Soooo I'm soon going to be changing the oil pan gasket on my GS as well as put in a new filter blah blah. Saw this on Motosport... new item. Wanted to ask if anyone has tried it?
http://www.motosport.com/suzuki-ecstar-r5000-mineral-oil
http://www.motosport.com/suzuki-ecstar-r7000-semisynthetic
And of course, opinions are welcome... too "fancy" for the GS? Just go with something cheaper? Something bad about it that I'm missing?
So far I've always used Valvoline and Castrol... but neither of those are on the site and I'd like to just buy everything I need from one place.
Happy Wednesday everybody :cheers:
IDK about either of those but I've done 2K miles on my GS with Rotella T6 and it seems to work just fine and it's a fraction of the price of the Suzuki oil... and a full synthetic (or you can get T5 synth blend or T2/3/4 conventional).
This is certain to spawn a lot of debate.
I use either the motorcycle stuff off the shelf at advanced auto [20w-50] or what ever the cheap Kawasaki branded stuff at one of the nearest dealerships use.
Quote from: mr72 on July 12, 2017, 12:51:02 PM
This is certain to spawn a lot of debate.
Oh I totally know what you mean! I've read enough of those kinds of threads over the years... and honestly debated whether or not to even ask my question cuz so often it turns into going way off topic....
BUT I took a shot anyway. I'm thinking about buying it but just wanted some input first.
Any good quality synthetic ( full) JASO certified oil will be good at the recommended viscosity ( unless your environment dictates otherwise). In an aircooled motor such as this, it is more temp stable than mineral and semi synth and will stay lubricating for longer.
I am a fan of Penrite. Do not use friction modifier additive oil as it stuffs wet clutches.
On a side note there was a very good debate between oil engineers on a US Ducati site a couple of years ago where they ALL recomended full synth oils for diesel cars and light trucks, as it is cheaper and last longer ( more stable) and will not hurt wet clutches.
Thank you so much gregjet :thumb:
They do have a fully synthetic too. http://www.motosport.com/suzuki-ecstar-r9000-full-synthetic
I like the temp stable bit... because I ride in all temperatures, from as hot as it gets here (mostly in the upper 80s F) down to in the teens.
I don't put as many miles on my bike as I'd really like to tbh :cry: I spend all my spare time working on projects... so that's kinda why I don't feel too bad about spending more $$ on oil... I don't put the miles on to be changing it a lot.
Motul 300 V , ran bike to bullhead in 117 degree temperature , gs500 never missed a beat :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: Motul 300 V
ive used regular car oil ( synthetic) on my gs' over the years. the 1st 97, the 93, the second 97 (owned twice) and a 96. i believe all are still in running condition. i had seen the 97 i put the gsxr wedge can on recently. anyhoo back on topic. many of us have used car oils, many have used bike oils. the point is, if you like what you see and are willing to pay the price, ( id say keep an extra quart in backpack for backup use.) if it is the proper viscosity, then go for it. and if now one here has used it, wed welcome your evaluation of it. :)
Aaron
I use diesel engine oil that is rated for wet clutches. Haven't had any dramas with it and it is heaps cheaper than motorcycle engine oil.
I'm sure the Suzuki stuff is just fine, even better if full synthetic. Jury might be out on whether it's better than rotella or worth 3-4x the price, plus rotella is available at Walmart. Is rotella good enough? Probably. Is the Suzuki stuff better? Possibly. IMHO with no data to back it up.
My thoughts on oil are basically that for most people it doesn't really matter, as long as the oil you choose is the right viscosity rating for your environment and the oil has no friction modifiers. You probably won't see a significant difference between using the cheapest option and the most expensive option. I'm not saying there wont be any differences, just not any that you would notice in your day-to-day riding. If you were tracking the bike or doing significant touring (hundreds of miles in a single trip), then maybe some of the more expensive oils would be "worth it."
Very similar to my opinion on chain lubes lol.
Quote from: qcbaker on July 13, 2017, 04:33:43 AM
My thoughts on oil are basically that for most people it doesn't really matter, as long as the oil you choose is the right viscosity rating for your environment and the oil has no friction modifiers. You probably won't see a significant difference between using the cheapest option and the most expensive option. I'm not saying there wont be any differences, just not any that you would notice in your day-to-day riding. If you were tracking the bike or doing significant touring (hundreds of miles in a single trip), then maybe some of the more expensive oils would be "worth it."
Very similar to my opinion on chain lubes lol.
Gs500 doesn't deserve expensive oil..
cheaper chain lubes just fling lube everywhere. however I just use my gun lube.
Quote from: J_Walker on July 13, 2017, 09:20:06 AM
cheaper chain lubes just fling lube everywhere. however I just use my gun lube.
And to bring this full circle, I use Mobil1 0W30 for gun lube.
Anyway, qcbaker's comment is pretty much right on, which is why I choose the Rotella T6. It's cheap and easy to get, and is way more than good enough for a GS500. For me it's worth the extra $5/gallon to get the full synthetic oil just for peace of mind especially considering the high heat conditions an air-cooled motorcycle experiences in Central TX in July.
Thank you everybody for the replies! I will be considering the Rotella, for sure.
Quote from: mr72 on July 13, 2017, 01:49:45 PM
...
Anyway, qcbaker's comment is pretty much right on, which is why I choose the Rotella T6. It's cheap and easy to get, and is way more than good enough for a GS500. For me it's worth the extra $5/gallon to get the full synthetic oil just for peace of mind especially considering the high heat conditions an air-cooled motorcycle experiences in Central TX in July.
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/seems-logical-captain.jpg)
WalMart...Valvoline 10-40... 4-stroke motorcycle oil.... $4.27 / qt.
Name brand...cheap price...easy to get....I just stocked up with 8 qts to get me through the summer for two bikes...
Cookie
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on July 13, 2017, 02:41:11 PM
Thank you everybody for the replies! I will be considering the Rotella, for sure.
I have that Valvoline stuff sitting round waiting to go in the bike.
But I think I am going rotella or other 20/50 next time. Maybe that accel mail order I did a few yrs ago.
Accel 10 w 40 was available at Walmart and cheap - it used to be 65c in 2001, and went to a whopping $2.75 the last time I found it @ WM, and it was the cheapest by the qt even then.
The 10 w 40 was keeping my bikes with 10 w 40 long past when I should have gone to 20 w 50.
Cool.
Buddha.
Rotella 15W40 works well in air-cooled motorcycles. I've used it in my Yamaha SR500 (single street bike) and never had any lubrication or clutch problems. Now I use it in my GS500.
Shell Rotella is quite confusing...
This discussion prompted me to go look at what I actually have, since I bought a gallon there is some still in the garage.
First oil change I did soon after getting the bike I used Rotella T "Triple Protection" which is 15W40 conventional oil. I had a rather serious oil leak while using this oil. A few hundred miles later I did a change when fixing the leaky gasket and put in Rotella T5 15W40 synthetic blend. You can't get the Rotella "full synthetic" T6 in 15W40, which is very odd to me, but apparently other motorcyclists confirm there's little value to using the 15W over the 5W in the T6. I may very well switch to 5W40 T6 on my next change...
and... here's why.
After the change to the "Triple Protection" I found I was routinely getting false neutral shifts. I didn't attribute this to the oil, I actually blamed my own poor shift technique. I also noticed the occasional slipping in the clutch, like especially if you rev before releasing the clutch, it slips a bit before getting down to the correct RPMs.
When I changed to the T5 synthetic blend (still 15W40) it appears the false neutral has gone away but the occasional clutch slipping remains.
The bike does have nearly 23K so I figured the clutch slipping was just age (who knows?) and false neutral going away is probably my shifting technique improving. But it could be the oil!
I am going to try the T6 5W40 and see if my clutch performance changes or improves. My guess is the heavier base oil is just too much for the clutch plates to engage correctly and maybe a thinner oil will be better. Who knows? someobody for sure does.
Maybe I should just get the Suzuki oil like SBW originally suggested :)
Bought my 97 new and ran 10W-40 Spectro conventional mc oil for about 4k miles and then changed to Mobil 1 15W-50 automotive synthetic oil for about 60k miles and then went to Rotella T type 15W-40 conventional oils for another 20-30k miles.
Bought my 02 used with about 4k miles on it and assume that was with conventional oil. I changed to Rotella T 15W-40 and went all the way to 100k miles on the Rotella T. The 02 had 140 psi compression in both cylinders at 100k miles. No clutch slippage, clutch still good as new at 100k miles.
I wouldn't put a 5W-anything oil in an air cooled mc.
Quote from: gsJack on July 14, 2017, 12:14:07 PM
Bought my 97 new and ran 10W-40 Spectro conventional mc oil for about 4k miles and then changed to Mobil 1 15W-50 automotive synthetic oil for about 60k miles and then went to Rotella T type 15W-40 conventional oils for another 20-30k miles.
Bought my 02 used with about 4k miles on it and assume that was with conventional oil. I changed to Rotella T 15W-40 and went all the way to 100k miles on the Rotella T. The 02 had 140 psi compression in both cylinders at 100k miles.
Awesome context. Thanks for that. First-hand experience.
Did you experience any of the shifting or clutch issues that I noted on the Rotella 15W40? Am I chasing my tail?
BTW I apologize for the threadjack.
If it wasn't a hundred degrees I'd be out riding instead.
Here is my take on oil.....
I use many places to buy oil from
I go to the most convenient place at the time to buy i
Oil
I always say I want semi-synth oil
I also say....Its oil for a GS5 so I am not paying more than £20 for it FFS!
I usually end up with oil from Motul but there has been other makes involved
I find it difficult to identify any significant difference between oil makes when fresh (at least in a GS5)
I find this approach to oil works best for me
I have never had any issues with any oil I have ever used.
And finaly.....I am not really interested in what oil others use and I dont really expect anyone to be interested in what oil I use.
:dunno_black:
Quote from: mr72 on July 14, 2017, 12:19:14 PM
BTW I apologize for the threadjack.
I don't mind at all!! I wanted discussion and I'm enjoying the replies. Please everybody, continue :-* :)
somebody else said Motul , I was in palm springs last year 122 degree with Motul 300 V , gs500 never missed a beat . :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
I currently have Honda's GN4 brand oil in my bike because it was the cheapest oil available at the dealer I was already at to get a crankcase gasket. That and for some reason, being a Suzuki dealer, they didn't carry any Suzuki oil. My reasoning being that the engine isn't making gobs of power. So, minute changes in oil shouldn't make that big of a difference, and I was already there. I haven't really had any issues with it so far, but I haven't gone a full oil change interval with it yet (knock on wood).
I'm in climate that likes to jump from one end of the weather spectrum to the other (sometimes in the same day), should I be running full synthetic?
The GS5 engine was designed 3 decades ago and it ran reliably 3 decades age on the oils that existed 3 decades ago. Nothing has changed in the intervening years including the service interval so why bother with modern expensive oils and pay for all the hype?
Maybe if I was racking up huge miles on a regular basis or running in a hot climate I might go for something more advanced but for normal use......nah.
Of course if it was some high tech, liquid cooled, fuel injected catalysed, high reving, close tolerance affair with hydraulic valves it would be a different matter.......but its not!
Started using full synthetic Fuchs 15W50 due to Queensland being very hot in summer, however paying nearly $70 AUD for 5 litres seemed excessive.
Now I use Penrite semi-synthetic HPR Diesel 10W40 with a full zinc package so I could use the same oil on our S40 with its flat tappets. I found that going from 15W50 to 10W40 did not make the engine run hotter at all. There was an image of a motorcycle on the label meaning that it did not have any friction modifiers.
I think the best way to get the cheapest oil is not to buy oils that are made specifically for motorcycles as they seem to have an automatic price increase for no apparent reason. I'd just get a good quality 10/40 diesel oil that has 1300-1600 ppm zinc, and doesn't have any friction modifiers, find an oil then email their tech department to check.
I've tried a few in my 450 over the years... initially I ran Shell something or other motorcycle oil... sure it was good but it was ridiculously expensive given I service it every 5000km's.
I tried a Motul fully synthetic oil and all it did was develop leaks it never had before. It also seemed to evaporate... I was constantly topping it up beyond what I saw leaking.
I tried a Castrol GTX diesel oil and it seemed ok but when comparing against what's available in the US (Rotella) it didn't really seem to have all that much zinc etc.
I finally settled on Penrite HPR 15 semi-synthetic 15w50 diesel oil and have never looked back.
Most of the guys I ride with are also on older GS/GSX models and have had similar experiences to me and a significant number use the Penrite also.
If I was in the US, I'd stick with the Rotella for sure.
Modern fully synthetic oils are just not necessary in a bike like the GS unless of course you're racing, and then it's a whole different story.
Interesting that Motul works OK. I found in the SV650 motor ( or at least the Cagiva Raptor 650 version of it) that it made the gearbox sticky. I used Motul mostly in my race bikes except the ER6N which also didn't like it ( gearbox again). I thought the SV and GS500 gears were of a very similar design so it does surprise me that it works well. The sticking may be other than the gear dogs.
Recent tests have shown that high zinc may not be a good long term choice for most engines and particularly aircooled motors because of local very high temps. I was a big fan of Pentite full zincs for my cars, but have gone back to low zinc. In my Rodeo diesel, full zinc definitely improved my fuel economy ( noticably), but doesn't seem to make much difference in the Subaru.
I will use Penrite 15 or 20 /40 low zinc, JASO oils for the GS. I don't have real low temps to contend with. ( doesn't ever go below zeroC here).
Quote from: peteGS on July 17, 2017, 12:37:32 PM
Modern fully synthetic oils are just not necessary in a bike like the GS unless of course you're racing, and then it's a whole different story.
Not necessary ... but again, it can't hurt, right? If a modern synthetic oil results in less wear, smooth(er) shifting, correct clutch engagement, etc., then the only thing not to recommend it would be cost. In my case the Rotella is cheaper than a conventional "motorcycle" oil from a MC shop, so it's a win-win.
I kind of figure a big part of the heat in an air-cooled engine is caused by friction, and reducing friction could reduce heat. And the thing most likely to break a properly-maintained GS500 engine, I'd guess, besides being an idiot and over-revving it or other squiddishness, is to let it overheat. So less heat == less likely to grenade, and therefore spending another $5 per oil change (which being honest is probably once a year for most of us) vs. the bargain basement for Rotella synthetic sounds like it's worth it to me.
What's not worth it is paying too much for inferior oil just because you bought it from a MC shop. IMHO of course.
mr72 words of wisdom :thumb: