Hi all, first post on here please be nice :)
I'm in the middle of rebuilding my bike after a crash and i'm currently stuck with a seized front engine mount bolt and seized exhaust header bolts.
I've given up trying to get them out myself and I've asked a local bike garage to remove them whatever it takes.
Anyway I was thinking about what to do after they are removed, i'm debating whether or not to just buy a set of a4 stainless allen bolts or possibly putting in studs with nuts to have a more traditional setup for the header. I was wondering if any of you out there have thought about this or done this and to get your opinion on it.
I feel like nuts on studs would be easier to remove if I need to take the exhaust off in the future.
Hi Kits! Welcome to the forum.
I replaced mine with stainless studs and nuts. There is some debate on other threads here as well as other places on the internet as to what material is best for the studs to be made out of. I read positives about stainless as well as negatives but went with the stainless after weighing the options.
In my thread here, about half way down, I show the "kit" I bought and some pictures, as well as the depth into the stock threaded holes until studs would bottom out so people could figure out what length they needed depending on what exhaust system they have...
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=70880.160
The ebay link is also in that thread but here it is for ya, and as I mention in the thread, they have other materials available. Also, it says that particular item is "no longer available" but you can see the seller and also other items to get to them again.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231701133196?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I feel SO much better that I did this and it didn't cost much at all.
Hope this helps and good luck!!! Keep us posted on what you do :cheers:
thanks for the info, since they were cheap i actually already bought these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8-x-45-Manifold-Studs-Flange-Nuts-ZINC-Plated-Inlet-Exhaust-Choose-Quantity/390926375066?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=660290787645&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8-x-45-Manifold-Studs-Flange-Nuts-ZINC-Plated-Inlet-Exhaust-Choose-Quantity/390926375066?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=660290787645&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)
however i'm now reconsidering, unfortunately easy kits like the one you linked dont seem to be in very high supply in the UK :(.
Were 50mm studs ok? i was reading your linked post and one of the reply's mention that he was going one size up to 60mm.
Oh no, I'm sorry to hear about the availability issues in the UK... certainly something I've heard before and it depresses me each time :icon_sad:
50mm worked perfectly for my aftermarket exhaust. I can't confirm if they would have worked with the stock GS system or not.
It has been suggested that if they are too long you can just cut them to length... but if it were me, I'd probably cut them at the end that goes into the engine, that way the exposed end would still have the allen insert part.
I also thought about suggesting to send motoMechE a PM to ask how his 60mm ones worked but he hasn't been active on the forum since May so I doubt you'd get a reply :dunno_black:
@SBW, when installing the studs, are they meant to bottom out by hand and then torqued to spec?
I'm one of those people who doesn't pay much mind to torque specs. :icon_rolleyes:
I didn't say I never do... ;) but in this case, I just tightened them down to where they felt correct and then after the next 3 or 4 rides I went on, I checked them to make sure they were still tight (the studs as well as the nuts because I read somewhere that when installing new exhaust gaskets you're supposed to do that.)
If you look close at the picture of the stud "kit" in my project thread, there are instructions on a card they came with. They basically say exactly what you said... tighten and then torque according to the correct specs.
What I meant was just to check that the studs actually bottom out rather than going into an endless hole, and if they do bottom out then that would mean that any thread lock would not be necessary.
You should be able to pickup studs and bolts in just about any shape from a fastenings place for not much. An entire meter from a nearby outlet is all of £6 here (http://www.suffolkfasteners.com/m8-stainless-steel-studding-a4-316.html) and they might even cut it into 4 x 50mm and 4 x 60mm lengths for you (I don't know that but they might?).
I'm in the same boat with snapped exhaust studs and its pending some professionals to fix - definitely not using bolts to refit the exhaust. Stainless Studs and bolts and copper grease all the way!
Would thread-lock work for head studs? I'd have thought the heat would break it down nearly straight away?
@ user... ohhh okay, I think I understand what ya meant now. The only thing I can tell ya is that when I put a tiny screwdriver into the holes and it'd stop, it measured 25mm... but when I'd wind an old bolt in (before I ordered what size I wanted) it wouldn't go any farther than 20mm. It just plain wouldn't. Tried it on all 4 holes. Same thing for when I got the new studs. They all stopped at 20mm in. I obviously can't say that it's like that for every single GS out there, but for mine, that's how it is.
@tobyd all loctite is good up till 150*C, if you need hotter then use loctite 272 which goes up to 230*C. saying this i'm not sure how hot the header would get and since the bolts are actually in the block closer to the cylinder they may get even hotter.
Now i'm wondering whether I should use SS studs with all thread, or non stainless steel studs with an unthreaded part.
some interesting thoughts on torquing manifold studs...
https://www.bmw2002faq.com/articles.html/technical-articles/engine-and-drivetrain/installing-exhaust-manifold-or-header-studs-r30/
Interesting read, for sure... I enjoyed it!
Just goes to show that even the things that seem very simple can be really complex in some ways...!!
I'm just aiming for two things... for the exhaust to stay put like it's supposed to... and whenever I need to remove it (like pretty soon to replace the oil pan gasket), I can do so without breaking or snapping something!
Oh and... of course... to have shiny bits instead of rusty ones :icon_rolleyes: :laugh:
@user11235813 go for all thread, one of the header bolts i'm getting removed is seized by the unthreaded part being stuck on the header, threads would presumably prevent this so even if you snap the stud getting the nut off in the future at least you wont have the header stuck to the stud.
@SBW, As you need to take your exhaust off so regularly, these issues will be more relevant to you than to me as I could probably not even bother with studs as my bolts are in good condition, not that that is going to stop me putting studs in. [edit] I took a bolt out for a closer look and I can see by the way the anti seize coats the bolt that it only protrudes 15mm into the aluminium head, so it makes sense it would not need to be more than 20mm of thread depth. Ended up replacing the SS studs with zinc plated steel with proper shoulder, and I'll clean the hole out with brake cleaner before loctiting it.
I spent some wasted hours yesterday researching on various mainly car forums about using loctite or not and the answer is in...drum roll... it seems to be an even 50/50 split between using loctite or using anti seize!, no one suggests using nothing. Yes you read that correctly loctite and anti seize are the polar opposite of each other. The take home message here is that you're on you're own.
Some cars have additional considerations where the studs penetrate into the water jacket or something like that, but I guess the only consideration for us is that the studs stay in place and dissipate the load correctly, I mean, we don't care if the studs gall in the head, I suppose.
If we go through this much heartache on exhaust studs on our gs500's imagine if we owned a Ninja ZX-14, we'd all be in therapy by now.
@Kits, funnily enough I've decided to return the SS studs and go for shouldered normal steel studs, I won't be jamming them on the shoulder, I'll clean out the hole and lock tite it instead with some high temp stuff. This is because my reading indicates that the load is spread better with shoulders.