GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

Main Area => Projects / Builds, Racing and Tech => Topic started by: Kito on February 19, 2018, 07:03:47 AM

Title: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style) Project Finished
Post by: Kito on February 19, 2018, 07:03:47 AM
Hello everyone

I would like to get reversed gear shifting and I founded that in 2005 some fellows already discussed it.
(http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=21806.0)

However ... now in the far future... We have other possibilities.

I checked ebay and found not expensive rear sets... however they have no information about the holes distances to screw on our GSs.

I founded one that says that is compatible with the SV 650 ( in Brazil we don't have SVs) that I believe that should be the same drilling as the GSs. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Rearsets-Rear-Set-Foot-Pegs-For-Suzuki-SV650-SV650S-SV1000-S-1998-2014-Gold/132479025669?hash=item1ed85d8205:g:-cMAAOSws5BaUz55&vxp=mtr_


And the GSXR...1000cc ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Rearsets-Rear-Set-Foot-Pegs-For-Suzuki-SV650-SV650S-SV1000-S-1998-2014-Gold/132479025669?hash=item1ed85d8205:g:-cMAAOSws5BaUz55&vxp=mtr)

Anyone can tell me is one of these have the same mounting pattern than the GS's?

The spacing between the mounting screws are 81.15 mm (32 inches I suppose)
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: gregjet on February 19, 2018, 01:11:26 PM
If you have a look at the mounbting bolts on the SV mounting plate they slope backwards at the bottom ( unusual actually). The GS500 mounts have the bottom hole in front of the top hole ( a more usual way).
The other problem is that the GS needs a actuation lever attached to the current shift shaft. Most rearset suppliers don't supply that unless the original bike didn't have one ( like the GS500 does not). The SV HAS an actuation lever already.
Having said that it would be possible to use most of that set shown. You would need a stock gear lever you could cut down and modify and to make a new mounting plate for the sub assembly. I have done that many times on racing bikes that did not have a commercial fittment available. The hardest thing to make and fit are the pegs and the lever mounts. At the price of the ones shown they are worth it for the moving parts and sub assembly.
Try and find a set with the hole orientation the right way around. Of course the photo could be a generic one for advertising purposes.
The rod length is likely to be a problem and you may have to fabricate or modify . Even small differences in length make a huge difference to the lever positions.
Also a thing to remember is that the actuation rod needs to be as close to rightangles to BOTH the gear shaft end lever and the attachment to the gear change lever.

I used a similar set for my MT07. NOTE the rearsets shown vary greatly in strength from different suppliers and ALL of them have bolt/thread hole sloppiness. Locktight is highly recommended when fitting.
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on February 19, 2018, 01:49:16 PM
I thank you for these valuable information.

I have a list of things to modify in my gs already.. however, in the meantime I will refining this idea and trying to get even more info.  But as you said.. with some sweat and time is feasible!
Thanks again
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on February 20, 2018, 09:07:51 AM
After struggling to get mine set up I finally gave up and left it gp shift.  It doesn't seem to be that big of a deal.  Read up on tips and alot of guys are for it, whereas of course some people like standard shift pattern.  I figured it's just easier to deal with on mine and I'll get used to it,.... :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: gregjet on February 20, 2018, 01:07:53 PM
I made a set of plates , brackets, levers and heel plates for my GS500 project.
Because the left peg does not have any lever on it it is REALLY simple, especially for a fixed peg.
I made a complete aluminium lever with a proper ball bearing pivot for the right and made some carbon Heelplates.
The stock peg assembly is insanely heavy. If you want to lose some weight from a GS500 this is a good starting place. 2.6kg for the stockers ( not including lever) and .5kg for home made Al/ carbon ones. Making an Al heelplate set in stead of carbon wouldn't add much.
I didn't end up using the pegs shown and went to a fixed set ( a few grams heavier).
You could make a longer gear lever to attach to the stock position or weld in a section to make the stock one longer. Probably even get and aftermarket aluminium one to fit. I know it would still be stock shifting. Just making a simple shifter parallogram with same side actuators would give race pattern.

Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on February 21, 2018, 07:36:15 AM
Lookin sweet!  Please post when you have them mounted too! :star:
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: gregjet on February 21, 2018, 12:44:26 PM
Are you referring to me CBRFXR67. These have been mounted for quite a while. I posted pics but I suspect they went the way of all things photobucket. I won't post here and hijack the thread. Just showing that they are pretty easy to make.
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on February 22, 2018, 06:07:17 AM
Quote from: cbrfxr67 on February 21, 2018, 07:36:15 AM
Lookin sweet!  Please post when you have them mounted too! :star:

Yes...Please DO!
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: gregjet on February 22, 2018, 12:51:47 PM
Ok then. I included as not so well exposed shot as it shows the brake bearing area a bit better. Remember this is a project bike and much is still in proof of concept stage.
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Endopotential on February 22, 2018, 03:29:28 PM
The rearsets from a Honda CBR900RR will work with only minor modification.  You can find them for about $80 on eBay.
I imagine you can set it up for GP shifting fairly easily.

Some pics of them on my bike here  http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=70953.0
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on February 22, 2018, 04:33:31 PM
Thank you Sir! (applause)

This is exactly the info I needed!

By the way I have posted a question on a topic that you posted some pictures of your bike.. so I appreciate that you have helped me here, instead of there! A good way to keep information together and concise!

And congrats on your bike.. looks awesome!
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Endopotential on February 23, 2018, 12:50:59 PM
To Kito and CBRFXR who emailed me, here's my bits for public sharing.

Look up "CBR900RR" rearsets on eBay, brand new ones go for about $85.
Then look up "GS500 shift lever" to get that splined bit.  You'll need to tinker on this to get the shift rod to connect.  Basically cut off about 2 inches of material, then drill and tap a hole so you can put a bolt through the Heim joint of the shift rod.

My pictures aren't embedding for some reason.  Just check my signature for photos that will hopefully work.

(http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Endopotential/media/IMG_1393_zpsomtrbhfb.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: gregjet on February 24, 2018, 12:30:55 PM
Nice find Endo
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on March 20, 2018, 05:42:38 AM
Bought it! :woohoo:
Unfortunately, :cry:  will take months to arrive .. thanks to brazil bureaucracy and customs...


CNC Billet Rearset Foot Pegs Pedals For Honda CBR900RR 893cc SC28 1992-1995 Gray

https://www.ebay.com/itm/312009588093?ul_noapp=true

Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on March 20, 2018, 06:43:54 AM
sweet!  im going to get one too when funds open up for it :cry:
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 13, 2018, 12:30:09 PM
Hey Guys, a quickie one!

My new foot pegs are arriving... and I am starting to prepare myself to install it!

However, I would not wish to destroy my current gear shift lever.
I tried to find some scrap gear shift lever but till now I could not.

So... anybody can answer these questions:

Is there a standard hole size and fixture to the gear lever on the gear rod?

Any other compatible shift levers from other model or makers?


Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on April 13, 2018, 01:40:54 PM
I ordered mine too but haven't gotten it in yet to relate to what you're trying to figure out. Hopefully mine comes in sooner than later,...
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 13, 2018, 02:11:13 PM
 :woohoo: :woohoo:

We are going to need to cut a gear lever and maybe drill some holes, there is a rod (link) that comes from the new shifter thats needs to be attached to the gearbox axel.

this photo is from a post:

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e124/Endopotential/IMG_1366_zpslz9msae2.jpg)
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Endopotential on April 13, 2018, 10:59:22 PM
Hey that bike looks familiar! :embarrassed:

That connecting bit has splines so it would be hard to fabricate one by yourself

Pretty sure GSXRs use the same shift lever, not sure about other Suzuki's
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 17, 2018, 11:39:30 AM
EndoPotential.... If not too much trouble, could you post a zoomed photo of your gear shifting system?

I really don't know how.. but I got all the stuff that I need much earlier than I was expecting... time to have fun now!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VcZ8NG574Vc/WtYzaW1-eWI/AAAAAAAAQ3w/qmJfJtRUgywe-CGhVrXCc-BodYqt85SJwCJoC/w530-h942-n-rw/2018-04-17%2B14.37.22.jpg)
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on April 17, 2018, 02:01:50 PM
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e124/Endopotential/IMG_1393_zpsomtrbhfb.jpg)
? ? ?  click for bigger

Looks like he hacked the shifter in half and mounted the rod piece on it?  Not sure.  When I get mine in I'll be able to see what it looks like better :icon_razz:
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 17, 2018, 03:05:21 PM
I bet he has done exactly as you said!

I bought a wrecked gs shift pedal (as shown in the photo I posted),

The thing is:

Where to cut it!
and how the attachment can be made. ( the rear brake I am realizing that can be trick also)

I will start the fitting this weekend probably. I can make some videos and post here... however my English is like .... sh!t  :cry:

I already will inform you all NOW.. aiming not accept complains latter...  :icon_razz: :flipoff:

Just kidding!


See you , guys!


Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Endopotential on April 19, 2018, 10:56:35 AM
Yup, as CBR said I pretty much hacked it apart and mounted the shift rod to it.  Sorry, stuck at work and likely won't be able to post a photo for a while.

Nothing rocket science to it.  I cut the stock shift lever about 2.5cm below the splined center.  Then drill a hole through the bottom end, to bolt that shift rod to it.  If you want to get fancy you can make that hole threaded, but in any case I would put a lock nut on the other side for security.
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 19, 2018, 04:27:14 PM
applause!

Tks!

If I you allow me to ask you one more question....(sorry if I am being too inconvenient)

About the brake pedal: Have you install the spring on it? The light switch of the rear brake it is functional on your bike?

In my mind, I am quite inclined to quit the brake light be functional on the pedal.... mainly thinking that no serious braking can be done with the rear wheel ( i Barely use rear brakes...) but if it is not a huge trouble I would be glad to let it functional...

tips and/or photos would be super.


tks
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Endopotential on April 19, 2018, 08:21:55 PM
Hey happy to help a fellow GS-er!

No, I never wired my rear brakes for lights.  I try to always brake with front and back, so hopefully that light will always be working.  Though I think I'd prefer drivers to keep an eye on my bike in general, and not just my lights.

I actually ended up putting two springs on the brake pedal return, to make sure it always springs back to neutral so that the brakes don't drag.

Post some pics of what you've been up to!
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on April 21, 2018, 10:36:19 AM
Just wire it in so it's functional. It's two wires right? No biggie and better that way. My .02, humble .02
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Endopotential on April 22, 2018, 12:09:10 AM
Good point...  the guy who helped build my bike hacked off all the original pedals and linkages, so not sure what the stock rear brake switch looked like.  If it were still around, I'd try to hook it up.

The CBR rearset is bare bones with no brake light attachment.

I know there's something like a banjo bolt sensor I can add, but I've never gotten around to it.

Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 22, 2018, 03:26:20 AM


I ended drilling one more hole.. closest to the axis..I am using this one! Update: I am now trying the other mainly because the shifting was abit hard... I will keep you informed, besides that... so far so good!

Today I intend to test the bike for a few hours..

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MVhKtfZfP-o/Wtxi7uAu3QI/AAAAAAAAQ5M/glK41nvqpdourrPP7s_Ipe3orveAkdcswCL0BGAs/w636-d-h477-n-rw/20170601_150134.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UlIHQ9iT3pjjXp31ISS7COaofA94d9Pnal1mPsswcwgx9w4B-mx5WIOQAtmf2gZFq1B0ZBw-6mys0eUNdZCJCg5XJPjjpkGg4U-0Pw=w587-h330-rw)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4FknE9xrHWwtxKKdy_4IoMf-lMgHDnBerHDyfR1DX--WdeBTH3MDWnf9N29tGADylSsFYMx4oZ58mTfykN_f8WUCYO-E_2UVLAsLGQ=w587-h330-rw)
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Endopotential on April 22, 2018, 11:14:28 AM
Nice video Kito!  Good choice of music too  :cool:

Looks like you've got a great workshop to tinker.  Where are you located?

Have you had a chance to take the bike out for a test ride?  On your brake level, I'd keep a close eye on that rubber band replacing the return spring.  Rubber is likely to crack and corrode, especially if close to the heat of the exhaust.
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 22, 2018, 03:15:09 PM
Cheers Endo!

Thanks for your compliments! I really appreciate that!

The music was free to used in my video editor... Filmora.

I am located in São Paulo , Brazil ... one of the reasons that  I like to maintain my bike in the low profile (aesthetically).... 
for instance, the tank is from a wrecked bike...
There is a huge market for parts from used (stolen) bikes.. :2guns:
The second reason is that when I go for A real ride... I go "prepared" to fall. :cookoo:... so there is no point for a fancy shiny bik for myself. .. And now I am preparing my bike for track days also).

Instead, I decided to invest in a workshop... I cannot say that I am not equipped reasonably ... It is nice to have things on hand.

BUT FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN INSTALL THE REARSET KIT.... ITS IS NOT NECESSARY ALL OF THAT! I hope to people noticed that.. A saw,, a power drill, 10mm drill and an M6 tap kit.. will do.
so..

Today I rode it for about 1,5 hours today.... The beginning was harsh... down shifting to first gear it isn't a beautiful scene.. LOL >:(
Moreover ... when you accidentally downshift... usually you were going in high revs intending upshift.

The muscle memory is unforgiven... the reverse shifting when done without previous thinking is, as expected, unpredictable.

But at the end, things got smoother... but I expect at least a full week to my brain adjust.

About the rubber.. yes I will keep an eye on it! But if it breaks on a ride.. for what I tested, I do not expect a problem.. at least something to be very concerned about it.

MAybe I will look for a better quality rubber...  well... things in that bike are always under test and under supervision...

In a few weeks, I can make a review of how things are going with this project.

PS My wife loved your bike.. she could not believe that we are riding the same model... LOL...   :confused:










Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: alpo on April 23, 2018, 03:53:46 PM
GP shifting is a learning experience.  :laugh: It is great for catching the next gear when exiting left-handed corners.
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on April 24, 2018, 06:52:08 AM
Kito, why reverse shifting?  I got this kit to eliminate the reverse shifting.  :dunno_black: 
It's early and my brain isn't braining, so forgive me if you already explained all that,....(https://www.motohouston.com/forums/images/smilies/happy3.gif)
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 24, 2018, 07:11:57 AM
Hey CBR, how is it going?

Before I start to write.. I googled some pages to search a good content to you have a look.

However, I took one phrase that is the core of your question:

why reverse shifting?

"The biggest benefit to a reverse shift pattern on the track is that upshifts are easier to make while you're still hung off the bike exiting a corner. This applies to both left- and right-hand corners, though for different reasons."

The MAIN intention is not to get your foot caught in the asphalt while upshifting in a left-handed turn exit!
But there are others pros and cons.. check the links if you can!


https://www.sportrider.com/should-you-reverse-your-shift-pattern-riding-skills-series#page-3

https://www.designcorse.com/blogs/news/gp-shift-pattern

Obviously, I am light years from a GP class rider, however, I like to have fun in:

Cheers!
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: cbrfxr67 on April 24, 2018, 08:15:29 AM
Ah, ok.  I did reverse shifting on mine because I couldn't get the shifter rod set up correctly to shift in regular style.  When I saw Endo's set up, thanks to you, I realized I could set mine up to 'not' have reverse shifting.
I realize now that you 'want' reverse shifting.  10-4  :thumb:
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on April 24, 2018, 09:59:09 AM
Yes I Do!  :woohoo:

At first I was "copying" the Endo installation... And Yes... the regular shifting is much more complex to
set ( in this kind of kit) because of the interference between components... t

Thank god that for reverse style was a lot easier.

Yesterday I ordered a Folding foot rest.. I am a bit concern that when I go down... The footrest will break but  before that it can bend the part of the frame where the set is screwed.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Motorcycle-M8-Universal-Folding-Foot-Pegs-Footpegs-Rear-Sets-Pedal-Neverland/302550109401?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=601387965637&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4TMAAOSwFyhaIZk6/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style)
Post by: Kito on July 24, 2018, 05:49:37 AM
OK,

Let give you some thoughts about gp shifting style after about 3 months of testing.

First of all to get used to the reverse is not a walk in the park

I have some theories why... but I do not think that is the place to debate it

The first week is a hell.... after stretching the revs..9K.... aiming to upshift... you end downshifting.... ugly thing to see!

the errors decrease exponentially... in this way ..
in the first week... you got like 15% of erros... the second  7.5%, the other...  3.75%....

as you can see .. difiicult to get at 0%!

Pros:
Really easy to upshift in left or right handed turns!
No one will steal your bike.. lol
no friend will take a ride
Is kind of cool

Cons:
When in down shifting in a hurry.. you need first to get your foot under the lever.
You will suffer to ride in someone else's bike.
The Pros doesn't add that much to average rider performance


the project is working as it should.. a thread lock glue is desirable

Cheers



Title: Re: Resurrecting topic: GS reverse shifting (GP style) Project Finished
Post by: crackin on July 25, 2018, 04:45:55 AM
I have GP shift on my bike, and it did take some getting used to. I also have a 2017 DR-Z 400 that i ride on the road and that has stock a stock shifter. It's just a matter of thinking about what gearing each bike has. Once you get your head around it you will be fine.
I do agree about revving the bike out to 9,000 RPM and then changing down. It's a real PIA but you learn quickly not to do that.