Hello, Gentlemen.
I was a relatively common poster a long time ago. Long story short, got in an accident 5 years ago in another bike, and slowly but surely I've been getting back to riding my GS. About a month ago, I killed the engine. Found one relatively cheap online, and bought it. I got it about a week ago, and it is now in the bike. My GS was a 2002. This engine is 2007; loved the idea of an oil cooler. Found here that the PAIR system can be cancelled off, and that's what I'll do. Next, I'll drill two holes in the top horizontal arm of the subframe, to mount the horn there.
So far, so good with everything... Except that there's this wire that comes from behind the clutch cable and small chain sprocket cover, that the old engine didn't have, and that I don't have anywhere to plug it into.
The secondary thing that I think there must be a bunch of info here, is the tachometer deal. One thing at a time, though. What should I do with that plug? (I'll attempt to post a pic of it here). [EDITED: That plug very likely has something to do with the e-tach that the newer GSs had, methinks]
PS: My bike is very special because it has a few parts that I got directly from Adidasguy, RIP. One of them is gone with the dead engine, it was the crankshaft that he actually gave me for free. He only asked for shipping.
Thanks for any info or links to where I should look.
Mauricio
Quote from: vasama on June 26, 2020, 10:22:50 PM
Hello, Gentlemen.
I was a relatively common poster a long time ago. Long story short, got in an accident 5 years ago in another bike, and slowly but surely I've been getting back to riding my GS. About a month ago, I killed the engine. Found one relatively cheap online, and bought it. I got it about a week ago, and it is now in the bike. My GS was a 2002. This engine is 2007; loved the idea of an oil cooler. Found here that the PAIR system can be cancelled off, and that's what I'll do. Next, I'll drill two holes in the top horizontal arm of the subframe, to mount the horn there.
So far, so good with everything... Except that there's this wire that comes from behind the clutch cable and small chain sprocket, that the old engine didn't have, and that I don't have anywhere to plug it into.
The secondary thing that I think there must be a bunch of info here, is the tachometer deal. One thing at a time, though. What should I do with that plug? (I'll attempt to post a pic of it here).
PS: My bike is very special because it has a few parts that I got directly from Adidasguy, RIP. One of them is gone with the dead engine, it was the crankshaft that he actually gave me for free. He only asked for shipping.
Thanks for any info or links to where I should look.
Mauricio
Hello, sad to hear for your accident. Hope your all ok physically.
Strong guess for the clutch wire that its the safety feature, only the us version of bikes got it as standard, it prevents the bike for starting without clutch in. Can be shortened out.. And the wire from front sprocket, or behind it is for neutral indicator (atleast on my bike) which is -92 tho.
Dont know what you mean with the tachometer? You got electric or analog meteron that bike? I've succesfully installed a electric one on -92 bike, just needs a signal wire from magneto
Side stand switch ? Gear position/neutral switch ? Show us a picture of the fitting not the wire.
Clutch switch is fitted to the clutch lever perch.
Cool.
Buddha.
Many thanks, gentlemen, for replying. Here's a photo of the plug itself.
As for the tach issue, my bike is 02, with mechanical tach, and the engine I put in there is 07, with no mode for such a tach; those bikes used the electric one. For now, I'm at peace with having no tach, but eventually, I'll see what I need to do about that. Now is all about starting this thing and getting it to run.
Meukowi: Yes, all is well, physically and mentally, after my accident of 5 years ago. It was in a monster I had bought. Thank you for mentioning it.
Buddha: No, the side stand switch is plugged. Could be the other switch you mention. What I see is that the old engine didn't have this cable.
Show me the other end of that wire - the actual device the thing comes from.
Cool.
Buddha.
It's the smallest of these two that come from that section, behind-top-and left- of the sprocket.
by looking on wiring diagrams i see theres only one green wire, and thats for the side stand switch
Side stand is plugged. This missing one has two wires, one orange with a black stripe, and the other green with a blue stripe. I cranked it today and it was a no go. It kind of wanted to start. I checked power in the plugs. The one on the right had spark; the one on the left, didn't. I'll check tomorrow for the easiest thing, that I messed up the left coil wiring while setting up the tank.
Quote from: vasama on June 28, 2020, 12:17:41 AM
Side stand is plugged. This missing one has two wires, one orange with a black stripe, and the other green with a blue stripe. I cranked it today and it was a no go. It kind of wanted to start. I checked power in the plugs. The one on the right had spark; the one on the left, didn't. I'll check tomorrow for the easiest thing, that I messed up the left coil wiring while setting up the tank.
thats some next level gear indicator, mine got only one wire to it, (top left to the sprocket), the other wiring goes to alternator. Cant find those color codes from wiring diagram, sorry.
Take off the cover look at the fitting and shift gears with the bike off. If that thing spins - that = gear or neutral indicator.
And seriously we've all seen the engine covers before - you want to get some answers - help us help you.
Cool.
Buddha.
I apologize. Here's THE picture. The old motor had just one wire coming out of here. This one has 3, going into two plugs. One of them is now connected. The other one's the one with nothing to be connected to. From where it comes, I'd say it must be like a gear sensor or something like that.
That's the location of the neutral switch. On earlier models there was a metal bobbin there that spun when you shifted.
Cool.
Buddha.
It's looking like I'm gonna have to buy extra electric components to make this 07 engine work. I found today that the signal generator only has one magnet thingy when my older model had two. I transferred one of the ones in the old motor to this new one, and changed the cable coming out of it. Now I have spark on both sides. It still won't start. This neutral switch thingy shows going to the igniter element in the schematics. Very possibly I'll have to get me one of those, but I think I'll crank it a couple of times with a bit of gas in the cylinders, just to confirm that the current issue is electrical.
That thing (the "igniter") is also called 'ECU Computer Controller Unit'; I see several on ebay for around $80 bucks.
[EDITED]: It is very clear to me that the 'newer' GS's had a signal generator with only one sensor. The igniter ECU did the rest. I might have cheated the signal generator with the igniter my '02 has (by adding the sensor), but that might not be the solution. That open plug from the neutral switch, the '07 schematics show it going to the igniter as well. Unless I hear some different guidance here, my next step I think will be to find a cheap igniter online and go from there.
Wait a second - the 01+ with electronic tach somehow managed to get a working spark with a single trigger setup - 89-00 had the 2 trigger system - so your bike is fine. Yea your Edit says this - OK.
Ignitors don't really go all that often. You need to properly trouble shoot.
Stand and think and test and post here and make sure you're not throwing parts into it when it needs elbow grease.
Cool.
Buddha.
No. Sir, my bike was 02 and had the dual trigger setup and mechanical tach. The engine I mounted is 07 so it has only one trigger. I think that it still should work with the 02 igniter with the second trigger I added, but it is still a no go. The engine turns, but doesn't want to start.
I'm split between wrenching more and taking it to the shop. I think I want to cancel something else, and it is the fuel. I have a hunch that the carb setup didn't quite transfer too well because when I crank the engine, it doesn't react any differently when I turn the throttle. I'm gonna crank it with a bit of gas in the cylinders that I'll drop by hand. That should confirm that I have a carb setup problem, and if it is that then I'll work on those. If it still does nothing, then I'm kind of out of ideas of what else to do.
[EDITED] Carbs respond to the throttle, engine turns as before, but no-go. Squirted some gas in both cyls to no avail. Out of ideas. I'll take it to a shop tomorrow unless I get some other idea here. Thank you.
OK sorry I thought 02 had electronic tach.
Basically you need all 07 stuff and if you want a working tach you have to get that onto the 07 wiring harness. For now ignore the tach part, the 07's igniter, triggers and any other in that line is what you need.
People have swapped them I think - maybe someone else who has would post.
Cool.
Buddha.
Alright guys, should I start a thread on the Projects/Builds forum? (I'd rather keep it going here, if possible).
I'm finding out the hard way that it isn't a simple/straight forward 'unplug-plug' the harness replacement for this motor I got.
To summarize:
-Killed the engine on my '02 GS.
-Got an '07 engine on eBay. It is mounted.
-Found that the '07 uses a different igniter, and one sensor in the signal generator. Tried to cheat it by adding the second sensor to no avail.
-Got an '07 harness and igniter on eBay. Igniter arrives on Monday.
-Removed my old harness.
-Comparing both harnesses I saw that most of the old plugs are on the new one, but they are not a total match.
-Looking at the schematics of both years, I see that the newer has a plug for a Throttle Position Sensor, and a solenoid that goes to the igniter, the ignition switch and both the coils - This is not the starter solenoid relay; this one is a separate thing in the schematics.
I'm gonna dig online for the TPS, but my real hopes are that someone here will guide me in this endeavor. Methinks this engine should work, it might be a matter of an electrical component the '02 didn't have. Maybe it can be cheated and some of these circuits can be shorted out or ignored.
Before I removed the old harness, the lights turned on when I turned the key, and the engine turned. It just didn't send the spark on time - my best guess.
Fingers crossed that someone will give me advise or point me towards some.
Thank you all.
didn't take long to find the TPS thingy. Stupid thing goes on the side of the carbs... Oh, well..
The TPS doesn't do anything.
You couldn't get it working with the advancer and the crank trigger off the 02 ?
The electrical should all be from the 2 trigger model so 02 wiring, ECU, crank trigger plate, advancer, coils, which looked like what you have. Just wont get a working tach - Just ignore that part.
Cool.
Buddha.
Mr Buddha, thank you so much for your reply.
It became clear to me this morning, that there's a very significant difference in the signal generators of the two models. The old one, the one with 2 triggers, has only one protrusion in the rotor whereas the newer model has indentations all around. No wonder the thing didn't get going. My next step is going to be to replace that component altogether.
Too bad that I removed the old harness... Well, a bit more time re-installing it. Of course, crossing my fingers that this will do it.
It'll have to wait till tomorrow.
THAT DID IT! It's on now!
Have to do a test ride a bit later, but oh, what satisfaction it is to hear that little engine roar...
Did you have to swap the harness back ? Maybe the trigger, advancer in the new harness would have done it - or not.
Cool.
Buddha.
Yes sir, I did. The newer one has a plug for the updated igniter. Bike did start but didn't go, as in when the kickstand is down. However, the kickstand sensor is connected. What I'll do later, is to keep trying my luck and changing the neutral switch. The older has only one blue wire coming out of it, for which there's a plug to connect it to, but the newer has three wires going to two plugs; so, for now, there's one plug with two wires coming out of that switch, which isn't plugged to anything.
I must be very close, as the engine does start, and the carbs respond to the throttle.
Seems to be a mechanical issue with the clutch. On the center stand, the rear wheel turns on neutral and stops with first gear engaged. However, at that moment, pulling the clutch lever does nothing. Tightening the adjuster at the bottom had no effect. Gonna have to drain the oil and open the right side to check the springs, or the plates (probably the culprits).
Quote from: Meukowi on June 28, 2020, 12:46:21 AM
thats some next level gear indicator, mine got only one wire to it, (top left to the sprocket), the other wiring goes to alternator. Cant find those color codes from wiring diagram, sorry.
Alternator runs 3x yellow wires which come from behind the front sprocket cover and run up under the seat and join another two wires before heading to the regulator/rectifier on the right hand side of the seat ... I can't remember where the 2 wires come from - possibly the RH crankcase.
Quote from: bodeye on July 06, 2020, 03:55:44 PM
Alternator runs 3x yellow wires which come from behind the front sprocket cover and run up under the seat and join another two wires before heading to the regulator/rectifier on the right hand side of the seat ... I can't remember where the 2 wires come from - possibly the RH crankcase.
Yes, '02s also have the 3 yellow wires you're mentioning. That's not the wiring I'm referring to; the ones I'm talking about come out of the same zone, but above where the clutch pushpin goes into. 02 models had just one blue wire going to one connector, and nothing more. 04s and after, had an extra pair of wires coming out of the same part, but going into their own plug, that the older wiring schemes didn't have.
Ended up being a very easy thing: The "clutch mechanism" needed to be adjusted a bit. I'll give it a ride tomorrow, but tonight it didn't die when I engaged a gear with the clutch pulled.
I'll live without a tach till I get me one (read somewhere that those things can be wired to a coil, and they'll work - I believe it was in a post by THE man in this forum that I read recently). I also need to figure out where to place the horn; I'll be silent on my ride tomorrow.
Closing it up by saying that I rode it around the block and worked; didn't die.
It's VERY clear that I need to adjust the throttle (methinks I need to tighten the return cable) and the clutch (still not exactly where it needs to be)
Also, have to solve the tach thing.
Not complex things, compared with the engine replacement as a whole.
Once again, the wealth of knowledge in this site seems bottomless. To think that after all these years I would find information posted by Adidasguy, that actually gave me a solution in a block I found, is beyond belief. Also, to get advice directly by Mr Buddha is something very special.
Thank you, all.
Reopening the post to ask how to wire an elec tach to the old bike. I tried to wire it to the right coil, but no combination worked. Hoping I get suggestions here.
(replaced the signal generation hardware and wiring with the old ones, and the bike starts and runs. The only thing that's off, is the elec tach)
You have 2 options if you ask me - Assuming you want to use the original gauge cluster - which I love BTW, would paint it black along with the triples but its never getting tossed - But a working tack is important - so.
First option is.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LCD-Screen-Digital-Motorcycle-Speedometer-12000RPM-8-18V-Gear-Tachometer-Gauge/283514293544?hash=item4202c4cd28:g:5D8AAOSw-ZBdANCU
You can find out how to fit it in the pod, I have one of those but I only tried to fit it to a yamaha bolt which takes a jae-mx31 or some crap plug and cant be crossed over easily, but its got a plug into the wiring and it has all the warning lights which would leave the original in the gauge cluster useless - but it does look good by itself in the gauge and tells you what you need to know.
The speedo in it is digital and needs the cable, but the tach uses a wrap style pickup around the plug wire. It will work if they're not lying about that. The housing is metal, and almost the same size as the tach housing of the GS, but the bolt spacing may be different, you may have to drill it and install a rivetnut or something.
BTW that gauge uses a mathematic caliberation for gear position to work, if you were to run the speedo cable into it, you may get gear position to show. You can also wire it for head temp if I'm remembering correctly, and use the water temp guage to show ambient temp - cool gauge IMHO.
Option 2 is a dedicated tach only - Like this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-EFI-Tachometer-Tach-Gauge-For-Universal-Harley-Honda-Suzuki-Yamaha-CB/253295592642?hash=item3af99804c2:g:4YwAAOSwAHZUPpmY
Again measure that it will fit the housing and may need to mod stuff to fit it.
There may be other options - check and measure before buying.
I have another one that is about the size of a hockey puck, which means there is a lot of room under it to make it fit, but they seem to not be selling those now.
Cool.
Buddha.
Those two look very snappy, Buddha, and not overly expensive. They would be wired to what, a coil?
Also, is there any way that a newer GS tach can be wired to something in the old bikes that would make it work?
Thanks.
I never had a post 00 GS. No idea what a electronic tach on those gets its feed from, but there is a different advancer and different TCI and what not on those. Maybe it gets its rpm feed from the TCI.
These use some inductive sensing from the sparkplug wires. I only bought those, never wired em to my bolt, so no idea.
Bolt doesn't have the same 3X3 cheese cube molex plug, its got a jae mx35 plug for the dash. Was too much work to switch to a molex, so I have these tossed somewhere.
Cool.
Buddha.