 amps@12volts ) and my sweet GS500. I have 100' of the wire which I plan to cut into two 40' lengths of wire, and then run them parallel through a vest, with plans of connecting it to the second set of battery leads. The Wikipedia wire gauge table reflects a total resistance of ~2 Ohms (draw 6-7A) for this setup, providing ~72-100W of heating power. The question is, does this setup provide 7A of headroom?
Someone might chime in with the exact numbers but from my experience - not great.
I ran a twin headlight on my GS and that was pretty marginal when it came to putting charge back into the battery. I suffered a few flat batteries and got quite good at roll-starting. And that was only the addition of 60W - you're looking at 85.
Not what I wanted to hear, but I appreciate you saving me from problems. Know of a workaround?
I agree with philward. That's >50% more current than the headlight draws, and the headlight is far and away the largest current draw on the bike. You might have better luck if you replaced the headlight with an LED headlight that draws only 2A or so (high beam) which would give back ~3A of headroom compared with the halogen OEM light but that only gets you less than half of what you want.
IMHO to do it right will require you to run a battery tender most of the time and I would carry a Li-Ion jump pack just in case. Or for that matter, power the vest from it's own power source, like a couple of ~4AH Li-Ion battery packs like I use for mountain bike lights.
The specs say the two rear light bulbs are 5w each and the headlight is 55w. So if I swap those bulbs out with LED (+5w) and disconnect the headlight altogether (I never ride at night), I get an 60w going to my 85w vest. Will it still work if I'm 25w shy? If I only switch the vest on while cruising?
Replacing the tail light with LEDs is a good idea and certainly will help but you will need an LED light controller to handle the brake/tail and then add a license plate light/LED of some kind. On my bike, there's a stick on LED light strip for the license plate light. That will give you some additional margin to charge your battery while running your vest.
If you're only riding during the day then you can always also disconnect the gauge lights and maybe get an amp of extra capacity.
I don't know where you are located but running a motorcycle without the headlight on during the day is most likely illegal, and IMHO unsafe as well. I'd work hard to find a different solution.
In the day time you could set the headlights on very low current, or switch them off. Also you're not honking that 18 amp horn all the time. Just remember to turn off all the electrics including the vest 5-10 mins before you stop. That will pump the battery up just fine for that next start session, unless your carbs wont let it fire up first try. Besides, the bike makes more than enough via the alternator, much of it is dumped as heat in the R/R. You just need to get all that wasted heat into your vest - needs to be vested heat. LOL.
Cool.
Buddha.
voila!
I agree with mr72 that LED's in the brake light is a good idea!
I bought some bulbs from superbrightleds.com this summer and I love them. Didn't need a controller of any kind though... or a different light for the license plate... the bulbs I bought are white and I installed 'em inside a GSF style red lens. They shine down white onto the plate and the brake light is bright eye-catching red.
This thread is really interesting, I hope you update your progress and show us some pics of what ya make!!
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 14, 2016, 10:47:52 AM
I agree with mr72 that LED's in the brake light is a good idea!
I bought some bulbs from superbrightleds.com this summer and I love them. Didn't need a controller of any kind though...
Yeah it depends on what bulbs you get. In my case, the PO did it and then I made an additional mod but it uses a trailer-type LED light controller and the bulbs are just essentially "single filament" type bulbs (there's no filament...).
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 14, 2016, 10:47:52 AM
superbrightleds.com
I just read this thread and it looks like they're not strong enough unless you wire up a controller.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=35515.0
If this is the case, I think I'll keep it simple and go with Buddha. All I need to do is wire the vest in and then install an on/off switch to the headlight. Since the vest will only be used >60mph, and drivers don't look in rear view mirrors, I can turn the headlight off and the vest on when I get on the highway. Safe for daytime use anyway.
Quote from: Darkstar on December 14, 2016, 02:29:54 PM
I can turn the headlight off and the vest on when I get on the highway. Safe for daytime use anyway.
Whatever you say!
Most reports I have read say "visibility" is the main cause of most motorcycle accidents... that is, the other driver fails to see the motorcycle. Less headlight sounds like a certified bad idea in that case. In my MSF class they told us we should run the high beam during the day for this very reason.
It's your life and your risk tolerance, maybe your ticket or insurance claims, so I'm sure you will do whatever you want. Personally I think there are way better ways to solve this than to run without your headlight.
Thanks for your concern, but I'm OK with slightly more risk. I generally ride in the long gaps between cars when I'm on the highway. I wouldn't be riding motorcycles at all if I was trying to avoid risk altogether. Aaaand if I wire the the vest to equal the 59w headlamp, I can reroute the high/low beam switch as a controller, where [high beam] = high beam on, and [low beam] = headlight off/vest on.
The flat battery was only a very occasional thing, it must be said (but still an outcome you need to be aware can easily result with even moderate additions to the GS electrical load). And in winter time I would do exactly as Buddha suggested which is turn off my heated grips for a good 10 min or so before arriving to get more charge in.
With all the filament lamps throughout the bike you can certainly claw back a whole host of watts. But after listing it all out on a spreadsheet (which I no longer have) I ended up not bothering to take this route, mainly because LED alternatives weren't as easily available as they certainly are now. And the bike happily served its purpose with just a little careful management for a couple of years in this double-headlight-plus-grips configuration before I eventually sold it.
(the grips I think were 4A but I never ran them on full, ever. I estimate that they were probably accounting for, 15-30W. But remember they only got occasional and seasonal use unlike the second headlight which was on from go to whoa).
Dunno if this will help anybody but I went back and found the bulbs I bought for the tail light:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/tail-brake-turn/1157-led-bulb-dual-function-24-led-forward-firing-cluster-bay15d-retrofit-car/157/694/
They only have two left atm but I figured I would share anyway. I am really happy with them and maybe someone else would like them too.
Thanks, these will free up some watts. My initial calculations were wrong because I used 12.8v battery instead of our 12v. Here they are corrected if you're interested, using our 12v battery and the hook up wire I bought (rated for 0.105 ohms/ft.). Option A is for one 30' strand of wire running through the vest. Option B is for two 50' strands running parallel, and better to use that one for a full jacket as opposed to a vest. 54.7>52 assigned to the headlight, so if I run 4 feet of 18 gauge SAE extension, it brings it down to 2.99 ohm = 48watts = 4.0amps.
(A) 30' x 0.105 (2)= 3.00 ohm = 48.00 watts/4.00 amps
(B) (2) parallel 50' x 0.105 = 2.63 ohm = 54.70 watts/4.56 amps
When I was a winter rider, I had more difficulty keeping hands warm.
Certainly, but I recently read an article suggesting that I should think of my core first. Saying that one reason hands and feet get cold is because the blood has moved towards the core when its cold, to prevent damage to the organs. So if you keep the core extra warm the hands and feet will follow. I tried bundling up my core on my last ride and it helped a lot, but I know there are limits.
drivers don't look in rear view mirrors, I can turn the headlight off and the vest on when I get on the highway. [/quote]
The driver right in front of me wouldn't be my biggest concern, unless they stomp on the brakes suddenly.
It's the cars in opposing traffic, or the ones on intersecting streets, that I worry about. Those are the ones who hopefully see your headlights, or the lack thereof.
Quote from: Darkstar on December 15, 2016, 05:28:47 PM
Thanks, these will free up some watts. My initial calculations were wrong because I used 12.8v battery instead of our 12v.
Your battery is probably over 12v when the bike is not running and the system will float at about 14v or so when the engine is running above idle.
That makes option a 62 watts and 4.4a and option b is 74.7w at 5.3a.
One of these (https://www.amazon.com/Veeki-Capacity-Protected-Rechargeable-headlamp/dp/B00GOO4TK8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1481979107&sr=8-2&keywords=lithium+ion+battery+bicycle) in your pocket would run your vest for an hour and not require you to sacrifice your headlight or overload the GS charging system or melt plugs.
Quote from: Endopotential on December 16, 2016, 11:45:44 AM
drivers don't look in rear view mirrors, I can turn the headlight off and the vest on when I get on the highway.
It's the cars in opposing traffic, or the ones on intersecting streets
[/quote]
I'm with you on this. This is why I decided to only use this on highway rides, it's where the windchill really increases too, so there's no reason to use it on the local roads
These are my latest calculations, are they wrong?
(1) 30' of 0.105 plus (1) 4' of SAE 18 gauge = 3.41 ohm
@12v = 42watts/3.5amps
@14v = 57watts/4.1amps
I'm curious, why would higher wattage on my battery melt my plugs?
Your battery pack (8.4v, 8800mAH) looks like a great solution, but may only run for 20 minutes with this load:
(1) 30 feet of 0.105 plus 4 feet of SAE 18 gauge = 3.41 ohm, @8.4v = 20watts/2.4amps, 20 watts = 20000 mA
Battery Life = Battery Capacity in Milli amps per hour / Load Current in Mill amps * 0.70
8800+20000x0.7=0.31 hours, ~20 minutes
Quote from: Darkstar on December 17, 2016, 08:13:42 AM
These are my latest calculations, are they wrong?
(1) 30' of 0.105 plus (1) 4' of SAE 18 gauge = 3.41 ohm
@12v = 42watts/3.5amps
@14v = 57watts/4.1amps
Those calculations are fine.
Quote
I'm curious, why would higher wattage on my battery melt my plugs?
Mine melted with stock electricals. I don't think there is likely much headroom in the stator plug. Adding more load just adds heat.
Quote
Your battery pack (8.4v, 8800mAH) looks like a great solution, but may only run for 20 minutes with this load:
(1) 30 feet of 0.105 plus 4 feet of SAE 18 gauge = 3.41 ohm, @8.4v = 20watts/2.4amps,
Close enough.
Quote
20 watts = 20000 mA
I think we found the problem. And I don't understand the rest of your math. But a 4.4Ah battery will run nearly two hours with a 2.4A load.
Two hours is perfect for winter rides. Thanks for checking my math, I'll order it from Amazon and start testing.
Your spark plugs melted with stock setup, after adding what?
Quote from: Darkstar on December 17, 2016, 03:31:25 PM
Your spark plugs melted with stock setup, after adding what?
I never said
spark plugs.
The plug between the stator and regulator/rectifier is known to melt on many motorcycles and it did on mine as well. That wiring interface is only marginally capable of handling the current in the stock charging system.
I finished building today and took it for a test ride, and it's better than I hoped. I rode for an hour in with a windchill temp of 21F, and it was very warm when I turned it on. Resting state of my battery before and after was 12.8v, 13v after, although it will probably drop a bit by tomorrow. So the bike can keep the battery charged while this is running, as long as the headlight it off. OK by me for daytime highway use. Oh and anything under 30mph is too warm. I wired an on/off switch just for that reason. Thanks for the help guys, I wouldn't be able to ride through the winter without this!
Ahhhh this is an awesome update but I need some pics! Super glad it worked out for you Darkstar :star:
here's a shot from the front. the pattern on the back is similar. i stitched first and then ran the wire through. it's important that the shirt fits snug so the heat conducts to skin. i ran it through the collar so my neck is warm. i wore a thin layer on top and a thin layer beneath, sandwiching the wires in the middle.
http://m.imgur.com/nQJsQkh
Oh that is neat neat neat!!! Reminds me of Spiderman :cool: So happy for you that it worked out!!!
Are you actually using these? While I appreciate your advice, these bulbs are nowhere near bright enough. I plugged them in and tested them from 20 feet back during daylight, even straight on you can barely tell when you brake.
I'm guessing you mean me...
...if you do, yes I am using the bulbs I linked you to. When I found that link I logged into my account on that site and went into my purchase history so there was no mistake on which ones I've had in my bike since the summertime.
They are really really bright for me, I am sad they aren't working for you. :sad: I even tried to take a picture or two for ya back when we were talking about them, but the pictures all turned out where the red of the lens looked washed out because of how bright they are... I couldn't get a picture to show what it looks like to the naked eyeball. These weren't night time/in the total dark pictures either.
Just to be clear, I have a GSF style red tail light lens and the white LED bulbs in the link. Is this what you got too?
yep, same bike and same setup, thats odds
Ok so ever since this thread, I've been looking more into my tail/brake setup. Kept thinking of all the places I rode this summer, nobody ever beeped or threw me the finger lol... times where my parents would be following me after church to breakfast and they never mentioned anything (and I know my mom would haha she wants my turn signals to be as big as stop signs)... but I still wanted to make sure I was being seen.
I took a few more pictures in my garage in the daytime and they looked bright. At night, yep, looked great. Then we finally had a really sunny day and I put the bike outside... aimed the tail so the sun was shining pretty much straight on it. That's when I was like oh jeeeeez you can barely see that sh*t!!!
Darkstar I'm so thankful you went ahead and bought those last 2 bulbs and posted your feels about them... because it caused me to look into this and change what I have. I bought two different ones, installed them and took comparison pictures last night. Will make a thread later showing what I have now and how it compares to the stock bulbs (cuz at this point, that's all that matters now.) I have to admit, I'm really disturbed at how I missed this.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on January 20, 2017, 12:44:49 PM
I'm really disturbed at how I missed this.
Yep, they look bright at night. The thing is, I have an eyesight condition that makes evening rides dangerous, so I rarely do it. This is the only reason I tested those bulbs during the day! Hope your replacements work out better for you.