ADVrider.com today has an article on our favorite little motorcycle:
https://advrider.com/2006-suzuki-gs500-an-entry-level-machine-that-almost-nobody-loves/ (https://advrider.com/2006-suzuki-gs500-an-entry-level-machine-that-almost-nobody-loves/)
The main page of ADV rider recently went to a magazine format and seems to be advertisement supported. I actually like their stories and now they get bonus points for talking about the GS500 and even linking to GStwins!
They get some facts wrong (the F model wasn't released until 2004, not '01 as stated in the article) but overall it seems to capture some of the love we all feel for the twin cylinder workhorse that is the GS500.
If you happen to be a forum member of ADVrider, go ahead and comment about how great the GS500 really is!
Nice, thanks for the link!
"... these machines (GS500) seem to be free of the problems that earlier GS twins faced (dodgy electronics....."
I can attest to the dodgy electronics in my 81 450S! I fried it all on one sad ride on some Eastern Ohio twisties. But I can thank the more modern GS500's for swappable parts.
Parts I robbed for my old girl:
2007 GS500 Coils, 1995 GS500 Ignitor and signal generator/ignition. All that with a used Polaris SH775 reg, coil relay mod and I'm on something vintage with some modern electrics. What a blessing to have stuff like that readily available to retrofit!
Watch out for that signal generator pickup. Had one go out on my '06 GS500F.
I would never say the GS500 had quality electronics but I'm sure they are far better than your 450.
Electrical issues I have had with my GS, which are numerous, are not really component quality issues. They are design problems. The charging system compete, including wiring, connectors, regulator/rectifier, whole shebang (well, maybe not the actual stator...) is all just a couple of sizes too small to do the job, so it degrades rapidly and then causes things to go south fast. I was surprised with a starter failure at only 20K miles but it was an easy fix as long as you find removing the starter and tearing it down, clean and lube, put back together and back in the bike, all to be easy. On the one hand I thought a starter should last a lot more than 20K miles. On the other hand, it was 26 years old.
Anyway, the article left out what I thought were important points in favor of GS500s but nobody really cares. Even on this forum a lot of GS500 owners are just passing through. To many the GS is just a starter bike to abuse and break while learning and then as soon as the owner progresses beyond wobbling, they toss it and "upgrade". This floods the market with a bunch of abused and poorly cared for GS500s that were owned and operated by a long series of motorcycling novices who didn't care enough about them to even check the oil. A BMW or Ducati may be a better bike, but who knows, because nobody mistreats a '94 M800 or an '80s airhead like they will a GS500.
The fact that GS500s are not at all collectible and yet there are still a non-trivial number of seasoned riders who still choose to own and ride them regularly is the testament to some intrinsic value they have that most riders don't bother to even learn about. I think one day we will find them to be a sought after collectible but not until they have been out of production longer and more of the clunkers get junked.
I am a motorcycling novice by comparison but I could be considered an expert on electric guitars and amps, where I much more frequently advise people. It's the same thing. Back in the mid 80s, a 60s stratocaster was just "old". Now it's a highly favored vintage instrument. I have a '74 Ibanez lawsuit LP Jr. that is a beloved classic but 15 years ago they were considered junk. A big part of the reason is because the survivors are those which were cared for by owners, so now the aged examples of guitars and amps we have to evaluate are those which were selected by previous owners to be worth keeping and then lovingly preserved or carefully enhanced over the decades. Those which were tastelessly modified or abused by youthful owners have all been discarded by now, adding rarity to the other intrinsic value of the survivors. I think GS500s will wind up being the same one day. When 80% of them that were ever made have found their way into wrecking yards and most of those you find on CL have had the rear of the frame chopped off trying to make them into cafe racers then the remnant small number of them that are still around that have been carefully preserved and owned by those who really care about them will cause a perception change just like it did for Japanese electric guitars from the 70s and 80s, and for VW Beetles and Datsun 240Zs and UJMs. All things that were ubiquitous and abused and then one day were rare and rarer yet as unmolested examples.
IMHO of course. Mine's been modified too much to likely wind up ever being prized by anyone but me. And it'll take another decade or more before we see this happen.
I think GS500s have a parallel with Miatas, which were introduced in the same year, and also got a model refresh at around the same time. Five years ago a NA Miata was kind of a cheap junky car that kids drove, kind of like a 280Z when I was in high school. In five more years a 1.6L NA Miata will be a $5K car in complete, restorable condition and a $20K+ in showable condition, nearly double what it cost brand new. In 15 years a shell of a 1.6L NA with minimal rust will get $5K on a trailer and a restored car will be $40K. So I think there's coming a day when a clean/complete GS500 will not be a $1500 bike but it'll be a $3500 bike, and a well sorted stock bike will be over $5K. Us old timers will then wax poetic about the elegant simplicity and light weight of the bulletproof GS500, just like we will about Miatas of the same era.
Its hard to imagine the GS500 ever being much of a collectible just because mid sized bikes never seem to be collectible. I think its because we always want to collect the items we lusted after in our youth. Someone who was 18 in 1980 wasn't lusting after the GS450. They wanted the GS1000. Now that they can afford it that's the bike they go for.
A pristine GS1000 is starting to get into collector territory. Worth $3,000+ but a pristine GS450e is worth half that.
My hardcopy of Cycle World, Issue #1, 2020, has a writeup on the first generation GS500 by non other than Jack Baruth. Seems to not be online.
Jack says good stuff about it, as a bike to learn on and to keep long term.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 16, 2020, 03:18:11 PM
Its hard to imagine the GS500 ever being much of a collectible just because mid sized bikes never seem to be collectible. I think its because we always want to collect the items we lusted after in our youth. Someone who was 18 in 1980 wasn't lusting after the GS450. They wanted the GS1000. Now that they can afford it that's the bike they go for.
A pristine GS1000 is starting to get into collector territory. Worth $3,000+ but a pristine GS450e is worth half that.
Give it time. CB/CL 350/360 are definitely in the collectible range, but I am seeing similar Kawasaki twins still down in the $1K range (which BTW there's one on CL right now for like $1100 here in Austin that I really should buy! but I don't want another project). They'll come up. There will be a resurgence in collectibility for all of them eventually, because it's not just you want to collect the bike you wanted, but there will be those who are collecting something like what they actually had and remember.
And remember a GS1000 was a more expensive bike to begin with than a GS450E, so a differential in collector value is expected.
IMHO of course. Just translating what happens in other collector item categories to motorcycles. Ubiquity is the enemy of collectibility for GS500s now. But they will begin to become more rare, especially unmolested, and the value will increase. Again, my opinion. I'm not a collector and likely won't be a seller.
A lot of GS450's and the like - xs650, cb350's etc etc have fallen victim to the café or the godawwful "bobber" craze.
That would IMHO result in a lot of those abandoned projects "have welder and not afraid to cut" backyard jockeys have sliced up and let rot being dumped on the market, and the hack job values will drop like a lead balloon and the stock ones which people do not intend to chop will go up.
GS IMHO is acceptable as a café/brat/bench seat bobber thank god I am yet to see a "hard tail bobber" hack job like this - https://www.bikeexif.com/bobber-style-yamaha-xs650
Yea yea has a boatload of high end crap in it, but functional - it definitely aint, and to me that's a waste of talent and a very nice bike.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: johnny ro on March 17, 2020, 04:45:09 AM
My hardcopy of Cycle World, Issue #1, 2020, has a writeup on the first generation GS500 by non other than Jack Baruth. Seems to not be online.
Jack says good stuff about it, as a bike to learn on and to keep long term.
I was excited to hear about this so I stopped by a Barnes and Noble yesterday to pick up a copy but Cycle World wasn't on the shelf, just all the European mags, ADV mags, and chopper/girl mags. Hopefully it means all the copies were purchased and not that they don't carry it anymore. Its hard to find a hard copy of the remaining motorcycle magazines without being a subscriber. Cycle World used to be on most news stands but I can't remember the last time I saw one outside of a book store.
yeah and Cycle World doesn't have this article on their web site as far as I could find. Kinda sucks.
For a lot of their articles the website is behind the print edition to give more incentive to subscribe. Its likely the article will show up online in a few months.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/used-bike-bargain-the-suzuki-gs500/
I cut the pages out of my hardcopy, stamped for 3 ring binder, stapled, and in they go. I have a binder for this bike.
Seems like the GS is getting a lot of random press lately! :thumb:
Quote from: johnny ro on March 17, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/used-bike-bargain-the-suzuki-gs500/
Thanks for posting that! It was a good read.
Nice for a magazine like this to post something that doesn't just default to performance comparisons like the typical shootout kinds of things. There's just so much more to the ownership experience of a vehicle than how it feels to drive or ride it for just an hour or two. Talk to me about which you prefer after you've spent the same money on equivalent 15 year old used examples and then spent a year and 5k daily use miles with each of them, because that's what matters to real world owners.
That's why I always loved those old Top Gear specials where each of the guys would be given a budget to buy a certain type of vehicle and then take it on the same challenge. I mean, no magazine on earth ranked a Suzuki Sidekick above a Range Rover but given $1500 and a need to cross from Central to South America which one do you want? Likewise, given $1000 budget to buy a used motorcycle to use as your primary transportation every day for a year would you still not buy a GS500 because it's "boring" or "underpowered"?
Thanks for posting that, johnny ro! That Cycle World article on the GS500 really made my day.
The author makes a really good point that Suzuki has a hole in their lineup that the GS500 used to fill. I suppose Suzuki thinks the SV650 and Vstrom 650 fills all the middleweight needs but I really want a bike with the ergonomics of the Vstrom but 75 lbs lighter. The perfect bike for me would be the Honda CB500x or CB500F. If I ever run my GS into the ground and Suzuki hasn't released something to compete then Honda will probably get my money. The Vstrom is just too top heavy and I don't like the ergonomics of the SV.
CB500X looks really good except it's overweight about 50 lb. But yeah, Suzuki really needs a 500cc class twin standard/adventure. You could argue that the DRZ400 and DR650 both occupy this space but those are really dirt bike chassis and lack the ergs of a standard road bike.
Coelocanth? At least they didn't call it a mud skipper :cheers:
I bought my first gen Wee-strom because it is an SV650 in ADV guise. I gave up on the SVs, had 3. The S I found to be unridably uncomfortable. That engine has the perfect power for me.
The CB500X looks good on paper and people seem to like it but seemed too small for me. Not much bigger than the Versys X-300 which I admire. Big...I refer to having something in front of you to break the wind. And a ways out front not near your chest. The Strom has this. It is a road bike styled to have minor off-pavement capabilities.
A 40 hp water cooled 400 twin, could be set up in different styles. Versos X-400 may be first to arrive in that spot.
My 89 GS500 is good at being an 89 GS500. I won't try to make it into something else.
Honda has gone the smart way. The 300 and 500 motors are shared across the rebel and the CB.
The frames are shared across rebels and CB's (aren't they). So with 2 frames and 2 motors you get 4 bikes, want 2 more models, make another frame which they are (2 of them I think) but I think its getting a 1000 twin. Wonder if the 1000 motor will end up in a rebel and in the cb. That means 3 rebels, 3 CB's 3 ADV's, 3 tourers basically 12 bikes with 3 motors and 4 frames. Not 1 for 1 like the GS.
Suzuki should IMHO stayed parallel twin by making a 700 and a 300 and stuffing them all in GS frames LOL.
Then make a cruiser. Then a adv, certainly they missed a trick here, IMHO 650 was fine, V twin was stupid. A V is heavier than a parallel twin and more complicated to make and to service and bigger physically. How can they not see that.
Suzuki created the whole class with 89 GS and then lost the whole plot surrendering it to kawi first then to honda.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: johnny ro on March 18, 2020, 04:55:38 PM
The CB500X looks good on paper and people seem to like it but seemed too small for me. Not much bigger than the Versys X-300 which I admire. Big...I refer to having something in front of you to break the wind.
That's very interesting. I never really understood why people would say a bike was "too small" but this makes sense, I guess. For me, "too small" would be my body can't fit on it, which my GS really was until I changed the footpeg and handlebar position. But the chassis was not "too small".
Seems an add-on fairing would fix this.
Quote
A 40 hp water cooled 400 twin, could be set up in different styles. Versos X-400 may be first to arrive in that spot.
The Kawa 400 engine makes 49hp in a Ninja 400. But I won't be interested at all in a Versys 400 if it's just the V300 with the 400 engine in it. Plus I think there's no reason for Kawasaki to do that, it would put the little Versys too close in competition to their KLR650. If they would make a Versys 400 that was 375 lb and like a Versys 650, that is road-focused ergos, 17" alloy wheels, slightly more suspension travel and ground clearance than the Ninja 400, and the N400 engine with lower final drive ratio, then I'd be all in. Use a Ninja 400 chassis, taller seat, add an inch and a half of travel front and rear and get the ground clearance with that, taller handlebar and mid-set controls and you will have a perfect bike to replace my GS. In fact, if they do that, I'll go buy one and give my GS to my dad, because it would be basically like a new version of what my GS is now.
However, I see no reason Kawasaki would do that. The CB500X is real close but it's 50lb too heavy. I am going to have to get over my aversion to liquid cooled motorcycles if I am ever going to get a new one. Versys 650 is pretty much right on the money but it's WAY too heavy.
Yeah, seeing that post over on ADV reminded me about the GS500. So I had to browse cycle trader and see if any popped up for sale. It's getting about time to replace my current bike, a '97 Yamaha Seca II. Well, I say it's about time but even @ 99k miles it's still running fine, and I still enjoy riding it, so I guess I'm really not in a hurry to replace the bike.
Quote from: mr72 on March 19, 2020, 07:16:16 AM
The CB500X is real close but it's 50lb too heavy.
According to my google-fu, the CB500x only weighs 5 lbs more than the GS500F (430 vs 425 lbs) but makes a few more horsepower. The power is probably more usable power with the modern fueling. The CB500F weighs 415 lbs. Wet weight of a GS500F is closer to 450 lbs. These numbers are all so close you will likely never tell the difference. My Wife's CTX700N weighs almost 500 lbs but feels just as nimble as the GS500 because the weight is carried much lower.
The Honda CB family really is the modern GS500.
CB500X 430 lb wet, my GS500E more like <375lb wet. Removing those fairings has a meaningful impact. I bet mine weighs even less than that... alloy handlebar, plastics removed, mini turn signals, all LED lighting, no center stand, etc. etc. I'd have to weigh my box of unnecessary parts.
Still think a CB500X could be 50 lb lighter. And my Triumph could be 80lb lighter. I'm sure I'm wrong, but somehow Ducati makes a 900 Scrambler that is only 401 lb wet and that makes >70hp. Come on Honda, you can make a 500 twin that weighs less than Ducati's 900.
If weight is you main concern, the Husqvarna Vitpilen 401 has a wet weight of 339 and makes about the same HP as a GS500 (40ish). MSRP is around that of the CB500x. To me the aesthetics are a modern version of the original '89 GS500.
...all good thoughts but the Suzuki 650 V-twin is one of the all time great motors. I believe they were making a Japanese Monster with the SV, but it was not their first V.
I want a GS250 with 8 valve head and UJM styling. Probably never find one. I see a semi cruiser one out there now in New England.
I read the GS 400 had 8 valves, in one iteration. Nice if the 500 had a 4 valve head for a few more hp and rpms
Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 19, 2020, 03:51:46 PM
If weight is you main concern, the Husqvarna Vitpilen 401 has a wet weight of 339 and makes about the same HP as a GS500 (40ish). MSRP is around that of the CB500x. To me the aesthetics are a modern version of the original '89 GS500.
Well, I really want to like Husqvarna but 1) who wants a single? and 2) IMHO that's just about the ugliest stock motorcycle you can buy. The KTM 390 Adventure would be much more appealing, but again, single. But both of them do prove that you can build a marketable road/light-adv bike with enough power for big highways that's under 400 lb. It's just that Honda doesn't seem interested. However, I think part of this is that the ADV bike market seems to embrace 600 lb 1200cc motorcycles. It's like the large SUV market... much like moms like to drive around in 6,000 lb full-size SUVs with 4WD that will never even go over a curb, middle aged men like to ride 600 lb motorcycles with knobby-looking tires and lots of storage bolt ons that might one day roll into a gravel parking lot. And if I'm trying to make motorcycles to sell, sure seems to make sense to build a heavy ADV bike for that market that sells for $20K ... and the cheaper ones (CB500X, Versys 300) are really addressing the same market, who don't really value light weight.
I think I'll keep my lightly adventurized GS500. Works for me. Might even take it apart this weekend and put the 122.5 jets back in. I'm actually temped to go ride it in the rain this weekend, just because it seems like it might be fun to ride in the rain. And if it slips and falls down, it's only 360 lb so I can pick it up by myself, unlike a 475 lb Versys 650 or V-Strom or a 600lb BMW. Or even my 440 lb Triumph. And I won't break expensive parts on my GS, because it doesn't have expensive parts. But a shift lever for my Triumph is over $100.
So many temptations out there... how about a Kawasaki Z650? Why can't our parallel twin have these numbers?
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_z650%2017.htm
Claimed 412lbs wet. 67hp and 48ftlb torque - those are numbers that would be in my Goldilocks zone.
Else the Vitpilen 701 https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/husqvana/Husqvarna_Vitpilen_701_18.htm
Well below 400lbs wet. 75hp and 52ftlb torque. I kinda dig the styling. Though I agree with mr72, who wants a single cylinder?
Have you ridden a bike with a big single cylinder? Its unique and fantastic. You feel every rev but in a good way. The DR650 and NX650 (same engine as XR650L) are some of my favorite engines. The power delivery is very intuitive.
Vitpilen 701 looks like a great motorcycle. Although its a KTM engine, right? I've heard a lot of horror stories about KTM maintenance.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 20, 2020, 03:31:00 PM
Have you ridden a bike with a big single cylinder? Its unique and fantastic. You feel every rev but in a good way. The DR650 and NX650 (same engine as XR650L) are some of my favorite engines. The power delivery is very intuitive.
Vitpilen 701 looks like a great motorcycle. Although its a KTM engine, right? I've heard a lot of horror stories about KTM maintenance.
The only single cylinder I've ever tried with a Suzuki S40, and even that little engine rattled my fillings/
No kidding about maintenance. The Vitpilen requires a valve adjustment at its first service interval at 1000km? Hell no.
The KTM SMT looked like a great sport tourer, but $150 just to do an oil change???
Z650 looks great except aesthetics. Way too much stuck on bodywork. How can they call that a naked bike? Anyway, I still keep talking myself into nursing my GS along indefinitely. I figure if I really want to get a sporty quasi standard I'll go back to my search for a monster 695.
Back in point though, maybe due to EPA and safety regulations we just can't have a modern GS 500.
Quote from: mr72 on March 16, 2020, 12:26:29 PM
The fact that GS500s are not at all collectible and yet there are still a non-trivial number of seasoned riders who still choose to own and ride them regularly is the testament to some intrinsic value they have that most riders don't bother to even learn about....I think there's coming a day when a clean/complete GS500 will not be a $1500 bike but it'll be a $3500 bike, and a well sorted stock bike will be over $5K. Us old timers will then wax poetic about the elegant simplicity and light weight of the bulletproof GS500, just like we will about Miatas of the same era.
That little half-litre twin was the best bike I'd ever owned. Round headlight, lightweight, nimble, factory clip-ons, Ducati/Norton/Ferrari yellow, comfortable at 80mph, really, the only bike I would ever need. But I had been saving up for a Sportster for a few years, and when the one I wanted appeared in my price range I snapped it up. Not trying to compare apples to oranges (and the Sportster is orange) but all motorcycles are fun. I just can't owning two of them.
Bottom line: I love the naked GS500, and if that darned Sportster hadn't come on the scene, I'd still be having a great time with Little Suzi.