Hello everybody,
I had arm injury so I haven't been able to ride my GS for 3 months.
I haven't touch it at all,i haven't turn it on,nor did i drain tank.
I want to start riding it again these days.
What should i do now,because I'm afraid I won't damage it if I just turn it on and start riding?
PS
what's the max period for not riding bike at all,like i did now,and not have to worry about something goes wrong?
You may need to charge the battery.
3 months isn't super long in the grand scheme of things. I'd maybe crank it a bit without the choke on to get the oil moving. Then fire it up and take it easy for the first miles.
All the usual periodic maintenance stuff applies. Lube the chain, check tire pressure, if you're coming up on an oil change, go ahead and do it early. Same applies to any other scheduled maintenance.
The biggest worry (for me anyway) would be condensation in the fuel. But that's going to depend on your local weather and the type and quantity of fuel in it. Water settles to the bottom of gasoline so if you drain fuel from your carbs into a clear vessel, you'll see if there's any water in there or not.
In short. Unless you've had a monsoon, you probably don't need to do anything special after three months. Check the oil, top off the fuel, take it easy for the first bit.
Kilted pretty much said it all :thumb:
But I did want to ask, where has your GS been for those 3 months? What kind of temps, exposure to rain, etc..? Was the fuel tank full or half or low?
Here in Western PA, sometimes it's hard to ride as much as I'd like to. But I do push the limits a bit. The longest I can remember my GS sitting was probably 2 months... and I had no issues... but when it's parked, it's in my nice heated garage/basement.
@Kilted,OK,thanks for help.As for condensation in fuel,I have tank half full.Weather was rainy for 7-8 days in those 3 months,but I have bike covered.
@ShowBizWolf,It's been parked in front of my apartment.Temperature was between 90-72 degrees.I covered it so it didn't get wet.Tank was half full.
In those temps, I wouldn't worry much about condensation. Just get out there and enjoy what's left of the season. :D
Quote from: Kilted1 on September 09, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
The biggest worry (for me anyway) would be condensation in the fuel. But that's going to depend on your local weather and the type and quantity of fuel in it. Water settles to the bottom of gasoline so if you drain fuel from your carbs into a clear vessel, you'll see if there's any water in there or not.
I thought the same... but as he has got about a half tank.. the fuel will be sipped from the tallest petcock inside the tank (not the reserve) .
So if is a bit of water on the bottom will soon mix (or at least will try) with the gas in the tank in the first kilometers....
I would go.. for a ride to get rid of this gas... and then top fill the tank.
My thoughts..
cheers :cheers:
...or fill it up at the nearest station to dilute the less than stellar gas that's in there.
3 or 4 months is usually fine for the bike to sit, even with 10% ethanol fuel . You don't usually see problems until the bike has sat for ~6 months without storage techniques.
Hi guys,
I have problem with my GS that bugs me for sometime now.
Problem is in fuel petcock.
Bike runs fine when petcock is set to ''reserve''but not when it's set to ''ON''.
When i set petcock to ''ON'' bike runs for 1/4 mile and then it starts to lose power and starts to ''lunge'' and then it's shuts down.
Since I finally have a more time,and since the weather is nice,I decided to work on bike as much as i can.
I removed the tank and fuel petcock,and i poured out fuel from tank as much as I could,but there is still half of a gallon or so...
I tried to clean fuel petcock because I heard that could be problem because it can clogged sometimes,but I think it's clean-I only remove those spring and blow air through it.
I'll go and buy fuel tomorrow,but is there anything i can do to fix that petcock or whatever is blocking it to run in ''ON'' position?
Should and with what can I clean tank,since i remove it form the bike and would pouring out old fuel (don't forget i still have half of gallon in it) and pouring in new one do good for the bike?
And lastly,most important thing.
I marked fuel hoses that go on petcock,but unfortunately,gas washed out marking and now I'm left without knowing which hose goes where...
How can I find out where to connect hoses to petcock?
Thank you all and kind regards,
Petar
Hi, There are posts on thé forum That address that. There are diagrams in the factory manual but I believe there is an error in the diagram.
herennow is right, the diagrams in the manuals and on parts sites are wrong.
Petar, this should help ya... it's the wiki link where you'll find the CORRECTED diagrams:
http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Main.HoseRouting
Petcock replacement is pretty common from what I've seen over the years. It was the first repair I had to do when I bought my GS years ago.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on September 11, 2018, 01:03:38 PM
It was the first repair I had to do when I bought my GS years ago.
The first repair I had to do was to replace the entire front end of the bike after I crashed it... :oops:
Petar, as for your problem, replacing the petcock may fix it, but its not necessarily be the first thing I would recommend. I would inspect all fuel lines to make sure they aren't clogged or haven't swollen internally/dry rotted. Because your bike runs when the petcock is in the RES position, that means that the vacuum actuation is still working properly in the frame petcock. That's the part that fails if the petcock is going to fail, for the most part. Usually when those fail, the bike only runs on PRI.
Hope you get your issue sorted.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on September 11, 2018, 01:03:38 PM
herennow is right, the diagrams in the manuals and on parts sites are wrong.
Petar, this should help ya... it's the wiki link where you'll find the CORRECTED diagrams:
http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Main.HoseRouting
Petcock replacement is pretty common from what I've seen over the years. It was the first repair I had to do when I bought my GS years ago.
@hereenow,Thanks for warning about wrong diagram!
@SnowBizWolf Thanks for link.
My GS is from 2003,and those diagrams skipped my year of production,but I guess it's the same,right?
I'm looking at that diagram,but my petcock looks different.
Also,when i read what it says on petcock itself,the positions are completely different from that diagram.
By the way,why does it say ''OUT'' instead of ''PRI'' on bottom connector?
Plus,on the second photo,there is smaller connector then others.
Here are the photos:
Is my petcock different,or I can't read plain diagram? :dunno_black:
@qcbaker,I'm sorry to hear you had crash,but you know how they say-it happens to everybody even the best :thumb:
Yes,I won't replace petcock,until i ran out of options.
Will it help if I blow air through those hoses from ''ON'',''Res''or ''Pri''?
Quote from: Petar on September 11, 2018, 01:35:07 PM
@qcbaker,I'm sorry to hear you had crash,but you know how they say-it happens to everybody even the best :thumb:
Yes,I won't replace petcock,until i ran out of options.
Will it help if I blow air through those hoses from ''ON'',''Res''or ''Pri''?
That's what I would do. If you can blow air through with minimal effort, the lines are probably okay I think. The line from the tank petcock to the ON port on the frame petcock may be clogged if the bike is only running on RES/PRI.
Alternately, the inlet in the tank could be clogged somehow. ON uses the higher one, and RES/PRI use the lower one. If the higher inlet in the tank is clogged, you could also get the same symptoms you describe.
Quote from: qcbaker on September 12, 2018, 05:21:42 AM
Quote from: Petar on September 11, 2018, 01:35:07 PM
@qcbaker,I'm sorry to hear you had crash,but you know how they say-it happens to everybody even the best :thumb:
Yes,I won't replace petcock,until i ran out of options.
Will it help if I blow air through those hoses from ''ON'',''Res''or ''Pri''?
That's what I would do. If you can blow air through with minimal effort, the lines are probably okay I think. The line from the tank petcock to the ON port on the frame petcock may be clogged if the bike is only running on RES/PRI.
Alternately, the inlet in the tank could be clogged somehow. ON uses the higher one, and RES/PRI use the lower one. If the higher inlet in the tank is clogged, you could also get the same symptoms you describe.
OK.
And what about that position ''OUT'' on petcock,what does that means?
Shouldn't there be ''Pri'' instead?
PS
Will it damage bike if i run it on reserve always?
I don't have problems running it on reserve,if it won't damage it that is.
Quote from: Petar on September 12, 2018, 06:07:25 AM
OK.
And what about that position ''OUT'' on petcock,what does that means?
Shouldn't there be ''Pri'' instead?
OUT is the line that goes from the frame petcock to the carbs, I believe. PRI and RES both receive fuel from the RES line from the tank, so there isn't an additional PRI fuel line. See the below diagram:
(https://i.imgur.com/7ZmSBzf.jpg)
Quote
PS
Will it damage bike if i run it on reserve always?
I don't have problems running it on reserve,if it won't damage it that is.
You won't do any damage to the bike, but you will lose the reserve capability. If you run out of fuel, you're stuck. You should try to fix the problem so you can run the bike on ON, and if you run out of fuel you can switch to RES and ride to the nearest gas station.
Quote from: Petar on September 12, 2018, 06:07:25 AM
OK.
And what about that position ''OUT'' on petcock,what does that means?
Shouldn't there be ''Pri'' instead?
PS
Will it damage bike if i run it on reserve always?
I don't have problems running it on reserve,if it won't damage it that is.
Reserve and Prime use the same hose and pickup in the tank. Prime bypasses the vacuum cutoff in the petcock. It's used to allow fuel to flow when the bike isn't running to prime the system. "OUT" is the one that goes to the carbs. The smaller line on the back of the petcock is for carb vacuum to turn the fuel on when switched to "ON" or "RES".
You could run it in "RES" and not cause any problems, but if you run out of gas, you'll just be stuck since you have no reserve. That's what it's for since we don't have a fuel gauge. On bikes that do have a gauge, there typically is no reserve.
The main and reserve lines are also marked on the tank valve, so you can just match those up. Good idea to mark them though. I used different color tubing for mine.
Sounds like you're getting close! :cheers:
Hi again guys,
I manage to connect all hoses where they need to go,but one hose broke because it was pretty stretch up.
Hose that broke was the one that goes from tank to ''Reserve'' on petcock.
Here is a picture of it:
I would like to know is there universal hose that can fit most of the bikes,or I need identical hose for GS500?
If there's universal hose,please tell me what do I need to look and what dimensions do I need?
I really hope I can go to Motorcycle shop and buy replacing hose.
Thanks for everyone who helped :thumb:
Petar, this wiki link should give you most of the info you need:
http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Maintenance.ReplaceFuelLines
Quote from: qcbaker on September 12, 2018, 12:37:55 PM
Petar, this wiki link should give you most of the info you need:
http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Maintenance.ReplaceFuelLines
Great!Thanks :cheers:
Hello again everybody,
My fuel hose finally arrived today,so I went and connect it to petcock.Then when I started the bike,at first it didn't want to start at all,it only made that sound of trying to start.Then I after 6-7 times,bike started normally (with choke ON),but when I twisted the throttle,it started to make loud popping sound from exhaust.
Now,every time when I add throttle,it pops.
Do you know what could be causing this problem and is it dangerous to bike?
PS
just for info,I drained out 90% of old fuel and tank up new 95 fuel,and i also charged battery.
Hope to hear from you guys.
Popping/backfiring when adding throttle is usually a sign that the bike is running rich. First thing I would check for that would be the air filter. Make sure it's not clogged or excessively dirty. What does the bike do when you back the choke off?
Quote from: qcbaker on September 21, 2018, 10:18:53 AM
Popping/backfiring when adding throttle is usually a sign that the bike is running rich. First thing I would check for that would be the air filter. Make sure it's not clogged or excessively dirty. What does the bike do when you back the choke off?
I couldn't take off tank because side bolts were so tight I just couldn't unscrew them.
So I unscrew two bolts that were beneath tank and then I took it off.
Since those two side bolts are ''unscrewable'' I can't reach air filter,but I did tried to blow it with my mouth to clean it that way at least.
I tried to spray WD-40,but it didn't help.
Since I always start with choke I started it this time too.I haven't start it without choke,but since it's night and it's raining,I can check that tomorrow if the weather clears.
Quote from: Petar on September 21, 2018, 10:45:16 AM
Since I always start with choke I started it this time too.I haven't start it without choke,but since it's night and it's raining,I can check that tomorrow if the weather clears.
I don't mean starting without choke, I mean starting it up with the choke on (don't add any throttle), waiting for it to warm up a bit (~2-3 minutes, still don't add any throttle), then backing the choke off. Once the weather clears up, post back and let us know what happens.
Quote from: qcbaker on September 21, 2018, 11:11:52 AM
Quote from: Petar on September 21, 2018, 10:45:16 AM
Since I always start with choke I started it this time too.I haven't start it without choke,but since it's night and it's raining,I can check that tomorrow if the weather clears.
I don't mean starting without choke, I mean starting it up with the choke on (don't add any throttle), waiting for it to warm up a bit (~2-3 minutes, still don't add any throttle), then backing the choke off. Once the weather clears up, post back and let us know what happens.
Oh,now i get it.OK,as soon as weather clears I will get back with info,but it could take some time because forecast is really bad,they even warn us to stay home if possible.
Quote from: Petar on September 21, 2018, 09:14:52 AM
Hello again everybody,
My fuel hose finally arrived today,so I went and connect it to petcock.Then when I started the bike,at first it didn't want to start at all,it only made that sound of trying to start.Then I after 6-7 times,bike started normally (with choke ON),but when I twisted the throttle,it started to make loud popping sound from exhaust.
Now,every time when I add throttle,it pops.
Do you know what could be causing this problem and is it dangerous to bike?
PS
just for info,I drained out 90% of old fuel and tank up new 95 fuel,and i also charged battery.
Hope to hear from you guys.
Guessing it wouldn't start at first because the new fuel lines were dry. If you didn't flip the petcock to prime, it would take some cranking to get the initial fuel flowing. When you drained the gas, did you also drain the carb bowls? If not, it isn't a disaster, but that fuel is less than fresh. It may take a bit to run it out. But it's not so old as to be likely to cause issues.
It's probably backfiring because of running on choke and maybe your plugs are a bit fowled. You could pull them and either replace them or just clean them up with an old toothbrush if needed.
When the weather clears, fire it up and let it idle on choke for a few minutes, slowly backing off the choke. Don't try to rev it up until it's idling smoothly with the choke at least halfway off. If it's still running funny try cleaning or replacing the plugs if you haven't already.
It was running fine not that long ago, right? It shouldn't take all that much to get it back on the road. Just a bit of TLC is all. :)
Quote from: Kilted1 on September 21, 2018, 05:19:42 PM
Quote from: Petar on September 21, 2018, 09:14:52 AM
Hello again everybody,
My fuel hose finally arrived today,so I went and connect it to petcock.Then when I started the bike,at first it didn't want to start at all,it only made that sound of trying to start.Then I after 6-7 times,bike started normally (with choke ON),but when I twisted the throttle,it started to make loud popping sound from exhaust.
Now,every time when I add throttle,it pops.
Do you know what could be causing this problem and is it dangerous to bike?
PS
just for info,I drained out 90% of old fuel and tank up new 95 fuel,and i also charged battery.
Hope to hear from you guys.
Guessing it wouldn't start at first because the new fuel lines were dry. If you didn't flip the petcock to prime, it would take some cranking to get the initial fuel flowing. When you drained the gas, did you also drain the carb bowls? If not, it isn't a disaster, but that fuel is less than fresh. It may take a bit to run it out. But it's not so old as to be likely to cause issues.
It's probably backfiring because of running on choke and maybe your plugs are a bit fowled. You could pull them and either replace them or just clean them up with an old toothbrush if needed.
When the weather clears, fire it up and let it idle on choke for a few minutes, slowly backing off the choke. Don't try to rev it up until it's idling smoothly with the choke at least halfway off. If it's still running funny try cleaning or replacing the plugs if you haven't already.
It was running fine not that long ago, right? It shouldn't take all that much to get it back on the road. Just a bit of TLC is all. :)
I did turn petcock to prime for 5-10 seconds.I didn't drain carb bowls.I don't have ratchet to remove sparkplug,but I will buy it if necessary.Yes,it was running fine until I drained fuel and put new.
Just for info,will backfire/popping damage bike or it's not big issue?
Quote from: Petar on September 22, 2018, 04:41:17 AM
I did turn petcock to prime for 5-10 seconds.I didn't drain carb bowls.I don't have ratchet to remove sparkplug,but I will buy it if necessary.Yes,it was running fine until I drained fuel and put new.
Just for info,will backfire/popping damage bike or it's not big issue?
If you still have the factory toolkit (under the seat, near the taillight) there should be a plug wrench in there. A little popping shouldn't hurt any thing in the short term. I've seen backfiring burst a muffler like a balloon, rather comical at the time but not an every day occurrence.
One more suggestion for when you're able to get out and tinker with it again. Drain the stale fuel out of the carb bowls. Let it run completely dry, close them up and flip to prime to let the bowls refill with the fresh fuel.
The minor popping shouldn't damage anything, but actual backfiring is not good for the exhaust long term. A couple backfires here and there shouldn't really hurt, but over time stuff like that can burn away or otherwise damage the insulating material in the muffler, which isn't good. I've never heard of a backfire actually destroying a muffler the way Kilted describes, but I guess it isn't outside the realm of possibility...
As for your bike, Petar, if the bike ran with no issues before you replaced the fuel lines, I'm not really sure what would have changed that would cause it to suddenly run rich. It could very well be that your plugs are a bit fouled up from running it on full choke for a while, and that's causing it to not completely burn all the fuel each time the cylinder fires, which sends the unburnt fuel into the exhaust. The unburnt fuel combusts there, causing the popping/backfiring. If you can remove the spark plugs and inspect them, that could help eliminate that possibility.
Quote from: qcbaker on September 24, 2018, 06:22:57 AM
The minor popping shouldn't damage anything, but actual backfiring is not good for the exhaust long term. A couple backfires here and there shouldn't really hurt, but over time stuff like that can burn away or otherwise damage the insulating material in the muffler, which isn't good. I've never heard of a backfire actually destroying a muffler the way Kilted describes, but I guess it isn't outside the realm of possibility...
My bike backfires if I open the throttle too quickly whilst it's still cold (e.g. taking off from a light) - I think you can burn your exhaust valves if you're not careful, which definitely concerns me far more than whatever happens to the muffler!
Hello guys,
I apologize for not reporting status about my bike sooner.The weather was crazy and I caught a cold.
Anyway,I went to check my bike today,but I couldn't start it.
The lights and panel bulbs were on,but bike couldn't start when I pulled clutch and press power button.
It just made that sound of trying to start,but it couldn't..
Now I'm recharging battery,but what worries my most it that the battery is 4 months old,and I recharged it 2 weeks ago.
How can it lose power so fast?
@Kilted1 Oh yeah,I have plug wrench in toolkit.However I read that it may destroy sparkplugs if they are overtighted.Can I just tight them until they don't move anymore?
How can I know if the plugs are bad and they need cleaning?
Once I start to drain fuel from carb bowls,it should only leak fuel that was in carb and not in tank,right?
If you could please tell me,how exactly do I drain carb,should I unscrew that small screw and that's it,or is there something else I should do?
@qcbaker I will try to remove plugs,but I don't know if they are bad,or they need cleaning?Can you tell me what should I look once I remove them?
@Kookas,I will try to fix it :)
EDIT:I found info on how to drain carb bowls,but when I tried to do it,the screw head from drain screw was damaged and unscrewable.
It was so damaged that I can barely place screwdriver on top of it.
I sprayed it with WD-40,but I think it's unfixable.
Is there any other solution?
Yeah, the plug wrench in the kit isn't great, but it should be sufficient. Any wrench can destroy things if over-torqued. The plugs need to be tight enough that they don't work loose but they often get tightened far beyond what's needed. I'm guessing you don't have a torque wrench but just snug them down and then go a little more, or as someone here put it, a "small grunt" should do it. With the toolkit wrench, it'll probably get painful on your hands before you do any damage. :)
Try an image search for "Spark plug condition" and compare what you find to your actual plugs. If they look questionable, at least they're inexpensive.
To drain fuel from the carbs, first make sure the petcock is NOT in prime. Otherwise it will just free-flow fuel from the tank. There's a small nipple on the bottom of the carb, this is the drain. I attach a bit of tubing going to a bottle but you can just put a catch can or something on the engine case to collect the drained fuel. Then there's a horizontal screw pointing at the nipple, that's the drain plug, loosen it a turn or three and the fuel will dribble out. Whichever side you do first will get a bit more than the second one as you're also draining part of the fuel supply line. Snug up the valves and you're done. Don't forget to switch the chicken to prime for a minute to refill the bowls. If you really want to be thorough you can repeat the process to also replace the fuel in the lines. That probably isn't necessary unless you have a bunch of water in the fuel. If you have the drained fuel in a clear container, any water will sink to the bottom and you'll see it like a small bubble.
All batteries lose charge over time. Charge it up and go from there. You have bigger demons right now. Best way to keep up a battery is to ride the bike often! :cheers:
Quote from: Kilted1 on October 02, 2018, 09:48:18 AM
Yeah, the plug wrench in the kit isn't great, but it should be sufficient. Any wrench can destroy things if over-torqued. The plugs need to be tight enough that they don't work loose but they often get tightened far beyond what's needed. I'm guessing you don't have a torque wrench but just snug them down and then go a little more, or as someone here put it, a "small grunt" should do it. With the toolkit wrench, it'll probably get painful on your hands before you do any damage. :)
Try an image search for "Spark plug condition" and compare what you find to your actual plugs. If they look questionable, at least they're inexpensive.
To drain fuel from the carbs, first make sure the petcock is NOT in prime. Otherwise it will just free-flow fuel from the tank. There's a small nipple on the bottom of the carb, this is the drain. I attach a bit of tubing going to a bottle but you can just put a catch can or something on the engine case to collect the drained fuel. Then there's a horizontal screw pointing at the nipple, that's the drain plug, loosen it a turn or three and the fuel will dribble out. Whichever side you do first will get a bit more than the second one as you're also draining part of the fuel supply line. Snug up the valves and you're done. Don't forget to switch the chicken to prime for a minute to refill the bowls. If you really want to be thorough you can repeat the process to also replace the fuel in the lines. That probably isn't necessary unless you have a bunch of water in the fuel. If you have the drained fuel in a clear container, any water will sink to the bottom and you'll see it like a small bubble.
All batteries lose charge over time. Charge it up and go from there. You have bigger demons right now. Best way to keep up a battery is to ride the bike often! :cheers:
Thanks for reply.
I will check spark plugs tomorrow (it's night here in Croatia).
I didn't knew battery can lose power in period of 2 weeks,that's really surprised me.
Thanks for explaining how to drain fuel,I tried few hours ago with online instruction,but that draining screw is damaged,and I can't turn it.
I tried to spray WD-40,but It's so damaged that I think I will need miracle to unscrew it.
Do you perhaps know some solution for this?
You'd have more luck using a dedicated penetrating spray/oil than standard WD-40. Maybe try some locking-pliers (vise grips), or screw extracting pliers (e.g. Engineer PZ-56), to get the drain screw out. Work it back and forth rather than trying to get it all the way out in one go to try to avoid the head shearing off.
If you need the size of some hose to drain the carbs, I use 6mm ID clear PVC.
Quote from: Petar on October 02, 2018, 12:09:54 PM
Thanks for explaining how to drain fuel,I tried few hours ago with online instruction,but that draining screw is damaged,and I can't turn it.
I tried to spray WD-40,but It's so damaged that I think I will need miracle to unscrew it.
Do you perhaps know some solution for this?
There are many threads here and on the Internet about how to work with stuck screws.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=69784.msg838865#msg838865
Heating the screw sometimes helps, but as there's gas in your carb this is definitely NOT a good option.
Otherwise you can try the vise-grip pliers, or cut a deeper notch in it to get your screwdriver to hold. Getting JIS pattern screwdrivers is a good investment if you intend to have Japanese bikes.
Else my favorite trick is to get a sharp chisel and hit the screw lightly, perpindicular and in the direction you want to turn it.
Make sure you get a replacement screw before though! Once you get that old one off, you don't want to reuse it.
@max I don't have locking pliers,but I'll ask guys at work if they have one.
Also thanks for hose dimensions,I was going to ask that once I sort this problem with screw.
@Endopotential I'm afraid that I will make even worse thing with cutting notch deeper,but I can try.
JIS screwdrivers is good idea,maybe this woudn't happened if i had those.
I will try to get locking pliers at work,because they are really expensive,maybe somebody at work have them.
As for replacement screw,what dimensions do I need?
Can I buy it at local hardware store,or do I have to order it from OEM?
Petar, if you are not able to get locking pliers or they do not help, I would look into getting a small screw extractor kit like this one (https://www.amazon.com/Tacklife-Extractor-Stripped-High-Speed-SEB04A/dp/B078RJXN7T/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1538578694&sr=8-5&keywords=screw+extractor). They have worked well for me in the past. They WILL make the screw essentially unusable afterward, but you can just replace the damaged screw with a new one. I don't personally like the idea of trying to cut or grind notches into screw heads, since there's so much potential to damage something if you slip up. A good screw extractor set solves the problem without those risks.
As for the battery losing charge, if you've been trying to start the bike since you last charged the battery, it could simply be drained. I would say to charge the battery fully, then attempt to start the bike and see what happens. If it still does not start, I would say to check your plugs. Here is a chart showing various conditions:
(https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech.com-vbulletin/779x600/80-plugs_8f17a60e9b220c40c243d24cea2e59f15be2e233.jpg)
The insluator material should be white or tan, and the electrodes should be clean and free of any residues. The main things for you to look for would be black residue on the plugs, or if the plugs are wet with fuel. If you post a picture of their condition, we can make some more recommendations as well.
Quote from: qcbaker on October 03, 2018, 08:21:01 AM
Petar, if you are not able to get locking pliers or they do not help, I would look into getting a small screw extractor kit like this one (https://www.amazon.com/Tacklife-Extractor-Stripped-High-Speed-SEB04A/dp/B078RJXN7T/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1538578694&sr=8-5&keywords=screw+extractor). They have worked well for me in the past. They WILL make the screw essentially unusable afterward, but you can just replace the damaged screw with a new one. I don't personally like the idea of trying to cut or grind notches into screw heads, since there's so much potential to damage something if you slip up. A good screw extractor set solves the problem without those risks.
As for the battery losing charge, if you've been trying to start the bike since you last charged the battery, it could simply be drained. I would say to charge the battery fully, then attempt to start the bike and see what happens. If it still does not start, I would say to check your plugs. Here is a chart showing various conditions:
(https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech.com-vbulletin/779x600/80-plugs_8f17a60e9b220c40c243d24cea2e59f15be2e233.jpg)
The insluator material should be white or tan, and the electrodes should be clean and free of any residues. The main things for you to look for would be black residue on the plugs, or if the plugs are wet with fuel. If you post a picture of their condition, we can make some more recommendations as well.
Thanks for help,I manage to unscrew it with a pliers I got from buddy at work,it was pretty easy too.
Anyway,I manage to drain carb bowls,but on the right side was much less gas then on left one.
Then I turn fuel in tank to ON and put petcock to PRIME for minute.
I used that tool from toolkit to remove plugs,and they are black as night.
This picture you posted helped a lot,and was exactly what I was looking for.
From what I can tell it's either Carbon Fouling or Oil Fouling,but I think it's carbon.
Anyway I took few photos with my web cam since my smartphone is in repair shop.
As for battery,I read on many other forums that battery can last for month or more if the bike wasn't ridden
Mine barely lasted for 2 weeks.
Here are the photos of plugs.
Once again thanks for the help :)
Hard to tell from those pictures but they look like dry carbon plugs to me, not oil. The easy way to tell is to rub the black soot of the plugs between your fingers,if it feels dry the soot is from too rich (petrol). If it feels oily/greasy, the soot is from oil.
QuoteIt just made that sound of trying to start,but it couldn't..
Do you mean the engine turned over or you just heard the sound of the starter powering but engine not turning over? My money is on your battery being bad. My battery is over 4 years old and recently I had to park the bike in a container for a year and the bike started right up afterwards. I did do a deep recharge after that to condition the battery. Losing power in two weeks means either you have a wiring problem (easy to check with a decent multimeter - check current draw on the battery when bike is off and key removed. It should be unmeasurable,i had 0,000 volts current draw with ignition off) or a dud battery. IM sorry to say that there are often problems with "new" batteries, especially in dealers who do not sell many batteries. There should be a date code on the battery. What does it say?
I rubbed soot and it's dry.
What should I do with that problem,so it won't happen again with new plugs?
I heard the sound of starter powering,and it was identical like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7NDJ3VWfTA
I don't have multimeter but I'll ask guys at work if they got one.If not,I'll buy it.
The thing is that same thing happened with last battery,but it held up for 1 month.
Shop where I bought battery is specialized in selling car/bike battery.
I checked date code,but there isn't any on it.
PS
I spoke with one guy I know who own motorcycle,and he told me it could be parasitic load.
If indeed is parasitic load,do you know how to fix it?
He told me he only know that it's one of possibility but he don't know how to fix it.
If the soot is dry, the plugs are definitely carbon fouled. This happens when the fuel in the cylinder is not fully combusted, usually a result of a rich fuel:air mixture. I would say that is most likely because of all the starting attempts with the choke on. When the choke is on, the mixture is richer than normal, to help the bike start when cold. Normally, this is temporary and the mixture returns to normal once the choke is backed off after the bike warms up. Any residue usually gets burned off while the bike is running normally. But, if the bike doesn't start and never gets to warm up, the residue left on the plugs is not burned away and the plugs end up dirty like that.
Like herennow, if it were my bike, I would also suspect the battery as the culprit. A weak battery causing weak or no spark could create this situation. However, if you previously had another battery go bad after a month of being used on this bike, I would say that its also possible that you may have a wiring problem. Perhaps there is a short something that is draining your battery even when the bike is off. This would be that "parasitic load" that guy told you about. Fixing it would require you to inspect the bike's electrical system. First thing I would do is inspect all the wiring and make sure it's all intact. If you don't notice any immediate issues, you'll need to get a multimeter to investigate further.
Quote from: qcbaker on October 04, 2018, 06:13:42 AM
If the soot is dry, the plugs are definitely carbon fouled. This happens when the fuel in the cylinder is not fully combusted, usually a result of a rich fuel:air mixture. I would say that is most likely because of all the starting attempts with the choke on. When the choke is on, the mixture is richer than normal, to help the bike start when cold. Normally, this is temporary and the mixture returns to normal once the choke is backed off after the bike warms up. Any residue usually gets burned off while the bike is running normally. But, if the bike doesn't start and never gets to warm up, the residue left on the plugs is not burned away and the plugs end up dirty like that.
Like herennow, if it were my bike, I would also suspect the battery as the culprit. A weak battery causing weak or no spark could create this situation. However, if you previously had another battery go bad after a month of being used on this bike, I would say that its also possible that you may have a wiring problem. Perhaps there is a short something that is draining your battery even when the bike is off. This would be that "parasitic load" that guy told you about. Fixing it would require you to inspect the bike's electrical system. First thing I would do is inspect all the wiring and make sure it's all intact. If you don't notice any immediate issues, you'll need to get a multimeter to investigate further.
Are those plugs still usable (can I clean them) or should I buy new ones?
What is ideal RPM for bike to idle once the choke is backed off?
I got one problem-I'm terrible when it comes to electronic.
Can you tell me what does I need to measure once I get multimeter except battery and what reading should I expect?
After I recharged battery and after I put it in bike when should I measure it-when it's fully charged,half charged or...?
Do you have some good youtube video that I could watch to get the picture?
Sorry,but I was never good at electric stuff.
You can brush the carbon residue off with an old toothbrush or similar. At this point I'd go ahead and reuse the plugs, at least until you get the bike running again. The carbon means you're running a bit rich as qcbaker said. Probably not a big deal at this point but worth checking up on when you have it running again. It never hurts to have new plugs though.
You'll need to get new screws for the carb bowl drains. They're not just a regular screw. A motorcycle shop should have them or you can order online.
Quote from: Petar on October 04, 2018, 06:36:10 AM
Are those plugs still usable (can I clean them) or should I buy new ones?
Those plugs don't look ruined to me, just a bit dirty. So you should be able to simply clean them. There are many ways to do it and I'm not really sure what would be considered the "proper" way, but what I would do is take a sheet of 220 grit sandpaper and lightly rub the electrodes to clean the soot off. Don't rub too hard, you're not trying to actually sand down the metal, just clean the surface. Then, blow off any loose dust left on the plug. That should get them clean enough to spark properly, and if you get the bike back to running normally, the other residue should eventually burn off as you ride.
Quote
What is ideal RPM for bike to idle once the choke is backed off?
I would consider anything between 1200-1400 RPM a normal idle speed.
When I cold-start my bike with full choke, the bike will usually start with the idle pretty low, around 2K, but over a few seconds of running (or if I blip the throttle), it rises to around 3.5-4K, and then rises slowly from there as the bike warms up. Once the bike is warm enough to idle normally, the revs are around 4.5-5K. Then, I back the choke all the way off an my bike idles around 1300.
Quote
I got one problem-I'm terrible when it comes to electronic.
Can you tell me what does I need to measure once I get multimeter except battery and what reading should I expect?
After I recharged battery and after I put it in bike when should I measure it-when it's fully charged,half charged or...?
Do you have some good youtube video that I could watch to get the picture?
Sorry,but I was never good at electric stuff.
Unfortunately, I am far from an expert in this area as well. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in to help as well. I can only tell you what I would do if it were my bike. What I would do first is measure the voltage that the battery produces at rest, not connected to the bike. If the voltage doesn't match what the battery should be producing, you'll know the battery is bad and will most likely need replaced. A correct reading doesn't necessarily prove it ISN'T a bad battery, but its a start. You really should have the battery load tested to know if its truly good. I don't know what the situation in Croatia is, but in the US, most auto parts stores can perform a battery load test for you, usually for little to no money. If you can have the battery load tested, I highly recommend it. Its really the only way to know for sure if the battery is behaving as it should.
If you can verify the battery itself is good, the next thing I would do is connect it to the bike with the ignition in the OFF position, then measure the voltage. If it's lower than normal when connected with the bike off, then I would think that would indicate that it is under some kind of load, which would mean you have some electrical problem that is draining the battery even when the bike is off. Where to go from there I am less sure. You'd have to go through all the wiring and see if you can find where the problem is, but I am not really experienced enough with these kinds of issues to give you good advice about it. Sorry :/
Kilted1 I will try to clean plugs,but I would feel safer if I just buy new ones.
Is it possible that plugs create that popping sound from exhaust?
I will take drain screws too.
qcbaker I will clean them,but like I said to Kilted1 I'm afraid that it may cause exhaust popping,so I'm not sure will cleaning them help with exhaust popping?
Thanks for explaining idle speed.I always ride with choke almost fully ON because I read it's recommended.I will warm it up like you do next time.
However does running bike with choke constantly turn to half damages the bike?
You gave me good idea to take battery to car mechanic and that's exactly what I'll do tomorrow and I'll get back here with results.
Thanks to both of you once again :thumb:
Quote from: Petar on October 04, 2018, 10:33:30 AM
qcbaker I will clean them,but like I said to Kilted1 I'm afraid that it may cause exhaust popping,so I'm not sure will cleaning them help with exhaust popping?
Cleaning the plugs shouldn't really affect the popping one way or the other. The plugs being dirty in the first place is a product of the bike running rich, which is also what causes the exhaust popping. Which brings me to this:
Quote
Thanks for explaining idle speed.I always ride with choke almost fully ON because I read it's recommended.I will warm it up like you do next time.
However does running bike with choke constantly turn to half damages the bike?
You ride with the choke on all the time?? No wonder your plugs are all dirty! The choke is only supposed to be used while the bike is warming up. It should be turned fully off once the bike is able to idle unassisted. If you've been riding with it half on or more all the time, that's probably why your plugs are all fouled up, and that's probably the source of the popping/backfiring you mentioned. The choke makes the bike run rich. The reason for this is because when the bike is cold, the air:fuel ratio is much leaner than normal. The choke acts as a counter balance to this and helps the bike to start. But, once the bike warms up, this additional enrichment is no longer needed. Keeping the choke on after the bike is warm makes it run extremely rich, which is what causes the fouling and the popping/backfiring.
Another thing: if you were riding around with the choke on all the time, how was your idle speed not crazy high? Did you use the idle adjust screw to lower the idle? If so, that could be contributing to your problems.
Well that's explains a lot.
I ride for short distance,maybe 1,5-2 miles to work and back home.I work on night hours so one of main reasons for buying bike was there are no buses that could drop me near work.
Since I ride at night (2:00pm) I tend to warm bike as short as possible because I don't wanna wake up my neighbors.
Idle speed was high,but I haven't turn on choke fully,only 1/2 or even 1/3.
I haven't messed with idle screw.
Quote from: Petar on October 04, 2018, 01:16:40 PM
Well that's explains a lot.
I ride for short distance,maybe 1,5-2 miles to work and back home.I work on night hours so one of main reasons for buying bike was there are no buses that could drop me near work.
Since I ride at night (2:00pm) I tend to warm bike as short as possible because I don't wanna wake up my neighbors.
Idle speed was high,but I haven't turn on choke fully,only 1/2 or even 1/3.
I haven't messed with idle screw.
In that distance the bike is no where near fully warmed up, so having the choke on isn't unreasonable. It's barely enough distance to recharge the battery after starting.
I'd also suggest taking your battery to have it load tested. Ideally where you can see the tester. Some places will take it to a back room or behind the counter and then tell you it was bad but you don't really know. Best to have it fully charged for testing too.
Once you have it running again, it would do your bike (and maybe you as well) good to take it out for a longer ride now and then.
Quote from: Kilted1 on October 04, 2018, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Petar on October 04, 2018, 01:16:40 PM
Well that's explains a lot.
I ride for short distance,maybe 1,5-2 miles to work and back home.I work on night hours so one of main reasons for buying bike was there are no buses that could drop me near work.
Since I ride at night (2:00pm) I tend to warm bike as short as possible because I don't wanna wake up my neighbors.
Idle speed was high,but I haven't turn on choke fully,only 1/2 or even 1/3.
I haven't messed with idle screw.
In that distance the bike is no where near fully warmed up, so having the choke on isn't unreasonable. It's barely enough distance to recharge the battery after starting.
I'd also suggest taking your battery to have it load tested. Ideally where you can see the tester. Some places will take it to a back room or behind the counter and then tell you it was bad but you don't really know. Best to have it fully charged for testing too.
Once you have it running again, it would do your bike (and maybe you as well) good to take it out for a longer ride now and then.
Thanks for info.
I wanted to take battery to testing to nearby car shop,but they told me they only work with cars.
I'll need to either wait for Tuesday (there is national holiday in Monday) for other shops to open,or try to find someone who works on Saturday.
I forgot to mention that I spoke with my friend today who told me that something is draining my battery.
Then I remembered that I have some sort of alarm that sometimes goes ON when I use right signal turning light.
I also have 12v outlet for charging cell phones,I think it's called cigarette holder,and I have gear indicator.
Is it possible that one or more of this things causing battery to drain?
I would like to unplug it all (maybe no gear indicator)but I don't know where is cigarette holder's connected to bike (it goes beneath tank),and same goes for alarm.
Do you perhaps know where are they supposed to be located?
PS
I put battery in bike today (fully charged)and it needed cca. 40 seconds of holding clutch and start button before bike started.Lights worked when I turned key tho.
Then I tried to pull choke off,but it's seems that choke isn't working.
I pull it back and forward,but bike's revs weren't changing.
Bike was barley 1k at idle.
Do you perhaps know cause of these problems?
EDIT/UPDATE:I went to turn On bike today,and it didin't want to start.Choke isn't working either.
Bike makes this sound;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7NDJ3VWfTA
Quote from: Petar on October 05, 2018, 01:05:16 PM
Thanks for info.
I wanted to take battery to testing to nearby car shop,but they told me they only work with cars.
I'll need to either wait for Tuesday (there is national holiday in Monday) for other shops to open,or try to find someone who works on Saturday.
I forgot to mention that I spoke with my friend today who told me that something is draining my battery.
Then I remembered that I have some sort of alarm that sometimes goes ON when I use right signal turning light.
I also have 12v outlet for charging cell phones,I think it's called cigarette holder,and I have gear indicator.
Is it possible that one or more of this things causing battery to drain?
I would like to unplug it all (maybe no gear indicator)but I don't know where is cigarette holder's connected to bike (it goes beneath tank),and same goes for alarm.
Do you perhaps know where are they supposed to be located?
PS
I put battery in bike today (fully charged)and it needed cca. 40 seconds of holding clutch and start button before bike started.Lights worked when I turned key tho.
Then I tried to pull choke off,but it's seems that choke isn't working.
I pull it back and forward,but bike's revs weren't changing.
Bike was barley 1k at idle.
Do you perhaps know cause of these problems?
EDIT/UPDATE:I went to turn On bike today,and it didin't want to start.Choke isn't working either.
Bike makes this sound;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7NDJ3VWfTA
It's absolutely possible that the added accessories are causing the battery drain. The alarm is particularly likely. How it's wired is anyone's guess. Just depends on who wired it.
At least you got it to sputter! That's progress, right? How long did you let it run for? I can't watch your vid right now, or I could watch, I just did watch it, but can't hear it on this PC. I'm thinking it may be time for a carb service though. Hopefully someone else will be able to give you a better analysis.
One other thing to note. The choke pretty much only works at idle. When you open the throttle, it bypasses the choke system.
Once I made it work (only once) I let it run for 3-5 minutes.
I was afraid that carbs need service,since I don't have mechanical knowledge,I'll ask someone to do it for me.
It's not a rocket science,but safe is safe.
As for choke,I haven't add throttle,once I made it run,I tried to pull choke when bike was idling,but it didn't work.
EDIT:Is it possible that bike won't start because I cleaned plugs?
Will it help if I buy new ones?
Quote from: Petar on October 07, 2018, 08:14:47 AM
EDIT:Is it possible that bike won't start because I cleaned plugs?
Will it help if I buy new ones?
It's possible, but it seems unlikely. I guess anything's worth a try at this point. Be sure to check the gap before you put them in.
To Start you need air, spark and gas.
What is the air temperature where you are? cold?
If you remove the spark plugs and lay them on the head (to ground them) - how does the spark look when you crank the motor?
When activating the choke lever on the handlebar, can you see the corresponding lever on the choke move?
Try to start the bike with petcock on prime (might be a problem with vacuum signal to petcock)
Try to spray some starter fluid in the air box, does the bike start then?
QuoteI tried to pull choke when bike was idling,but it didn't work.
What do you mean "does not work". The choke had no effect?
Kilted1 OK,gap should be between 0.8-0.9mm,right?
herennow,temperature in my city is 66 degrees.
I haven't done that,but I'll try.
Where exactly is corresponding lever?Sorry this is first time I do this.
I will try,if it won't start with ''prime'' position,that means vacuum is OK,right?
I'll need to buy starter fluid.
Yes,the choke had no effect.
UPDATE:I went to my bike and it worked for few seconds and then it died.I manage to make it work for few seconds few more times,but it shuts off.
I tried to check spark plugs and they produce spark,it looks like normal spark,and the color is yellow/blue.
I also tried to move choke lever back and forward,and look at engine-I found small metal part that goes left-right when I move choke lever.I hope that's what you asked me to check.
I putted petcock on prime and try to start engine and nothing,it worked for few seconds and then died.
Have you tried to start it with the throttle 1/2 or wide open to see what happens?
After that I would check float level. using the clear tube method.