After pulling the brass plugs, I checked the screw settings. Left side is 3/4 out, right is zeroed out, not screwed out at all. Anyone know why? I ask because I'm re-jetting and plan to set 3 turns out on both, does that mean I should set to 3/ 3/4 for left and 3 for right?
Set both at 2.5 turns out with your jet upgrade. 3 turns is actually at the top end of the fuel mixture screw, and 3.5 is the MAX you should go, if you're touching 3.5 you should bump your jets up another point or so.
Not sure about the setting from the factory, but when we say "2 turns out" it's 2 turns from snug.
So you'd "reset" the screws all the way in, then start counting.
Quote from: J_Walker on February 05, 2017, 01:08:21 PM
Set both at 2.5 turns
Thanks Walker. Mind looking at my needle setup?
http://imgur.com/a/3dWQE
From the top, this is:
- Thin washer (stock)
- C clip (stock)
- O ring (added)
- White plastic spacer (stock)
- Thick washer (stock)
Are you sure you didn't bump the mixture screw with the drill bit when you remove the plug, that runs them into zero with a quickness....ask me how I know :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on February 05, 2017, 04:46:44 PM
Are you sure you didn't bump the mixture screw
AHA! Not the drill bit, but with the drywall screw. Thanks!
Quote from: Darkstar on February 05, 2017, 02:42:25 PM
Quote from: J_Walker on February 05, 2017, 01:08:21 PM
Set both at 2.5 turns
Thanks Walker. Mind looking at my needle setup?
http://imgur.com/a/3dWQE
From the top, this is:
- Thin washer (stock)
- C clip (stock)
- O ring (added)
- White plastic spacer (stock)
- Thick washer (stock)
WHOOA I don't think that needle setup is gonna even allow you to start the bike.. stick with the stock setup, and add the washer if needed. and if still needed, remove washer, and add the oring. if still needed. add both. but I would see how it ran first before getting too wild with the needle adjustments.
take a look/read here. to get a quick and dirty understanding of how each bit works together.
edit; would help If I posted the link. http://www.iwt.com.au/mikunicarb.htm
Quote from: J_Walker on February 06, 2017, 11:37:33 AM
take a look/read here. to get a quick and dirty understanding of how each bit works together.
edit; would help If I posted the link. http://www.iwt.com.au/mikunicarb.htm
This is a great resource. I'm saving this one...
Quote from: Darkstar on February 05, 2017, 07:22:26 PM
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on February 05, 2017, 04:46:44 PM
Are you sure you didn't bump the mixture screw
AHA! Not the drill bit, but with the drywall screw. Thanks!
AI-I-I-I-I-I...
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on February 07, 2017, 08:14:32 PM
AI-I-I-I-I-I...
Cool.
Buddha.
I just tore it apart to have a look. Here's the deal:
- All hoses and vacuum tubes are routed properly and without pinching.
- I pulled the plugs and they're the same as before: if I pull them after idle, they look lean, ie white ground strap.
- Large idle screw was set to 8 turns. I left it there.
- One air mixture screw was somehow at 3.5 and other at 2.0. Both are now set to 1.0 for starting.
- One float bowl was at 10mm, the other at 13mm. Both are now set to 13.
- New air filter installed
I put it back together for a test and it's worse. It starts up the same way: with no enricher/choke, and as before, slight touch of the choke kills it. Once started, it chugs slowly up to speed and i have to give it a bit of throttle to warm it up. Once warm, I now have a big loss of power, it sounds heavy and bogged down. It didn't do this when I first put the larger jets and needle o-ring in, it ran great then but just stalled when I hit the choke. Now full throttle doesn't wind it up at all. Blipping throttle to 1/3 hangs the idle some, and this wasn't happening when I first put the new jets in either. Setting air screw mixtures to 2.0 helps, but not by much. Setting them to zero or 3 doesn't either.
So the changes that I made today were: gave it a bit more air by replacing air filter and a but less fuel by lowering one of the floats. If it was rich before, it should be running even better now. But this is not the case because it stalls when i use the enricher to start, so this idle circuit is still running rich. But the idle hangs and the plug straps are still white, suggesting it's lean. I'm confused. Im wondering if I set the throttle cables too tight. Any advice would be appreciated.
If your throttle cables are too tight you'll know immediately by turning the bars to full lock right.
Have you checked for vacuum leaks?
What jetting are you running?
I'd also heed J_Walker's advice and not mess with the slide needle. Revert that back to factory, at least until you have a reliable engine.
That's, like, troubleshooting 101.
Quote from: J_Walker on February 06, 2017, 11:37:33 AM
I don't think that needle setup is gonna even allow you to start the bike...http://www.iwt.com.au/mikunicarb.htm
Interesting, I thought this was a common rejet configuration. Thanks for the tuning site, I'll dig into and see what I can learn.
Quote from: Darkstar on February 08, 2017, 01:24:26 PM
But this is not the case because it stalls when i use the enricher to start, so this idle circuit is still running rich. But the idle hangs and the plug straps are still white, suggesting it's lean. I'm confused. Im wondering if I set the throttle cables too tight. Any advice would be appreciated.
It could be running rich at idle due to float height or float needles sticking open, and running lean on main jet due to the slide/needle not rising, which would cause the hanging idle and white plugs.
Vacuum leak, poor seal or torn diaphragm on the top of the carb, etc. could cause the slide/needle to not rise.
Also if the pilot needle (the pilot mixture adjustment "screw") o-rings are bad (or missing!) then it will run horrifically rich right at idle and only at idle and you cannot adjust it to not run super rich because fuel leaks past the o-rings rendering the needle useless.
Smartest thing I did when working on my carbs was to replace ALL of the o-rings and remove EVERY potential vacuum leak.
Quote from: Darkstar on February 08, 2017, 02:04:10 PM
Interesting, I thought this was a common rejet configuration. Thanks for the tuning site, I'll dig into and see what I can learn.
More common is to just rejet and leave the needles/washers/etc. alone.
Slightly OT but I hate how many things in a carb can be referred to as "needles". It can get very confusing without context.
Float needles, slide needles, idle adjustment needles, give it a rest already!
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 02:14:56 PM
just rejet and leave the needles alone.
Good to hear because it's easy to test. Can you adjust needles from the top without removing the carbs?
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 02:13:49 PM
float height
checked, in spec
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 02:13:49 PM
float needles sticking open
are you referring to the needle valve connected to the float? if so, I checked when reassembling, and they work as intended
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 02:13:49 PMslide/needle not rising
checked when reassembling, works as intended
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 02:13:49 PMpoor seal or torn diaphragm on the top of the carb
checked when reassembling, works as intended
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 02:13:49 PMpilot needle o-rings are bad or missing
checked when reassembling, o-rings are they were not bad last week, it was running lean
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 02:13:49 PMvacuum leak
This was the only item left your list, so I just tested it. After warm-up, I killed the engine, and decided to check the hose connected to the vacuum damper/chamber. As soon as I pulled it, there was an audible whooshing sound, like it has major back pressure. Is this right? I thought this damper controls only slight vacuum issues. Could it mean that my vacuum lines are connected wrong?
i don't know about whooshing sound.
There are four vacuum ports. One on each plastic carb top which should have a cap on it, these are for balancing the carbs.
Then there's a vacuum port facing the side. On the left carb, that port should be connected to the petcock via a 5mm vacuum hose. On the right carb, that port should be blocked internally but I put a cap on mine anyway.
But there are a bunch of other places for a vacuum leak. Big one is the big o-rings between the intake boots and the cylinder. Then the intake boots themselves can be cracked or deformed, or not making a good seal with the carb. Those are the major vacuum leaks if all o-rings inside the carb are in good shape.
I want to reiterate about the mixture adjustment needle/screw o-ring, because that thing is very hard to remove and inspect, and almost impossible to remove without damaging it. And on both of my carb sets they were hard and flat and leaked. One of them even leaked fuel right out of the adjustment screw head on the bottom of the carb. Anyway, my point here is that it's easily overlooked and also easily screwed up on reassembly so I just want to make sure I am communicating the potential problem correctly. If you already checked it, then move along. But most folks forget.
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 03:59:26 PM
There are four vacuum ports
Thanks, I'll verify the routing of these against the SM.
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 03:59:26 PM
o-rings between the intake boots and the cylinder
They were good coming out, but maybe I tore one putting the airbox back in, it's such a tight fit. will check
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 03:59:26 PMneedle/screw o-ring
When I removed the screws I looked inside and verified that the o-rings were there, but did not remove them. How the hell do you get them out? Im not convinced that this is the main problem though because, aside from running lean, the bike ran great before I increased jet sizes. I suppose the real test would be to go back to stock setup and test again...ugh
Quote from: Darkstar on February 08, 2017, 04:07:30 PM
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 03:59:26 PM
o-rings between the intake boots and the cylinder
They were good coming out, but maybe I tore one putting the airbox back in, it's such a tight fit. will check
How would you tear it? They fit in a groove on the intake boot (hard plastic part) that bolts to the cylinder. That thing is firmly planted by the time you begin putting the carbs on.
Other side of them, the rubber hose side, slips over the carbs and is reasonably hard to fit in some cases and you might score or crack them if they are old. They are much easier to manhandle when they are new boots since they are far more supple and fit over the carb throats much easier.
I'd say if anything you might have either cracked one of these, broken the rubber part from the plastic part (happened to me!) or managed to get the carb to come loose from the boot and make a leak when putting the &#@#!@#$! airbox on (also happened to me, many times).
The o-rings are like 1.25" diameter and thick... when they are "bad" they are flat and hard, but they still seem to fit in the groove and look like they are supposed to seal. New ones have a round profile, bad ones are flat.
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 03:59:26 PMneedle/screw o-ring
When I removed the screws I looked inside and verified that the o-rings were there, but did not remove them. How the hell do you get them out? Im not convinced that this is the main problem though because, aside from running lean, the bike ran great before I increased jet sizes. I suppose the real test would be to go back to stock setup and test again...ugh
Well, I think what happens is these are preset from the factory and they seal when new and the o-ring eventually hardens and flattens but IF YOU NEVER MOVE THE ADJUSTMENT SCREW then the seal never breaks. Once you open the caps and start trying to adjust it, you break the factory seal and since the o-ring can't expand anymore if it's hard and flat it doesn't seal any longer.
So if you didn't remove them, I almost 100% guarantee you they are bad.
They are very hard to remove. I used a .018" guitar string bent into a "L" shape on the end to "pick" them out. It took freakin' forever and I swear I aged a decade doing it. Oh yeah and I did this on TWO sets of carbs.
To get them out almost guarantees you will scrape them along the sides of the threads and screw up or tear what is a tiny o-ring.
I chased my tail a whole lot before finally biting the bullet and replacing these o-rings on my current carbs.
BTW you CAN replace these with the carbs on the bike but it's WAY easier to do it with them off and upside-down on the bench.
Quote from: Watcher on February 08, 2017, 01:52:02 PM
Have you checked for vacuum leaks?
I'll spray some carb cleaner around while it's running to see
Quote from: Watcher on February 08, 2017, 01:52:02 PM
What jetting are you running?
These are my configs that i got from http://beergarage.com/GSJet.aspx, halfway down the page username Scooky is running this on a 2009:
20.0 60.0 132.5 1 o-ring 2 turns out
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 04:19:52 PM
...used a .018" guitar string bent into a "L" shape on the end to "pick" them out
Thanks for the tip! I'm going to save this as my last resort thought, after checking the easier things
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 04:19:52 PM
it's WAY easier to do it with them off and upside-down on the bench
Sorry, I was referring to the jet needle that I raised the height on. Pretty sure I can work on that from the top.
Quote from: Darkstar on February 09, 2017, 06:45:18 AM
I'll spray some carb cleaner around while it's running to see
DO NOT SPRAY CARB CLEANER TO CHECK VACUUM LEAKS!!!
It will degrade rubber parts and will absolutely dissolve the rubber diaphragms in a GS's carbs.
Use some other method. Something inert. Water. Smoke. Or just go through everything and replace everything that might cause a vacuum leak.
Quote from: Darkstar on February 08, 2017, 01:24:26 PM
- One float bowl was at 10mm, the other at 13mm. Both are now set to 13.
I never understood this 13.6 crap. Fuel should be @ the top of the bowl via U tube method.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: mr72 on February 09, 2017, 07:58:45 AM
DO NOT SPRAY CARB CLEANER TO CHECK VACUUM LEAKS!!!
Gotcha. I'll use the cigar trick
Quote from: mr72 on February 09, 2017, 07:58:45 AM
DO NOT SPRAY CARB CLEANER TO CHECK VACUUM LEAKS!!!
IIRC WD40 works for that.
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on February 09, 2017, 09:33:52 AM
IIRC WD40 works for that.
Doesn't WD40 also degrade rubber?
Quote from: qcbaker on February 09, 2017, 10:13:13 AM
Doesn't WD40 also degrade rubber?
Oily, some use brake cleaner. Also I see people using an unlit propane pencil torch, vidoes show is being done in short sessions so it doesn't pool and ignite.
Quote from: qcbaker on February 09, 2017, 10:13:13 AMDoesn't WD40 also degrade rubber?
No, there was a myth going around not to use it to clean an O-Ring chain because it wanked out the rubber, to the best of my knowledge that was disproven years ago.
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on February 09, 2017, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: qcbaker on February 09, 2017, 10:13:13 AMDoesn't WD40 also degrade rubber?
No, there was a myth going around not to use it to clean an O-Ring chain because it wanked out the rubber, to the best of my knowledge that was disproven years ago.
I guess you're right. Looking at their website, it says it's safe to use on rubber. And apparently, some guy on a dirtbike forum soaked a rubber chain o-ring in WD40 for a month and it had no real effect: https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/534631-does-wd40-hurt-o-rings-a-test/
There's still lots of motorcycle forums who talk down WD40 for cleaning carbs... I wish they would stop but some people just don't read MSD sheets...
Regardless, for finding vacuum leaks, there are better solutions than WD40. And for carbs with rubber diaphragms, carb cleaner should be avoided at all costs. Once you tear down the carbs to metal parts only then carb cleaner works great for cleaning. But for vacuum leaks, use something else. Water is way cheaper and works.
Sounds like the better solution. I'll give it a shot after the blizzard stops here and updated you guys. thanks
You do realize that if it has a vacuum leak @ the boots or even anywhere else, you'd have issue idling and wont even start easy with the choke ... but rev fine when blipped right ?
You issue is else where. Maybe a slide is stuck open. Or something like it. I'll still bet floats.
Cool.
Buddha.
I worked as an air-tech at a paintball shop for several years and WD40 would absolutely degrade rubber.
It won't dissolve it like carb cleaner does, but it does have an affect on o-rings that is pretty profound.
A once stiff oring would, after being soaked in WD, turn soft and stretchy almost like a rubber band, and would invariably cause leaks and/or poor performance.
People would come in all the time complaining of a leaky gun or one that jams up or malfunctions and it would reek of WD. We'd confirm with the customer that WD was used as a lubricant.
Strip the whole gun, meticulously clean it, replace EVERY seal, lube with air tool oil, and send the customer out $50 lighter.
Use a spray-bottle of WATER to check for vacuum leaks.
Quote from: Watcher on February 09, 2017, 01:47:19 PM
I worked as an air-tech at a paintball shop for several years and WD40 would absolutely degrade rubber.
It won't dissolve it like carb cleaner does, but it does have an affect on o-rings that is pretty profound.
A once stiff oring would, after being soaked in WD, turn soft and stretchy almost like a rubber band, and would invariably cause leaks and/or poor performance.
People would come in all the time complaining of a leaky gun or one that jams up or malfunctions and it would reek of WD. We'd confirm with the customer that WD was used as a lubricant.
Strip the whole gun, meticulously clean it, replace EVERY seal, lube with air tool oil, and send the customer out $50 lighter.
Use a spray-bottle of WATER to check for vacuum leaks.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the paintball o-rings, but carb orings are a different type of rubber, meant to be around gasoline.. a pretty volatile chemical, I dont think anything in WD40 is as volatile as regular gasoline. paintball equipment is meant to hold air pressure and thats it, so they're gonna use cheap-o o-rings.
Quote from: J_Walker on February 09, 2017, 02:08:20 PM
Quote from: Watcher on February 09, 2017, 01:47:19 PM
I worked as an air-tech at a paintball shop for several years and WD40 would absolutely degrade rubber.
It won't dissolve it like carb cleaner does, but it does have an affect on o-rings that is pretty profound.
A once stiff oring would, after being soaked in WD, turn soft and stretchy almost like a rubber band, and would invariably cause leaks and/or poor performance.
People would come in all the time complaining of a leaky gun or one that jams up or malfunctions and it would reek of WD. We'd confirm with the customer that WD was used as a lubricant.
Strip the whole gun, meticulously clean it, replace EVERY seal, lube with air tool oil, and send the customer out $50 lighter.
Use a spray-bottle of WATER to check for vacuum leaks.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the paintball o-rings, but carb orings are a different type of rubber, meant to be around gasoline.. a pretty volatile chemical, I dont think anything in WD40 is as volatile as regular gasoline. paintball equipment is meant to hold air pressure and thats it, so they're gonna use cheap-o o-rings.
There's actually a variety of materials we use in the guns, including the Buna material commonly used in gasoline applications, and in some cases the seal needs to hold thousands of PSI.
Paintball guns usually run off of around an 800psi input, sometimes more, sometimes less, and I've personally owned a gun that was designed to withhold and operate at pressures up to 3000psi, which I have, and it does. The o-rings aren't what I'd call "cheap".
But I saw what I saw, and in my experience it wasn't just Urethane orings that were negatively affected by the wrong kind of lube.
Quote from: The Buddha on February 09, 2017, 01:45:11 PM
if it has a vacuum leak you'd have issue idling...
my idle is fine, so that's one test checked off the list and a reason not to buy a cigar...much obliged. now if you tell me that i gotta pull the o-ring from the mixture screw threads, id use other words. :) i'll put tube float level test at the top of my list.
Quote from: Darkstar on February 09, 2017, 03:55:20 PM
if you tell me that i gotta pull the o-ring from the mixture screw threads, id use other words. :)
Better get those words ready.
Eventually. It is going to have to be done.
Big steps forward today! I cleared the snow off to take a took and found two problems: first the airbox boots were mis-aligned so I think there was air leaking there, and second was that I routed vacuum tubes under the large breather hose, so with the tank on it was pushing down on them. After fixing both and taking the tank off, I ran it off a funnel. Spraying water all over it did nothing, so no air leaks there. Next, I set both pilot mixture screws to 2, adjusted both idle, and the the carb sync. After that, it sounds much much better. Throttle response is super quick, and it seems like it's breathing well because WOT runs up to redline much faster than before, and there's no hanging. I'm certainly out of the fubar stage, but i won't know until the roads dry and I take it for a ride.
The only major flaw is still the enricher. When I crack it open at idle, RPM's rise for a split second, and then bog out. I guess this means the idle circuit is still rich, but it starts effortlessly, even in 30F weather. I wonder if it'll be a problem in the summer though.
I attempted the float-tube-level-test, but discovered my tube was too wide for to seal. So, next up is a home depot run for that before I try again. I also decided not to pull the jet needle just yet. I will eventually because my c-clips are spinning, and I learned today that is very risky.
Sounds like it's still too rich on pilot.
Should require the choke to start AT ALL and within 15 seconds or so it should rev up to like 5K rpm while on choke ("fast warm up"). Then it should run fine with choke off after running like this about 30-60 seconds.
It it starts with no choke and dies when you turn on choke then it's too rich.
There are a number of reasons why it might be too rich, but I doubt it is your idle screw settings. Could be leaking o-rings on the pilot needle/idle mix adjuster or float level too high or stuck slide/main needle etc.
Sounds like your other problem was pinched vacuum line so the vac. petcock was not delivering fuel.
Thanks, with that in mind, these are my next steps:
1. Measure float height
2. Remove pilot mixture screws and inspect o-rings
3. Inspect slide and needle movement again
4. Tighten c clips
5. Test ride
Quote from: Darkstar on February 09, 2017, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on February 09, 2017, 01:45:11 PM
if it has a vacuum leak you'd have issue idling...
my idle is fine, so that's one test checked off the list and a reason not to buy a cigar...much obliged. now if you tell me that i gotta pull the o-ring from the mixture screw threads, id use other words. :) i'll put tube float level test at the top of my list.
Again will suck in air like a mofo if that O ring was bad and idle like crap and run great when revved.
And if you do pull it, I'd guarantee you, it will get shredded on the threads and spring on the way out and you will have to replace it. I'd correct the big issue first and do this, when its the only issue there is. Cos I'll guarantee you, you'd druck it up.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on February 10, 2017, 03:44:36 PM
I'd correct the big issue first
so to deduce:, i can take air leaks out of the equation because i idle well, and take jets out because it revs well at all RPMS's, and it's not likely the pilot circuit because it wouldn't idle if that was screwed up, but Im still running rich enough for enricher to stall, so this is why float height is the next right thing to check, is this the right line of thinking?
Quote from: Darkstar on February 10, 2017, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on February 10, 2017, 03:44:36 PM
I'd correct the big issue first
so to deduce:, i can take air leaks out of the equation because i idle well, and take jets out because it revs well at all RPMS's, and it's not likely the pilot circuit because it wouldn't idle if that was screwed up, but Im still running rich enough for enricher to stall, so this is why float height is the next right thing to check, is this the right line of thinking?
That's my line of reasoning so far. Check first before you open and start doing things @ random - oh one more check.
A float that is too high will be low on power and be boggy and sneezy as you accelerate but run well on steady throttle especially in the 1/4 to 3/4 throttle range. Too low, and it will pull fine but, misfire like a shot gun but still have good power (odd feeling) and surge and lack power and be unable to hold rpm on steady throttle.
Check the level with U-tube. Easier than riding it. Fix that, then ride it looking for the other symptoms. You have to start with a known location.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on February 10, 2017, 07:11:03 PM
A float that is too high...
Bingo. I owe you...and everyone else here that helped...beer. They're both very high, but it's not the float tang setting causing it. I'll consider this thread closed now because we found the main problem. Here's a new thread I opened to address the underlying cause, in case someone else comes along with the same problem -----> http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=71328.0
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 04:19:52 PM
o-rings...I almost 100% guarantee you they are bad.
ok, i can do this job now. would you mind verifying the part? i think it's this:
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/detail/suzuki/13295-29900/b1047061?m=16095&sch=649433
shown as list item #17 in this diagram:
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2007-suzuki-gs500f/o/m16095#sch649433
Yeah, 17
and also get 14 and the o-ring on the part labeled 21
or go here http://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_dr350_orings.html and order :
2 ea of SPN# 09280-40010
2 ea of SPN# 13295-29900 (that's the part #17)
2 ea of SPN# 13374-35C00 (that's the o-ring on the #21)
2 ea of SPN# 13374-46710 (that's #14)
I haven't added it up but it should be under $10 including shipping for all of these. While you have the carbs off to do the 14/17/21 parts, go ahead and change the intake boot o-rings (big ones).
IMHO
thanks so much for referring to me that site, what a great resource for saving money!
Quote from: mr72 on February 23, 2017, 09:38:41 AM
go ahead and change the intake boot o-rings (big ones)
are you referring to "TUBE,OUTLET 13881-01D60"?
line item 4 here: http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2007-suzuki-gs500f/o/m16095#sch649434
No, it's the SPN# 09280-40010 referred above
They go between the intake boots and the cylinder head.
You remove the airbox, then the carbs, then the intake boots (via two bolts each) and the o-rings are in a recess on the cylinder head side of the boots.
Most likely the old ones are flat and hard and you will think they are hard plastic. The new ones will be round profile and soft rubber and you'll immediately see why they needed to be replaced.
Quote from: mr72 on February 24, 2017, 01:51:24 PM
between the intake boots and the cylinder head
I see now, have to remove the intake pipe assembly first. Thanks. I'm glad I asked for your help.
Quote from: mr72 on February 08, 2017, 04:19:52 PM
...needle/screw o-ring...the o-ring eventually hardens and flattens but IF YOU NEVER MOVE THE ADJUSTMENT SCREW then the seal never breaks...they are very hard to remove. I used a .018" guitar string bent into a "L" shape on the end to "pick" them out. It took freakin' forever and I swear I aged a decade doing it. Oh yeah and I did this on TWO sets of carbs.
I just removed the pilot air mixture screws and the o-ring is attached along with a washer. I did not have to dig them out. Were you referring to the pilot jet? Or maybe it's that way on the older model, this is an 07. I don't see o-rings underneath the pilot jet, it's brass to brass. There are no o-rings listed as a part on bike-bandit, nor thisoldtractor. The smallest o-ring he sells is OR-9, which is for air-mixture.
Quote from: Darkstar on March 03, 2017, 11:30:43 AM
I just removed the pilot air mixture screws and the o-ring is attached along with a washer. I did not have to dig them out.
You mean, the o-ring (rubber) is stuck to the washer (stainless steel)?
Quote
Were you referring to the pilot jet?
No, I was talking about the pilot mixture "screw" needle. It's the thing you turn 2.5 turns out to get the mixture set. You have to drill and remove a cap to access it. It faces downwards on the bottom of the carb. The pointy end goes up into the orifice that feeds the pilot jet, so it limits the amount of fuel that can flow to the pilot jet.
Quote
The smallest o-ring he sells is OR-9, which is for air-mixture.
That's the one.
Assembled it looks like this:
(http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/Photos/CarbnJetPhotos/IdleMixScrew.jpg)
This picture shows the assembly with labels:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3798/9319889369_0b01658c34_o.jpg)
If I understand correctly, you removed this pilot screw/needle and the washer came out with the o-ring stuck to it, right? If so, just peel them apart and throw away the bad o-ring, count yourself lucky it came out, and put a new one in, be done with it.
Otherwise, did no o-ring come out? Because if that's the case, then the o-ring is still in there and you have to find a way to sort of claw it out. I used a piece of 22AWG wire bent into a "L" to pick them out. It's not trivial.
It's easy to become convinced that there is no o-ring in there because they are really kind of difficult to get out. But unless you actually removed one, it's there. Or, some previous owner removed it and didn't replace it.
It fits into a round recess in there so you can't even see it, even with the carb on the bench and upside down and you shining a light in the hole while looking with a magnifier.
Quote from: mr72 on March 03, 2017, 03:00:56 PM
OR-9, which is for air-mixture.
Yep, that was it. They both came out intact with the washer, and were in pretty good shape. I replaced them anyway.
And you were right, the underlying cause for some of my problems was the ring on the needle valve seat. It was totally packed with white fuel crud----->http://imgur.com/a/8OYjO. This is the reason that no matter how far I adjusted the float bowl tab, the fuel level was too high. In addition, fuel had collected and left a varnish on the brass seat itself. So I cleaned and replaced both. One other thing wat that I discovered that the needle can go on two different ways, and the clasp that hold it to the float behaves differently each way. One way opens quick and one opens smooth. I set them both to open smooth. Buttoned it all up and took it for a ride. Choke now works as designed. Float levels are in line with the gaskets. Doesn't bog down so I assume it's no longer rich, although I want to pull plugs next week. Will be interested to see what effect it has on fuel consumption. And you were also right about the intake booth o-ring, one of them was not only dried and flat, but leaking. Thanks for the help Mr72, Buddha, and whomever else walked me through this.