I've been on the small displacement bandwagon for quite some time and the whole "It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow" slogan seems to ring true for me.
Even now, after being on a 1203cc BEAST, I still pine for my 500s. They're good usable bikes, not wholly slow, but not brown-pants fast either.
Lately I've been getting more and more comfortable with the speed my motorcycle produces, and since the wow factor has diminished I find the speed and thrill of acceleration... less thrilling? More than that it's wholly unnecessary. Going up and down the mountain at first was a more or less magical experience for me because of the MOUNTAIN. Now that I'm used to the sights and the curves, I'm focused more on my technique as a rider and the manipulation of the motorcycle itself. Problem is, it's a simple one gear affair for the Buell. First will carry me up to 50mph in mere seconds, shifting to second while the power is on will lift the front end up again and carry me to about 80, and third will bring me to around 100. While that's pretty cool in it's own right, when the posted speed is 35mph with some turns being 30, and not wanting to really go over 50 at all because of the chance of an aggravated speeding charge, either I'm in second and play aggressive with the brakes and acceleration going into and coming out of turns, or I'm in third and have a more consistent higher speed throughout but a less aggressive ride overall. Either way there's no reason for me to be shifting up or down, and it makes for a rather dull experience.
Roll off throttle, shift weight, hold throttle, make turn, roll on, center weight, roll off, etc. I don't even need to use the brakes.
If I'm up there to cruise it's no harm no foul, but lately I've been wanting to get more curve aggressive. I want to hang off, I want to be shifting mid turn, I want to roll on hard coming out of the turn, and I want to do this LEGALLY (as legally as possible). Sure, go to a track day, and I want to, but I would also not want to use the Buell for that. I don't think I'd learn as much or be challenged as much as I would like on it.
Then I watch videos like this:
Max speed of about 60 in the straights, full knee-drag in the corners, and it's all done on a go-kart track! This is the kind of riding I really want to get into, less about speed and more about owning the corners.
And that YouTuber, Fonzie RR, used to be a canyon carver on a Daytona and other such bikes, but ultimately downsized to his Ninja 250 and started taking it to the go-kart track because he says it's a LOT cheaper to use the kart track than a full size track, it's safer than "Street GP", but the thrill is still there.
So even though I said I'd never trade in the Buell directly for something smaller, I'm honestly considering this now. And maybe smaller than a 500cc. Something like a CBR500R would be cool, I had a CB500F and I found it had smooth power delivery, did more than fine on the expressway, and the CBR version being a little more aggressively styled and positioned would be cool, but I'm also remembering how mine had aftermarket rear-sets and stuff to make it more aggressive riding friendly and the CBR would need that (a lot of added cost).
So instead I'm thinking more R3 or Ninja 300. Possibly even RC390 if I can find one. I rode an R3 last year and almost instantly fell in love with it, and I got a chance to ride an RC390 about a month or so ago and had a ton of fun on that as well.
300cc class can still break 80 on the interstate, which I'd need, but I can have good aggressive fun on public roads while not being a complete danger to myself and others.
Ideally I'd just get a Ninja in addition to the Buell, but I've never really been in the kind of financial situation to own two vehicles at once and currently I can really only afford to have one bike, so I'm considering trading down.
Someone please tell me it's either a good idea to have more economical fun while riding or a terrible one that I'll regret for the rest of my life because it'll be too small to deal with in traffic.
What you're saying makes sense to me :dunno_black: I've always been more attracted to vehicles that aren't "brown-pants fast" lololol I absolutely love that and I'm gonna remember it :icon_lol: I built up the suspension on my Spirit years ago and one of my favorite things to do was to floor that car and find curvy roads... might not sound like much fun but it sure was for me. Once I finish my restoration on it, I'll probably do it again... just one more time... and then that car will be babied for the rest of its/my life.
I like this post and I'm eager to see what others have to say.
just a few concerns. see if you can picture yourself on a particular bike for at least an hour and how youd feel afterwards. also see how a smaller bike would do on interstate. i.e wind kissues as well as traffic issues. ( gettinlg wind blasted by a tractor trailer. some smaller bikes dont do to good in this department )
Aaron
I get it. I sold my Vstrom 1000 and kept the GS500. I don't need to go 110 MPH on the highway and the vstrom is not much better in the dirt than a GS.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 15, 2017, 04:56:32 PM
just a few concerns. see if you can picture yourself on a particular bike for at least an hour and how youd feel afterwards. also see how a smaller bike would do on interstate. i.e wind kissues as well as traffic issues. ( gettinlg wind blasted by a tractor trailer. some smaller bikes dont do to good in this department )
Aaron
Being that most of these smaller motorcycles don't put you in full tuck I think I'll do just fine on something like an R3 for an extended time. I'm already leaned over quite a bit on the Buell, I've actually got lower than factory bars on it and on my GSs I typically ran "superbike" bars.
Wind may be a concern, but I don't think it'll be a major issue other than a mild inconvenience.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 15, 2017, 05:32:16 PM
I get it. I sold my Vstrom 1000 and kept the GS500. I don't need to go 110 MPH on the highway and the vstrom is not much better in the dirt than a GS.
My thinking exactly here. I don't need a top speed of 145mph and a 0-60 under 3 seconds for the street, but that's what I have. A 250 can go around a corner at 50mph just fine, it just might not make it up to 95 and back down before the next corner.
When I bought the Buell it was never about the cc size. I wasn't that concerned with how big it was. Looking back I never thought that perhaps I wouldn't like a bike that was this big, I was only just thinking "I don't care about the size, I know I can handle a big bike, I'm not for or against it." It looked cool, it was a V-twin, it sounded badass, 'Murica, Buell's are unique, it was in my price range, everything else in my price range didn't sparkle like the Buell did... I don't regret owning it, it's an awesome bike, but I may have misjudged my needs and my rider character.
I always bring up that I never really "outgrew" my 500s. I would sometimes (often) be outrun when hooning around with some friends, but it wasn't wholly disheartening because I knew what I had and I wasn't often running that thing flat out regardless.
I think it would be different if I knew I was using even 50% of that Buell when I "push it" in the mountains, but neither the streets nor my own personal ability come close to realizing it's full potential. When I was pushing 70-80% on my Honda I was having a really good time (and I think I can say with confidence that I was in 70-80%, I'd pin that throttle without hesitation and had the ABS come on more than a few times under hard braking, but I never really got a knee down in turns).
It's like... Someone takes you to an average steak restaurant and says "Order whatever you want, it's on me" and you get a big 16oz Sirloin steak with a ton of BS on the side and eat the whole thing and are like "Yes! That was great! Loved it! Could have been cooked a little rarer but it's fine, I enjoyed it anyway."
Then you go to a Gordon Ramsay owned restaurant with the same person, same situation, and you order a Beef Wellington and some other BS and when it comes to the table the waiter takes away your silverware. And you're like "Yeah, it's delicious, doubly so, but it's so hard to eat without silverware that I can't really enjoy it as much."
Wellington is the Buell, utensils are the road...
And that's a terrible example but its a somewhat ok way of describing how I feel about the situation.
"Too much bike, not enough road."
Why not a middleweight sportbike, like an R6 or ZX6R? They can be big enough not to get blown around on the freeway and retain the "thrill" of a lot of power, but aren't anywhere near as "fast" as a 1200cc like your current bike.
Or would you consider that still too much bike for the road?
Quote from: qcbaker on March 15, 2017, 08:13:47 PM
Why not a middleweight sportbike, like an R6 or ZX6R? They can be big enough not to get blown around on the freeway and retain the "thrill" of a lot of power, but aren't anywhere near as "fast" as a 1200cc like your current bike.
Or would you consider that still too much bike for the road?
Well, in reality an R6 is MORE bike than my 1203cc Buell, if you can believe it.
They make, on average these days, 20 more ponies and will push you around 20mph faster than my Lightning will :o
The difference is my Buell makes about twice the torque, but with a max of 7000 rpm to turn that torque out the only real difference is I achieve in 5 gears what an R6 will do in 6...
Also, because it's an air cooled twin it actually races in 600cc class. In that class it destroys around turns, the handling is awesome and it can really get up and go because of the torque from that V-twin, but it can't leg it out in the straights nor maintain a good top speed.
So it'll accelerate like a bat out of hell but runs out of engine relatively quickly.
This is an awesome race, here. It's not a Buell, per say, it's an EBR 1190RS. That being said, the same concept applies. It's got more torque, better brakes, and slightly better weight distribution compared to the almost 200cc smaller GSXR, but the GSXR has the edge in pure output.
As if I didn't need any more temptation, I found a naked converted 2007 GS500F that's in decent condition with an owner who wants to trade up to something bigger. Sent him pictures of my Buell and he's interested.
I didn't make any promises, but I told him if we met up soon at the very least we could enjoy the weather. There's a group heading up the mountain this weekend so I used that as an excuse to see it. IDK if I can actually go through with it, though. The GS is tried and true but there are a few fundamental things I would want to do to it that may be difficult or expensive. Rear-sets being one...
I read your original post, and the comments, with interest. I have been riding motorcycles, on and off, for over 50 years and my days of trying to be a boy racer are long behind me. I've never really been into big bikes: an R1 rider told me a while back that he could only do two speeds on his, 80 km/hr or 280! And that seems to make sense to me. The real point I wanted to make was that you can shed too many cc's. A 125 or 250 is a lot of fun in a city, weaving in and out of traffic, but if you ride on the highway than you top speed is limited to about 110-120 km/hr, and after about 80 the acceleration is not too exciting. You might also find yourself exposed and vulnerable because you have no power/torque in hand to get you out of trouble.
Another point is that most of the roads in North America are essentially straight: this makes for fairly tedious riding is you can't get a brisk acceleration up to the speed limit. I agree that anything more is wasted (unless you like risking the tickets), but on those long straights there really is nothing else to keep you interested but acceleration. Once you hit the twisties, then you need a bike that you can flick over from side to side and have fun with, and a 500 - 750cc bike should cover that quite nicely.
However, that's just my opinion. You must look and where and for how long you will ride your bike for yourself and decide what suits you best.
Isn't the RC390 closer to a "true" sportbike in terms of riding position, gearing, power delivery, etc.? I mean, MotoAmerica even has a whole racing division dedicated to it...
Maybe that would be the right "fit" for what you want, then?
You know I will say "do it".
R3 sounds perfect for you. Or that converted GS-F you suggested. That's a known quantity. But the R3 would be way more reliable and modern, as well a more sporty if you're into that kind of thing (and it sounds like you are).
The Duke 390 is an interesting angle, and given your enjoyment of the sort of unconventional nature of the Buell it may suit you well. Plus it likely has similar torque/rpm delivery as your Buell so it may be an easier transition, but it might not give you want you want in terms of engagement with the machine.
I drove a Miata for 15 years and had the same exact reaction. Everyone would tell me how much better their 400hp cars were and all that but the fact was that the Miata forced you to learn to use the gears and get to know the power peak and rev limits, it sounded amazing when revved to 7K and made you want to do that all the time. And I could commute to work and feel like I'd just driven in a grand prix, all without breaking the speed limit.
I tell this story often but one time when I was young I had a 240Z. One day on my way to work I come to a stop light up next to a guy in a Porsche 911 turbo. I figure, now's my chance to go at it with this Porsche! You know, I was young (probably 22). So the light turns green and I hit it, rev that gorgeous sounding inline 6 to 7200 rpms on every shift and make that car do every bit of the 0-60 in 7ish seconds that it was capable of, barely edging the 911 to my left. I remember then looking over victoriously to find the Porsche driver was reading a newspaper during our stoplight grand prix. Point is, in my car it was thrilling and fast and engaging and in the 911 it was so dull you had to entertain yourself with the newspaper. Give me the vehicle that entertains me during my mundane drive, every time.
Quote from: mr72 on March 16, 2017, 08:17:40 AM
I tell this story often but one time when I was young I had a 240Z. One day on my way to work I come to a stop light up next to a guy in a Porsche 911 turbo. I figure, now's my chance to go at it with this Porsche! You know, I was young (probably 22). So the light turns green and I hit it, rev that gorgeous sounding inline 6 to 7200 rpms on every shift and make that car do every bit of the 0-60 in 7ish seconds that it was capable of, barely edging the 911 to my left. I remember then looking over victoriously to find the Porsche driver was reading a newspaper during our stoplight grand prix. Point is, in my car it was thrilling and fast and engaging and in the 911 it was so dull you had to entertain yourself with the newspaper. Give me the vehicle that entertains me during my mundane drive, every time.
:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
This is hilarious! Funny, too, because my brother drives a Miata, yet constantly insists that his first gen SV650 is far superior to my GS...
Watcher, I wish I had something to add, but having never ridden anything bigger than my GS, I don't know what to tell you. I always say that I want a bigger bike some day, but for now I'm happy with the GS. Even when I do get something faster, it'll likely be an FZ-07, which is still reasonable, I think. Still more of a standard riding position that I like from the GS, but with some extra oomph.
Quote from: rscottlow on March 16, 2017, 08:59:37 AM
...
his first gen SV650 is far superior to my GS...
...
The engine? Yes. The aesthetics? That gen SV650S has a face only a mother could love...
agreed on the speed comments. and i know the buells powertrain well. its essentially a tweaked harley sportster. or wsas that the thunderbolt? anyhoo, after much thought, the r3 sounds tastier and tastier. or the 390 even.
Aaron
I think your Buell will be one missed wen you're older. The kind of bike you wish you'd kept because of what it is. I wouldn't get another GS500 personally unless you really miss it. If that's the bike you must have, get it, otherwise I'd keep an open mind. Why not book a couple of test rides, see who got what. My bike history is crap, Honda CG125 for 5 hours, Yamaha YBR125 for about 3 hours, Yamaha XJ6 restricted to 33bhp, none of which belonged to me, and my GS500. I'm a little more excited to try different bikes, but if it was me, I'd be riding around on all the new toys.
Chris
O0
Quote from: barry905 on March 16, 2017, 02:36:29 AM
The real point I wanted to make was that you can shed too many cc's. A 125 or 250 is a lot of fun in a city, weaving in and out of traffic, but if you ride on the highway than you top speed is limited to about 110-120 km/hr, and after about 80 the acceleration is not too exciting. You might also find yourself exposed and vulnerable because you have no power/torque in hand to get you out of trouble.
Another point is that most of the roads in North America are essentially straight: this makes for fairly tedious riding is you can't get a brisk acceleration up to the speed limit.
Since I live about 10 minutes from the base of a mountain and the surrounding terrain has many roads that aren't the long straight, I can say with 100% confidence that the roads I ride for fun are twisty, so I don't feel like I need a bike that will 0-60 in 3 seconds.
The only times I would suffer going straight for an extended period is commuting out of town, and that's a dull experience at 80, at 100, at 180...
Quote from: qcbaker on March 16, 2017, 05:53:52 AM
Isn't the RC390 closer to a "true" sportbike in terms of riding position, gearing, power delivery, etc.? I mean, MotoAmerica even has a whole racing division dedicated to it...
Maybe that would be the right "fit" for what you want, then?
I'm seriously considering it. I did experience first hand one downside of the RC. They run hot, and factory coolant caps are NOT rated properly, so they like to overflow coolant. The radiator needs a definite upgrade from factory, or you need to mod the fan to stay on, in the Arizona heat that may be a concern.
That being said, I did find one locally for a hair over $4000 OBO with about 7000 miles on it, an extra set of tires, and some tasteful mods. No trades, but if I can secure the bike on word of mouth and a buyer for the Buell I might be able to make a deal all in one day... It's a possibility.
Quote from: mr72 on March 16, 2017, 08:17:40 AM
You know I will say "do it".
The Duke 390 is an interesting angle, and given your enjoyment of the sort of unconventional nature of the Buell it may suit you well. Plus it likely has similar torque/rpm delivery as your Buell so it may be an easier transition, but it might not give you want you want in terms of engagement with the machine.
The Duke is cool, but it's essentially just a smaller version of what I already have, but I'm thinking of going a little more aggressive. I could always put drag bars on the Duke, but I'm thinking more RC390.
The only thing really keeping me from going all in on one is the full clip-ons. I've never ridden a proper sportbike for longer than a half hour, I don't know how my body will handle a full tuck for an extended period.
I like your 240Z story. It's echos my sentiment pretty well.
@Rscottlow those FZ07s are supreme. Not a ton of power over the GS, but they have quite a noticeable boost in torque, sound way cooler, and look hella aggressive. They're sweet bikes.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 16, 2017, 12:28:50 PM
i know the buells powertrain well. its essentially a tweaked harley sportster. or wsas that the thunderbolt? anyhoo, after much thought, the r3 sounds tastier and tastier. or the 390 even.
Aaron
Thunderbolt and Lightning are essentially the same powerplant and trans in a different chassis. You aren't wrong.
Quote from: the_63 on March 16, 2017, 01:59:33 PM
I think your Buell will be one missed wen you're older. The kind of bike you wish you'd kept because of what it is. I'm a little more excited to try different bikes, but if it was me, I'd be riding around on all the new toys.
Ideally I'd just keep the Buell and pick up a little toy bike, but I'm not in the kind of financial situation where I can justify two machines (nor can afford right now), and there are other things looking ahead that concern me about long term Buell ownership.
Many parts are coming from donor bikes, and that being the case parts can be sort of expensive for what they are, and on the Buell communities I'm a part of when a donor machine pops up online it's picked apart like piranhas on a carcass. Immediately it's set upon by the community and stripped for almost everything, sometimes starting bidding wars. All it would take is a stator to go bad and I could have a really big paperweight for a day, a week, a month? Depends on if I am first in line and how much $$ I have to spend, or even if the donor has the part I need...
Sorry, I know double post but my last was really meaty and I wanted some separation for this.
Just browsing YouTube for videos of small displacement bikes on track days I came across this. An editor for Motorcyclist Magazine has a highly modified CBR300R that he frequently races. In this particular example he is racing at a local track that they often use as a testing grounds for new motorcycles they are going to review.
He sets a 350 Supersport lap record of 1:58.66 going flat out balls to the wall. By comparison, they mention that when they try to get good lap times on reviewed motorcycles 4 times the size, like a BMW S1000RR or Kawi ZX10R, they get around 1:54-2:05 lap times.
Despite all the mods that little popper is only making 8HP more than stock, and to set that time he averaged 81mph. Apparently the stock max speed of a CBR300R is a mere 11mph more...
Being lighter and more powerful and potentially geared differently means
this CBR might have a top speed over 100, but it's still an impressive feat, and a clear testament of what someone who can use 90%+ of a motorcycle can do with it. Most people wouldn't believe that, with the right rider, a 250 can BEAT a 1000 around a track...
could use regular sportster parts instead of buell. ( same thing MOSTLY) I DID PUT A SET of bujell heads on my 883c for a slight compression boost. but heck even sportster parts dont hang around long online.
Aaron
I messaged someone I met not too long ago with an RC390 who was all star eyed over my Buell and mentioned that I kind of wanted to downsize and kind of wanted an RC390, and said if he wanted to upgrade any time in the near future maybe we could trade bikes and he seemed excited at the prospect.
His has some tasteful mods done. Rear fender eliminator, painted fairings, LED license plate bracket... Might meet up and swap bikes to see if we like them on the road.
I'm more and more interested in the possibilities here. Since I'm more or less out of work at the moment I might just try to sell the Buell and pick up something else locally. Seems to be a few good deals around.
Maybe I could end up making money in the process.
Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 02:15:29 PM
Since I live about 10 minutes from the base of a mountain and the surrounding terrain has many roads that aren't the long straight, I can say with 100% confidence that the roads I ride for fun are twisty, so I don't feel like I need a bike that will 0-60 in 3 seconds.
The only times I would suffer going straight for an extended period is commuting out of town, and that's a dull experience at 80, at 100, at 180...
Usually when I hear the "you need a bigger bike" sentiment it's either because a) one should get "bored" with sub-5-second 0-60 acceleration and eventually long for the sub-4-second bikes (in other words, this is a serious lack of maturity speaking) or b) riding on TX toll roads with 85mph speed limits and the attendant wind especially from 18-wheelers makes a light-middle-weight naked street bike feel pretty iffy.
In opposition to my 240Z story ... we have a lot of windy roads around here since I'm at the entry to the "Texas Hill Country" and I can tell you my Miata would positively smoke any >2500lb car on the twisty roads, regardless of horsepower. Yes, that includes the mighty Honda S2000s. In corners weight is king. Momentum, intertia, the ability to change direction, and controllability are all dependent almost entirely on weight. The best a high-hp (heavier) car can hope to do is have enough brakes to slow down much more in corners than the Miata has to and then enough power to rapidly accelerate to make up lost time coming out of a corner. If there's inadequate space before the next corner, then you can't make up that time.
One time I went to an autocross when I was a teenager and watched as someone pulled up with a Lamborghini Diablo. It was a riot of knocked-down cones and tire smoke. Then a dude in a 1100-lb Formula Vee, all of probably 90 horsepower, proceeded to carve out a lap with precision and grace that was far and away the fastest of the day among all cars, by huge margin. Huge.
Quote
I did experience first hand one downside of the RC. They run hot, and factory coolant caps are NOT rated properly, so they like to overflow coolant.
May not be the radiator cap is the only problem. In AZ you are going to be taxing any marginal cooling system tremendously. You are right that higher capacity radiator is probably the ticket. Then getting the coolant chemistry exactly right will probably help a lot. Miatas are notoriously poor at cooling from the factory, "adequate" provided everything is in perfect condition, but to cope with TX summers with the AC on and rush hour traffic jams I eventually upgraded to an aluminum 5-core racing radiator and ran 80% distilled water with the balance P-HOAT and half a bottle of Redline Water Wetter. I owned two water-cooled VWs and they were simply inadequate cooling systems for TX. I'm not convinced the Germans (or Austrians in KTM's case) understand the kind of heat we have in the American southwest.
The radiator needs a definite upgrade from factory, or you need to mod the fan to stay on, in the Arizona heat that may be a concern.
That being said, I did find one locally for a hair over $4000 OBO with about 7000 miles on it, an extra set of tires, and some tasteful mods. No trades, but if I can secure the bike on word of mouth and a buyer for the Buell I might be able to make a deal all in one day... It's a possibility.
Quote
The Duke is cool, but it's essentially just a smaller version of what I already have, but I'm thinking of going a little more aggressive. I could always put drag bars on the Duke, but I'm thinking more RC390.
Fair enough. I am not into the sport bike looks at all. But the Duke looks ridiculous anyway. If they made that bike with aesthetics more akin to a Ducati Monster, SV650 or even my beloved GS500E then I'd be tempted.
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The only thing really keeping me from going all in on one is the full clip-ons. I've never ridden a proper sportbike for longer than a half hour, I don't know how my body will handle a full tuck for an extended period.
No kidding. Which is why I'd prefer the Duke :) May be worth test-riding both.
Quote
@Rscottlow those FZ07s are supreme. Not a ton of power over the GS, but they have quite a noticeable boost in torque, sound way cooler, and look hella aggressive. They're sweet bikes.
I dig them a lot too only not really stoked about the appearance. If they brought the XSR700 here (essentially same bike with different aesthetics) then I'd probably own one by now.
Quote
...there are other things looking ahead that concern me about long term Buell ownership....All it would take is a stator to go bad and I could have a really big paperweight for a day, a week, a month?
Sounds like it's becoming a collector item. This is precisely why I sold my 240Z, which I still sort of regret to this day, but it was the right choice at the time. This is the kind of thing where you may kick yourself for selling it and moving on, but I bet you'd kick yourself much harder if you kept it. I could tell you more stories but you get the point.
I wonder if you might wind up in the same boat with a KTM. How abundant are those parts? Seems like it might be somewhat exotic. Maybe a Yamaha or Honda might be much easier to keep up day to day.
Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 07:51:43 PM
I'm more and more interested in the possibilities here. Since I'm more or less out of work at the moment I might just try to sell the Buell and pick up something else locally. Seems to be a few good deals around.
Maybe I could end up making money in the process.
You could sell the Buell now(ish) while they are still easy to sell, buy yourself a GS500 for cheap that will suffice for transportation while you settle on what you want for the long term, then flip the GS later on and likely get every penny back out of it.
Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 02:15:29 PM
...
I'm thinking of going a little more aggressive. I could always put drag bars on the Duke, but I'm thinking more RC390.
The only thing really keeping me from going all in on one is the full clip-ons. I've never ridden a proper sportbike for longer than a half hour, I don't know how my body will handle a full tuck for an extended period.
If you want to go full "Street Rossi" and drag knees in the the twisties, you need a bike that has you close to true sportbike positioning. But, if you don't think that will be comfortable long term, maybe you really do need two bikes to truly get what you want :dunno_black:.
I still think an RC390 (with maybe upgraded cooling) would get you riding the way you want.
Quote from: mr72 on March 17, 2017, 06:34:25 AM
Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 02:15:29 PM
I did experience first hand one downside of the RC. They run hot, and factory coolant caps are NOT rated properly, so they like to overflow coolant.
May not be the radiator cap is the only problem. In AZ you are going to be taxing any marginal cooling system tremendously. You are right that higher capacity radiator is probably the ticket. Then getting the coolant chemistry exactly right will probably help a lot. Miatas are notoriously poor at cooling from the factory, "adequate" provided everything is in perfect condition, but to cope with TX summers with the AC on and rush hour traffic jams I eventually upgraded to an aluminum 5-core racing radiator and ran 80% distilled water with the balance P-HOAT and half a bottle of Redline Water Wetter. I owned two water-cooled VWs and they were simply inadequate cooling systems for TX. I'm not convinced the Germans (or Austrians in KTM's case) understand the kind of heat we have in the American southwest.
The radiator needs a definite upgrade from factory, or you need to mod the fan to stay on, in the Arizona heat that may be a concern.
So here's a thing, I talked to him again about that. He said a few things of interest. Apparently the biggest problem wasn't that the cap is improper, it was the fact his bike was overfilled. He checked it according to the manual and even after spilling over it was a little high. Hasn't had it happen again since.
He said the coolant cap thing was the "hot fix" that everyone on forums was doing. So it's not necessarily that the cap is the issue, just people do that to prevent the system spilling over while they work to diagnose the real issue.
I had suggested he look into modding the fan and see if he can just switch it on manually. IDK if there is a way to make it so the fan runs on schedule until you flip the switch, that way he could leave it off for out in the country and switch it on specifically for traffic in town.
From my own research I did find that it seems the 2015 KTMs specifically had an inadequate fan schedule, and furthermore the OE fan just doesn't seem up to par because it's one of the Bajaj parts on an otherwise mostly Austrian bike. The #1 mod is upgrading the fan, and along with an ECU update from KTM to increase the frequency of fan activation they are good to go.
A good mix of coolant would be a step in the right direction as well. We barely get to freezing at night in the winter.
Is there a disadvantage to running straight water?
Quote from: mr72 on March 17, 2017, 06:34:25 AM
Quote from: Watcher on March 16, 2017, 02:15:29 PM
The Duke is cool, but it's essentially just a smaller version of what I already have, but I'm thinking of going a little more aggressive. I could always put drag bars on the Duke, but I'm thinking more RC390.
Fair enough. I am not into the sport bike looks at all. But the Duke looks ridiculous anyway. If they made that bike with aesthetics more akin to a Ducati Monster, SV650 or even my beloved GS500E then I'd be tempted.
Honestly? I'm not into the whole full-fairing sport bike look either...
Ordinarily...
I see an R6 or a CBR1000RR and I'm like "Meh... Doesn't do it for me." Even despite wanting an R3 or Ninja300 I am not super thrilled about the fairing, but I get the reasons, and won't let it stop me because I know I'm after the performance, not the looks.
That being said, I think the RC looks incredible! I like the aggressive angles, I like the full belly-pan covering the underslung exhaust with the little outlet for the muffler tip, and I like that the side fairings don't really cover up that much, they end pretty short. You still see a TON of that orange trellis frame and can identify much of the engine on either side. Looking at a stripped RC it's pretty apparent that the fairings don't really cover up much at all. As far as full fairings go, it seems more "function over form", a little more minimalist, and at the same time looks likes something the US Air Force would come up with.
It may be the bike that breaks me of fairings.
And regarding part availability, they happen to be opening up a KTM dealer nearby in the next month or two. I should have no trouble getting parts and service.
You could always do a streetfighter style conversion for any fully-faired sportbike. You'd retain the sport positioning and bike performance, but get a naked look.
We wound up at the dealer yesterday and they had a used KTM Duke 390. I sat on it just to get an idea of the feel. Bike definitely feels light but it's just too small. Halfway between a GS500 and a GROM. I guess it would be great if you are under about 5'7" but I'm just shy of 6ft with long arms and legs and it would simply be too small for me to ride.
They also had a used ducati scrambler that was hard to walk away from. Went home and went for a ride and confirmed I still dig the GS500 as much as any new bike.
Here's a deal that's hard to walk away from, and it's in an entirely different direction.
A 2000 Ducati Monster 750. With 3800 original miles. Trade straight across for the Buell.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/0Y6EZk.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pn0Y6EZkj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/JLEi6H.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmJLEi6Hj)
It's not the best deal monetarily. KBB on my Buell is just over $4k but the market kills it. It's a total niche bike from a company that's out of business and they typically sell around $3k depending on condition. Keep in mind I bought mine for $3k with newer tires, and now that I'm trying to sell it it has bald tires. Yes, there's a Corbin seat and some other nice things I added, but it's still around $3k worth of bike.
The Ducati KBB is like $2500, and they do market at KBB, but considering this one is near mint I could see it being around $3k.
Guy lives about 5-6 hours north of me, said he'd be trailering it down to make the trade. I'm like 90% gonna go for it. Only think holding me back is in the back of my mind I know the Buell is worth more.
But multiple people have told me, and I agree, that because Ducati is still in business parts won't be hard to find, and because it's a DUCATI even if it's worth less I'll be able to sell it in a heartbeat in case I just decide I hate it...
So I think I'm gonna go for it.
I thought you wanted a lightweight sportbike? Lol, definitely a step in a different direction.
Anyway, the Monster is a very cool bike. If its really what you want, go for it.
Only concern: No idea if the maintenance schedule is the same for the Monster as it is for Ducati's sportbikes (timing belt change every 2 years or 12K, valve checks [where you need to remove the timing belt] every 6K, etc), but I would be concerned about maintenance since you ride so much. Ducati shop rates are INSANE. If you do everything yourself, you mitigate some financial burden, but it is a PITA to have to wrench on your bike so much.
Quote from: qcbaker on April 05, 2017, 09:58:41 AM
I thought you wanted a lightweight sportbike? Lol, definitely a step in a different direction.
Anyway, the Monster is a very cool bike. If its really what you want, go for it.
Only concern: No idea if the maintenance schedule is the same for the Monster as it is for Ducati's sportbikes (timing belt change every 2 years or 12K, valve checks [where you need to remove the timing belt] every 6K, etc), but I would be concerned about maintenance since you ride so much. Ducati shop rates are INSANE. If you do everything yourself, you mitigate some financial burden, but it is a PITA to have to wrench on your bike so much.
On a positive note, based on the look of the guy's garage, he takes care of his stuff. So at least you can feel pretty good about the maintenance history.
Quote from: rscottlow on April 05, 2017, 10:32:16 AM
On a positive note, based on the look of the guy's garage, he takes care of his stuff. So at least you can feel pretty good about the maintenance history.
That is true. I didn't mean to come off so negative lol.
Well, it's kinda SV650 territory, which was one of the bikes on my list, lol. I was interested in generally downsizing, but was really curious about going WAY down.
It's no R3, but regardless I wanted something small-mid displacement that was sporty. A GS500 was on my list, too.
Yeah, I probably won't be tracking the Duc either, but considering the cost of a track suit and all that it probably won't happen soon anyway.
I still want a small sport bike, but I think it would be good in addition to a typical commuter.
But yeah, it's a valve check at 6k, belt at 12k. But the GS's valve check interval is just as bad, and valves do "settle in" so over time you can stretch it.
I'd be doing the work all myself, I already looked up videos of those two procedures and it's simple enough to do with basic tools.
The bike is extremely low miles, clean as hell, and the Monster is a damn cool bike. If you're confident in your ability to keep up with the maintenance, then it seems like a good buy. Especially for you, since I know you'll actually RIDE the damn thing lol. I mean, its a 17 year old bike with only 3800 miles on it. Barely ever ridden, man.
Seems to me, tons of Ducati owners care more about OWNING a Ducati than actually riding one (I have a similar issue with Harley guys...). Maybe it has somehting to do with Ducati service pricing...
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/76465057/roll-safe-hd2-you-dont-have-to-get-your-ducati-serviced-if-you-never-ride-it.jpg)
Already got in touch with a guy on another forum who supposedly has over 250k miles on his 1993 M900 :icon_eek:
If that isn't a testament to reliability I don't know what is.
He gave me a lot of good recommendations and advice. Said that he started doing valve checks once a year (15-20k) after getting to 40k because he noticed they had settled in and barely changed anymore.
Said he can get 20-30k off a belt so he does that once a year, and he gets ~50k off a set of clutch plates but that's highly dependant on how abusive of a rider you are.
Bearings and brakes and such around 50k, piston rings and other engine stuff around 100k, and he mentioned forks, carbs, master cylinders, calipers, etc closer to around 200k.
That ain't bad at all.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do Watcher! I'm excited for you and have really been enjoying this thread!!!
I think it sounds awesome. There's nothing much cooler than riding a Ducati 😎
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I made sure to get a video of a cold start, fires right up.
I sent him better Buell photos, he sent me back better photos of the Ducky. DAMN it's in good shape! :o
I mean, I expected good from a bike with under 4000 miles, but I didn't expect what he sent me. The thing could be eaten off of, it's showroom quality.
I jumped on it. Said yes, yes, yes, we're doing it, money be damned I don't care if it's a deal technically in his favor, I want that Ducky.
Hopefully this weekend.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/YJTGiN.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmYJTGiNj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/tkygGu.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmtkygGuj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/C0OQI3.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmC0OQI3j)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/lxh0zU.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnlxh0zUj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/fjvUcj.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnfjvUcjj)
Quote from: Watcher on April 05, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
Already got in touch with a guy on another forum who supposedly has over 250k miles on his 1993 M900 :icon_eek:
If that isn't a testament to reliability I don't know what is.
...
Now THAT is a lot of riding lol. And yeah, pretty much any bike can be reliable if you keep up with the maintenance.
Quote from: Watcher on April 05, 2017, 09:24:45 PM
I made sure to get a video of a cold start, fires right up.
Always a smart thing to do.
Quote
I sent him better Buell photos, he sent me back better photos of the Ducky. DAMN it's in good shape! :o
I mean, I expected good from a bike with under 4000 miles, but I didn't expect what he sent me. The thing could be eaten off of, it's showroom quality.
I jumped on it. Said yes, yes, yes, we're doing it, money be damned I don't care if it's a deal technically in his favor, I want that Ducky.
Hopefully this weekend.
*pictures*
Its funny that you keep calling it the Ducky and it's yellow... Your bike's nickname HAS to be "The Rubber Ducky".
I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat. I'm often tempted to just buy a M750 straight up. I could probably buy one with low miles like this (man if it's really only $3K ...) and sell my GS for nearly enough to cover the cost. Too much more of this and I'll talk myself into a 20-year-old Ducati.
Quote from: qcbaker on April 06, 2017, 05:41:51 AM
Its funny that you keep calling it the Ducky and it's yellow... Your bike's nickname HAS to be "The Rubber Ducky".
Well, the common nickname for a Ducati is a Duck. This one is yellow. I couldn't resist!
Quote from: mr72 on April 06, 2017, 08:07:40 AM
I'm often tempted to just buy a M750 straight up. I could probably buy one with low miles like this (man if it's really only $3K ...) and sell my GS for nearly enough to cover the cost. Too much more of this and I'll talk myself into a 20-year-old Ducati.
Dude, I was totally surprised to learn that these older monsters KBB under $3k. There are two late 90s-early2000s 750 "Dark" monsters on Craigslist in my area for around $2500 right now.
The challenge is with the valve check schedule and timing belt can you find one you can trust?
I guess if it runs well and the belts look fine you should be ok. The rest is exterior condition.
Hell, if it's a cool bike maybe I'll pick up a second cheap one to turn into a tracker. Take the turn signals off to save weight, put one foldable mirror on it, frame sliders, clip-ons, rejet, etc.
Looks easy enough to run GP shift on, just flip the clamp on the shift shaft.
Quote from: Watcher on April 06, 2017, 10:07:48 AM
Dude, I was totally surprised to learn that these older monsters KBB under $3k. There are two late 90s-early2000s 750 "Dark" monsters on Craigslist in my area for around $2500 right now.
KBB or not, that is not near the market in my area.
For example:
https://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/6029718240.html
yeah, 35K miles, mods, a 600cc (which really is comparable with a GS500 for power), and $3K.
In fact a search for my local CL for Ducati and max $3K turned up only that bike and a non-running "SSi" whatever that is, for $1K.
I did see a "Dark" M600 for like $2K in College Station right about the time I bought my GS but figured the GS was probably way more reliable. And I did only pay $900 for my GS. But now after all of the work I am sure I could get >$2K for my GS if I sold it and it might be tempting to do so if I thought I could get a Monster 750 for only $500 more.
https://tucson.craigslist.org/mcy/6060481315.html
Just for the sake of comparison.
One thing to consider is ALL motorcycles seem to be inflated this time of year since it's the start of "riding season".
I don't know how Austin is but Tucson is basically year round riding weather so the market seems pretty stable.
You're only 13 hours away, rent a trailer for $30, you can crash on my couch for a night, and head back with a Dark Duck in tow!
Though... With gas and time spent you're probably better off just spending the extra $500 on that one in town...
Yeah I see that but it's nowhere near the condition or mileage of the one you found...
Austin has year-round riding as long as you can tolerate the heat. I would think the time when demand is lowest will be in about August. I can't imagine anyone selling a motorcycle on a day like today (gorgeous, not a cloud in the sky, no wind, low 50F and high 75F).
I hear you, it's not every day you find a near mint Ducati.
The more I look at it the more I'm like "I can't pass this up." I'll never see another Duck like that outside of a museum or collector's garage.
If you don't do it, I'll fly to Phoenix or Tucson or wherever it is and ride the thing home myself.
I guess that'd add 1/3 more miles on the bike :)
We got the time and the place all set, now it's just the waiting game.
Revzilla is spying on you, Watcher:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-some-riders-are-downsizing-to-smaller-motorcycles
Lol, it would appear so :laugh:
I got it!
I'm hesitant to say the factory seat sucks, spending 6 hours in the saddle, ANY saddle, would make your bum ache. I'm tired...
Initial impression is more or less what I expected, it's a 3/4 scale of my Buell. Not only volumetrically smaller, but it feels a bunch lighter and I can flat-foot it with some knee bend. While the Buell wasn't tip-toe, it did keep my heels off the ground.
Not as torquey, but still carries me over 100mph no problem.
Needs a downshift to get in that powerband, it's not as capable of the lazy roll-on to go fast. It still will pull you, it has torque, but to really open it up you need to mix in that trans. Perfect, that's exactly what I was looking for!
Mikuni CV carbs, so it's territory I'm somewhat familiar with.
The mirrors he put on there aren't Puig, and they SUCK to use because they're tiny, but they look pretty sharp and they're reasonably sturdy and well made. I'll fiddle with them a bit and if I can't use them I have the giant round factory mirrors I can toss on.
It's nimble AF, feels lighter than it is, feels like it so dearly wants to carve corners, even more so than the Buell did. I'm gonna have a LOT of fun on this bike.
Need an exhaust. It has this essence of a grunty engine but it's tragically silenced. At least it's not waking up the neighbors, for now...
Congrats dude! I'm glad to hear you like it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Got it all cleaned up today, wiped it down good, cleaned up the headers with some Scotch Brite as best I could without removing them, and checked everything like tire pressure and such.
Played with the adjustment of all the controls, and set it to GP shift because why the hell not?
The rear brake was glazed from the PO and would vibrate and squeal an unsettling amount under hard braking, so I took the pads out and sanded them down to new material, then scuffed the rotor up some. I have to rebed them, and hopefully that cured the issue, haven't gone on a serious test ride since I haven't registered or transferred the title yet. First thing tomorrow, then I'm going up the mountain for a photo shoot!
The factory wind-screen is ugly as hell. I won't use it. I'm glad I have it since it's a factory part, but it's like some odd mini batwing, and installing it requires me to remount the turn signals. No thanks.
I also can't store my disk-lock anywhere on the bike. Rather than having an under seat storage tray like every other bike I've ever owned, under the seat is a fuse panel, some wiring for the rear lights, and the plastic cover that finishes the bodywork. The tool kit is actually mounted to the seat, there's a compartment with a lid you open up. Its roomy enough that I fit my SOG multitool, a metric bicycle tool (basically an Allen multitool), and my Rok straps in it in addition to the factory tool kit, but the dimensions are too small to fit my lock even by itself.
Other than some kind of tool box/pouch I can mount elsewhere on the bike I wonder if I can find a lower-profile lock...
Anyway, here it is. A picture of it at home after I got done detailing it, and a shot of the odometer reading 4k (I was able to exit off the interstate just to get that picture, it was good timing! Otherwise I would have had to pull over onto the shoulder and that wouldn't have been safe so I might have just kept going and not gotten the picture.) Also the view from Lake Pleasant in Phoenix shortly after making the deal. Detoured specifically for it to complete the picture game challenge for the FaceBook group.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/924/2UPoCl.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/po2UPoClj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/FLsh6U.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmFLsh6Uj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/b9Sdhd.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnb9Sdhdj)
That's my buddy's RC390, riding that around a parking lot is what got me thinking of owning a small sport bike in the first place.
I still would like a little R3 or something, maybe now a CBR300R won't be out of the running since I'll have the Duck to pull me along at highway speeds.
LOL, I joined a Ducati forum and it forces you to make one of those stupid "new member" posts in the section specifically for new member posts. I said I was considering "trading down" from a 2006 XB12SS to a 2000 Monster 750 and the first response was something like "You have an odd way of making friends, coming to a Ducati forum and saying you're trading DOWN to one."
There's that Ducati elitism I've heard so much about...
Dude, it's a 1203cc to a 750cc trade, it's not trading up, across, sideways, into the 5th dimension, it's a DOWNsize!
Don't worry, I'm still a GSer at heart, even if I conform to the Desmo lifestyle, start making coffee-shop runs, start wearing Dianese, and learn to speak Italian so I can read the factory service manual, I won't ever claim my Ducati is some pinnacle of engineering and the standard to which all others should be compared. I know better.
It's a nice bike, it's freaking cool, and wasn't cheap back when it was new. But it's hardly some god-status machine...
Quote from: Watcher on April 09, 2017, 11:00:50 PM
... even if I conform to the Desmo lifestyle, start making coffee-shop runs, start wearing Dianese, and learn to speak Italian so I can read the factory service manual, I won't ever claim my Ducati is some pinnacle of engineering and the standard to which all others should be compared. I know better.
It's a nice bike, it's freaking cool, and wasn't cheap back when it was new. But it's hardly some god-status machine...
That's what they all say. Sooner or later, you'll end up talking like this:
jk, obviously lol
Gotta go get my Ducati Biscotti!
Looks great Watcher!!! I love your description of the stock windscreen lol and that vid cracked me up :laugh:
Went up the mountain, holy HELL is this thing flickable! Buell was supposed to be a pinnacle of handling because of the weight centering and such, but the Duc feels like it's about 100 pounds lighter, but the reality is it's only 10 pounds lighter!
Accidentally did a burnout, that hydraulic clutch doesn't take much to go from nothing, to friction zone, to full bite. I'll get used to it soon enough.
GP shift is interesting, too. Didn't take me as long to get used to it as I would have though. It'll still take time to train my emergency reactions but for normal riding it's become habitual in just a few hours.
The Buell was easy to go fast on, but THIS is the bike that will get me in trouble! It's so easy to be aggressive on, it begs to tear up the streets!
More pictures! Went up the mountain to the same spot I got my Buell avatar, there was a bicyclist who was kind enough to offer to take a picture of me with it, so that's legit.
Also got the Facebook picture game out of the way.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/Wzzn7Y.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnWzzn7Yj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/3vB2GZ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pn3vB2GZj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/924/UEFgl2.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poUEFgl2j)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/wA9p4g.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmwA9p4gj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/HlEttR.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnHlEttRj)
(Gonna show a bit of my girly side here for a minute) but it makes my heart happy to know that bike will now be getting out and ridden... it gets to shine in the sun and have a blast going all over the place :D
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on April 10, 2017, 03:31:10 PM
(Gonna show a bit of my girly side here for a minute) but it makes my heart happy to know that bike will now be getting out and ridden... it gets to shine in the sun and have a blast going all over the place :D
The same goes for me. Motorcycles are made to be ridden, not be a conversation piece (but maybe they can be both?).
The Japanese believe that everything has its own kokoro (heart), and with it a sense of purpose and belonging. Much in that way, it would make the motorcycle happy to be ridden, l as it makes me happy to ride.
No other relationship between man and machine is as intimate as the motorcycle (maybe a jetpack), and having ridden so many bikes over such a relatively short period of time it's interesting to note that each bike has its own character and way it wants to be ridden, even withing the same make/model.
This Ducati seems really eager, like a caged falcon ready to take to the sky, it wants to Go Go Go and not hold back! It would make sense, it's finally being allowed to do what it was made for.
I haven't responded in this thread until now as I am fully aware of how biased my response would've been.
Glad to see you out enjoying your new Duc. Just don't get too wrapped up in the whole "Ducati" world where everything about Ducatis is the absolute pinnacle of design and engineering (it sounds like you aren't). I must admit I'm a bit sad to see you leave the Buell behind as I absolutely love them. No doubt the guy you swapped it to is happy as they never seem to change hands that often.
Enjoy the new bike mate.
Quote from: 1018cc on April 11, 2017, 02:03:14 AM
...
Just don't get too wrapped up in the whole "Ducati" world where everything about Ducatis is the absolute pinnacle of design and engineering (it sounds like you aren't).
...
The just have a unique feel bro. So much... character. You wouldn't understand. *bites Ducati biscotti*
The Monster is just so much more... Exclusive.
The Buells are rarer, but that's not the same thing.
:icon_rolleyes:
I posted a farewell (but not goodbye) on my Buell page and was surprised at the amount of support I got. A lot of the Buell owners were like "Yeah, man, it was between a Duc and a Buell but I ended up with a Buell. Hope you like it!" or "The wife has a Duc since a Firebolt was too tall for her, it's a good bike." or "You're dead to me..." or "I have one of each! You'll like it!" or "Have fun! Ducs are more problematic than Buells are!"
:cheers:
I never understood a vehicle that, for the most part isn't really all that expensive compared to other options, comes with a "lifestyle".
I mean, the 2017 Ducati Monster 797 is like $9k. That's about as much as a Yamaha FZ09... So it's not even really a "rich blood" situation, anyone who financed a middle-level Japanese bike can finance a Ducati...
I don't get caught up in all that BS, I just ride. It doesn't really matter what I ride, so long as I continue to.
But to all of you tuning in here, if you DO see me starting to head down the path to the Desmo side, please slap me :2guns:
Quote from: Watcher on April 11, 2017, 07:27:35 AM
...
I mean, the 2017 Ducati Monster 797 is like $9k. That's about as much as a Yamaha FZ09... So it's not even really a "rich blood" situation, anyone who financed a middle-level Japanese bike can finance a Ducati...
...
Maybe sportbikes are a different situation but a base Panigale is like $9K more than GSX-R1000R. I think this is where Ducati gets the reputation for being more expensive. You could buy a a GSX-R1000R AND a Monster for the same price as a Panigale lol.
Ducati Panigale 1299 S: $25,795.00 (The Panigale R is even more)
Suzuki GSX-R1000R: $16,999.000
I see what you're saying. But the Panigale is also a premium level superbike more akin to the R1M, which is over $20k.
But I think it's best compared to a ZX14R or Hayabusa based on engine size and both of those bikes are... Only $15k really?
Ducati also has a SuperSport series in the current lineup which is more alike to the 1000 sport bikes, that is hovering around $10-15k.
And the Multistrata isn't far off from the BMW and KTM adventure offerings.
Ducati on average IS more expensive, but for the most part it's not like Ferrari is to Chevrolet...
Quote from: Watcher on April 11, 2017, 12:23:57 PM
I see what you're saying. But the Panigale is also a premium level superbike more akin to the R1M, which is over $20k.
R1M is probably getting closer in terms of "premium level superbike" so that's totally a fair comparison. But, both those bikes compete in the same class as the GSXR-1000R which is thousands of dollars cheaper. Although, the GSX-1000R is probably less "premium" so I'll give you that.
Quote
But I think it's best compared to a ZX14R or Hayabusa based on engine size and both of those bikes are... Only $15k really?
Based on displacement alone, yes. But the ZX-14R and the Hayabusa are big sport touring/drag bikes, and the Panigale is a superbike. Its definitely in the same overall class as the GSXR-1000R, CBR1000R, ZX-10R, and R1M. I mean, its what Ducati races in World Superbike alongside all the Japanese bikes I just named...
Quote
Ducati also has a SuperSport series in the current lineup which is more alike to the 1000 sport bikes, that is hovering around $10-15k.
And the Multitask isn't far off from the BMW and KTM adventure offerings.
Despite the name, the SuperSport is actually more alone the lines of the GSX-S1000F in terms of "class". Its a more upright sport-standard kind of bike. That one's pricing is more in line with other bikes in its class, for sure if it only costs $15K.
And honestly, I have no idea if the MultiStrada and HyperStrada are close in price to other ADV or Supermoto bikes, respectively.
Quote
Ducati on average IS more expensive, but for the most part it's not like Ferrari is to Chevrolet...
Agree completely.
I read an article this morning claiming that VW is considering selling off Ducati. No word on possible buyers, but it's always interesting with a big name manufacturer changes ownership...
http://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/could-ducati-be-up-for-sale-again.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/could-ducati-be-up-for-sale-again.html)
I heard about that.
A bunch of guys on my Buell forum have a feeling that if Hero buys it then they'll end up dead. Hero owned a 49% stake in EBR, and that ended really well...
But, EBR and even Buell was a relatively unknown name. Ducati has worldwide recognition, even with non-riders. So long as whoever buys Ducati leaves well enough alone I don't think there will be any major worries.
if whoever buys ducatti lowers maitnence costs i might buy one 8)
Quote from: Watcher on April 28, 2017, 08:16:43 AM
I heard about that.
A bunch of guys on my Buell forum have a feeling that if Hero buys it then they'll end up dead. Hero owned a 49% stake in EBR, and that ended really well...
But, EBR and even Buell was a relatively unknown name. Ducati has worldwide recognition, even with non-riders. So long as whoever buys Ducati leaves well enough alone I don't think there will be any major worries.
Right...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Quote from: dominickbuff on April 28, 2017, 08:46:36 AM
if whoever buys ducatti lowers maitnence costs i might buy one 8)
Just do it all yourself...
I've got my first valve service in 1200 miles or so. I'll let you know how hard it was.
kk keep me posted on that