Scrambler vs road, what differences in settings would you see?
Height: 190cm (6'2")
Weight: 105kg (230lbs)
Stock atm but this is what I'm thinking..
Back - R6 Shock on the way, might use a 1" raiser.
Front - Considering the .90 Sonic Springs with 10w and 110mm. Will raise this end as much as I can if the back raiser goes in.
I'll be taking this on a trip around Aus where I'll be spending a lot of time on highways, hitting some dirt roads and carrying 20-30kg of luggage.
Any advice or experience welcome.
I'd recommend a Katana600/750 shock in the rear since it will match much better with your weight and the .90kg/mm springs you plan to use.
I have the K600 shock in the rear, 0.90 springs and forks lowered about 30mm in the triples, works great like this. Static ride height is a little taller than stock but loaded ride height is over an inch higher at both ends due to stiffer springs. I also have a 150 and 120 tires which make a bit of a difference too.
Thanks mr72. That was the plan but I've decided I want to be able to choose if I want it stock height or raised, so the R6 suits my needs. And it's already on the way (not to mention the trouble it's caused).
you're going to need a stiffer rear spring on that r6 shock for your weight. Those 0.90 are like 40% stiffer than stock. You need to match that on the rear.
But you've already decided so knock yourself out. Why ask? SMh
For scrambler (off road) .90 and Kat shock seems to stiff too me. Thats for hard riding on the street.
I would do maybe .75 springs with 15w oil for more compression and rebound damping plus the r6 shock.
Your uses are at odds with each other. Good off-road suspension will handle like sh!!!t loaded with luggage on the roads. Dual purpose motorcycles are bad at everything so just pick something, it will be better at some things and worse at others.
If you do go with 1" raising links with the R6 shock, the swing arm will absolutely need to be ground down to allow clearance between the spring and the arm. I had that exact setup once a few years ago.
Quote from: mr72 on August 24, 2020, 06:17:29 AM
you're going to need a stiffer rear spring on that r6 shock for your weight. Those 0.90 are like 40% stiffer than stock. You need to match that on the rear.
That elaboration is useful, thank you for instilling more uncertainty in me... Now looking at kat600 shocks again ffs.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on August 24, 2020, 10:11:45 AM
For scrambler (off road) .90 and Kat shock seems to stiff too me. Thats for hard riding on the street.
I would do maybe .75 springs with 15w oil for more compression and rebound damping plus the r6 shock.
Your uses are at odds with each other. Good off-road suspension will handle like sh!!!t loaded with luggage on the roads. Dual purpose motorcycles are bad at everything so just pick something, it will be better at some things and worse at others.
Thanks I thought this might be the case. After this overlander trip I want it comfortable for commutes so my mods will lean more towards what's right for the road. I thought maybe it was just some setting that I could adjust but as I research it more and more I find that suspension is a never ending pursuit.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on August 24, 2020, 03:30:34 PM
If you do go with 1" raising links with the R6 shock, the swing arm will absolutely need to be ground down to allow clearance between the spring and the arm. I had that exact setup once a few years ago.
Thank you for you wiki contribution :)
You're very welcome! I've done a fair amount with the wiki over the past couple years... tried to update it and improve it where I could.
mismatching front and rear spring rate is probably not a very good idea. Remember ShowBizWolf weighs like 100 lb or more less than you, so that R6 shock spring rate that works for her is probably way too soft for you.
I put my Kat600/0.90 setup on my bike when I was about 230 lb. Now I'm under 200 but it still is very plush and comfortable compared with my Bonneville. It will feel softer than the stock spring rates because you're not using up over half of the travel just sitting on it. With stock spring rate the suspension moves a lot and even with scads of preload it will bottom out frequently with a 230 lb rider. That stiffer kat rear shock will be much more comfortable because it can use all of the travel in the rear and not bottom.
For long rides especially if there's any rough roads I'll pick my GS with the "hard" suspension over my Bonneville with similarly dialed suspension because that extra 2" of travel makes all the difference.
How well do the Katana 600 shocks hold up?
The ones I see for sale are old and crusty.
The used R6 shocks are more expensive, but they are much newer, cleaner, and some list fairly low miles.
Ok, thanks everyone, I've done the rear. She has a kat750 in it, had to grind down the swing arm.. So much.. I put a new hole in it :/ ... I keep thinking maybe I should bog it with something to stop water going in...
Feels way better. I'm leaning more towards road comfort so I have 0.90 sonic springs waiting to go in the front now. I'm thinking 10w oil, but I'm not sure about the preload?
What's everyones thoughts on the oil weight and preload, and how do I know what length to cut the pvc spacer rod to achieve desired preload?
Quote from: thatshitcray on October 18, 2020, 05:58:47 AM
Ok, thanks everyone, I've done the rear. She has a kat750 in it, had to grind down the swing arm.. So much.. I put a new hole in it :/ ... I keep thinking maybe I should bog it with something to stop water going in...
Feels way better. I'm leaning more towards road comfort so I have 0.90 sonic springs waiting to go in the front now. I'm thinking 10w oil, but I'm not sure about the preload?
What's everyones thoughts on the oil weight and preload, and how do I know what length to cut the pvc spacer rod to achieve desired preload?
I haven't swapped different springs into a GS500. (But have installed springs in other bikes).
Usually a good place to start is with the spacer even (level or flush) with the top of the tube.
Then you get the 25mm or so preload as you screw the top nut in.
A metal washer is definitely needed between the PVC and the spring, ( but not between the top nut and spacer).
I have the Kat600 shock and enjoy .90 Sonic springs and 10 weight oil. I tried 15w oil for awhile but it was too slow and stiff for me.
As Sporty suggested, I have my spacer cut flush with the top of the tube and oil height to Suzuki spec. This has been a good setup for me around 200 lbs and a mix of all types of riding on the GS (including gravel roads, 2-up, sport, and commute).
Great replies, thank you. So I'll follow that instruction with the spacers, use 10w oil and fill as per spec.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on October 18, 2020, 09:04:36 AM
I have the Kat600 shock and enjoy .90 Sonic springs and 10 weight oil.
Exactly the setup i have, maybe 15wt oil, but I also have fork lowered in the triples about an inch and with taller than stock tires. Works great.
What about Progressive fork springs for scambler/adventure set-ups. Wouldn't a 19.75" spring with a 0.75-1.0" spacer
be better than a 10"-ish (?) spring and spacer combo under that kind of rough use?
Quote from: mr72 on October 22, 2020, 04:32:17 AM
Quote from: Bluesmudge on October 18, 2020, 09:04:36 AM
I have the Kat600 shock and enjoy .90 Sonic springs and 10 weight oil.
Exactly the setup i have, maybe 15wt oil, but I also have fork lowered in the triples about an inch and with taller than stock tires. Works great.
What do you weigh Mr72? I'm leaning towards the 10w because They're so soft now any improvement would be great but I'm sure I will notice if they're to hard.
I'm about 195 lb. Reality is I was more like 230 when inset it up, but it's still perfect at my current weight.
Quote from: chris900f on October 22, 2020, 03:38:05 PM
What about Progressive fork springs for scambler/adventure set-ups. Wouldn't a 19.75" spring with a 0.75-1.0" spacer
be better than a 10"-ish (?) spring and spacer combo under that kind of rough use?
It's a good question. IDK know if a variable rate spring is an advantage off road. The initial softer section is going to get compressed quickly over rough terrain.
I have a set of progressive springs in my Sportster, on road use only, I like them.
The funny thing is that on the XLForum they can't comment enough about how "progressive springs really suck"
Quote from: Sporty on October 23, 2020, 06:12:32 AM
Quote from: chris900f on October 22, 2020, 03:38:05 PM
What about Progressive fork springs for scambler/adventure set-ups. Wouldn't a 19.75" spring with a 0.75-1.0" spacer
be better than a 10"-ish (?) spring and spacer combo under that kind of rough use?
It's a good question. IDK know if a variable rate spring is an advantage off road. The initial softer section is going to get compressed quickly over rough terrain.
I have a set of progressive springs in my Sportster, on road use only, I like them.
The funny thing is that on the XLForum they can't comment enough about how "progressive springs really suck"
I usually swap out the Progressive springs and go back to stock (on my Honda) every few years in a pique of "rose-colored-glasses" syndrome.
This year I swapped back to stock as I was playing with front ride height. It was all good until I hit a pothole riding on a "B" road, I bottomed the forks
so hard, that I slid forward on the seat and bashed my right knee into the cylinder head. I had to pull over and limp around until the "pins and needles" died down.
So the Prog springs are back in and the stocks are in a box. The Progs aren't perfect, but they are a big improvement.
In the case of the GS I would use the Prog springs because they are twice as long so impacts are absorbed by compressing a long spring with a rising rate, as
opposed to a short spring with a static rate. The Race-tech springs are probably better in a road race situation, where impacts are not the main concern and the
short static rate spring is more predicable under hard cornering....of course I'm just spitballin' here, I've never done any road racing :)
I think the difference often is travel. On my Triumph, progressive springs are a must because there's not enough travel to have straight rate springs that are soft enough to respond to small bumps but also stiff enough to prevent bottoming over hard bumps, especially while braking. Progressive springs fix this. It's a compromise but one that works.
For road riding the GS500 has plenty of travel to prevent bottoming with straight rate springs that are still soft enough to respond to small bumps. If you are going to ride on rough roads or rutted and washboard gravel you will need stiffer springs to prevent bottoming and keep ground clearance. But a GS500 imho does not benefit from progressive springs.