Can't quite place it..
https://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/d/2007-suzuki-bergman-400/6672540506.html
Maybe they kept the back wheel and the outer two are basically training wheel style mounted? :dunno_black:
I had to look cause was wondering more and more,..interesting,...
Well, once I got through repeating "why... why?" over and over, it occurs to me that this is a great way to double the weight of a scooter and prevent it from cornering.
I've seen one of these things on the road before. At first, I was like "Huh, I've never seen a trike like that..." but then once I noticed the wheel in the middle and was extremely confused. The kit thing looked pretty professional, so my best guess was that some manufacturer sells a trike conversion kit for the Bergman. Looks like I may have been correct. Why anyone would buy one is beyond me though, because you''re right: all it does is add weight and make the scooter corner worse... I guess it adds stability (in a straight line) but if that's what they wanted, why not just buy a miata?
Quote from: qcbaker on August 16, 2018, 12:56:31 PM
I guess it adds stability (in a straight line) but if that's what they wanted, why not just buy a miata?
Well, a Miata can corner.
In this case, you get the worst of all worlds: a vehicle that's too heavy for the drivetrain, has far too little braking, which is really a bummer since you will be plowing headlong into things you'd really like to avoid by braking, since it will understeer like a top fuel dragster.
I think this is only stable when you are getting on and off of it. But it looks like a death trap to me.
If someone wants a "motorcycle" but is terrified of leaning or for whatever reason cannot balance a two-wheel machine, then the right solution is a Can-Am Spyder. Unfortunately that's 5x the cost or more of a four-wheel-ized scooter. But at least that puts two wheels at the correct end of the vehicle.
Shocks me that the seller of this Burgman suggests it will go 90 mph. Well, it won't, but if it would, that would be a one way ticket to the ICU.
"this is only stable when you are getting on and off of it"
"once I got through repeating "why... why?" over and over"
great lines in this thread
(https://www.motohouston.com/forums/images/smilies/laughing6.gif)
I can hardly think of a faster way to ruin everything good about a motorcycle. Maybe if you're a member of the Flat Earth Society but where I am there are hills and corners and the roads have a crown to them.
Quote from: mr72 on August 16, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Well, a Miata can corner.
True, but not as well as a bike lol. Really I just meant a small vehicle where you're exposed to the wind
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In this case, you get the worst of all worlds: a vehicle that's too heavy for the drivetrain, has far too little braking, which is really a bummer since you will be plowing headlong into things you'd really like to avoid by braking, since it will understeer like a top fuel dragster.
Understeer and rollover in turns are problems for all trikes that have 2 rear wheels. As for the braking, are those extra wheels just free spinning or do they have brakes like a trailer?
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I think this is only stable when you are getting on and off of it. But it looks like a death trap to me.
If someone wants a "motorcycle" but is terrified of leaning or for whatever reason cannot balance a two-wheel machine, then the right solution is a Can-Am Spyder. Unfortunately that's 5x the cost or more of a four-wheel-ized scooter. But at least that puts two wheels at the correct end of the vehicle.
Shocks me that the seller of this Burgman suggests it will go 90 mph. Well, it won't, but if it would, that would be a one way ticket to the ICU.
The Bergman 650 will easily do 90, so I could imagine the 400 getting up to that speed, but the extra weight from the training wheels would make that a tall order I think.
Quote from: qcbaker on August 17, 2018, 03:58:03 AM
Quote from: mr72 on August 16, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
Well, a Miata can corner.
True, but not as well as a bike lol. Really I just meant a small vehicle where you're exposed to the wind
Well now. My Miata would out-corner most street motorcycles, and would certainly run off and leave pretty much any scooter on any road, corners or not.
But my point was in this case the mod essentially ruins cornering capability which on any 2-wheel vehicle is dependent nearly entirely on the ability for it to lean.
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Understeer and rollover in turns are problems for all trikes that have 2 rear wheels. As for the braking, are those extra wheels just free spinning or do they have brakes like a trailer?
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Who knows but it hardly matters because under virtually all braking the weight is transferred to the front so the front brake will do 90% of the braking. You've doubled the weight of the vehicle without increasing the braking either in terms of tire adhesion or actual brakes. If those rear wheels were hooked up to the brakes, assuming you also fitted a brake booster and whatever, they'd just lock up.
Imagine trying to brake at all in a curve on this thing. You'd understeer and skid straight out of the apex of the corner off the road.
Quote from: mr72 on August 17, 2018, 10:36:48 AM
Well now. My Miata would out-corner most street motorcycles
What do you consider a "street motorcycle"? Stock vs. stock, I would imagine that basically any 600+cc sportbike would be able to carry more speed through any given corner. The Miata can pull lateral G of ~.9G right? A GSX-R600 can pull something like 1.4 IIRC.
Not trying to start a Miata vs sportbike argument or discount the Miata, btw. I just bought an FR-S, so its not like I don't appreciate a car that's focused on handling rather than power lol.
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and would certainly run off and leave pretty much any scooter on any road, corners or not.
You're almost certainly right about that lol.
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Who knows but it hardly matters because under virtually all braking the weight is transferred to the front so the front brake will do 90% of the braking. You've doubled the weight of the vehicle without increasing the braking either in terms of tire adhesion or actual brakes. If those rear wheels were hooked up to the brakes, assuming you also fitted a brake booster and whatever, they'd just lock up.
Imagine trying to brake at all in a curve on this thing. You'd understeer and skid straight out of the apex of the corner off the road.
You're not wrong, but certainly some amount of rear wheel braking would be better than none at all, right? Though, I say that but I almost never use the rear brake on my bike, so... :dunno_black:
Quote from: qcbaker on August 17, 2018, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: mr72 on August 17, 2018, 10:36:48 AM
Well now. My Miata would out-corner most street motorcycles
What do you consider a "street motorcycle"?
A third of all street motorcycles in the us are Harleys. Among the rest, a sizable portion are either metric cruisers, old style standards, dual sports and a small number of sport bikes.
I'd guess a stock Miata will probably outcorner all but sport bikes. Mine wasn't stock.
Quote from: mr72 on August 17, 2018, 03:11:16 PM
A third of all street motorcycles in the us are Harleys. Among the rest, a sizable portion are either metric cruisers, old style standards, dual sports and a small number of sport bikes.
I'd guess a stock Miata will probably outcorner all but sport bikes. Mine wasn't stock.
I guess I forget that most people don't ride sportbikes lol. You're probably right that a Mitata will outcorner any bike that isn't a sportbike.
If you don't mind the thread drift, what all did you modify on yours?
Quote from: qcbaker on August 20, 2018, 06:04:22 AM
If you don't mind the thread drift, what all did you modify on yours?
This is an odds-n-ends thread... drift is what it's all about :)
My Miata was my first new car, I bought it in 2000. I totally loved that car, so when it came time to either replace it because it was getting old and was beginning to need work or to rebuild it, I chose to rebuild.
In my case I did a near complete restoration of the car with the idea being the eventual result to be somewhere between a track car and a regular roadster. I replaced the engine block with a later model and had the head redone, winding up with +-0.5 compression ratio in the process and probably 10+ hp and mostly more torque, ss headers, open intake with a gigantic "cone" type filter, removed the EGR and any non-essential emissions stuff, removed the carpet and built a shorty console for it, reupholstered the seats and painted the car after doing whatever bodywork needed doing. I fabricated the exhaust system myself, two stainless-steel "glass-pack" type mufflers and 2.25" tubing straight back. It was loud and quick. Being an early NB it was maybe 2250 lb and with the slight engine warming over it had maybe 160hp so it would get 0-60 in right around 6 seconds and screamed at you while it was doing it.
Suspension-wise, I stuck to 15" lightweight wheels (mini-lite knockoffs) with 205/50R15 BFG Comp 2s which were among the best tires I had on the car. Funny thing with a car like this, it's light enough that a lot of tires, especially really big tires, won't get hot enough to grip unless you are literally on the racetrack, and if you drive in the winter at all they are deadly. So getting the "right" tires was not easy. I think in the 15 years I had the car I went through 11 sets of tires so I got a pretty good idea of what worked and what didn't. Anyway, I pulled the rear sway bar and put a set of very stiff adjustable coilovers on it. Car had a Torsen LSD which with a rear sway bar and soft rear springs made for very interesting right-hand turns, but it was steer-by-throttle with the hard springs and no rear bar. I never really got the suspension totally dialed. It was maybe 1-1.5" lower than stock but being a 100% street car I needed the ground clearance and suspension travel to stay up there. On the road it had the feeling of driving a not-quite-road car, like this car was just a barely too insane to really drive on the road, but it was very livable as long as you could tolerate a hard ride and real loud exhaust.
Anyway, it was totaled in 2015 when a driver made a left turn in front of me while I was commuting to work, I hit the front right fender of that car going probably 50 mph. May she rest in peace.
I never "got" trikes unless you really want to get the worst bits of motoring and motorcycling.
Quote from: mr72 on August 20, 2018, 08:02:13 AM
*Miata Stuff*
Sounds like you basically had a racecar that was still technically street legal lol. You ever do any track days or AutoX or anything with it? I wanna try out some AutoX at some point, I think it would be a ton of fun, even if my times aren't anywhere near competitive lol.
Quote from: qcbaker on August 21, 2018, 07:07:20 AM
Quote from: mr72 on August 20, 2018, 08:02:13 AM
*Miata Stuff*
Sounds like you basically had a racecar that was still technically street legal lol.
Almost. The "feel" I was going for was more like a vintage race car. I wanted the car to have the vibe kind of like you're driving a 240Z race car on the street, which is pretty close to what it was. But with air conditioning and a radio.
Oh yeah I also built flat/plain door cards for it with straps. And it had twin center stripes like a Cobra and gumballs on the doors with the number '21'.
Actually it was kind of like the Miata version of a '73-74 911 RS.
This wasn't my first "race car for the road" type of car. But this was style points and the visceral feeling of a bonzo car, not real performance. I'm sure the car handled better earlier in its life with stock suspension and the 14" stock (super light) wheels with the Proxes T1-S tires, which were literally designed for Miata track cars. But it didn't feel as sharp and immediate with those tires and suspension.
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You ever do any track days or AutoX or anything with it? I wanna try out some AutoX at some point, I think it would be a ton of fun, even if my times aren't anywhere near competitive lol.
That always sounded like fun but I went to a number of AutoX when I was younger and saw just how easy it is to break things. Since this was my daily driver and sole transportation, I couldn't afford to smoke the clutch or crack a wheel or bend a control arm going rear end first into a curb. I saw this happen too many times. I think AutoX makes the most sense in a car that comes in on a trailer.
I did work with a guy with a similar car to mine who was the national champion in B-stock. The amount of money he put into the shocks alone, which was just revalving of the stock/original shocks since the rules don't allow swapping, was mind blowing.
Quote from: mr72 on August 21, 2018, 12:47:04 PM
That always sounded like fun but I went to a number of AutoX when I was younger and saw just how easy it is to break things. Since this was my daily driver and sole transportation, I couldn't afford to smoke the clutch or crack a wheel or bend a control arm going rear end first into a curb. I saw this happen too many times. I think AutoX makes the most sense in a car that comes in on a trailer.
I can understand burning out a clutch at an AutoX event if you try to drive harder than you're actually able, but I've never seen an event that had damaging obstacles near it. Most of the stuff I've seen is in wide open parking lots and the only thing that you can hit are cones. I agree that busting up your DD is definitely a bad idea, but I wouldn't have put AutoX as something that was that risky. I'll probably try to attend some events to get a feel for it, then if I think the risk-reward equation balances out, I'll try my hand at it lol.
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I did work with a guy with a similar car to mine who was the national champion in B-stock. The amount of money he put into the shocks alone, which was just revalving of the stock/original shocks since the rules don't allow swapping, was mind blowing.
Yeah depending on the class, people go crazy tweaking their builds just to get another thousandth of a second off their time.
In the stock class in SCCA [back then, IDK now] the rules allowed you to run any combination of parts that would have come on the car from the factory, which meant epic hunts for just the right oddball combinations of bin parts plus allowable rebuilding of stock parts within limits, such as switching stock shocks from gas to oil like in my friend's case because it can lower the car 1/2". And the thing is, EVERYONE is doing this to the limits, so you basically have to start there. Most of the B-stock Miata guys would start out by stripping the entire car on a rotisserie, media-blast off all of the sound deadening just to get the weight reduction, then bolt in the cage, paint it, and build the entire "stock" car from the frame up using every choice part the factory ever made in any combination to get that edge. Oh yeah and blueprint everything. Insane. That's how you turn a $10K used car into a $100K race car project.
Anyway, I saw my share of failures on the AutoX courses. In Austin they have a parking lot greenspace ordinance that requires islands with trees and grass, and curbs, to be sprinkled liberally throughout the pavement, so it's pretty difficult to put together an AutoX course that doesn't get close to a curb here and there. And once the car gets away from you because you lift mid-corner it can go tail-first into a curb 50 ft away pretty easily.
Quote from: qcbaker on August 17, 2018, 11:17:40 AM
What do you consider a "street motorcycle"? Stock vs. stock, I would imagine that basically any 600+cc sportbike would be able to carry more speed through any given corner. The Miata can pull lateral G of ~.9G right? A GSX-R600 can pull something like 1.4 IIRC.
This isn't quite as simple as that. Let me try to explain as best as I can. A stock miata going through a specific corner at a specific speed is at lets say .9g. If you took that same miata and slapped on a longer set of axles and put the same wheels and tires on making it say 1' wider, run it in the same corner at the same speed it will pull less than .9g. In other words more width = less g's as is measured and published.
A GSXR's essentially got no reliable comparison to a miata or any other car in this regard, cos the width (track) on a bike is basically 0. Only comparisons between cars, or between bikes make for apples to apples comparison.
You can compare average corner speeds in race tracks where they race carbs and bikes and make some conclusions if you like, or just ride the same set of corners and see where you break traction in car vs bike but IMHO, carbs and bikes are very close in max corner speeds.
The only reason you outrun cars is that in most real world situations with a max 90 highway speed, lots of stop/slow and go and people never come close to breaking traction anywhere in a car while a lot of bikers do when braking and some even while accelerating - Bikes accelerate harder, and bikers enjoy that, so they let it rip. So in town and in traffic lights we leave all the cars in the dust, get on the highway and the GS especially starts wheezing @90, where all the cars catch up and stay with you.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on August 30, 2018, 02:06:26 AM
Quote from: qcbaker on August 17, 2018, 11:17:40 AM
What do you consider a "street motorcycle"? Stock vs. stock, I would imagine that basically any 600+cc sportbike would be able to carry more speed through any given corner. The Miata can pull lateral G of ~.9G right? A GSX-R600 can pull something like 1.4 IIRC.
This isn't quite as simple as that. Let me try to explain as best as I can. A stock miata going through a specific corner at a specific speed is at lets say .9g. If you took that same miata and slapped on a longer set of axles and put the same wheels and tires on making it say 1' wider, run it in the same corner at the same speed it will pull less than .9g. In other words more width = less g's as is measured and published.
I agree it's not nearly as simple as that, but it's also not as you suggest.
lateral G force can be calculated purely with speed and turn radius. It has nothing to do with the car really. It's easier to measure in-car with a meter.
But of course this whole "out-handle" statement I made before can't be fully equated to lateral G-force measurement. In a Miata, you can (and often would) perform a cornering maneuver that exceeds the lateral grip of the car. You can intentionally break the rear loose and get the car to oversteer and tighten a corner, making the turn faster than it would be if you stayed within the limits of adhesion. On a motorcycle this would result in a crash.
But also "handling" is much more than simply how fast you can make a given corner. It's also about how controllable the vehicle is when going over the limit, how it transitions, how much braking you can apply especially while turning, how it can lay down power during a turn exit and etc. So a car with 4 tires on the ground and the ability to control camber in turns and vary roll stiffness front to rear really has a huge advantage, not to mention the fact that the driver is more physically capable of operating the car when it is over the limit. I mean, in a car you can recover from coming into a turn too hot or if it gets away at least part of the time.
It's an apples to oranges comparison anyway.
Quote from: mr72 on August 30, 2018, 08:41:27 AM
I agree it's not nearly as simple as that, but it's also not as you suggest.
lateral G force can be calculated purely with speed and turn radius. It has nothing to do with the car really. It's easier to measure in-car with a meter.
That's what I thought too.
QuoteBut of course this whole "out-handle" statement I made before can't be fully equated to lateral G-force measurement. In a Miata, you can (and often would) perform a cornering maneuver that exceeds the lateral grip of the car. You can intentionally break the rear loose and get the car to oversteer and tighten a corner, making the turn faster than it would be if you stayed within the limits of adhesion. On a motorcycle this would result in a crash.
You're right, I hadn't really considered how oversteer would effect overall cornering speed.
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But also "handling" is much more than simply how fast you can make a given corner. It's also about how controllable the vehicle is when going over the limit, how it transitions, how much braking you can apply especially while turning, how it can lay down power during a turn exit and etc. So a car with 4 tires on the ground and the ability to control camber in turns and vary roll stiffness front to rear really has a huge advantage, not to mention the fact that the driver is more physically capable of operating the car when it is over the limit. I mean, in a car you can recover from coming into a turn too hot or if it gets away at least part of the time.
It's an apples to oranges comparison anyway.
I mean, that's all true, but we're not comparing a motoGP bike to an f1 car. Of course, at their absolute limits, cars are faster. I was just talking specifically about a stock Miata vs a stock GSXR600.
Quote from: qcbaker on August 30, 2018, 09:16:11 AM
I was just talking specifically about a stock Miata vs a stock GSXR600.
Yes, which is also extremely apples to oranges. I was talking about MY Miata vs. a "most street motorcycles". If you want to consider a closer comparison between a GSXR600 and some car, the car needs to be one that is as close to a full-on race car as a GSXR600 is to a full-on race bike. So what, maybe a Lotus Elise? I think a Lotus Elise would annihilate a GSXR600 on the street or the auto-x course in terms of handling.
It's a uniqueness of the motorcycle market that near-track-ready bikes are readily available and reasonably common on normal roads. Only crazy people try to daily-drive the car equivalent.
Quote from: mr72 on August 31, 2018, 06:31:26 AM
Yes, which is also extremely apples to oranges. I was talking about MY Miata vs. a "most street motorcycles".
I fail to see how trying to compare cornering ability is apples to oranges... They're both vehicles that go around corners. You can measure how quickly each of them does it and compare the results. Lateral G was the measurement I figured would be the best way to compare the limits of both vehicles. Obviously its not perfect, in order to get an actual scientific result you'd have to run each vehicle on a track and make a bunch of measurements, but you can still compare them.
As for your Miata vs "most street motorcycles", I'll take your Miata every time. But against a supersport, I don't know :dunno_black: Your Miata, with all the work you did to it, probably corners much better than a stock one, so its totally possible it would keep up with a supersport, but I think it would be pretty close.
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If you want to consider a closer comparison between a GSXR600 and some car, the car needs to be one that is as close to a full-on race car as a GSXR600 is to a full-on race bike. So what, maybe a Lotus Elise? I think a Lotus Elise would annihilate a GSXR600 on the street or the auto-x course in terms of handling.
It's a uniqueness of the motorcycle market that near-track-ready bikes are readily available and reasonably common on normal roads. Only crazy people try to daily-drive the car equivalent.
That's a good point. If you're comparing autocross style cornering, yes, I think an Elise (and probably any Miata for that matter) is going to massively outperform basically any motorcycle. On a road race course, though, I think the difference would be much less obvious.
I think we're talking about the same thing here :)
It's just semantics.
TL;DR
"Handling" != [only] max lateral Gs
If comparing "car vs. motorcycle", it's not fair to compare a supersport motorcycle to a garden variety car, any more than it is to compare a supercar to an adventure bike.
Quote from: mr72 on August 31, 2018, 07:47:29 AM
"Handling" != [only] max lateral Gs
I agree, but I don't have access to or the wherewithal to go gather all the data necessary to make a scientifically sound judgement lol. I still think max lateral G is a good approximation of a machine's cornering ability, even if it isn't the whole story.
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If comparing "car vs. motorcycle", it's not fair to compare a supersport motorcycle to a garden variety car, any more than it is to compare a supercar to an adventure bike.
Whether or not its "fair" is sort of irrelevant, IMO. The two vehicles do the same task (go around a corner), so if your question is "which of these two vehicles accomplishes the task better", you can compare them. I'm not judging their worth, just their proficiency at a specific task. Obviously a supercar is going to corner better than an ADV bike, but that doesn't mean a comparison can't be made. The supercar is better at cornering. That doesn't mean the ADV bike isn't a "good" machine, it just means that its built to do different stuff. I feel like the focus of a Miata and a supersport motorcycle are similar enough, and even if they weren't, why not compare them?
I never liked the idea that because two things are really different, they shouldn't be compared. The whole point of comparing things is to highlight the differences between them. Even the phrase "apples to oranges" bothers me. You can absolutely compare apples and oranges lol.
It seems this debate (between you and me mostly) stems from my original statement "My Miata would out-corner most street motorcycles."
That's true enough, I think we both agree, but it somehow turned into "a stock Miata doesn't pull as many lateral Gs as a GSXR600" which is not at all what I was saying with my offhand, unscientific opinion.
With the fact that "most street motorcycles" includes a big number of adventure bikes, cruisers and touring rigs, I think that was a pretty sound opinion. The stock-Miata-vs-GSXR600 is a whole different argument, and I think a Miata is the wrong car to make a bike-vs-car comparison involving a sport bike. But it probably is interesting anyway because I bet a stock (ND) Miata would "out-corner" a stock (new) GSXR600, if we could agree on a way to measure. I mean, my Jeep Wrangler Unlimited lazily goes around the roundabout at my house at least 5-10mph faster than I can force my GS500 around the same roundabout without feeling the rear tire begin to slip, and the Wrangler has lots of margin before it begins to understeer like crazy.
But one other thing that helps here is that in my Jeep, any ordinary driver knows good and well that if you get into that roundabout too fast and it starts to slip, you panic and lift the throttle or tap the brake and it immediately will stop understeering and begin to oversteer or just grip normally, and of course if you truly find yourself over the limit in a 4-wheel vehicle with ABS I can just ram the brake to the floor and it will stop without putting me in the hospital or even at risk of scuffing a tire on a curb. On the other hand, on my GS, once you even BEGIN to feel the rear tire begin to slip you are already too far to do much of anything except try and lean in a touch more and for heaven's sake don't upset the chassis by braking or changing the throttle.
Quote from: mr72 on August 31, 2018, 09:59:13 AM
It seems this debate (between you and me mostly) stems from my original statement "My Miata would out-corner most street motorcycles."
That's true enough, I think we both agree, but it somehow turned into "a stock Miata doesn't pull as many lateral Gs as a GSXR600" which is not at all what I was saying with my offhand, unscientific opinion.
Admittedly, I turned it into that when I mentioned that GSXR600 can pull higher lateral G than a Miata. The reason I did that is because I would consider a GSXR600 a "street motorcycle", and like I said, I think max lateral G is a good indicator of a vehicle's cornering ability.
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With the fact that "most street motorcycles" includes a big number of adventure bikes, cruisers and touring rigs, I think that was a pretty sound opinion.
I agree.
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The stock-Miata-vs-GSXR600 is a whole different argument, and I think a Miata is the wrong car to make a bike-vs-car comparison involving a sport bike. But it probably is interesting anyway because I bet a stock (ND) Miata would "out-corner" a stock (new) GSXR600, if we could agree on a way to measure.
I agree with you that max lateral G is a flawed measurement. What measurement would you propose instead?
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I mean, my Jeep Wrangler Unlimited lazily goes around the roundabout at my house at least 5-10mph faster than I can force my GS500 around the same roundabout without feeling the rear tire begin to slip, and the Wrangler has lots of margin before it begins to understeer like crazy.
I would be willing to bet that has much more to do with your body position and riding technique than it does the capabilities of either machine. I'm not trying to imply that you aren't a good rider, by the way. I just know you're not a sport-oriented rider and even if you were I wouldn't expect you to be hanging off and trying to drag knees around a roundabout lol.
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But one other thing that helps here is that in my Jeep, any ordinary driver knows good and well that if you get into that roundabout too fast and it starts to slip, you panic and lift the throttle or tap the brake and it immediately will stop understeering and begin to oversteer or just grip normally, and of course if you truly find yourself over the limit in a 4-wheel vehicle with ABS I can just ram the brake to the floor and it will stop without putting me in the hospital or even at risk of scuffing a tire on a curb. On the other hand, on my GS, once you even BEGIN to feel the rear tire begin to slip you are already too far to do much of anything except try and lean in a touch more and for heaven's sake don't upset the chassis by braking or changing the throttle.
True enough, but we're not talking about which vehicle is easier to operate close at the limit of traction lol.
Even more off topic, but Jalopnik posted this video earler:
My dude is driving the HELL out of that Miata lol.
And actually slightly back on topic, that race-prepped NC miata had a lap time of 7:37. From what I can see on Wikipedia, in 2008, a race-prepped (but still street legal) GSXR600 put down a 7:17, significantly faster. Shitty camera, but video of the lap here:
Yeah once you have big enough straights for acceleration to be a big factor, the bike will win almost every time. Hard to beat 0-60 in 2.x seconds, unless you just don't have enough runway to get up to that speed and back down again before the next turn.
So, to bring this thread slightly back on topic, on my ride in to work today I noticed that there is one of those wacky Bergman trike things in my neighborhood. I guess they must be more common than I thought...
Quote from: qcbaker on September 19, 2018, 10:03:01 AM
there is one of those wacky Bergman trike things in my neighborhood. I guess they must be more common than I thought...
more than one in the world is more common than I would have thought!
I drove a miata from MN to HOuston and the only that thing was good at was hurting my a## and back!
:laugh:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/sNtLk0HCjWDRK/giphy.gif)
Quote from: cbrfxr67 on September 20, 2018, 10:59:55 AM
I drove a miata from MN to HOuston and the only that thing was good at was hurting my a## and back!
You would have hated mine then.
approximately 3x stiffer springs vs. stock. No carpet. but mine did have the early NB seats, which are better than the later NB seats (the tall "surfboard" ones) , but some think the NC and ND seats were better.
These are sports cars. Touring is not their forte.
Not to keep coming back to this, but I saw that trike thing again and I couldn't help but tell you guys. This time, I was behind the guy riding it on my drive home from work. First, I yielded to him as he pulled out onto the street from the gas station he was at. As he pulled out, he turned to the left. As he completed the turn, the left trike wheel came off the ground entirely, and he had to lean hard to the left to avoid rolling over. And that wasn't the only turn where it happened. That thing looks like a literal death trap to ride.
Quote from: qcbaker on October 10, 2018, 05:31:46 AM
That thing looks like a literal death trap to ride.
Absolutely!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8&start_radio=1&list=RDQQh56geU0X8
I can't imagine how these kinds of "trikes" can possibly pass any safety inspection in any state in the union.
That video is exactly what I thought was going to happen every time this dude went around a turn. I think the thing that bothers me the most about it, and the guy that rides it, is that there's a normal motorcycle parked right next to it in his driveway. So its not like he doesn't have access to a proper bike. I simply do not understand. I keep seeing this thing and every time I'm just like
(https://www.boetx.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/jackie-chan-300x200.png)