EDIT: See question about restrictor plates in post 7 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=72599.msg874191#msg874191).
Guys, just got my carburettor back from the cleaners, Sent it off at the end of May. No bike all summer. There was a hold up because he had to order slide guides from a BMW dealer in Lithuania. Apparently they're hard to get.
Can't wait to get this back on the bike but how do I set the throttle cable slack?
Here's the current slack. You think that is too much?
(https://i.imgur.com/atsnwmC.png)
How do I tighten the slack?
There are three nuts.
One is hidden in the pic (you can just see half it) and then there are two on the left of the fixture.
What way are you supposed to turn them to reduce slack?
(https://i.imgur.com/VxEb2VV.png)
That's WAY too much slack!
First make sure the adjuster at the grip is all the way in.
The nut closest to the carb is a locking nut. You'll want to turn the nut just behind that one. That will pull the jacket of the cable further back and draw the slack off the cable.
You'll want to set that so that you have about a 1/8" play in the throttle at the grip, then tighten the smaller nut against the carb to lock it all in place.
From there if the cable stretches you can adjust at the grip.
Quote from: Watcher on August 03, 2018, 05:14:53 PM
That's WAY too much slack!
First make sure the adjuster at the grip is all the way in.
The nut closest to the carb is a locking nut. You'll want to turn the nut just behind that one. That will pull the jacket of the cable further back and draw the slack off the cable.
You'll want to set that so that you have about a 1/8" play in the throttle at the grip, then tighten the smaller nut against the carb to lock it all in place.
From there if the cable stretches you can adjust at the grip.
Cheers for the help, think I understand but just so I'm clear, I've labelled the parts.
(https://i.imgur.com/TZKhF3N.png)
So I turn the large nut marked 1 that and the object is to pull the threaded bit marked 4 towards the left in the picture to tighten slack?
you got it and when you are done tighten nut number 2.
Sorry for the late reply, you got it, and thanks for Grader for confirmation :cheers:
One more thing, when the bike is all buttoned up check to make sure steering all the way left/right doesn't automatically apply throttle.
That would indicate insufficient slack in the cable, but it's sometimes a symptom of routing the cable incorrectly.
Let us know if you have any further issues.
Quote from: grader on August 03, 2018, 10:45:14 PM
you got it and when you are done tighten nut number 2.
Quote from: Watcher on August 03, 2018, 11:12:01 PM
Sorry for the late reply, you got it, and thanks for Grader for confirmation :cheers:
One more thing, when the bike is all buttoned up check to make sure steering all the way left/right doesn't automatically apply throttle.
That would indicate insufficient slack in the cable, but it's sometimes a symptom of routing the cable incorrectly.
Let us know if you have any further issues.
Cheers guys.
This look better? Note the way the bolts on the left are are. They aren't seated against eachother.
(https://i.imgur.com/HIQCPFE.png)
Trying to push the carbs back onto their boots. Harder than I thought. Had to get some help. I have the airbox on them so that makes it harder to get a grip on them to pull back.
This was as far as I was able to pull them on. You think they are on far enough? Can someone please check their bike and compare it to mine? Should there be no gap? The screw holes on the airbox line up with their holes on the frame but I didn't hear a pop like one video suggested I would hear when the carbs are seated properly.
(https://i.imgur.com/Co2YYKZ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/CNLTLBW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3Foh3A4.png)
Forgot to put a clip on the centre hose so I might pull them off again if I can't get it on while the carbs are on the bike or I might just leave it.
If they won't go in any further, they're in. I don't recall any special noise when reseating the carbs.
Quote from: Kookas on August 04, 2018, 08:10:41 AM
If they won't go in any further, they're in. I don't recall any special noise when reseating the carbs.
Took them off again, removed the airbox, put the fuel hose clip on and put them on without the airbox so I had plenty of grip to push them on.
There was a slight pop sound, though you might not hear it if they are pushed on slowly.
(https://i.imgur.com/ddmE6yC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/iOSQGJY.png)
This seems to be as flush as they get.
However, I was searching the forum and this post (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=65933.0) says that these are restrictor plates.
(https://i.imgur.com/AIponaL.png)
Should I remove them?
This is an EU bike. Nobody told me it was restricted when I bought it second hand. Is it an emissions thing?
Here's the info I received from the guy who was rebuilding my carbs about the new jets:
QuoteThe codes on your carbs are not listed in the Suzuki manual, so I've set them up according to the EU/UK model specs.
The needle is now one position richer as per the Suzuki manual. The floats are set to the stock height and the pilot screws at 2.25 turns.
The main jets in the king are also slightly bigger, but the difference is minimal (#120 up from #117.5).
The carbs are bench balanced, bug may benefit from balancing on the bike, idle will need to be set, but has been approximated.
I suspect your model year was set up a bit lean to meet increasing emissions requirements, so hopefully it will run better than new. If not, put the needles back on clip position 3.
Quote from: Toner on August 04, 2018, 09:24:36 AMShould I remove them?
YES!!!!And then throw them into the ocean....where salt water will eventually make them disappear off the face of the earth.....Pure Evil!
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on August 04, 2018, 10:08:41 AM
Quote from: Toner on August 04, 2018, 09:24:36 AMShould I remove them?
YES!!!!
And then throw them into the ocean....where salt water will eventually make them disappear off the face of the earth.....Pure Evil!
Well that's fairly emphatic. I'll take your advice but I'll keep 'em just in case.
Quote from: Toner on August 04, 2018, 10:22:47 AMWell that's fairly emphatic. I'll take your advice but I'll keep 'em just in case.
Look at the size of the hole with the restrictor plate in place...imagine that as the amount of FUN you have had riding a restricted GS.
Now remove the restrictor plate and then look at the size of the hole...the new hole size is proportional to the amount of FUN you will have riding your GS now :whisper:
Wow, that's rough. More than likely something for an A2 restriction - I think the UK's used to be lower? Definitely burn in a fire.
Well got her all back together and took her out. Can't really tell if she has more bite. I'll have to take her out for a longer ride tomorrow for more testing. It's late here now.
Low gears would bog a bit though. She stalled twice when I was stopped but I was messing with the idle so maybe that was it.
Those 120 Jets will still be a bit lean. What size pilot Jets? How did you set the idle?
Still lean?
This is the guy who did the carb work for Toner, on my recommendation. He is one of the most knowledgeable and respected carb guys in the Uk.
Given your limited experience and habit of of overlooking some of the most important aspects of carb overhauls are you really saying he got it wrong.
Don't embarrass yourself ;)
https://m.harpers-ultrasonic.com/Home---Ultrasonic-Cleaning.html
Took her out for a big long spin, motorways and the works on an absolutely stunning day here.
Bike is working great. Didn't have one problem, no stalls, nothing. I think the bogging problem is gone.
I think I have the idle set fine.
Quote from: sledge on August 05, 2018, 09:32:38 AM
https://m.harpers-ultrasonic.com/Home---Ultrasonic-Cleaning.html
@Toner Out of interest, how much did the complete carb cleaning come to in the end? I remember you posted before saying you had to pay extra for new slides or something too, so was that a big portion of the end cost?
It's £90 for a basic clean and overhaul. plus any postage costs. Least it was about 6 months ago when Mat last did a set for me. For that I got the carbs split, dismantled, inspected and ultrasonically cleaned. ALL the orings, the chamber gaskets, the fuel rail seals and the choke plunger seals were replaced.
Worn slides, needles, jets, emulsion tubes, diaphragms, throttle spindles and seals, springs, linkage parts etc will bump the price up.
Give him a call and ask him, he really does know his stuff and is a nice guy to deal with.
Downside is that he is always busy and you will probably have to wait a few weeks for him to do the work :dunno_black:
I say don't fix what ain't broke. :thumb:
Quote from: max on August 05, 2018, 12:41:05 PM
Quote from: sledge on August 05, 2018, 09:32:38 AM
https://m.harpers-ultrasonic.com/Home---Ultrasonic-Cleaning.html
@Toner Out of interest, how much did the complete carb cleaning come to in the end? I remember you posted before saying you had to pay extra for new slides or something too, so was that a big portion of the end cost?
Here is the cost breakdown I got:
Cleaning £60.00
Rebuild kits £63.04
Slide inserts £69.03
Post £16.00
Total: £208.27
which is about €250 or $270
He did a quality job shipping it back with polystyrene inserts holding it study and loads of bubble wrap. Plus he sent all the old stuff he took out in a ziplock bag which was cool.
Wow thats a hell of a lot of cash to drop on a carb service. I know mechanics charge like a wounded bull, but that would be near $400 aus dollars. You could buy an ultrasonic cleaner for 200 pounds where you are. Then you could clean your carbs when ever you liked.
The slide insert's probably weren't entirely necessary, but if the mechanic has a good reputation as Sledge suggests, then he ain't gonna risk sending you the carb's back half done. He just charge's you for the part's and labour.
Your running a stock air box and filter right? Maybe raise the E clip on the jet needles a notch if she's bogging.
And pull those restrictors out. Your mechanic would not have set up your carbs the way he did if he knew they where in there.
Break the costs down.
It was £60 for labour, the rest being parts and postage.
When you consider certain top flight franchised dealers in parts of the UK are now charging upwards of £75/hour + VAT at 20% it seems fair price to me, especially when you consider the calibre of the guy.
Quote from: crackin on August 06, 2018, 02:08:53 AM
Wow thats a hell of a lot of cash to drop on a carb service. I know mechanics charge like a wounded bull, but that would be near $400 aus dollars. You could buy an ultrasonic cleaner for 200 pounds where you are. Then you could clean your carbs when ever you liked.
The slide insert's probably weren't entirely necessary, but if the mechanic has a good reputation as Sledge suggests, then he ain't gonna risk sending you the carb's back half done. He just charge's you for the part's and labour.
Your running a stock air box and filter right? Maybe raise the E clip on the jet needles a notch if she's bogging.
And pull those restrictors out. Your mechanic would not have set up your carbs the way he did if he knew they where in there.
You know I think the issue I had may have been with the slide guides. You can see the issue I was having in this vid.
The choke wasn't working properly like the valves were sticking. I'd also stall out when stopped at lights unless I put the choke up but not every time.
He sent the old carb slides back so I'll post some pics later to see what you think.
I think the 117.5 jets were sized to work with the restrictor plates in place. If you remove the restrictor plates, the 120 jets may wind up making it too lean, but you can sort that out yourself down the line. 122.5 or 125 jets were stock without restrictor plates.
FYI.
Given he has just had the carbs overhauled by one of the best guys in the UK I think he should leave everything well alone but if he does have an issue speak to the man himself for advice.......don't you?
FYI
These are the stock main jet sizes for UK models.
EK&EP 120
ER&ES 125 (LH) 122.5 (RH)
ET to EY 115
K1 and on 115
It's all there in black and white in the service manual :thumb:
Maybe you should get yourself a copy and read though it rather than saying things that just aren't true and giving out misleading info.
BTW.....have you ever even seen a restricted GS5?
Mine's an EY model. I do wonder whether removing the restrictor plates would impact what jets are best and whether the manual takes that into account.
I took her out again with a full tank today up the mountains. No issues again. No bogging, no stalling so I'm happy with it.
Here's some pics of the old sliders.
(https://i.imgur.com/Rc9spht.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/cUgmb1E.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/dqO8hTd.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qyadifq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/DQ6p0PB.png)
Quote from: sledge on August 06, 2018, 03:45:20 AM
Break the costs down.
It was £60 for labour, the rest being parts and postage.
When you consider certain top flight franchised dealers in parts of the UK are now charging upwards of £75/hour + VAT at 20% it seems fair price to me, especially when you consider the calibre of the guy.
Yep, that sounds reasonable i guess. The main thing is Toner has piece of mind that the carbs are "tip top".
Quote from: mr72 on August 06, 2018, 09:03:24 AM
I think the 117.5 jets were sized to work with the restrictor plates in place. If you remove the restrictor plates, the 120 jets may wind up making it too lean, but you can sort that out yourself down the line. 122.5 or 125 jets were stock without restrictor plates.
FYI.
I don't think the restrictor plates are going to make any difference to how the carbs mix the air/fuel ratio. It doesn't matter how much suction there is at the intake, the air/fuel mixture at the carbs will be reasonably constant. You just won't be able to make full power.
I could be wrong though. My DR-Z had a similar restrictor, I just took it out and there was no need for a re-jet. But boy did the power output increase.
Quote from: Toner on August 06, 2018, 01:59:18 PM
Mine's an EY model. I do wonder whether removing the restrictor plates would impact what jets are best and whether the manual takes that into account.
I took her out again with a full tank today up the mountains. No issues again. No bogging, no stalling so I'm happy with it.
Here's some pics of the old sliders.
They look pretty normal to me, mine are worse looking than those.
Good to hear she's running well.
Now all that's left to do is remove those darn restrictors and throw them in the ocean lol
Quote from: crackin on August 06, 2018, 02:10:47 PM
Quote from: Toner on August 06, 2018, 01:59:18 PM
Mine's an EY model. I do wonder whether removing the restrictor plates would impact what jets are best and whether the manual takes that into account.
I took her out again with a full tank today up the mountains. No issues again. No bogging, no stalling so I'm happy with it.
Here's some pics of the old sliders.
They look pretty normal to me, mine are worse looking than those.
Good to hear she's running well.
Now all that's left to do is remove those darn restrictors and throw them in the ocean lol
They're already out, lol. Don't think I'll be throwing them in the ocean when I see them going for £60 on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-GS-500-F-Restrictor-Kit-35kW-46-46-6-46-9-47-bhp-DVSA-RSA-Approved/321483435521
When the restrictor plates were fitted there will have been a certificate issued by the authorised installer, it will have included the VIN and reg numbers and acted as proof to the police and insurance company that. the machine has actually been restricted. Unlikely anyone will want to buy them if they don't have the certificate, without it they are useless.
There are a few ways to restrict a GS5, the plates you have are the most common, probably because they are quick and easy to fit. I have removed several from bikes I sold in the past. Can't say I ever saw one restricted in this way that was not jetted as stock as part of the restriction. They don't effect the carb settings, they limit how much mixture enters the engine.
Interestingly, some restriction kits are now tamperproof
https://www.morebikes.co.uk/14360/anti-tamper-device-deter-riders-illegally-derestricting-moped-motorcycle/
That's interesting Sledge, cheers.
Since they affect both vacuum and air velocity, restrictor plates like this will directly affect mixture.
A restriction to flow in the inlet tract means the carb slides won't rise as high as they would without the restriction. There will still be mixture there and in the correct ratio just not as much, in the same way it would be with a part open throttle.
Coincidentally this is how Suzuki themselves restrict the bike, not by the use of plates but by limiting how far the slides can travel in the body.
This really is simple stuff and I am somewhat surprised the theory behind all this never occurred to you what with you considering yourself to be a GS5 carb expert and all that :D
Quote from: sledge on August 07, 2018, 10:41:49 AM
A restriction to flow in the inlet tract means the carb slides won't rise as high as they would without the restriction.
I think that's where you are making your error.
Quotewhat with you considering yourself to be a GS5 carb expert and all that :D
You keep saying this, but you do realize it's only you who says this, right?
Look, Toner, I'm happy to help if I can as I am sure dozens of others on this forum are. But Sledge is not helping you, so I strongly suggest you double check everything he says. For that matter, you should double-check everything I say, and everything any other amateur home motorcycle mechanic on this forum says, because as well-meaning as we might all be, many of us are learning this along with you and make mistakes along the way. Sledge can and does often know what he's talking about, he just doesn't know how to talk to people like a human being and he can't seem to tell when he's wrong.
I have seen you interfering again and telling Toner he may have a problem but seen nothing from Toner to suggest he actually has one it's quite the opposite in fact. Not have I seen him asking for help or advice. If that changes all he needs to do is contact the very knowledgable and experienced person who did the work on his carbs and discuss it with him, the same person who you are questioning and undermining and has forgotten more about motorcycle carbs than you are ever likely to know. Not listen to someone on the other side of the world who has no experience whatsoever of restricted GS5s and the setting up of UK spec carbs and who up until 2 years ago had never even seen the inside of a GS5 carb and in fact only recently realised his was full of non standard parts.
How's that for sensible advice :thumb:
Some more sensible advice. This is taken from the factory service manual and describes how our carbs operate.
"" The carburetor is a variable venturi type. The venturi cross sectional area is increased or decreased automatically by the piston valve which moves according to negative pressure present in the downstream side of the venturi. Negative pressure is admitted into the diaphragm chamber through 2 orifices provided in the piston valve" "
"" Rising negative pressure overcomes the spring force causing the piston valve to rise to increase the said area and thus prevent the air velocity from increasing. This air velocity in the venture passage is kept constant for improved fuel atomization and for securing the optimum ratio of fuel air mixture" "
So......in simple terms......
The height or distance the slides (piston valves) move is dependant on the amount of vacuum (negative pressure) downstream of the venturi (inlet tract). It therefore stands to reason that if there is a restriction that limits the amount of negative pressure, say from a restrictor plate, the slides will not rise as high. Furthermore because the air velocity in the venturi remains constant regardless of the position of the slide the mixture ratio remains optimum.
It's just the amount of mixture delivered that changes.
Again....it's all there in black and white :dunno_black:
Error?
Me?
Errr...I don't think so :D
This forum: *mentions carburetor parts*
Sledge:
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/191/035/135.png)
Well, I can't comment on this disagreement as I my knowledge of carbs is limited. I would like to thank you both for helping me though.
This forum has been very kind to me and is my favourite thing about owning a GS so I don't like this thread being the cause of a conflict.
My second favourite thing about owning a GS is taking it on long rides in the mountains so here's a few pics from my last trip.
Cheers guys. Bike is still running great. :)
(https://i.imgur.com/WcAuLny.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/J9ZVaMf.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/h1TdAJ1.jpg?1)
Changing the ability to breath, does not change the mixture....Point Sledge :cheers: