After I get my fuel line fixed, I thinking of listing my bike locally to see if I get any interest. I'd consider selling it if I break even on it (including the sales tax I paid). I like the bike, and I know many would say it's the perfect size for me right now, having just started over with bikes just 2 months ago. The GS500 is light and forgiving, etc. However, I'm thinking that I'd like to have just slightly more weight and power. I'm not a huge guy (6', 215lbs), but I'm thinking just a little bit more power would be nice and I live in the midwest where it's super windy. So, perhaps a little more weight would help? It has seemed to already from my past bike.
I previously had a 250 dual sport...it had 11hp and weighed just over 200lbs...I got one of those China bikes. I was lured by the thought of having a new bike for just over $1000. The thing was a total POS. I sold it as fast as I could (my review on that should go on a different thread...I'd love to write it up if you all are curious about those crappy bikes).
My point is that GS500 is a HUGE step up from that bike, and I do enjoy riding it. However, it needs a few things like a new windscreen (the stock one sucks) and handlebar risers). I feel like the windscreen is engineered perfectly to put the wind directly at my chest/throat level (nice)...I'm thinking before I dump money in those items, maybe it would be worth it to check out the viability of swapping this bike for another. From my searching online, it looks like a new windscreen (Zero Gravity Touring) will be about $85 and handlebar risers are another $80 or so. Most of my riding is open roads in the midwest...read...wide open corn fields with cross wind...and I've been riding it to work which is about 45 miles each way :D
I almost went with a 250 Ninja and I'm so glad I didn't. But, what about a 600 or a 750?
Any opinions on the matter? Any suggestions for a comparable 600 or 750?
Thanks,
Quote from: ski_rush on May 09, 2017, 04:05:46 AM
I got one of those China bikes. I was lured by the thought of having a new bike for just over $1000. The thing was a total POS. I sold it as fast as I could (my review on that should go on a different thread...I'd love to write it up if you all are curious about those crappy bikes).
That would be super interesting to read lol.
Quote
Any opinions on the matter? Any suggestions for a comparable 600 or 750?
What style of bike do you want to upgrade to? Sport touring? Cruiser? There are tons of bikes in that displacement/power range but which is right for you depends a lot on your personal preferences.
If you're looking for something similar to the GS (standard, but slightly sporty) but with a little more "oomph" you could look into the Suzuki GSX650F or SV650. Both are bigger and more powerful than the GS500, but not to a degree that would be scary. Outside of Suzuki, the Kawasaki Ninja 650 would probably hit some of the same marks (although, it has a bit sportier ergos, so that might not be what you want). Honda's NC700 series has some bikes that might interest you as well.
Heck yea,...really interested in your chinese turd review!
Rocket 3 all the way! Save all the disappointment and frustration. Cubes and weight, you know it makes sense :icon_mrgreen:
What about the GS do you like? I think that will get you pretty far in answering your own question.
I do a lot of riding on Indiana farm roads, so I totally know where you're coming from. For me, by next month the winds will have died down enough to be manageable. I don't think the other bikes qc mentioned in the 600-750cc range are really considerably heavier than the GS, but the extra power might help with combating the wind.
Quote from: cbrfxr67 on May 09, 2017, 07:03:07 AM
Heck yea,...really interested in your chinese turd review!
Chinese turd...that about sums it up. I'll definitely do a review. I've been wanting to anyway to hopefully prevent others from making the same mistake I did...I got rid of it, thankfully, but others have been stuck with their inoperable China turds and flushing $1000 down the toilet.
Quote from: rscottlow on May 09, 2017, 07:19:32 AM
What about the GS do you like? I think that will get you pretty far in answering your own question.
Likes1. Sporty looks; I prefer bikes with fairings. I'm not into the "naked" look much or cruisers (they all look alike to me)
2. Light, nimble
3. Power is very manageable for a new'ish rider
4. Fairly upright seating position so I'm not having to lay down on the bike.
Dislikes1. Feels like it needs just a touch more power...maybe I'm too fat. Just kidding. I'm 215lbs, but I do think it needs a little more mmphhh...
2. Tires are kind of skinny looking.
I hope that the GS500 looks large enough for me. I test drove a Ninja 250 years ago and I felt like I was riding a pocket bike. I mean...it did get up to 70mph with me on it just fine, it just seemed to really work to do it.
I had a china bike before I got my GS. It was a Lifan GY5 200cc dual sport. I have to say it was the best $1300 I've spent on a NEW bike. I didn't off-road it much so the frame/shocks/etc. didn't get much abuse. However I'd wind that little sucker out to 60mph on the highway every day for years and never had a problem. The motor was rock solid. I sold it with over 8k miles on the clock. I did a lot of research before I got mine and all china bikes are not created equal. American Lifan imported some of the better ones. Roketa is another better one. Beware as they all look the same of you don't know what to look for.
I would do it again.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d167/ironhse/CIMG0216.jpg) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ironhse/media/CIMG0216.jpg.html)
skii i currently have a honda rebel 250cc and i weigh almost as much as the bike :D
thats why im looking to buy a gs500f because i should be able to go highway speed
Quote from: ski_rush on May 09, 2017, 07:59:31 AM
Likes
1. Sporty looks; I prefer bikes with fairings. I'm not into the "naked" look much or cruisers (they all look alike to me)
2. Light, nimble
3. Power is very manageable for a new'ish rider
4. Fairly upright seating position so I'm not having to lay down on the bike.
Dislikes
1. Feels like it needs just a touch more power...maybe I'm too fat. Just kidding. I'm 215lbs, but I do think it needs a little more mmphhh...
2. Tires are kind of skinny looking.
Suzuki GSX650F, Kawasaki Ninja 650, Yamaha FZ6R
Quote from: ski_rush on May 09, 2017, 07:59:31 AM
...
4. Fairly upright seating position so I'm not having to lay down on the bike.
Dislikes
1. Feels like it needs just a touch more power...maybe I'm too fat. Just kidding. I'm 215lbs, but I do think it needs a little more mmphhh...
Do you shift too early? I mean, my GS500 is extremely quick if you have the nerve to rev it to 10K. It is docile and might convince you it's "underpowered" if you shift at 7K.
Quote
2. Tires are kind of skinny looking.
I can't really comment on your aesthetic preferences.
I just wonder if it's not low-end torque you are looking for, rather than horsepower.
I'd suggest a SV650S or a Ninja 650. They will have more torque and a bit more horsepower but you will pay a lot more for one than a GS500. If you are really in love with low end torque and don't rev above 7K rpms maybe find a Buell. But all of these are going to be significantly more money. You'll have to some research to figure out which ones are that much heavier. Again I can't really understand the desire for a heavier bike, but I ride in the "hill country" where quick turns and peppy acceleration up hills makes all the difference in the world.
BTW I'm a hair under 6'0" and was 216lb this morning. And BTW also my GS500 will blow away my dad's Shadow 750, which is >100lb heavier, 50% more displacement, more low end torque and less power. But I think that Shadow is more stable in the cross wind due to the weight and especially the weight being so low (everything is low on a cruiser). In fact I'm pretty sure my GS500 will blow away just about any factory-built cruiser, especially if there's a turn. I'm not sure where on the street you really need to get to 60mph in significantly under 4.5 seconds or go on sustained cruising at over 90mph, but if that's you, then by all means, you need more power.
Quote from: mr72 on May 09, 2017, 09:15:15 AM
Do you shift too early? I mean, my GS500 is extremely quick if you have the nerve to rev it to 10K. It is docile and might convince you it's "underpowered" if you shift at 7K.
I'm not sure where on the street you really need to get to 60mph in significantly under 4.5 seconds or go on sustained cruising at over 90mph, but if that's you, then by all means, you need more power.
I am perhaps shifting too early. I know I'm definitely shifting before 7k. I will try revving it more and see what I think.
And, no, I don't need to go 60mph in under 4 seconds, nor do I want to do 90mph for a sustained cruising...too old for that... :wink:
When I had my GSs I weighed about 220-230, also 6'0", and it never really disappointed me in the power department. I lived in the Midwest as well and commuted about 30-40 minutes by expressway. The wind pushes you around but there's really no avoiding that at all, unless your bike is hollow so the wind passes through it or it weighs as much as a car. Every bike I've had has been pushed about by large gusts. No doubt a 250 is bad, but the GS was on par with my Ducati Monster and CB500F for highway stability. The Buell I had was a little better, and it wasn't really a heavy bike, but a low center of gravity surely helped.
That being said, I'm inclined to say that you've owned the bike entirely not long enough.
I get that feeling of not enough power, but the GS really can give it where you need it. If you aren't comfortable with the bike you won't ever be tapping into it's real potential, and I don't really mean ergonomics, I mean just general bike bonding, and that takes time and miles.
I've been known to chase 600s and keep up in turns both on my GS and my CB, and while it doesn't have the raw power those bikes have it doesn't fit the supersport profile either. It's more sensible to commute on, more responsible in town, and can potentially get better fuel economy than alternatives.
If you're willing to do a little work, then the GS can come alive with just a rejet, even more with a better air filter and exhaust. That being said, there is no replacement for displacement so if you feel like it's too slow then maybe a different bike will work better for you. But be wary because for a lot of people the feeling of too slow is hard to satiate and before you know it you'll be on a bike that really is too much to handle.
As far as the comfort aspect, a hard reality is if you switch to, say, an FZ6R you might still be too hunched over and have the windshield deflect into your face. And now not only will you be spending the money to fit this bike to you, but you likely spent more on a different bike and are further in the hole financially.
But there are ways to cut cost. Instead of $80 risers you can go with some $20 handlebars that are taller, for example. Not all options will fit a GS without longer cables and brake lines but dirt-bike bars seem to be drop on and offer a slightly more upright body position.
But if you're dead set on a similar bike with slightly more power I'd suggest searching for the following.
Suzuki:
GSF600 "Bandit"
SV650/SV650S
VStrom650
GSX-S650Z
Honda:
CB500F/CB500X/CBR500R
NC700X
CB650F (new bike, maybe not available yet)
Yamaha:
FZ6
FZ6R
FZ07
XJ6 (maybe not available USA)
Kawasaki:
ER6N
Ninja 650
Z650 (new bike, maybe not available yet)
Versys 650
And maybe even an older Ducati Monster ~600 if you feel up for a little more involved maintenance.
Instead of a Vstrom 650, get the 1000, but don't get the SV1000, instead of the SV650. First gen SV650s will always have a place in my heart. really late models they had done some REALLY funky stuff to make the bikes make the EPA regs. like having two spark plugs on a single cylinder...
what im looking at for a new bike personally is -
aprilia caponord 1200
or
the 2018 Suzuki Vstrom 1000.
I live in florida, LOTS OF highways and straight roads here too. with the occasional hurricane. :D ;)
Quote from: ski_rush on May 09, 2017, 10:37:13 AM
I am perhaps shifting too early. I know I'm definitely shifting before 7k. I will try revving it more and see what I think.
And, no, I don't need to go 60mph in under 4 seconds, nor do I want to do 90mph for a sustained cruising...too old for that... :wink:
Yeah try revving. Everything comes alive at 8k. I bet you don't need a bigger bike after all.
Quote from: Watcher on May 09, 2017, 10:55:15 AM
And maybe even an older Ducati Monster ~600 if you feel up for a little more involved maintenance.
Lots of good advice Watcher.
But an m600 doesn't have any more power than a GS. Might be 10 lb lighter. And the OP wants fairings. Really a gs500e is kind of a reliable Japanese M600.
I sure like the looks of the Duc though. I'd swap my GS straight across for an M600. I'm good at maintenance.
All very sound advice. I like the Bandit and the GSX. I think I'm going to spend some time with the bike to: 1) fix fuel line, 2) replace factory links to raise the bike to factory height, 3) change oil to synthetic, 4) and any other general maintenance that's mentioned in the new service manual I ordered.
The most important thing right now fixing the fuel lines. Can't sell it with that going on...
I live in a pretty windy place.. and there are some rather interesting days when it gets to 100kph / 60Mph cross wind gusts. I have practiced leaning off and am now used to "catching" the bike back in the gusts. you do get the odd day when it gusts over 150 k / 90Mph and yep, the GS is just too light and it trys to wander over a lane...
One of the guys here has a Bandit (2k15 1250cc) and he hardly notices the wind at all despite the fairings. The overall size between our bikes is pretty similar (the GS is about 50mm shorter than the bandit) but the bandit is 32kg heavier - most of that is the engine block and it is a bit lower than the GS - most likely why it is more stable. The Bandit does drink about twice as much fuel for a similar commute though..
I replaced the factory windscreen with a zero G touring one, and put handlebar risers on - that made a big difference to comfort and noise reduction (the factory seat isn't so good long distance - but that seems to be an affliction with sports style bikes).
With the costs of registration and the like here I will probably stick with my GS a while - I have looked at a GSX 650F - think its about 20kg heavier than the GS - possibly going to be similar to the bandit with a bit of extra weight down low and about +30HP with injection.
Quote from: mr72 on May 09, 2017, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: Watcher on May 09, 2017, 10:55:15 AM
And maybe even an older Ducati Monster ~600 if you feel up for a little more involved maintenance.
Lots of good advice Watcher.
But an m600 doesn't have any more power than a GS. Might be 10 lb lighter.
According to this website (http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/index.htm) (which who knows how accurate but at least it's a consistent source), the GS500E makes about 45HP/29LB-FT and weighs 381 dry. The M600 makes about 53/35 and weighs 383.
So it's a mild increase, and it reaches peak power at a lower RPM which can change how much pull the motorcycle seems to have.
It's also geared way different, 6 speed vs 5 speed.
According to the same site standing 1/4 mile for the GS is about 15 seconds @ 85mph. M600 is 12.5 @ 102.
But no fairings...
I upgraded from a GS500 (after riding it for 3 or 4 years) straight to a 1000 sports tourer. I've been riding that bike now for 9 years and enjoyed the choice.
I'm 150lb and it weighs 530 (iirc). I don't find the extra weight an issue at all. In fact I quite like the big bike feel: very sure and sturdy in lumpy corners when riding in the mountains on day rides. Though I also have to point out that a more modern, higher tier bike will also have better suspension etc than the GS so that might also account for some of it. It's physically larger too in terms of dimensions, but I still happily commute to work through the city on it and have no problems lane filtering, etc through the slow moving traffic.
The things that I liked immediately from making the switch are:
- Power in all gears at all rev ranges. It pulls like a train. Sure you can ride in the power band and the GS will respond with quite some spirit, but it can also be nice on longer rides to not have to sit buzzing in a lower gear and to not have to hunt around through the gears into a corner, out of a corner, up a hill, down the other side, etc. It's nice to have the choice to do that when you feel sporty and really attack, or just settle down and plod along.
- More modern features. Fuel injection, uprated suspension, twin discs up front, abs, hydraulic clutch, etc. These are all nice things to have that come with an upgrade.
- A 4 cylinder bike is very smooth compared to the GS twin.
There are some cons that spring to mind (minor but worth mentioning):
- The GS is a much easier bike to work on if you like to do maintenance yourself. Modern bikes are really packaged tightly. For me to replace the spark plugs (especially the centre two) involves taking all the fairings off, lifting the tank, rerouting hoses, disconnecting the ignition coils, removing brackets and even then you need to be a contortionist to get your hand in and manipulate a specialist tool that will get you into the deep plug sockets.
- If I give the right wrist a bit I use as much fuel as my small car.
- Tyres are a bit more expensive because they're bigger and sportier.
- It costs money to upgrade (obviously).
Quote from: Watcher on May 09, 2017, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: mr72 on May 09, 2017, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: Watcher on May 09, 2017, 10:55:15 AM
And maybe even an older Ducati Monster ~600 if you feel up for a little more involved maintenance.
Lots of good advice Watcher.
But an m600 doesn't have any more power than a GS. Might be 10 lb lighter.
According to this website (http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/index.htm) (which who knows how accurate but at least it's a consistent source), the GS500E makes about 45HP/29LB-FT and weighs 381 dry. The M600 makes about 53/35 and weighs 383.
Other sources I read indicate the M600 has 43hp and GS500 51hp. So I suppose the sources vary. Maybe there are differences in the bikes delivered according to geography.
For example, this site (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/downloads/carmotorcycleperformancecharts1.htm) quotes the following numbers:
M600 46hp 13.7 sec 1/4 mile
gs500e 51hp 14.2 sec 1/4 mile
Any way you look at it, I think this says performance-wise, the two bikes are comparable if not very close. There would be little point in swapping for performance reasons alone. Now, like I said before, I'd swap over aesthetic reasons. Maybe a hint of "cool factor".
Quote
... it reaches peak power at a lower RPM which can change how much pull the motorcycle seems to have.
Yes, my suggestion about "low-end torque" applies here. If you don't rev it, regardless of power, the bike that generates its torque lower in the rev range is going to be quicker and feel a lot quicker.
lol, i did the opposite... I moved "down" from 750, which admittedly was quicker, but it was also way heavier and not as fun to ride. I'm a smaller guy though, so your milage may vary! :) best of luck with whatever you decide.
Quote from: Torstein on May 10, 2017, 07:52:51 AM
lol, i did the opposite... I moved "down" from 750, which admittedly was quicker, but it was also way heavier and not as fun to ride.
I went from 500cc to 1200cc to 750cc.
The power was fun but actually a little boring for me. I missed being able to crack that throttle way open and not immediately get in trouble for it.
Plus better gas mileage, and a more nimble chassis.
First of all I congratulate you for starting on the GS. That makes you smarter than about 90% of the riders I meet. And I meet a lot of them.
Second, your bike will happily rev to the red line all day long. Seriously. To the red line. At full throttle. All day long. Do that for awhile and see if it satisfies your need for speed.
Eventually it won't, so you will need to move on. My advice is to ride the GS this season while saving your pennies. Save up $4000 over the winter and buy an early-2000s 600cc sportbike next spring. The performance you can get out of a $4000 600cc bike will astound, amaze, and appall you. The first time you pass 100 mph in second gear at full throttle you'll be thinking, "OMFG, this can't be legal!" It's great.
Quote from: Jim Moore on May 11, 2017, 03:34:31 AM
. Do that for awhile and see if it satisfies your need for speed.
Eventually it won't, so you will need to move on. My advice is to ride the GS this season while saving your pennies. Save up $4000 over the winter and buy an early-2000s 600cc sportbike next spring.
If you take this advice then the only thing I will add is be sure and fill out your organ donor card.
Quote from: mr72 on May 11, 2017, 05:18:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Moore on May 11, 2017, 03:34:31 AM
. Do that for awhile and see if it satisfies your need for speed.
Eventually it won't, so you will need to move on. My advice is to ride the GS this season while saving your pennies. Save up $4000 over the winter and buy an early-2000s 600cc sportbike next spring.
If you take this advice then the only thing I will add is be sure and fill out your organ donor card.
Really? I thought spending a year on the GS then moving up to a 600 was a pretty good idea.
Quote from: Jim Moore on May 11, 2017, 03:34:31 AM
If you take this advice then the only thing I will add is be sure and fill out your organ donor card.
I am also not understanding this comment. Why would I "need to fill out an organ donor card" for moving to a 600cc sport bike after a year of riding the GS500? That comment doesn't really seem to make sense.
I will probably keep the GS for a year and move on to something larger next year. I want to take my time and also test out several bikes of different styles to see which one works best for my needs. I don't want to buy something again just to want to swap it so soon again.
Quote from: Jim Moore on May 11, 2017, 03:34:31 AM
The first time you pass 100 mph in second gear at full throttle you'll be thinking, "OMFG, this can't be legal!" It's great.
Yeah, but on public roads in the USA in nearly all cases passing 100mph in 2nd gear is not legal.
Quote from: Jim Moore on May 11, 2017, 07:10:14 AM
Really? I thought spending a year on the GS then moving up to a 600 was a pretty good idea.
I wouldn't say it's a good idea or not. I am mostly commenting on the motivation you intimate, which is that one's desire to go fast and accelerate quickly on public roadways is not satisfied with a GS500.
Now, if you had said, spend a year riding a GS500 then when you are ready to go to the track, try a 600cc sport bike which will be much faster on a racetrack, then sure thing. Sounds great. You ride that 600cc bike all the time without revving it over 8K rpm and it'll be quite similar in road-going performance as a GS500.
But you suggested that somehow it is a given that ordinary motorcyclists will get "bored" with a GS500 and then desire a faster bike. I'd say if that's your personality type, you don't belong on a motorcycle of any kind on the street; certainly not one that will fulfill a need to go 100+mph in 2nd gear and accelerate from a stop light to 100+mph in 11 seconds.
I recently wrote about this very topic on my blog.
Quote from: ski_rush on May 11, 2017, 09:00:55 AM
I will probably keep the GS for a year and move on to something larger next year.
You may spend a year with the GS500 and find that you no longer feel the need for a larger motorcycle. Or you may find that you want one that's not any more powerful but just different in some other way. Or you may do like a lot of beginners do and lay down your GS500 then scare yourself to the point that you sell it and never even look at a motorcycle again. It's not a given that you will ever need a bigger bike. Plenty of older motorcyclists with hundreds of thousands of miles under their belt and decades of experience choose to ride sub-50hp motorcycles with no regrets at all.
Quote from: mr72 on May 11, 2017, 10:30:50 AM
...
Now, if you had said, spend a year riding a GS500 then when you are ready to go to the track, try a 600cc sport bike which will be much faster on a racetrack, then sure thing. Sounds great. You ride that 600cc bike all the time without revving it over 8K rpm and it'll be quite similar in road-going performance as a GS500.
But you suggested that somehow it is a given that ordinary motorcyclists will get "bored" with a GS500 and then desire a faster bike. I'd say if that's your personality type, you don't belong on a motorcycle of any kind on the street; certainly not one that will fulfill a need to go 100+mph in 2nd gear and accelerate from a stop light to 100+mph in 11 seconds.
...
While I agree that if the only reason you want to upgrade is that you want to be able to ride like a squid, then you shouldn't be riding on public roads, I do feel the need to point out that being "faster" isn't the only thing a middleweight supersport has to offer as an upgrade from the GS. A supersport will have better brakes, better suspension, better handling, better tire options, and more rider aids (ABS, traction control, etc.). There's more to it than simply "Well, my GS500 couldn't do 120mph rolling burnouts, but my GSX-R can".
But, regarding more power, I don't think wanting a bike with more "oomph" is necessarily a bad thing. Sure, you could accomplish that feeling with similar peak power numbers, if the power is delivered lower in the rev range. But, you'd then miss out on some of the other benefits of having a supersport (given, of course, that the things a supersport offers are what you're looking for).
Quote from: mr72 on May 11, 2017, 11:01:49 AM
Plenty of older motorcyclists with hundreds of thousands of miles under their belt and decades of experience choose to ride sub-50hp motorcycles with no regrets at all.
At least one forum resident has over 100k miles and decades of experience on exactly a GS500. It's quite a capable machine.
Quote from: qcbaker on May 11, 2017, 12:16:11 PM
While I agree that if the only reason you want to upgrade is that you want to be able to ride like a squid, then you shouldn't be riding on public roads, I do feel the need to point out that being "faster" isn't the only thing a middleweight supersport has to offer as an upgrade from the GS.
Yes but this was precisely the advice that was given, and what I was responding to.
Quote
A supersport will have better brakes, better suspension, better handling, better tire options, and more rider aids (ABS, traction control, etc.).
If so it will also be a lot more expensive than a GS500.
Quote
But, regarding more power, I don't think wanting a bike with more "oomph" is necessarily a bad thing.
Neither do I, even though I am not convinced that most solo riders actually
need more power.
There are times when more power and a different chassis geometry are really a big advantage, that's for sure. I ride my GS500 at 1/3-1/2 throttle 99% of the time and shift before 8K, so you know even I can understand that if I had a bike with 20% more power I would just ride at 1/4-1/3 throttle. No big deal. Performance is the same. You need 9 hp? you use 9 hp, even if the bike can do 20, 30, 50, 100. As long as you can get what you need, then go for it. There are lots of uses for "more power" and I concede fully that the way I enjoy riding a motorcycle happens to work great with a bike like a GS500, and some folks may use their bike differently and desire more power.
But the presumption that you are going to somehow find yourself "needing" a more powerful bike after spending a year on the "beginner" GS500, like it's some kind of training-wheels thing, and then the discussion of passing 100mph in 2nd gear, well that's the talk of an immature fool. By your definition, "ride like a squid".
And I will point out that the OP did suggest one of the downsides of the GS500 is "Tires are kind of skinny looking."
Given the admitted inexperience of the OP (and no offense to the OP here... you said you have only been riding two months...) sticking with the GS500 for a while is the best advice. Your stated reason for wanting a bigger bike due to wind will not improve dramatically with something bigger unless you go with a heavy touring rig anyway. What will improve your "bike's" performance in wind is more experience. Most of what you are attributing to weaknesses in the motorcycle are actually just the fruit of inexperience with the bike. I know this because I went through it myself less than a year ago.
Check this out (https://joshkarnes.blogspot.com/2017/05/beginner-bike-musings-part-3.html), it details my thoughts more thoroughly. And spend a year learning how to ride and about yourself. The GS500 is the perfect platform for that.
Quote from: mr72 on May 12, 2017, 06:30:32 AM
Quote
A supersport will have better brakes, better suspension, better handling, better tire options, and more rider aids (ABS, traction control, etc.).
If so it will also be a lot more expensive than a GS500.
Well, yeah. But, I feel like that's to be expected when "upgrading" your bike.
Quote
Neither do I, even though I am not convinced that most solo riders actually need more power.
Most people don't even "need" a motorcycle. Barely anything is truly about what a rider "needs", its about what a rider
wants.
Quote
There are times when more power and a different chassis geometry are really a big advantage, that's for sure. I ride my GS500 at 1/3-1/2 throttle 99% of the time and shift before 8K, so you know even I can understand that if I had a bike with 20% more power I would just ride at 1/4-1/3 throttle. No big deal. Performance is the same. You need 9 hp? you use 9 hp, even if the bike can do 20, 30, 50, 100. As long as you can get what you need, then go for it. There are lots of uses for "more power" and I concede fully that the way I enjoy riding a motorcycle happens to work great with a bike like a GS500, and some folks may use their bike differently and desire more power.
I ride my GS more aggressively than you, for sure. When riding for fun (i.e. not commuting), I try not to shift until around 9-10K (not quite redline, but close) to keep the bike near peak power. It feels more responsive this way to me. I can understand wanting the bike to feel like that even when not near redline. :dunno_black:
Quote
But the presumption that you are going to somehow find yourself "needing" a more powerful bike after spending a year on the "beginner" GS500, like it's some kind of training-wheels thing, and then the discussion of passing 100mph in 2nd gear, well that's the talk of an immature fool. By your definition, "ride like a squid".
I agree with you here, since like I said earlier, barely thing concerning motorcycling is truly a "need." And yeah, proclaiming a goal of going 100mph in 2nd is squid territory. All I'm saying is, if the kind of riding you want to do is best served by a supersport, then the GS absolutely can be viewed as a beginner "training wheels" kind of bike for you. That doesn't make it a bad bike, or that it can't be a "forever bike" for someone else.
Maybe I'm biased because I plan on upgrading to a GSX-R600 next year and trying to get into track days... lol
Quote
And I will point out that the OP did suggest one of the downsides of the GS500 is "Tires are kind of skinny looking."
Given the admitted inexperience of the OP (and no offense to the OP here... you said you have only been riding two months...) sticking with the GS500 for a while is the best advice. Your stated reason for wanting a bigger bike due to wind will not improve dramatically with something bigger unless you go with a heavy touring rig anyway. What will improve your "bike's" performance in wind is more experience. Most of what you are attributing to weaknesses in the motorcycle are actually just the fruit of inexperience with the bike. I know this because I went through it myself less than a year ago.
Check this out (https://joshkarnes.blogspot.com/2017/05/beginner-bike-musings-part-3.html), it details my thoughts more thoroughly. And spend a year learning how to ride and about yourself. The GS500 is the perfect platform for that.
I agree with basically everything you said here. I'd just like to add that if the OP is getting blown around by the wind, they should try to make a conscious effort to grip the tank hard with their legs, and unweight the bars. The less downward pressure on the bars, the less accidental steering input will be given to the wheel. If you're light on the bars, you wont get blown off course as much.
Quote from: ski_rush on May 11, 2017, 09:00:55 AM
Quote from: Jim Moore on May 11, 2017, 03:34:31 AM
If you take this advice then the only thing I will add is be sure and fill out your organ donor card.
I am also not understanding this comment. Why would I "need to fill out an organ donor card" for moving to a 600cc sport bike after a year of riding the GS500? That comment doesn't really seem to make sense.
I will probably keep the GS for a year and move on to something larger next year. I want to take my time and also test out several bikes of different styles to see which one works best for my needs. I don't want to buy something again just to want to swap it so soon again.
Hey, I think you messed up the quotes a little bit. I didn't say anything about donor cards. I said 600s are awesome! Because they are!
But to be clear, I'm not endorsing high speed shenanigans on public roads. Just kidding, of course I am. OP, that's why you bought a motorcycle. Let your inner hooligan be free!
Quote from: qcbaker on May 12, 2017, 07:20:53 AM
I'd just like to add that if the OP is getting blown around by the wind, they should try to make a conscious effort to grip the tank hard with their legs, and unweight the bars. The less downward pressure on the bars, the less accidental steering input will be given to the wheel. If you're light on the bars, you wont get blown off course as much.
Maybe not grip
hard but proper posture requires your contact with the bike from the waist down bear the entire burden so your arms can remain free to move. Balls of your feet on the pegs, not the heel or arch, knees against the tank, rear positioned for a comfortable knee bend, your core holding your upper body up.
Not only will it make the bike feel "lighter", but it will be less effected by wind, bumps, and other roadway influences and follow your input more readily.
Quote from: Watcher on May 12, 2017, 10:35:06 AM
Maybe not grip hard...
Maybe "hard" was the wrong word. "Firmly" is probably better lol.
So much hate for upgrading to a larger bike! I get that this is a GS500 forum but I mustn't be the only person that looks around for a new bike just to see what's out there just because? Maybe I'll cop some flack because I can appreciate other brands / models for what they are? I'd love a Buell or a Triumph Street / Speed Triple.
More power would be nice but it'll only go as fast as you twist your wrist. I think the real upgrade comes from better suspension (which everyone knows the stock GS suspension - both ends - is ordinary at best) and the brakes. I've been on smaller bikes than the GS and their brakes feel like they pull up way better than just being slightly lighter in weight. I mostly commute everyday on my bike but I do enjoy a weekend ride to get coffee and my bike does see redline / full throttle quite often.
I think you should probably spend a bit more time on the GS / something smaller if you are just commuting every day as 2 months isn't all that long. Although if you are commuting I can see that something like better brakes wouldn't go astray as I always feel like I have to grab a handful of front brakes compared to other bikes. Its just a shame that new flash bikes with good suspension, brakes and more power cost money!
Update...I took the bike for a long ride yesterday and I made sure that I shifted at over 7000 rpms... It was a lot more fun. That said, I still feel like I could use some more low end grunt.
I originally didn't like cruisers but I'm definitely interested in testing some different style bikes. A "modern" style cruiser is growing on me.
Quote from: ski_rush on May 12, 2017, 10:04:27 PM
Update...I took the bike for a long ride yesterday and I made sure that I shifted at over 7000 rpms... It was a lot more fun. That said, I still feel like I could use some more low end grunt.
I originally didn't like cruisers but I'm definitely interested in testing some different style bikes. A "modern" style cruiser is growing on me.
V4, or Vtwin is what you're looking for... I'm a torque junkie myself, [Suzuki 2strokes from the late 90s URGGHHHH YES LOW END POWERRRR] check out the SV650, seriously...
The SV has had its day, the ER6 was the class leader, the title is now going the way of the MT-07.
Quote from: sledge on May 13, 2017, 12:21:33 AM
The SV has had its day, the ER6 was the class leader, the title is now going the way of the MT-07.
The ER6, really? It didn't seem that popular, especially not compared to the SV.
That FZ/MT-07, though, such a good bike!
Quote from: Watcher on May 13, 2017, 04:42:46 AM
That FZ/MT-07, though, such a good bike!
Yeah if only they had the XSR version of it over here...
http://www.cycleworld.com/yamaha-xsr900-is-great-but-it-isnt-bike-you-want
So let's say they do begin bringing the XSR700 to the USA, then wait about another decade, then I can buy a used one... I still think I prefer to get a Ducati Scrambler. I suppose I'm one of the only people still around who still finds air-cooled simplicity to be a benefit.
I rode the MT-07. Parallel twins will NEVER have the gut pounding torque those V twins do.
Graph.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a620/mjh937/e63d0e9ba1b64aaa812cf1a96f211c59_zps02da681e.jpg)
MT07. I bought one because it like it so much. Don't get me wrong, there is stuff to do but it is one hell of a bike.
The torque of a bike is the function of bore and stroke, not engine config. The MT07 is effectively a Vtwin ( a pretty wierd 270deg one, but not 180 or 360deg). A closefiring Vtwin is a big bang motor effectively so feels like a bigger kick but there is a big lay area between firing. The 270deg firing 07 gives you more lay than a 360deg crank twin, but not as much as a 180 deg ( like the GS500).
It is by far the lightest of the middleweight non single ( the KTM 690 is lighter).
Note the flat torque curve on the dyno graph . It isn't much good at the top of the revrange because of the camming . I have raced an ER6 AND an SV650 and the 07 has MORE torque and doesn't suffer from rear wheel lockup on overshift like a Vtwin without a slipper.
There is plenty of stuff available for the 07 now. If you like the GS500, you will love the Yammy 07 , once you sort the fuelling ( recommend a reflash of the ecu. Different smoother bike).
Very good US forum site for them with very good contributors ( FZ07.org). Like the GS500 it is becoming a bit of a cult bike. My gs500 is my tinkering project bike, My MT07 my main bike and my overtanked Husky TR650 is the bike I can't make myself get rid of just in case I find someone that wants to go adventure touring.
This is the only reasonably decent torque dyno chart I could find comparing the curves. http://www.sportrider.com/sportbikes/2014-middleweight-entry-level-sportbikes-dyno#page-2
Take it with the knowledge that the 07 is slightly bigger capacity and is specifically cammed for mid torque. All of them are capable of improvement.
Quote from: J_Walker on May 13, 2017, 11:09:00 AM
I rode the MT-07. Parallel twins will NEVER have the gut pounding torque those V twins do.
Granted EFI vs Carb but you can power-wheelie those FZs and I can't on the Monster (750cc). Well, maybe not can't, but I haven't yet, and I have goosed it pretty good.
Figured I would have on accident by now, I ride aggressively enough. Typically I'll get an accidental one coming out of a parking lot and rolling on hard to meet traffic flow or something...
That 270° crank throw basically gives the FZ a V-twin firing order. They sound mean as hell, too, that's half the fun!
I want an FZ-07 sooooo bad. I've yet to ride one, but I've sat on a couple, and I'm sold. It's everything I love about the GS, plus EFI, some extra power, and I love the looks. Unfortunately I need a new car before I can buy a new bike.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FZ07s are lacking in a few areas. Primarily the seat. Ouchies after about an hour.
The position of the key makes wind-screens a little hit or miss.
And a plastic cover over the fuel tank (plus the shape of it) limits luggage options.
But the engine is brilliant, the brakes are good, and it handles very well.
Hello Everyone,
Came back to this forum looking for advice and was surprised to stumble on this post. I currently have 2 GS500F's and a GS500E as well as an SV650S, a C50, a GSX1250FA and testing a DL1000, ride daily and have 60K on my beloved GS's - I think I might minimally qualified to comment :D.
Summary:
SV650S 1st gen - bought from a neighbor on a lark - good buy. Quick, nimble and it fits me perfect for sport touring (what?!?! you said)
C50 - handles like an empty dump truck (and I actually *like* this bike)
GSX1250FA - waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much power. Beautiful bike. Was supposed to my upgrade bike from my GSs. Wrong. Likely selling it this week.
DL1000 - in the process of testing riding one... possibly buying it if I can figure out how to stop being narcissistic (these things are so ugly in my opinion).
I have come to the conclusion that Suzuki does not really have an upgrade plan for us. If you are looking for an upgrade from the GS, you are likely going to be disappointed on some level (looks, comfort, price/fun, etc). The GS500E/F is just a damn good bike. Why Suzuki has not released a fuel injected, twin in this size is beyond me.
My suggestion, mod the heck out of the one you have and if you can get a used SV for the hooligan days. Get some good bags, a windshield and the risers (I'd sell mine if I could find them). I can easily ride my GS500F 400+ miles in a day.
I am taking my own suggestion and going back to my roots.
Quote from: myersg11 on May 14, 2017, 10:16:21 AM
Hello Everyone,
Came back to this forum looking for advice and was surprised to stumble on this post. I currently have 2 GS500F's and a GS500E as well as an SV650S, a C50, a GSX1250FA and testing a DL1000, ride daily and have 60K on my beloved GS's - I think I might minimally qualified to comment :D.
Summary:
SV650S 1st gen - bought from a neighbor on a lark - good buy. Quick, nimble and it fits me perfect for sport touring (what?!?! you said)
C50 - handles like an empty dump truck (and I actually *like* this bike)
GSX1250FA - waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much power. Beautiful bike. Was supposed to my upgrade bike from my GSs. Wrong. Likely selling it this week.
DL1000 - in the process of testing riding one... possibly buying it if I can figure out how to stop being narcissistic (these things are so ugly in my opinion).
I have come to the conclusion that Suzuki does not really have an upgrade plan for us. If you are looking for an upgrade from the GS, you are likely going to be disappointed on some level (looks, comfort, price/fun, etc). The GS500E/F is just a damn good bike. Why Suzuki has not released a fuel injected, twin in this size is beyond me.
My suggestion, mod the heck out of the one you have and if you can get a used SV for the hooligan days. Get some good bags, a windshield and the risers (I'd sell mine if I could find them). I can easily ride my GS500F 400+ miles in a day.
I am taking my own suggestion and going back to my roots.
DL1000, known as THE VSTROM. if you get it you will love it..! those engines platforms are WAYY better then the GS engines, they just need less maintenance and "tuning", really why I like them.
I too have done 400 mile days on the GS.. I'm never gonna say it CANT be done, there's folks out there who've done across Europe trips on 50cc bikes, or across the outback [god that would be SOOO Boring]
if you're looking at a NEW vstrom [not the used market] take a look at the 2018 one, and take a look at the aprilia caponord 1200. as I'm in the same boat as you, looking for a new bike, mainly a bigger highway bike.
the 2018 VStrom is gonna be cheaper then the caponord. and the Vstrom is going to ALWAYS be cheaper on part replacement then anything aprilia. The Vstrom I fear is going to have "suzuki suspension" aka Pretty bare bones.. from what I've read and studied the caponord seems to have the better deal on the suspension. Of course its not "out" yet but if suzuki offers a package for touring hardware/luggage stuff, that'd be great depending how much it adds to the final price. but the caponord pretty much comes with what I want, without any added cost. Both bikes lack on available colors - what happened to that anyway? back not that long ago you could get a motorcycle in like 8 different colors most came in at least 4.. now days you're lucky to get 2!
Final thoughts though, the Vstrom will be cheaper on repairs in the long run. The caponord comes with all the packages
I'm looking for, stock. Both will be good highway bikes. if the caponord or Vstrom came in shaft drive instead of chain, that would seal the package for one or the other to be honest.
The wheelieing of the 07 is a function of it's poor ecu fuel control. Once reflashed it is smoother and doesn't chuck the wheel skyward every time you open the throttle from fully closed. It will still wheelie, just when you want it to , rather than a random event. It also will have more power and use less fuel. If you live in place3s with inane polltuion checking get the Yammaha Akra Ti "OEM" otherwise a lighter exhaust and the bike sounds superb. I have the Akra Carbon.
The seat is in fact AWEFUL. Not as bad as a BMWF800R but aweful. I replaced it with a Seat Concepts pad and cover. As good as you could ask for. Remember this is NOT and expensive bike , and anything you spend on it and it will still be relatively cheap.
The biggest problem for touring the 07 is the princess tiny tank. Despite the excellent fuel economy 14L only takes you a bit under 300km.
The DL is infact a superb tourer, but be aware, it is insanely heavy compared to the 07 and the GS and the weight it carried high. Can be a bit of a surprise when your tired legs give way when getting off after a long ride ( seen it happen....TWICE). It also has a nice big tank. I do think the smaller new model 650 is a better bike though. They do suffer from rear wheel lockup if you over downshift.
The biggest problem with trying to tour on little bikes is not just the power ( and the suspension) but the usual tiny fuel tanks. 50 cc is too small for highway speeds though. HP for upright seated touring is about 10hp to do 100kph. Few 50 have that. I suspect you could tour on a CB125R because it is faired so needs less HP. With an exhaust and a power commander you can easaily get 15HP out of it ( my old commuterlite class bike). That will sit you easily at 100kph and 11L tank will get you way over 300km ( insane fuel economy even at full race pace).
Which ever you will realize that the ancient GS500 was a bit of a masterpiece when it was built, when it comes to a touring bike. Capacity, fuel range, ergonomics, good fairing( F), kept the old frame design that allows decent attachment of luggage. It suffers from poor suspension ( fixable, so does pretty much everything except true sports bikes). It's heavier than it should be ( see my project on weight reductions). It needs good fuel injection and watercooling to bring it into the 20teenies.
Maybe a thread on what a range of GS500's should be for now?
Get the right bike and you won't miss it, but you will appreciate how good a bike it is, designed in the mid eighties as a commuter/tourer.