Hey all.
Trying to pick up a new regulator rectifier for my bike, as my battery is putting down some very high readings of 18.1 :(
I have been told try go with stock, Suzuki part, evern if its second hand, over doing a brand new after market brand.
Does anyone know what years use what rectifier ??? I have a 2004 model. But that doesnt mean i have to use 2004 right ?
im pretty suse all the models from 2004 used over version of the regulator and all the models prior used another .
Does anyone know anything more on that ??
Big thanks in advance
Maxine
There are some new fangled ones made with schottky diodes. No its not made in a deli. Genuine 30 yr old solid state technology at its finest. If I had the patience and the desire to make $.03 an hour, I'd even make some into a GS's housing.
Buy those. If you want plug and play ... well buy genuine schottky instead of the cheapo fake crap.
Or wait, call Ricky's stator, they may even do one of those schottky ones with an adapter plug pigtails for the GS.
PS: They are also called Mosfet Regulator rectifiers. Cos they got schottky and mosfet as opposed to regular diodes and no idea what transistors originally, never cut one open (BTW of all the stupid POS'es I cut open why didn't I cut one of these open ??? No idea even opened a few ignitors, just never this tarred up POS) Yea ... never broke one. BTW you break it ??? or broke a stator, or rotor ??? 1000 more of those broke than this ... but its not infallible.
PPS: Sorry I edit my posts when I think no one is looking ...Oops.
Cool.
Buddha.
I am with Buddha here .....
the oem connector plugs are a fail point, buy the cheap Chinese superior version and hard wire...solder and shrink wrap or fancy crimp (not a cheap crimp). $15 on flea bay.
Overkill? OK the OEM is $15 on fleabay right now..plug and play...use vaseline to lubricate the oem connector and avoid rust... otherwise have heat and melted connector over time if you ride in the wet.
Spend $4 for a tube of dielectric grease, which is multi weight vaseline.
There are step by step pics on SVrider.com for the "aftermarket". Same basic charging system with same basic defective-by-design fail feature. So I personally disagree with the advice you got, except easier to go OEM
So my main question would be , does the 2004 models all the way through to the 2011 models use the same regulator ???
im on a 04GS , but cant find anything close to me . I have only been able to find a 06 regulator and a 2010
but i think they may be the same .... not 100% tho.
was looking if anyone else had a better idea.
maxine
Could you use one of the OEM parts sites to cross-check the part number through the years?
I still recommend putting a ZX-6R regulator/rectifier on it, it's an easy modification but does require cutting and splicing wires. The connectors and wiring on the stock reg/rect are not nearly up to the task.
But yes I think all years of the Mk2 are the same so it's a super easy plug and play to just put a replacement time bomb stock regulator/rectifier from any 2001-2011 GS500 on it. You could always verify the part numbers are the same using BikeBandit. Their web site is worth something, if not actually buying parts. They have complete parts fiche from all years.
I've never had a R/R fail on a GS let alone those connectors. PS: I have owned 17 of them, logged a collective 100K on GS'es alone and worked on another 8 or so (like se7nty7, Adam (who shares my birthday) and a few other locals in SC/NC I forget or weren't on gstwin), so its not n=1. N = 25, plenty of smashed up, goated, and burnt to a crisp for no reason stators and rotors but never a dead R/R.
Stators and rotors on the thing are a far worse failure point IMHO on a GS, especially if it was dropped on the left side.
The ZX6 OTOH as well as vulcan 750's will destroy their R/R's both due to bad placement (under the battery) as well as design and lack of air flow and all the rest.
On yamaha virago's they bolted them to the exhaust collector - like they were going to burn the thing if it didn't fail.
Cool.
Buddha.
I guess that depends on year. The ZX6R reg/rect I have in both my GS500 and my Bonneville are MOSFET units that run cool as a cucumber. On the Bonnie I put it under the tank.
The big problem with the GS ones has mostly to do with wire gauge and the connectors. They sink heat through the wiring and the wires going to the stator and battery are just not big enough, and are too long. And worse, the extra connectors in there add resistance to the whole circuit. Once the bike gets to be 20+ years old all of that wiring and connectors have corrosion on them that adds resistance and resistance adds heat. That's how you get parts melting down.
The reg/rect itself is probably not the root cause of the problem, but you can't just swap wires on it; they are molded in. So you can put an aftermarket reg/rect with universal connectors on the side and then build out connectors, rewire everything from the stator to the reg/rect and from the reg/rect to the battery, or you can put one like the ZX6R MOSFET ones that have like 8 and 12 gauge wire molded in and then cut out the intermediate cable from the stator, crimp on some bullet connectors on the reg/rect wiring and cut and splice the battery wires. It's not hard to do and will greatly reduce the heat in the wiring and stave off a meltdown.
But what do I know? I have owned one GS500 and these wires caught fire on mine. That's enough for me.
Crazy idea here: could you use DeOxit on the connectors, just to extend the life?
The problem is not just oxidation in the connectors. It's that the wire itself oxidizes under the insulation about an inch or two from the connector. Then it gets hot and melts. The fun part is the wire on the reg/rect can get oxidized an inch or two from the body of the reg/rect.. there's no connector there. No way to replace it. It's integral to the reg/rect so you just get to throw it away.
Shunt type reg/rect with bipolar transistors gets very hot. Very. All that energy when the stator is putting out 85VAC has to go somewhere to step it down to 14VDC.
Quote from: mr72 on March 02, 2021, 07:44:41 AM
I guess that depends on year. The ZX6R reg/rect I have in both my GS500 and my Bonneville are MOSFET units that run cool as a cucumber. On the Bonnie I put it under the tank.
The big problem with the GS ones has mostly to do with wire gauge and the connectors. They sink heat through the wiring and the wires going to the stator and battery are just not big enough, and are too long. And worse, the extra connectors in there add resistance to the whole circuit. Once the bike gets to be 20+ years old all of that wiring and connectors have corrosion on them that adds resistance and resistance adds heat. That's how you get parts melting down.
The reg/rect itself is probably not the root cause of the problem, but you can't just swap wires on it; they are molded in. So you can put an aftermarket reg/rect with universal connectors on the side and then build out connectors, rewire everything from the stator to the reg/rect and from the reg/rect to the battery, or you can put one like the ZX6R MOSFET ones that have like 8 and 12 gauge wire molded in and then cut out the intermediate cable from the stator, crimp on some bullet connectors on the reg/rect wiring and cut and splice the battery wires. It's not hard to do and will greatly reduce the heat in the wiring and stave off a meltdown.
But what do I know? I have owned one GS500 and these wires caught fire on mine. That's enough for me.
Mosfet and schottky diodes are a huge step up. I'd explain but well we're not in amplifier design class, and I dont know like WTF ... just use mosfet is an easier answer.
BTW you caught the wiring on fire LOL. Seriously I've never opened up that right side panel and found anything remotely burnt. Yea birds, rats, spiders and the ocassional snake OK. Fire - never.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: struckjm on March 02, 2021, 11:51:35 AM
Crazy idea here: could you use DeOxit on the connectors, just to extend the life?
yes followed by dielectric grease, and put that combo on every plug on the bike
Quote from: johnny ro on March 02, 2021, 05:46:19 PM
Quote from: struckjm on March 02, 2021, 11:51:35 AM
Crazy idea here: could you use DeOxit on the connectors, just to extend the life?
yes followed by dielectric grease, and put that combo on every plug on the bike
👍 I did that on all my bikes over the winter.
Make sure the 18 volts you saw has not damaged your battery.
Never had a problem or seen a reoccurring issue with the standard part. There are 30 year old ones out there still doing what they are designed to, I have a 26 year old one its still performing as it should, if it failed tomorrow what is their to complain about? I would buy another and expect to get another 26 years out of it
It works like this..........The odd stock one fails somewhere or someone reads about one failing and suddenly people start thinking they are they are ALL shite and ALL on borrowed time and then telling others they are ALL shite and ALL on borrowed time.
If you want a non stock item....go right ahead and buy one
If you want to modify the wiring and fit one from another bike....go right ahead and do it.
.......and if you think you will gain something in terms of performance or reliability....go right ahead and hope it works out for you.
Quote from: sledge on March 04, 2021, 12:29:47 PM
Never had a problem or seen a reoccurring issue with the standard part. There are 30 year old ones out there still doing what they are designed to, I have a 26 year old one its still performing as it should, if it failed tomorrow what is their to complain about? I would buy another and expect to get another 26 years out of it
It works like this..........The odd stock one fails somewhere or someone reads about one failing and suddenly people start thinking they are they are ALL shite and ALL on borrowed time and then telling others they are ALL shite and ALL on borrowed time.
If you want a non stock item....go right ahead and buy one
If you want to modify the wiring and fit one from another bike....go right ahead and do it.
.......and if you think you will gain something in terms of performance or reliability....go right ahead and hope it works out for you.
I am happy you avoided the minefield. When they go they take down other parts of charging circuit. $15 for a part for premeptive maintenance and a pleasurable procedure is not unattractive.
It cant take out other parts except the odd headlight bulb.
You can get a short in it and it will kill itself faster.
You can get an open it in and it will be just as dead.
You can put ac into the dc circuits and your system wont care just the battery would heat up and not charge ...
You can get too much DC into the AC side (very very very rare that the regulator fails and doesn't take out rectifier in short order).\
You get 3 phase AC out of the alternator, -50 to 0 to +50v AC.
The rectifier part turns that into a ripple filled DC of +20 to +35V. If that fails - you're at 0 and when the battery dies, you're pushing it home.
The regulator tosses out everything over 14.5 DC as heat into the heat sink and gives you 0 to +14.5 V DC.
If the regulator dies closed (which is very very rare, cos the heat will blow it open in short order - remember the heat that goes into heat sink now has to go through that conductor in the regulator) and it sends that whole 20v to 50v into the circuit - you typically fry the rectifier because its down stream resistance is gone and that's kaput time for a tranistor and when that happens you're back at 0.
So if you're in that lala land where its sending too much DC cos a regulator has failed closed and its not been heated enough to blow open (as in you're not revving to 5K or up or are using a crap ton of accessories sucking up power) then you'd maybe blow headlight bulbs and other lights and fuses (I mean a pretty painful experience but not one that would kill the stator).
A Stator will die if it is running into a dead short at the rectifier stage and does so for a long period of time. Can not happen in that fragile electronic little thing. Of course you guys have seen melted wires and molex connectors, then yes. That can happen.
Vulcan 750 would get battery acid on the connector and batter acid is a corrosive conductor, and it will short the stator. Worse yet it may only happen for a few mins, and you would heat and burn and blow it off and it works without further incident till it gets wet again ... repeat that over a few rides and boom you've cooked a stator. Wonderful, on a vulcan 750 you need to get the motor out to change the stator. Its a 20 hr job. Unless you cut the frame. Which I have done on 2 of those.
Cool.
Buddha.
"I am happy you avoided the minefield. When they go they take down other parts of charging circuit. $15 for a part for premeptive maintenance and a pleasurable procedure is not unattractive".
An immediate failure of the reg/rect is not going to cause related issues, if you ignore a failing reg/rect it probably will.
BTW...where can I get brand new reg/rect for $15?...........I will take 3 of them :laugh:
Quote from: sledge on March 06, 2021, 11:10:41 AM
"I am happy you avoided the minefield. When they go they take down other parts of charging circuit. $15 for a part for premeptive maintenance and a pleasurable procedure is not unattractive".
An immediate failure of the reg/rect is not going to cause related issues, if you ignore a failing reg/rect it probably will.
BTW...where can I get brand new reg/rect for $15?...........I will take 3 of them :laugh:
The bay of fleas? I see a direct fit for $16.78 right now which rounds to $15. Free shipping from California. "GS500 rectifier"
Will it be made in China? Yes. These days that is a mark of quality. They have gone beyond in this stuff. They won that war.
The flea bay offering for that price has a pretty good explanation, written by an English speaking engineer type, of what is a rectifier / regulator.
Cheap Chinese ebay bike parts?
Yep........they are the best without a doubt
In much the same way chlamydia is the best sexually transmitted disease!
Chinese knockoff's = Roulette.
I am up to my eyeballs in electronic components.
They made all sorts of qualities levels in these. I have bought metal housing transistors that were every bit as good as the original in the same size cos the case needs to be to bolt into heat sink - cant make a part that will not bolt on right.
I have bought plastic transistors which were excellent at the same size, and almost as good in a much much smaller size (where its free standing, it doesn't matter.
Then of course there's the utter crap, usually much smaller than the original, usually outright fake and dont work at all, or blow in very short order.
What is inside the potted part - that's what counts. BTW the schottky mosfets are entirely made in china. Original as well as the replacements. Likely to be equal to what was in the bike if you had a bike with that to start with.
Cool.
Buddha.
I have built a lot of stuff, including hand-made high end boutique guitar amplifiers, with parts made in China. You can get whatever parts you want to build a thing. You want to put it together with barely-adequate or substandard parts? You can get those made in China. You want to overbuild it with parts that will last forever? Those parts are also available, also made in China. I mean, I just did a mod on a 20+ year old Vox AC30 where the stock cathode resistors, which were not only too small of a value but also too small wattage rating, were literally burning the circuit board they were mounted on in use. I replaced the two (likely made in China) 5W 100 ohm wirewound, sand-cast resistors with one (definitely made in china) 25W 67 ohm aluminum-body chassis mount resistor screwed straight to the chassis and wired to the tube socket with a 20AWG wire as God intended, rather than on a PCB. Korg (Vox parent co) could have put 5W 150 ohm resistors on the PCB and just like they did with the 100 ohm, and it would have worked fine for many more decades. But they haven't bothered to update the AC30TB design since the 60s, even though line voltage is 20% higher now. Point is, this is a design problem, not a component problem.
Anyway, with a reg/rect you don't know what's inside. So as Buddha says, you roll the dice when you buy a cheap one. Who knows if it's designed correctly to handle the heat and duty cycle for this particular use? At least with an OEM part, even an OEM part from another motorcycle manufacturer, you know that there is an actual track record of them being used for years in the real world. But an aftermarket replacement part has no such track record.
Just google the different forums. there are lots of recommendations of cheap regrecs that have proven to be good. In the britbike forums I'm a member of there is a specific cheap unit made/sold for Hondas that is use by lots of folks and has a great reputation.
someone recenly again recomended these
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Voltage-Rectifier-Regulator-fit-for-HONDA-CBR600-VFR750-CBR900-CBR1100XX-CB600/203244843691
and
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/5-Pin-Wire-Connector-for-Honda-CB-VT-CBR-250-400-500/122893562514