Hi all, first post. Not sure if this is the right place for it, but...
Don't have a gs, might go look at a rough 2004 with no fairings and a bbq grill paint job.
I've been riding for about 10 years, had enduros, standards, tourers, cruisers, full on sport bikes, ranging from ~12hp to 193rwhp.
Now I'm on a 110hp, 850lb touring cruiser (which I really like, surprisingly) and am considering a gs500 as an economical bike to try and build my skills and push my riding envelope with. I feel that some of my perishable skills have faded as I transitioned into cruiser riding, and I want something capable of being really cranked over to mess around with. I'm not looking for a hyper-speed super sport though.
My question is, do you guys think a naked gs is suitable? I would likely do fork springs, a shock, and good tires. Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Thanks in advance.
In my opinion, hell yes. Obviously, if you want to push the limit of the rider/bike combination, you have two points of improvement. Bike and rider. If you cap the bike, you'll be forced to improve the rider. The average rider will never reach the limits of their bikes, simply because they don't have the skill level to do what the bike could, theoretically, do.
So if you're thinking about improving your own skills on a more sportier ride, then hell yes, the GS500 is excellent.
Why? Exactly for the same reason as why it's a good beginner's bike. It's forgiving, it has a smooth power distribution, it is easy to mod/change, and it's a twin. Torque in the lower end, not too high a top speed. If you want to know what you can do with a "measly" 500cc bike, check out Schaaf on Youtube. He rocks his CB500 and not many people will out-ride him on the thing, especially not the way he rode before his accident.
Definitely upgrade the fork springs and the rear shock. Lineair is supposedly best if you actually intend to ride it hard instead of comfortable, but you can get a pretty good corner on progressive fork springs as well, I know from experience. The R6 rear shock is a good upgrade because it's very adjustable, which would be perfect for sportier riding. Upgrade the brake lines with steel braided ones and revise your front calliper at the very least. You only have one. Any air in the system makes is mushy, so make sure to really bleed the system well. Get a good chain and sprockets and regularly check them (also the front sprocket). Make sure all regular maintenance (by interval) is been kept up with. You could consider a thicker fork brace if you're a bit heavier. I also have the forks protruding from the steering stem plate a bit, to make it more happy to fall into corners. If you intend to ride track with it, consider crash bars and securing important nuts and bolts with pins or something.
Heck yea and don't put your cruiser down. I had some great fun on my Electraglide pushing myself to make it do what I wanted it to do!
Thanks guys, this seems like a great, active forum.
I personally prefer straight rate springs to progressives.
I love my VN2000, I find It makes me ride more often and further, because I don't fatigue on it. It's also just a cool, unique ride, and startlingly quick off the line for a half-ton of chrome and leather.
Looking at tires, it seems like upping to a 140 section rear really opens up some higher tier tires. Does the 10mm jump to 140 really slow the bike down turning or negatively effect front to rear tire ratio, if anyone has any experience with 140s?
My GS is the faired version but "cheap sportbike" is exactly how I use mine lol.
I didn't like a 140 on the rear. It made it fall into corners weirdly and it felt uneasy throughout the whole corner. I never once thought "oh jolly, this is better on a 140!". Went back to a 130 and I'll never go back to a 140. I'm running Dunlop Arrowmax Streetsmart right now and I love the things. They're not really good when cold, especially if it's wet, but when warmed up they're like glue. Incredible tyres. You can also go for some Michelin thingy I think, at least, my final choice was between the Dunlops and some Michelin Pilot somethings, I think. I originally wanted the Pirelli Sport Demons, but was told they no longer make the 130 rear tyre of that model.
Quote from: Sarasi on August 23, 2018, 06:10:34 AM
I didn't like a 140 on the rear. It made it fall into corners weirdly and it felt uneasy throughout the whole corner....I originally wanted the Pirelli Sport Demons, but was told they no longer make the 130 rear tyre of that model.
Didn't you have a 140/80? That may be part of the weird feeling. Most who tried a 140 and liked it used a 140/70. In fact that's what I'm planning to get Real Soon Now.
AFAIK they do make Pirelli Sport Demon in 130/70-17, which I discovered since that's the rear tire match for what I have in front. The Michelin Pilot Street Radial is said to last a lot longer and I can't get anyone to agree that the Sport Demons perform better, so I'm planning to get a Michelin instead of a Pirelli for the rear, but in 140/70-17.
Quote from: mr72 on August 23, 2018, 06:18:18 AM
Quote from: Sarasi on August 23, 2018, 06:10:34 AM
I didn't like a 140 on the rear. It made it fall into corners weirdly and it felt uneasy throughout the whole corner....I originally wanted the Pirelli Sport Demons, but was told they no longer make the 130 rear tyre of that model.
Didn't you have a 140/80? That may be part of the weird feeling. Most who tried a 140 and liked it used a 140/70. In fact that's what I'm planning to get Real Soon Now.
AFAIK they do make Pirelli Sport Demon in 130/70-17, which I discovered since that's the rear tire match for what I have in front. The Michelin Pilot Street Radial is said to last a lot longer and I can't get anyone to agree that the Sport Demons perform better, so I'm planning to get a Michelin instead of a Pirelli for the rear, but in 140/70-17.
Yes, it was a 140/80. Might have something to do with it indeed. I thought they made the Sport Demon in 130/70/17 as well, but my shop said they couldn't order them anymore, and they were willing to stick with the Pirelli price while upgrading me to any other set of tyres. I ended up choosing the Dunlops because the shop is a Triumph dealer and he'd heard really good things about the Dunlops from Bonneville riders. These tyres are specifically made for oldtimery bikes. I figured that bike is kind of similar in weight, handling and all that shizz that I'd give it a try. I wanted something that was solid in the rain and this fit that prerequisite. I'll definitely get a new set without thinking twice if this set's done.
But whatever you do, don't get ContiGo's. :cookoo:
I have sport demons on my kz650 roadburner and like them. About the sportiest classic/bias tire you can get I think. Not great life though if you run hard in a straight line.
It's obviously not a super sport. But it's no slouch while being pretty mild-mannered at the same time. It handles great, has fair brakes and decent power. The rest is up to you. In short it's a great entry to mid-level sport bike that doesn't look too much like a sport bike. Just what you describe yourself to be looking for.
Like yourself, I've had a bunch of bikes of all different sorts and sizes and I'm really enjoying the GS. It's handled every road I've thrown at it with grace and aplomb, and asked for more.
FWIW I upgraded the rear shock on my GS to a Kat600 shock soon after I got it but only recently upgraded the front springs to match. Boy what a night and day difference. It's my opinion that these should be upgraded together. The amount of confidence I have cornering has increased dramatically. I'm sure the bike could do the same thing with the original springs it just didn't FEEL like it.
I concur. I first upgraded the front and a while later (idk, a month, maybe two?) the rear. I would suggest riding a bit inbetween though, rather than changing them at exactly the same time. It's good to feel what a difference both make for your bike, individually, so that you can later on diagnose problems with your suspension more easily (differentiating between front and back).
Quote from: Cincykz on August 23, 2018, 04:33:54 AM
My question is, do you guys think a naked gs is suitable? I would likely do fork springs, a shock, and good tires. Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Thanks in advance.
Hi Cincykz,
I have done (still doing!) your plan! And is perfect!
I decided to buy a GS for 2 main reasons... learn mechanics without having the fear of disassembly a 3000 dollars engine and also ride my bike without concerns of scratch, fall, crash or explode it :2guns:
Planning to start track days with my GS in a few couples of months... just need to buy a trailer first
I have mine gs for a 14 months... I already can tell you ..Gs is a hell of a teacher... as old timers here used to say: its engine is bullet proof.. simply unbelievable! And have a friendly mechanics (2 cyl. 4 valves, air cooled and no electronics)
In these 14 months.. I have disassembled almost every bike piece... for me, it was a game changer... when you know EXACLY how each part of your bike works... :sad: simply beatiful.
Another thing is this GS forum... is priceless. Really helpful and smart members...
The only drawback.. at least here in Brazil.. is the OEM parts prices... not nice at all :nono:
But at least I do everything on my own... while having a beer! :cheers:
I am impressed with that level of dissasembly!
Well, I got one! 2004 gs500f minus the f
It's super rough cosmetically, signals don't work, no fairings, deck light for a headlight, mismatched tires black spraypaint job, scratched cases, won't start, supposedly 3k miles.
I really know how to pick 'em!
I got it to run when I got it home, but only while hooked up to a jump. Battery is dead dead. Didn't want to idle too long. Very mechanically quiet though, sounded new and smooth.
Let the tinkering begin...
Question: when up on the center stand, should both tites be down? Seemed odd to me. Rear is touching or just about touching depending on the ground.
Thanks, Pat
Hi Cincykz!
On level ground, with everything stock (tire size, shock, dogbones, etc.) the rear wheel should be off the ground. I'd say about a half inch IIRC, give or take... letting the rear wheel free to spin.
Hmm, my wheel spins on a perfect level with just about 0 clearance, but my back tire is a 140.
Put a new battery in today and got it running poorly for a couple minutes but couldn't keep it running. I'm guessing the carbs are gummed up. The bottom finger screw (idle I assume) was all the way out and made no contact with the throttle mechanism. I had it going feathering choke and throttle for probably three or four minutes, but had to start it several times. Eventually it would not start back up.
I see I have a k&n filter in the airbox.
There is also a fuel filter on one of the fuel lines, the one that comes off of the longer chicken.
I guess I will be pulling the carbs off tomorrow for a cleaning. Are the ebay rebuild kits considered acceptable for rubbers and things, or are they probably subpar?
I did get the deck light off the front of the bike and put on a daymaker LED in an ebay bucket, and it looks pretty good! Still have to wire it in, the PO cut off the female three prong for the headlight and just braided in the deck light and taped it up.
Old
New
If your rear tyre is a 140/80, then it should still spin freely on the center stand, but with next to no clearance.
Thanks!
Went a little crazy on babbits and ebay...
Fork oil/dust seals, oem oil + air filters, carb rebuild kits, chain adjuster plates(one of mine is bent into the swingarm-scary), side emblem, exhaust bolts and gaskets, misc orings and gaskets for the oil filter, drain plug, etc.
I got a used front master cylinder with lever for $23 shipped (mine appears jb-welded and has a broken lever)
A used rear rotor (mine is grooved terribly) for $30 and some new ceramic pads for the back. My front brakes look like they've never been used, might explain the crash...)
Drag bar! Bareley fits, and controls need tweaking. But it looks cool, and feels right.
Howdy, working on cleaning my carbs (don't really know what I'm doing). What is this white plastic piece from the top cap of the carb? One of the hose nipples is broken off and filled in with a wood screw. Inside the white plastic piece are a rubber diaphragm, a metal cap, and a spring. The bike would barely run and quit after a minute no matter what I do, thus the carb cleaning.
What is this thing, do I need a non broken one, and where can I get one?
Every turn on fixing up this bike reveals another maintenance disaster left by the p.o.(s?)
Any help greatly appreciated
Quote from: Cincykz on September 06, 2018, 10:49:39 AM
Howdy, working on cleaning my carbs (don't really know what I'm doing)
This is the only way to propper learning... try and exchange ideas!!! and spend some money :dunno_white:
My carb is different than yours.... this part makes no sense to me... in a few minutes, some folk will help you through.
stay positive!
Try to find it on a parts catalogue
Thanks Kito!
Sorry folks, I do believe that it is factory with the screw like that. Found a youtube video that shows it the same way.
False alarm, disregard last!
I actually don't think that screw is stock. But in any event, those white discs aren't necessary and your bike will run OK with them blocked off.
If I understand things correctly, those white discs are part of the PAIR / emissions system of the bike. They prevent the slides from bouncing up too high, by regulating the vacuum above the diaphragm.
There are a lot of posts about getting rid of as many vacuum lines as possible (I wrote some as well). This may help to eliminate a lot of the vacuum gremlins our bikes deal with. My bike still runs fine without those white discs, along with no petcock, PAIR solenoid etc...
Hmm, intruiging...
I think endo is right, that's part of the PAIR system which does no harm but still many people see fit to remove it. Capping the port with a screw seems like part of a removal attempt.
Ummm.....
Interesting development(s)
The second carb I did, the mid main jet (60) was not screwed into its spot, but rather was loose in the float bowl. Carbs all cleaned, new orings, etc. I also did not have the tiny orings under the top covers (they are there now). I used the K&L kits.
Put everything back together, no start. I went to check and see if i had fuel in the bowls by draining the left one. It drained gas indefinitely. I had to close the screw. At least a pint. Checked the right carb, couple of drops, then dry. Left carb again, dripping indefinitely.
I'm guessing I messed something up. Lol.
Any gurus can point me in the right direction? I think I will order the haynes book.
Thanks folks
Huge amount of fuel from left carb, and jet loose as it was when i pulled the bowl.
Did you shut off the fuel petcock before draining it? All that gas came from somewhere. The only place that much could come from would be the tank. Either you forgot and left it in prime, or your petcock isn't working properly. Also your right carb has either a stuck needle valve, severely maladjusted float, or the supply line is somehow blocked. In your rebuild, did you replace the needle valves and seats? If not, you should. While you have them out, blow a bit of air through the passage to make sure they're clear. Then check/set the float height and verify fuel level (and presence) once they're back in place.
I did replace the needle valves and seats. I noticed the old ones were marked 1.5 and the new ones 2.0, opening in the new ones did appear slightly larger. Anybody know which size is correct? I thought the float heights looked about right, but to be honest I'm not sure if I measured correctly. Thanks for the help!
Quote from: Cincykz on September 08, 2018, 01:17:56 AM
I did replace the needle valves and seats. I noticed the old ones were marked 1.5 and the new ones 2.0, opening in the new ones did appear slightly larger. Anybody know which size is correct? I thought the float heights looked about right, but to be honest I'm not sure if I measured correctly. Thanks for the help!
I've never noticed they were marked or came in different sizes. Could be wrong but I wouldn't think their size would be important since they're just allowing fuel to flow into the bowl until the float shuts it off at the correct level. So long as inflowing fuel can keep up with demand, ie: fuel being sucked out of the bowl through the jets, you should be fine.
As Kilted pointed...
The problem seems to be not on the carb that the gas went indefinitely, but the other that was dry.
If the gas start to leak from the carbs apertures (holes).. then also can be a float/seating problem.
check if the pieces are seating properly.. and see if the floats have different adjusts
( if you dont have this on paper right beside you... now is time to print or buy one)
http://forum.gs500.pl/ftp/Studi/Suzuki_GS_500_E_F_1989-2009_Service_Manual.pdf
Carb is the first thing that everyone struggles... I can tell you. lol
:cheers:
http://www.bbburma.net/FloatHeight.htm
Kito, that's a great link. Thank you! My floats seem to be correct.
Update on the bike: Last night I screwed the throttle stop/idle adjust all the way out, put the choke on full, and pushed the starter. Bike started right up like a new bike. Hmm...
Ran an idled, warmed it up a bit. Idled ok with no choke (tach doesn't seem to work) I was able to limp up the road, bike will move under its own power, but throttle has to be nursed. On an idle, a rev and release causes a hang and slow return to idle.
I also received a Haynes manual and a bunch of parts yesterday (filters, gaskets, fork seals and dust covers, swingarm alignment plates to replace the bent ones from my bike's apparent past life of botched wheelies....)
I realized from the Haynes diagram that the oring on the main jet/holder/needle jet assembly was in the WRONG place (squeezed between the jet and holder instead of between the holder and the needle jet. I am going to go correct that now. It didn't look right when I saw it the first time, but without a good reference I didn't figure it out.
My jet needles are marked 5DH59. This doesn't match anything else that I've seen, is this definitely incorrect? Shop manual shows 5DH91.
Out tinkering. Thanks again folks for all your help, I hope to be a resource to others on this forum some day like you guys are to me.
Ugh. Made it worse somehow
I believe those orings are in the right place. Upon putting everything back together, realized that i had no hose plugged back into the black plastic electrical component under the right carb..... Bike runs worse now, barely started, then stalled, lots of backfires.
What plugs into that black plastic thing with the brass projection (bolted under right carb, has 2 other vacuum hoses plugged into it) Thanks folks...
Update - vacuum petcock wasnt functioning properly. Back working. Finally got it running almost as it should. Still not quite perfect, but ridable. Will idle about 1150rpm and pulls reasonably smoothly. Changed the oil, it was awful, probably 20% gas and full of sludge. I'm confident enough in
it's running mechanics to put tires on it now... Needs a chain too. Will probably do fork seals and new front mc in the morning. I guess the time has come to order fork springs too....
Also, my speedo rests at 30mph and climbs from there. Are these servicable or tamperproof by design? Odo still works proper, I'd rather not loose the 3.5k odo...
Clacking from top end after revving? If idling fully warm and i rev to about 5k i get a couple of faint clacks from the top end, on the way back down as rpm drops. Not too loud, just a clack clack clack as revs settle back from 5k to idle. I'm all stock and suspect with pods or a pipe you probably wouldn't hear it unless you were listening to the valve cover.
Happens in neutral or in gear with clutch pulled.
Any ideas? Valve clearance? Cam chain? Hopefully not a shredded motor, I just ordered $400 in tires, suspension, and chain :/
could be camshaft end play but I haven't heard it just like that coming down to idle, only at idle. It goes "clack-clack...clack-clack.." repeating about every 1.5 seconds or so.
Hmm, searching around in here I see theres some orange plastic on the starter clutch/rotor under the left cover. I noticed some small brittle orange plastic shards in the bottom of my oil catch can. My oil pan wasn't spotless before I started, and in an effort to comfort myself I figured that it must have already been there. Now I'm wondering - could a problem in there give me the clacking I heard on dropping revs? I wonder if I have a magnet bouncing around. Bike still starts fine though... I'm starting to wonder if the 3k on the clock is 103k...
I wondered about that myself 72. The sound is fairly faint. Now I'm worrying about orange plastic in the oil too! Yikes lol.
Quote from: Cincykz on September 18, 2018, 05:23:43 AM
Hmm, searching around in here I see theres some orange plastic on the starter clutch/rotor under the left cover. I noticed some small brittle orange plastic shards in the bottom of my oil catch can. My oil pan wasn't spotless before I started, and in an effort to comfort myself I figured that it must have already been there. Now I'm wondering - could a problem in there give me the clacking I heard on dropping revs? I wonder if I have a magnet bouncing around. Bike still starts fine though... I'm starting to wonder if the 3k on the clock is 103k...
check this out
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=63817.msg758842#msg758842
Hummm..... I have to study up on this. Thanks Kito with the good link as usual. Would these things make you guys nervous about proceeding with my build? I already ordered about $500 in parts (tires, brakes, suspension, oem bits, etc..) in addition to the $500 i spent on the bike. I figured these were pretty bulletproof and a lightly crashed 3k mile 04 would be a good savable bike. I was happy to get it running after sitting for who knows how long (maybe 10 yrs?) I'm all in at this point, i guess just proceed and hope for the best!
I guess the upshot is I've ordered almost everything, so I guess 1k to $1200 is really pretty reasonable for a good handling streetbike.
FWIW I paid $900 for my GS and wound up spending another $900 on basically immediate repairs, plus a lot of my own labor. I could have probably spent a bit over $2K and gotten one that was as well sorted right off the bat but #1 I wouldn't have learned everything I learned and #2 I still wouldn't have been absolutely sure of everything being 100% like I am after doing the work myself.
In my town, it seems like $2000-2500 is about the range you pay for a basic running drive-it-for-a-year kind of motorcycle, pretty much regardless of what bike it is, age, etc. You pay extra to get a bike in immediately usable condition with some other premium (Euro bike, top-line model). Talking basic bikes here. Doesn't matter if it's an EX500, Rebel, GS500, old UJM, DR350, whatever, this seems to be the cost. When I look at a $1K bike I figure it'll cost another $1K to get it ready to ride reliably.
I know there are exceptions and screamin' deals, just like there are folks who will pay $3000 for that mint-looking SV650 only to find the crank bearing is gone after a month. It's just a rule of thumb for me. It'll cost $2000-2500 to get a basic bike that will be reliable and usable.
So if you're only $1200 in then I'd say you're ahead of the game by a pretty big margin.
Definitely, if I end up in it for 1300 or 1400 I'll be very content. Just hoping to not finish up just in time for a new motor. We'll see! It runs pretty well and is overall pretty quiet besides the faint clack on decel, I'm going to say she has healthy bones.
well FWIW mine might make the clacking noise on decel, who knows. It's got a chopped yoshimura race muffler on it, it's pretty loud and crackles on decel. Hard to hear much mechanical except at idle.
About the money....
Every time that I think ... I am putting too much in it,,, I remembered that not only I am having a PROPER motorcycle mechanical training, but I am also saving a lot in labor cost.
True! And I bought this as a project as much as anything else, I just enjoy complaining! I'll be happy when she's perfect.
Further note, if trying to hold 2000rpm with the throttle in neutral, the bike will get to about 2k, you will feel/hear a very faint clunk or knock, revs drop 4 or 5 hundred, and start climbing again, then hit about 2k and clunk and drop again, and so on. This is all with a steady throttle (just cracked open). Mechanical problem? Tuning issue?
Any ideas would be appreciated
Quote from: Kito on September 10, 2018, 04:47:48 AM
As Kilted pointed...
The problem seems to be not on the carb that the gas went indefinitely, but the other that was dry.
Have you checked if your carbs are starving on fuel?... This could go something like. this:
2k rpm... sipping more gas that is being provided to the carbs...
lower than 2k.. the other way around.... make it somehow cyclic.
I am not the more experienced mechanical here.. but if is to brainstorm.. this is my idea.. :embarassed:
Cincyks, my bike does basically the same thing. I think it has to do with that throttle position being right at the point between the pilot and mid jets, but that's honestly just a guess. Someone with more in-depth knowledge of the carbs will have to explain it. Sorry :dunno_black:
Better question is why are you doing that with the throttle in the first place?
Good points both. Just realized that i had the tps off and never readjusted it per ohms or whatever. I might go try and check that now.
Quote from: Cincykz on September 21, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Good points both. Just realized that i had the tps off and never readjusted it per ohms or whatever. I might go try and check that now.
Might help. If it does, let me know so I can try and replicate the results on my bike, since mine does the same thing.
in other news, my old '92 GS with first-gen carbs doesn't do this.
But this, by the way, is one big reason why trying to get a dual-carburetor bike to idle fast using the throttle stop screw is a fool's errand. With the throttle barely open there is extremely variable air flow through there. It's not very precise at all.
I'd say try this and watch the slide position while doing it (of course, airbox and tank off...). If the slides are dropping or moving around a lot then that explains it.
The TPS might be part of the issue, IDK. The smog stuff on the later bikes is over my head.
Hmm. Haynes is a bit vague on testing, and Suzuki seems worse. Assuming I measured correctly, my resistance (1) is 77% of resistance (2) at WOT. 76% is the goal. Also, I then disconnected the tps and had 0 difference in running. Rode up an down the road the very same. A big part of me wants to remove the tps, the vacuum switch, the vacuum lines to the white plastic thingies... I think this bike is a little overcomplicated for what it is.
If you were local (I assume you're not), I'd say a big part of you should come get my spare set of '92 carbs and rebuild them with $30 worth of parts.
I know this is going up quite a few comments but I just wanted to add this:
Last year when I changed a few gaskets on my bike, I had the orange bits of epoxy make an appearance too. Most of them were in the oil screen. Pics of it here, starting halfway down the page:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=70880.320
I read many threads on here about it... as well as checked with my bike inspection mechanic... and what I found was that if the magnets are all secure, entact and without cracks, all should be good. The "extra" epoxy on the edges of the magnets is a common thing to flake/break off unfortunately.
That would be tempting 72. Thanks showbiz, I think I will be ordering ann oil pan gasket and a left side cover gasket, and see what I have in there. Im surprised epoxy from the magneto makes it to the oil, shouldnt it be dry in there?