What was probably "the right" Ducati Scrambler came up on CL last week; 2015 icon, 3700 miles, mint condition, $5900. It's even red. But I talked myself out of it.
When push came to shove and the idea of selling my GS500 to replace it with a new Duc was put into the real of the possible, I discovered that for now what appeals about a new bike is not enough to overcome the downsides.
The main downsides of keeping the GS500 are: it's old enough to have iffy reliability (although I always think I have JUST fixed the last thing;) ), it is kind of the Ford Focus of motorcycles which bruises my pride, and the performance and appearance are short of perfect. But the upsides are huge: it's bought and paid for, I'm qualified to repair it, it's very cheap to run and maintain/repair, and not the least of which, I don't mind if it gets a little bit of abuse, intentional or not.
The upsides of buying a new(er) Ducati are: it performs better and is more comfortable, it has the cachet that a guy of my age and means has earned, and it may not need modification or repair for a long time. But the downsides are huge: I'd have to either get a loan (and pay 10x as much for insurance) or make unattractive lifestyle choices to buy it, it would be far more costly to repair (even if it rarely required it), and I might be less willing to just get on it and go anywhere because of fear of racking up miles, having it knocked over in a parking lot or stolen, or putting dents and scratches in it.
The really BIG things I want out of a newish Ducati are ABS and fuel injection. The rest is fluff. But those are things that can't easily be done to a GS500.
I think with a little bit of work I can increase the cachet of the GS500 and spend less than I would on two months of payments and insurance on a Ducati. Just feels dumb to invest $500 in upgrades on a $1500 motorcycle, but probably makes more sense than spending $5000 in "upgrades" to get a different one. New front springs and a fork brace would go far in fixing the only performance complaint I have, and a little custom bodywork, if I'm really serious about doing it, will fix the appearance issues and make it not scream "I'm old AND cheap!". which I guess is appropriate since I am old and cheap.
So for now that's the plan. I'm going to stop looking for Ducatis and start saving some money. I think I'm committed to the GS500 for another year at least. Ideally I'd love to keep the GS and also add a Ducati to the garage, that way I have my cheap/reliable/abusable backup at all times.
Quote from: mr72 on April 23, 2018, 06:16:42 AM
I might be less willing to just get on it and go anywhere because of fear of racking up miles, having it knocked over in a parking lot or stolen, or putting dents and scratches in it.
As someone who daily rides a Monster, I can say that the fear was real when I first got it. I have a history of having imperfect motorcycles, mostly by way of affordability, so little nicks and scrapes or a drop was always something disappointing at worst. Although my Ducati wasn't exactly expensive it was by far the nicest bike I've ever owned, and I was keen on keeping it immaculate.
A Palo Verde beetle ruined all hope of that a few weeks later when it hit my gas-tank and put a pinky-nail sized paint chip in it. I was pissed for a few days, and after that it's like "Well, I bought this bike as my only source of transportation, it was only a matter of time before it got damaged in some way."
Not that I've retired any sense of keeping it nice, but wear happens. I'd rather have a bike I am happy to ride and enjoy and take anywhere than one I'd be too afraid to ride since it would depreciate the market value or increase the odds that it won't look immaculate. I'm not into a bike to resell it, I'm not into a bike to show it off, I'm into a bike to ride it, so ride it I do.
It's like when I was a liquor salesman, people would ask me all the time what the most expensive liquor in the store was. I'd tell them it was Remy Martin Louis XIII, of which a fifth is about $3000. It's in a very ornate crystal decanter and comes in a red-leather wrapped display box, the whole package is beautiful. Most of the time after seeing it the person would make a claim in some way or another that if they were to buy it they'd set it on a mantle or something and not drink it. My response was usually something like "Would you spend $3000 on a decoration? Or on a paperweight? If you would, I'm sure there are much better decorations or paper-weights than Louis XIII. The master distiller of Remy Martin hand selects this batch out of samples that have been aged for longer than he's been alive, to purchase this and NOT drink it would be a crime. Drink it first, then display the bottle."
Still, if the time isn't right the time isn't right, and I'm always on the lookout for more bikes as I'm not completely satisfied on one machine. If my recent experience with flat tires has taught me anything it's that I should at least have a backup vehicle in case of emergency, so I am 100% in favor of NOT selling a bike to afford a bike, which is a practice I've held consistently. If it takes you another year of saving to get the Ducati while keeping the GS, I think it might be the best move.
Quote from: mr72 on April 23, 2018, 06:16:42 AM
...it has the cachet that a guy of my age and means has earned,
I'd have to either get a loan (and pay 10x as much for insurance) or make unattractive lifestyle choices to buy it,
Those two statements seem contradictory. You are clearly not passionate enough about the Ducati to purchase it. If you really wanted the bike, the fact that you would need a loan or sacrifice elsewhere would be fine.
I would never buy a depreciating asset with a loan. Unless it was one of those 0% loans Suzuki was offering awhile back.
Isn't that one of the main reasons we all own a GS500? Its too cheap to pass up.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on April 23, 2018, 08:46:11 AM
Those two statements seem contradictory. You are clearly not passionate enough about the Ducati to purchase it. If you really wanted the bike, the fact that you would need a loan or sacrifice elsewhere would be fine.
Yep, you're right.
The point is, I CAN afford a much nicer motorcycle without any loans but I might not be able to afford both it and some other things that I have.. I mean, I have over a dozen electric guitars, a 6'1" grand piano, and a 2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I could easily trade the Jeep for some other vehicle and have enough left over to get a brand new Ducati if I really wanted to. Or sell a couple of guitars or sell the piano etc. But those are the lifestyle choices I don't want to make.
Mostly it's the extra insurance for a motorcycle with a lien. That's money down a black hole. So I'd rather just ferret away a little cash here and there and then buy a new(er) bike for cash when it's more comfortable to do so.
So I'll keep the GS for now :)
The other thing I didn't mention is that I actually quite enjoy having something to tinker with. I am not sure I'd really be happy with a motorcycle that I didn't feel free to fiddle with all the time.
Quote from: Watcher on April 23, 2018, 08:34:55 AM
I'd rather have a bike I am happy to ride and enjoy and take anywhere than one I'd be too afraid to ride since it would depreciate the market value or increase the odds that it won't look immaculate.
Yeah, exactly. And this is exactly why I think I'd prefer to have my GS even if I had another (nicer) bike, that way if I was riding somewhere where I thought the chances of damage was higher, I could leave the nice bike in the garage.
Quote
... Remy Martin Louis XIII, ... the whole package is beautiful. Most of the time after seeing it the person would make a claim in some way or another that if they were to buy it they'd set it on a mantle or something and not drink it.
Yeah my aunt gave me a similar bottle of scotch in the original packaging, some Chivas Regal collector setup with glasses and all that in mint unopened packaging that she's had in storage since about 1983. It's worth who knows how much now and of course the only reason it's worth anything is because it's unopened and totally original, and whomever would buy it would also set it on a mantle somewhere and not open it.
Speaking of which, maybe I should sell the Chivas Regal collector pack and use the proceeds towards a new bike.
Quote from: mr72 on April 23, 2018, 10:16:21 AM
Speaking of which, maybe I should sell the Chivas Regal collector pack and use the proceeds towards a new bike.
That seems like a great idea to me.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on April 23, 2018, 11:19:36 AM
That seems like a great idea to me.
Yeah, it sounds like it but I kind of wonder whether it'd be worth it, in the event that it might upset my aunt. Plus it may be far south of $1K which would be hardly worth it. If it was <$1K then I'd do it in a heartbeat, but then I'd want to give my aunt the proceeds.
Quote from: mr72 on April 23, 2018, 10:16:21 AM
Quote from: Watcher on April 23, 2018, 08:34:55 AM
I'd rather have a bike I am happy to ride and enjoy and take anywhere than one I'd be too afraid to ride since it would depreciate the market value or increase the odds that it won't look immaculate.
Yeah, exactly. And this is exactly why I think I'd prefer to have my GS even if I had another (nicer) bike, that way if I was riding somewhere where I thought the chances of damage was higher, I could leave the nice bike in the garage.
My point was that I would get a bike to ride it, even if it's a bike one would normally "collect" or "show off". If I had a Norton I'd ride it. If I had an original Indian I'd ride it. If I had a Super Cub that was owned by Soichiro Honda himself, I'd ride it. Motorcycles are made to be ridden, one should ride them, if they end up with minor scars that's just evidence of a life well lived...
Quote from: Watcher on April 23, 2018, 08:45:52 PM
My point was that I would get a bike to ride it, ... Motorcycles are made to be ridden, one should ride them,
Agreed, absolutely.
But there may indeed be a difference, perhaps hard to track and subtle, between "ride it" and "abuse it".
I run this with my guitars. I have a number of guitars that are basically immaculate including a 22-year-old Breedlove acoustic that is probably worth more than that Ducati I was considering, an almost-mint '84 Fender Esprit that I got when I was 13 (and it was new), and my beloved '07 PRS MIra. I play them all but I am conscious of their value and make a point to exercise care with them. When it comes time for a repair I approach it with fear and trembling. OTOH my 27-year-old Seagull acoustic has had the tar played out of it, nearly has a hole in the top, and when I did a refret job on it just recently the neck actually broke OFF. I glue it back and marveled at how wonderfully it played and sounded after the repair. I have a '74 Ibanez LP Jr with loads of battle scars and lots of road wear and I don't hesitate to take it anywhere and play it with abandon. The thing is, I play that PRS about 10x as much as I play the old Ibanez and I play my Breedlove about 100x as much as the Seagull, but if I have to take one to the beach you bet it's going to be the Seagull and if I have to loan one to a friend it'll be the Ibanez.
I think the same is true for motorcycles to some extent. If I had a nice newer bike I'd ride it most of the time. But if I was doing a ride that would have miles of gravel I'd probably take the GS. Less expensive paint to repair. Or if I was riding out and I thought there was a fair chance of rain, I'd leave the newer bike safe and dry and risk corrosion on the GS. Again, far less expensive parts to replace and it's ok if it has to sit up for a couple of weeks while it dries out.
On a slightly different topic, I went out yesterday and took another hard look at the GS, trying to identify exactly what it is that is needed to bring it up to snuff and make me quit looking for something else. Aside from finish stuff (the crankcase sides need repainting...), the big thing is the seat/tank position and the tail end. I really prefer the look of the bike without the factory side and tail plastics on it, but it leaves the starter relay and harnesses exposed so that is going to have to be covered with something, and I have materials here to make up something like a set of number plates to deal with that. I plan to make a grille of sorts to cover the reg/rect, not because I think it's all that unsightly, but mostly because I fear it may get very hot and I don't want a passenger to get burned.
But the big work is the seat, tail and tank. After looking hard at it, I think I can raise the tank about 1" in the rear and 1/2" up front by creative use of rubber bumpers and nylon spacers. Then I can raise the entire seat 1" again using spacers. Easy enough. Then I have to deal with the tail end. If I remove the little nerf bars that have the tie-down attachments on them, which wrap around and have the tail light bracket, then that cleans that up quite a lot. I think I will flip the fender around backward so the curved part is toward the rear and maybe even chop off the squarish part where the license plate currently sits if it doesn't fit up under the frame. Then if I find the right tail light I can fit one directly between the tail end of the frame and the bottom/back of the seat much like the current Monster 797s are built. I think with a Saturday's worth of work I can really improve the appearance of the rear end of the bike and also make it more comfortable and fit me better. Then the challenge will be how to mount my top box.
See, I'd never consider doing this kind of hacking on a Ducati :) Not on a new one anyway. Of course, I might not need to.
Maybe there's a middle option. I bought a Versys for $3500. It's Ok to park outside and its got a fuel injected 650cc parallel twin. And luggage. I rode my GS a few days ago and it felt really small. It's prettier though.
This isn't exactly the same thing, but I also just recently decided to keep my GS for a little longer. I'm not trying to hijack your thread and make it about me, I just have a similar story to share:
Next week, I am moving (same city, just into a nicer place) and my girlfriend will be starting grad school this summer (she will be getting paid for her time in the lab, so its more like a job than school) so in a few months I will end up with a bunch more money at the end of the month. Originally my plan was to sell the GS this summer, use that as a down payment on the GSX-R I really want, and take out a small loan (and pay it off quickly with the extra money I will have). However, I also want a new car. I use my car more often than the bike, and my Corolla seems to be costing more and more to maintain every year so I think that's what I want to upgrade first. (Its also incredibly boring to drive and I want something nicer and more engaging, but that's kind of beside the main point lol) So, with that in mind, I decided I think I'm better off upgrading my car at the end of this summer instead of my bike. And, since the car payment and insurance for the car I want should still allow me to save a bit at the end of each month, I should be able to save up and just buy the GSX-R outright next summer. So, for now I'm gonna keep the GS and maybe do some little mods to it to make it more fun in the mean time.
Quote from: 78530i on April 24, 2018, 03:12:56 PM
Maybe there's a middle option. I bought a Versys for $3500. It's Ok to park outside and its got a fuel injected 650cc parallel twin. And luggage. I rode my GS a few days ago and it felt really small. It's prettier though.
Yeah I am pretty much either going to stick with the GS500 or get a Ducati either a Monster 797 or a Scrambler 800. I have a thing about sub-400lb air-cooled bikes.
I think the Versys feels really big. It's quite tall. If I were going to do water cooled then I'd probably pick a FZ-07 or XSR 700. Or even an ER-6n. Those are all pretty attractive parallel twin bikes. However, it's going to be tough to find any of them for $3500.
Basically I've chosen not to do the "middle" option. Either I'm keeping the GS or if I spend any more money besides cheap mods/maintenance/repair (two-digit price tag stuff) then I'm going all in. I have spent a lot of my life doing the middle option and regretted it.
Quote from: qcbaker on April 25, 2018, 08:22:09 AM
This isn't exactly the same thing, but I also just recently decided to keep my GS for a little longer. I'm not trying to hijack your thread and make it about me, I just have a similar story to share:
Hey that's the point of a discussion :)
I think you are making the right decision FWIW :). Especially if you use a car more and can't comfortably afford both.
Quote from: mr72 on April 25, 2018, 11:12:05 AM
Hey that's the point of a discussion :)
I think you are making the right decision FWIW :). Especially if you use a car more and can't comfortably afford both.
:cheers: Yeah, with the amount of driving I do, I think having the car I want (Scion FR-S, most likely) sooner will be more rewarding. To be fair, I know an FR-S isn't exactly the most practical choice for an area that gets snow in the winter (I plan to eventually buy a second set of wheels and fit them with good winter tires so I can swap easily when it starts getting cold/snowy), but it'll fit my fishing stuff in the trunk and has back seats (albeit not the most comfortable ones) if I really need to transport more than just myself and my girlfriend. It's also relatively inexpensive to mod, plus I can do autocross or even a proper track day with it if I want.
As for the GSX-R... :dunno_black: I've wanted one since I was a kid. First time I saw the (then brand new) '04 GSX-R at bike rally my dad took me to I was like "Wow, I want one of those when I grow up."
But for your next bike, if you like the Scrambler, I say save up and get it. Although, if it were me I'd probably go with the XSR. I just trust japanese bikes for reliability more than I would Ducati.
If the XSR was air cooled, I'd be all over it. But that radiator ruins the look entirely and it's more expensive than the Scrambler or a Monster.
There's a GSX-R 600 for sale for quite cheap locally that I was very tempted to buy last weekend. I think it's an '09 or something, $2500, includes a bunch of gear, mint condition and low miles. I thought about buying it just to flip it.
Quote from: mr72 on April 26, 2018, 08:48:58 AM
If the XSR was air cooled, I'd be all over it. But that radiator ruins the look entirely and it's more expensive than the Scrambler or a Monster.
There's a GSX-R 600 for sale for quite cheap locally that I was very tempted to buy last weekend. I think it's an '09 or something, $2500, includes a bunch of gear, mint condition and low miles. I thought about buying it just to flip it.
A mint '09 GXSR with low miles and including gear for $2500 would make me incredibly suspicious.. That bike has a KBB of >$4K and someone is selling it for $2.5K? Something doesn't add up.
KBB may be >4K where you are, but this is in Temple or Killeen, which are sort of middle-of-nowhere small towns (Killeen is home to Fort Hood) basically an hour from Austin so prices of everything is kind of depressed.
Quote from: mr72 on April 26, 2018, 09:16:42 AM
KBB may be >4K where you are, but this is in Temple or Killeen, which are sort of middle-of-nowhere small towns (Killeen is home to Fort Hood) basically an hour from Austin so prices of everything is kind of depressed.
Lol maybe I just need to take a trip to "middle-of-nowhere" Texas to buy my GSXR...
There's a whole lot of middle-of-nowhere in Texas.
It's really easy to be two hours from any town with more than 2000 people.
We do a trip down to South Padre about once every year or two and there's like a 1.5 hour part of that drive that's literally through the King Ranch, ONE RANCH. It's a road and a railroad track beside it on one side a power lines on the other side and NOTHING ELSE for about 100 miles. And that's not even beginning to talk about the wide open spaces in West Texas.
That reminds me of driving through Nevada. I remember thinking some of those little "towns" must be a full tank of gas from the nearest gas station.
Quote from: qcbaker on April 26, 2018, 08:36:53 AM
To be fair, I know an FR-S isn't exactly the most practical choice for an area that gets snow in the winter (I plan to eventually buy a second set of wheels and fit them with good winter tires so I can swap easily when it starts getting cold/snowy)
When the time comes, look for FR-S/BRZ/GT-86 forums and facebook groups, and also check CL for wheels with winter tires. I recently got a set of Blizzaks for my Golf R already mounted and balanced with only a couple of winters on them for $350. I found them on a local VW owner FB group from a guy who recently sold his GTI. :thumb:
Quote from: rscottlow on April 26, 2018, 12:22:32 PM
When the time comes, look for FR-S/BRZ/GT-86 forums and facebook groups, and also check CL for wheels with winter tires. I recently got a set of Blizzaks for my Golf R already mounted and balanced with only a couple of winters on them for $350. I found them on a local VW owner FB group from a guy who recently sold his GTI. :thumb:
I've already checked out a couple different forums, but I hadn't really considered craigslist for wheels with tires already on them.. I'll have to keep an eye out for that. Thanks for the tip :cheers:
FWIW when I bought my Jeep in 2015 I took the cheapo steel/small wheels/tires figuring I would want to upgrade early anyway so why pay $1500 more for wheels and tires I didn't likely want for the long term. I found a set of Wrangler Sahara wheels/tires with 300 miles on them on CL for $400, that's for FIVE. Then I sold my new stock steelies with about 300 miles on them for $300, again for FIVE.
You can certainly find a set that will work for winter for a few hundred bucks on CL as long as you are not committed to a certain look/style of wheel.
Quote from: mr72 on April 26, 2018, 12:49:27 PM
FWIW when I bought my Jeep in 2015 I took the cheapo steel/small wheels/tires figuring I would want to upgrade early anyway so why pay $1500 more for wheels and tires I didn't likely want for the long term. I found a set of Wrangler Sahara wheels/tires with 300 miles on them on CL for $400, that's for FIVE. Then I sold my new stock steelies with about 300 miles on them for $300, again for FIVE.
You can certainly find a set that will work for winter for a few hundred bucks on CL as long as you are not committed to a certain look/style of wheel.
You got an awesome deal on those. :thumb:
Winter set ups typically don't look good anyway, so looks weren't a concern for me. My winter tires are on the hideous stock wheels from a mk5 GTI.
(http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww336/silver_as17/arian2012/2012-11-02_14-36-25_486.jpg)
Ooooooh I like those!!!
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on April 29, 2018, 06:07:36 PM
Ooooooh I like those!!!
I don't know what they'll look like on the car yet, but I've never been a fan of the wheels VW puts on the GTI's. Mine are nowhere near as clean as the one in that photo, but it's the best picture I could find...