Hello All,
I inherited a 1992 GS500 project, partially disassembled, and have found this site to be really helpful, a great resource. I have the chassis mostly re-assembled and now working on the engine. Head and cylinders are off, clutch is out, getting ready to split the crankcase to have a look at the lower end.
Two questions for the experts:
1) Does anybody sell a seal kit for the lower end? Or do I need to purchase each seal separately?
2) As the engine sits now (head and cylinders are off) the rear cam chain guide (the one the tensioner pushes against) is free to move up and down about 1/4 - 3/8". Is that normal? I am wondering if the cushions might be missing and that's why there is so much room the guide pin to slide up and down in the slots.
Thanks for any suggestions.
I dont think the cam guide is able to move up/down 1/4". 1/4" is huge in terms of engine parts. Where it sits in the cases, look for wear.
Also you sure you can get the bearings for it ? In the back of the engine - on top like the part that's under the airbox you'd see a set of letters like ABBA or something. No they're not fans of a 70's euro pop group. They denote the thicknesses of the bearings that were installed. You'd have to turn and polish the crank and get the right bearings for that new spec. Usually you're working in 10,000's of an inch in case of bikes. That's where all the unavailable parts etc etc come in to bite you.
However if the bottom end isn't bad (no rod knock, no broken counter balancer bearing etc etc), I'll just leave the bottom end alone.
Cool.
Buddha.
Cam guide: 1/4" of vertical movement seemed like a lot to me as well, which why I suspect something is not right. Maybe the cushions are missing..... Need to split the case to really tell.
Bearings:
- One of my jobs is designing hydrodynamic bearings for pumps, so I am familiar with tolerances in the 0.0001" range, your comment is well received.
- I looked on the back of the crankcase Counter balance codes are A-B, Crank codes are A-A-A-B (too bad, no ABBA)
- Suzukipartshouse and ronayers.com are both showing green / black / brown / yellow bearing availability. Hopefully they actually have some stock.
- I do not know if there was a knock or not, when I got the bike it was in pieces, I was told it ran when it came apart.....
- Plan for the moment is to open the crankcase and have a look. If it looks bad it may be then end of project, unless I can find parts.
- If it looks good I may try measuring clearances with plastigage or I may just see if it "feels right" and take my chances.....
Seals: I figure it would be downright foolish to put it all back together without new shaft seals.... hence I am looking for a full set. Have not found one yet.
Thanks for your thoughts.
There was an OEM gasket kit, not sure if Suzuki still sells it. There are aftermarket gasket kits. No seal kit I'm aware of though. Is pretty uncommon to do work on the bottom end of these bikes so a complete seal kit wouldn't sell. Few people have the skills to feel confident cracking the case open and even then, it doesn't always pencil out vs throwing in a used motor.
Athena gasket kit was what suzuki used to sell IIRC once they started the Spain manufacturing ~2000-01. Athena was a spanish company I thought.
I've bought a couple of those cos it was $20 or so back in the 00's and the valve cover gasket alone was $26+ from suzuki
Cool.
Buddha.
Split the case tonight and lo and behold the cam guide cushions are missing, which explains all the vertical movement in the guide. Not sure where they went.... I did not find them in the pan or anywhere else.
Visually inspected all the bearings and journals and they look great, except for the countershaft left (generator) side. I saw some wiping and a touch of smearing there. Is that typically the "problem" bearing?
Quote from: arnermd on November 02, 2022, 05:11:55 PM
Split the case tonight and lo and behold the cam guide cushions are missing, which explains all the vertical movement in the guide. Not sure where they went.... I did not find them in the pan or anywhere else.
Visually inspected all the bearings and journals and they look great, except for the countershaft left (generator) side. I saw some wiping and a touch of smearing there. Is that typically the "problem" bearing?
I'm not an expert there, I am of the belief that all counter balancer bearings are "problem" bearings. So left, right, top, bottom, middle north, west, south, east all of them are problem. I hope you figure out and get the right bearings. If you cant do it, no one can LOL.
Cool.
Buddha.
Well.... not a good weekend for the project.
- All 4 valves are bent.... Tried to straighten one of them and I heard a sharp "crack".... in the market for 4 new valves now....
- Checking cam clearances with plastigage and found one of the cam bearing cap bolts holes is completely stripped, will not even get to finger tight.
- Thinking about a helicoil repair here but I am concerned about messing up the pilot diameter for the sleeve that locates the bearing cap.....
- Just checked on this and the thread is M6x1, looks like the drill size for this helicoil is .248" and thread OD is .311, which is smaller than the OD of the dowel @ .314". It should work!? I think....
- How long should the helicoil be? Is 1.5d long enough?
- Other option is to buy a used head with the valves.... concerned because who knows what condition it is in. May be worse than one I got.
- The cam clearances measured OK, even the one with one bolt on it..... 0.002 - 0.004" (allowable is .0059")
I doubt a used head could be in any worse condition than 4 bent valves and a stripped bearing cap bolt hole. You may be able to find a decent head for less than the cost of 4 new valves from Suzuki.
Its been a long time since I've had the top end apart on a GS500 but based on your measurements it sounds like the helicoil will work. You could try it and if it seems wrong then you are only out the price of the helicoil and could move on to the new head idea.
My concern about buying a used head is warpage, cracks and cam shaft bearing wear.... hard to check for that online. you have to trust the seller, who may not even know what they are looking for or how to inspect.
A set of new Suzuki valves is pricing up at $182... which seems like a lot but I have not found any cheaper or any used / aftermarket alternatives. If you know of any please let me know.
- I did find aftermarket valves by Vesrah for slightly less.... $150 for the set.
Used heads are pricing out at around $200 and many do not include valves, condition unknown. New heads are $500 and do not include valves.
At the moment it seems like my best option is to repair / rebuild what I have. Thanks for your thoughts.
There was a company cant remember the name of it right now - But it was in CA - they used to make high quality valves out of inconel. It wont likely be any cheaper but maybe better than the suzuki and likely vesrah.
I know a lot of kawi's have the intake valves receding into the head problem. The suzuki valves were a lot better, but these are guaranteed better.
Oh yea Kibblewhite - That's the name of the company - 1 sec.
https://www.kpmi.us/
Contact them and see if they make em.
Cool.
Buddha.
Not finding anything from Kibblewhite that fits.... but I did find Summit racing sells Vesrah (GG-3024-IN/EX) valves for $20 / $27. So that puts the set of 4 at $94. A lot less than OEM.... Might be my best option.
These valves any good? Not that I plan to run the thing hard or long.... might just be good enough.
Street bike valves have to be made from solid inconel and swirl polished. That's about it. No need for Sodium filled, necked down in the stem or this or that nonsense. Those are all race bike spec valves. BTW Check in with Bluesmudge - he's likely shopping for valves too.
Cool.
Buddha.
Yup...just confirmed that at least one exhaust valve is bent. More than .50 mm valve clearance. Somehow the intake valves seem like they are still in spec. I haven't dug into the engine enough to know if there is damage beyond the valves and cam chain guide. There is a
There is a machine shop guy near me that makes custom valves and does top end work for the 80's Suzuki GS bikes, I wonder if he would make valves for the GS500 and if they would be any cheaper than Suzuki valves. If you want to go crazy he also makes Titanium valves. They are $1000 for a 4 cylinder bike so the GS500 would "only" be $500 :hithead: His ebay store is "smw70ss" or Schumann Motor Works on Facebook.
Yeah.... 500 for a set of valves is not in the cards.... This project is more for fun, I have no real plans for the bike when I am done. I enjoy working on and fixing things so this is therapy for me.
I checked the summit website and they list the valve material as steel, maybe that's correct, maybe not. Vesrah website does not list the material.
In other news I put the case back together last night to measure counterbalance and crank clearances..... not good
- Crank clearances were all about 0.003 (service limit in the manual is .0031). So looks like I am doing bearings..... Question is which ones, I found the stampings on the case and crank so I know which ones should be used when new..... gonna see if I can mic up the journals and bearing thicknesses this weekend.....
- Counter balance bearings are well over .003 (plastigage scale does not go any higher). Might try the red and see if I can get a better reading.... but they are worn out. I can tell by looking at them.
Also found the case is missing three bolts.... wonder where they went? The joys of working on an abandoned project somebody else has mucked with.....ha
I also was able to get a heli coil in the cam bearing cap hole. Was pretty easy, the drill actually fit inside the dowel ID so that helped center it up nice in the drill press. I drove the helicoil too deep but I torqued it up the other night to measure clearance and it felt fine. I am going to call it a success, but not perfect.... Clearance was good too.... Good enough!
This forum really is awesome.... tone of great tips and advice in here.
Another head scratcher.... I used the online parts diagrams to identify where the case bolts go. When I tried to install item 13 it bottomed in thread before clamping on the head... like it was too long. I check the hole and there is nothing in there and the threads are fine. I measured up the casting and I fail to see how a 70 mm long bolt could possibly here.... it is just too long. A 65mm bolt works fine.... I find it hard to believe there is an error in the parts list....
crank case parts diagram.....
I wouldn't put it past Suzuki to list the wrong bolt. They have listed the wrong sump gaskets for certain years and also show the tank petcock mounted backwards in the manual and parts diagrams.
I think I got it figured..... they switched 13 and 14 in the diagram. When I swap those two bolts everything fits up fine....
Odd thing is for my model (N) they list 14 qty as 0..... but for models (R/S/T) qty is 1.... IDK... I am not going to lose any sleep over it. :dunno_black:
Need an opinion from the experts....
Found a chipped dog on the 3/4 drive gear where it engages the 6th gear. Torque should be pretty low in 6th gear.... right?
I really do not want to press off the gears to replace it..... what do you think? I am tempted to let it fly....
OMG, I doubt any one has got this far into a GS transmission.
Cool.
Buddha.
A:Find the bit that chipped off !!!
B: I think anyone who gets an 'unknown' GS500 -First job?... Fit a NEW camchain tensioner. Not too expensive but could save you a major costly rebuild.
Bit that chipped is nowhere to be found..... Looked long and hard. My guess is it came out with an oil / filter change eons ago....
This is my first 4 stroke motorcycle job, not my first engine rebuild. I have numerous cars (Volkswagens beetle and fastback, 140 Volvos, etc...) Chainsaws, lawn mowers, snow-blowers etc....
I like working on this bike engine, big enough to take seriously but small enough to put up on my bench and work in comfort.
Chain tensioner on order along with other bits and bobs....
- Which reminds me... steer clear of Partzilla, I placed an order with them and paid higher prices because the website said ships in 3-4 days.... not so.
- Order placed at end of November
- for 2 weeks after order the cam chain guide date was TBD
- Then it was Jan 3.
- Now it is Feb 15th
3-4 days my a$$....
When I asked if they would should the parts they had they said sure, it will cost you an extra $9.95 in shipping. Seriously.....
Never again.
Yeah I only order from Partzilla when I'm not in a rush. There is always that one small part that delays the whole shipment.
I do like that I can order parts for both my Suzukis and Hondas from them and their OEM parts are usually some of the best prices, but their shipping practices leave a lot to be desired unless you pay the extra $15 or whatever to ship parts as they are available. You do have to remember, that a lot of the more obscure parts are coming from a central parts warehouse or even direct from Japan. And its not just Partzilla. I waited 3+ months for a Suzuki OEM differential seal for my Suzuki car from a different website.
Yeah understood some parts are tough to source, I am OK with that.
What ticks me off is when I placed the order it said 3-4 days shipping, not even close. If I knew that when I placed the order I could have made other plans.....
I am stumped.... wondering if someone could explain this to me....
I purchased part number 09321-10017 (cushion) thinking it was a bumper for the center stand so it did not hot the frame when the stand came up.
See #7 in parts diagram here: Parts diagram (https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/suzuki/motorcycle/1992/gs500et/stand-rear-brake)
But.... If I put the cushion where I thought it went, the cross member does not line up to contact it.....
Capture.JPG
The center stand actually hits the suspension linkage...
Capture2.JPG
So what am I missing here? Is this not the correct center stand? Does the cushion go somewhere else?
I am befuddled.... ???
The stock exhaust has a mount for a rubber bump stop that the center stands rests against.
Hope that helps.
Yes! That is super helpful. Mystery solved, thank you.
My exhaust must not be stock as it does not have the bracket but I see it in the parts diagrams.
Thanks again.
Quote from: arnermd on November 02, 2022, 05:11:55 PMexcept for the countershaft left (generator) side. I saw some wiping and a touch of smearing there. Is that typically the "problem" bearing?
I ran into counterbalance bearing issues too. About half the used counter balancers I've seen listed online have excessive wear, heat discoloration, and or galling on that exact bearing. I got my bike '04 GS500f,Q as salvage basically but since it was in good shape and all there except the body seat and tank, with 15000 miles on it I turned it into a project bike. The dingbats who owned it before me completely scrambled the electrical system. It took me 2 weeks to fix all their butchery and trace the original problem that parked the bike to the kickstand switch. In the process, for unknown reasons, they had removed the stator cover. They put it back on with silicone rtv. If you didn't notice the oil passage that lubricates the end of the balance shaft and it's bearing passes THROUGH the stator cover. The engineer that thought that was a good design needs to be smacked in the face with a burned up balance shaft. Anyway, either the silicone rtv plugged up the oil passage or it was leaking internally so the Bearing wasn't getting any oil. I only discovered this a few hundred miles after getting it running when it started leaking. When I was changing the gasket I saw that the bearing journal was blue around the edges. Never, ever ever ever, use silicone sealant on anything except maybe a bathtub or aquarium. This is what happens. It's been a good bike though. I haven't fixed the balance shaft yet and I've put 6,000+ miles on it since I discovered the burned bearing. It clatters and knocks like a SOB at idle but smoothes out once you get it above 2,500ish rpm. So now I'm looking for a new engine or one to rebuild. The top end is still good, might need some valve seals and I have found a good case with balance shaft at a nice price and was contemplating putting my top end and crank on the "new" case along with new bearings and a quick deglazing and set of rings on the top and possibly having the head milled and reliefs cut into the piston to bring the compression up to something reasonable. Y'all have any thoughts or suggestions on this? For what gaskets, bearings, etc would cost by the end of the rebuild I could buy a low miles used engine. However, it would be just a plain stock engine and could possibly have issues of it's own. I've rebuilt engines before many times everything from big block v-8's to numerous motorcycle engines, even teeny tiny model airplane engines, so I'm confident that I can do it properly and easily. I do like the reassurance that I know that it has been done right when I'm scraping the footpeg at 80mph on an Ozark mountain 2-lane hairpin.
But yeah, like y'all said , new parts are hard to find and\or ridiculously over priced. Is it just because it's a "throw away" entry level bike that no one fixes? Im 45 years old and have been on 2 wheels since I was a toddler. This is my first GS twin and I really like it. It's slow AF as motorcycles go but plenty fast enough to carve 2 lane black top and light enough to really toss around in some curves. I love my GS500. You would think they would be laying around everywhere as many as Suzuki sold and being so hard to find parts for.
Thanks for the tip.... I will check mine out. Is this the area you are talking about?
Capture.JPG
Good news is the re-assembly has begun. Crankcase halves are remarried and all was going very well until....
I got to the clutch install and found a mess of stress cracks in the hub I missed the first time because it was covered in oil....
So..... what do the experts think? Is this useable? I am guessing not.... looks pretty bad.
Capture.JPGCapture2.JPG
Never mind..... found a good looking used one from a 1980 450L on ebay.... $20 not worth messing around....
Quote from: arnermd on January 16, 2023, 07:08:03 AMThanks for the tip.... I will check mine out. Is this the area you are talking about?
Capture.JPG
Yes, that's the culprit! Make sure the passages are clean and open and put a new gasket on it. It doesn't need any silicone, adhesive, or anything. Just carefully clean the surfaces and torque it down properly and it will oil the bearing just fine. I'm pretty sure the passages for the bearings on the other side of the engine have a similar route through the clutch cover. Not 100% sure on that but it bears checking out.
Another sad story.... the inner clutch hub I bought on Ebay arrived and it is in good conditions but sadly it is very similar but not the correct fitment.... Documenting here to avoid a future issue anybody might have.
The part I bought was advertised as "80 Suzuki GS450L OEM Clutch Hub 21411-44101 MS58"
The part number I need for my project (1992 Suzuki GS500) is: 21411-44101
The 1980 GS450L original part number was: 21411-44100 which was then superseded by 21411-44101
I think the part I received is actually 21411-44100 which is not forward compatible.
The issue is the screws that compress the clutch springs will not thread in far enough, they bottom. In 1980 they used shorter screws. So I think -44101 is backwards compatible but -44100 is not forward compatible.
Always something.....
So now I am stuck trying to decide what to do.....
One of my options is to use my old hub pictured above. Although all the cracks are visually alarming I am wondering if they are simply checking from the casting process.... I have seen a few other pics on the web that suggest hubs of this vintage all have some kind of surface cracks.
Partzilla has a picture of what I presume to be a new part that looks eerily similar to mine....
Any suggestions?
Just for posterity.....
I decided to use the used part I bought on ebay. I was able to tap the holes (6mm x 1) and make it work with the longer screws. I had to grind down the shank on the tab because the holes are pretty deep. But I threaded them all the way through and it fits up just fine.
What i did was take a 21411-44100 and turned it into a 21411-44101
Problem solved.
Next problem, signal generator bolt yield....
I bought a new Suzuki bolt, (09103-06064) because I snapped the old one using it to turn the crank through.... duh, don't do that....
Manual says torque to 12.5 - 16.5 ft-lbs. I never got there and felt the bolt yielding at around 9 ft-lbs. Managed to back it out in one piece and it was clearly necking down... (Wondering if the heat treat was not adequate as it necked down quite a bit)
Internet says torque for a 6mm bolt is
- 8.9 ft-lbs for class 8.8
- 12.5 ft-lbs for class 10.9
- 14.7 for class 12.9
Torque specified in the manual seems kind of high..... Maybe I got a soft bolt, maybe the manual is wrong? The world will never know....
Went to the local hardware store and bought a class 8.8 bolt (best they had) and torqued it to 9 ft-lbs.
Quote from: MotoMax77 on January 16, 2023, 12:45:55 AMI ran into counterbalance bearing issues too. About half the used counter balancers I've seen listed online have excessive wear, heat discoloration, and or galling on that exact bearing. I got my bike '04 GS500f,Q as salvage basically but since it was in good shape and all there except the body seat and tank, with 15000 miles on it I turned it into a project bike. The dingbats who owned it before me completely scrambled the electrical system. It took me 2 weeks to fix all their butchery and trace the original problem that parked the bike to the kickstand switch. In the process, for unknown reasons, they had removed the stator cover. They put it back on with silicone rtv. If you didn't notice the oil passage that lubricates the end of the balance shaft and it's bearing passes THROUGH the stator cover. The engineer that thought that was a good design needs to be smacked in the face with a burned up balance shaft. Anyway, either the silicone rtv plugged up the oil passage or it was leaking internally so the Bearing wasn't getting any oil. I only discovered this a few hundred miles after getting it running when it started leaking. When I was changing the gasket I saw that the bearing journal was blue around the edges. Never, ever ever ever, use silicone sealant on anything except maybe a bathtub or aquarium. This is what happens. It's been a good bike though. I haven't fixed the balance shaft yet and I've put 6,000+ miles on it since I discovered the burned bearing. It clatters and knocks like a SOB at idle but smoothes out once you get it above 2,500ish rpm. So now I'm looking for a new engine or one to rebuild. The top end is still good, might need some valve seals and I have found a good case with balance shaft at a nice price and was contemplating putting my top end and crank on the "new" case along with new bearings and a quick deglazing and set of rings on the top and possibly having the head milled and reliefs cut into the piston to bring the compression up to something reasonable. Y'all have any thoughts or suggestions on this? For what gaskets, bearings, etc would cost by the end of the rebuild I could buy a low miles used engine. However, it would be just a plain stock engine and could possibly have issues of it's own. I've rebuilt engines before many times everything from big block v-8's to numerous motorcycle engines, even teeny tiny model airplane engines, so I'm confident that I can do it properly and easily. I do like the reassurance that I know that it has been done right when I'm scraping the footpeg at 80mph on an Ozark mountain 2-lane hairpin.
But yeah, like y'all said , new parts are hard to find and\or ridiculously over priced. Is it just because it's a "throw away" entry level bike that no one fixes? Im 45 years old and have been on 2 wheels since I was a toddler. This is my first GS twin and I really like it. It's slow AF as motorcycles go but plenty fast enough to carve 2 lane black top and light enough to really toss around in some curves. I love my GS500. You would think they would be laying around everywhere as many as Suzuki sold and being so hard to find parts for.
If you can do this with your cams, the noise is cam-walk. You can fix it by upgrading the cams, or you can just ignore it (I couldn't take it..lol) since it is not a damage/damaging condition.
https://youtu.be/ek2jihBHYcc
This is my '05 with under 1000 miles (1600km) at the time. The 04's and 05's had a more serious problem with cam-walk noise, although it was also reported in older models. Suzuki fixed it for the 06+ bikes with different cams and wave washers.
Quote from: arnermd on January 14, 2023, 12:45:14 PMI am stumped.... wondering if someone could explain this to me....
I purchased part number 09321-10017 (cushion) thinking it was a bumper for the center stand so it did not hot the frame when the stand came up.
See #7 in parts diagram here: Parts diagram (https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/suzuki/motorcycle/1992/gs500et/stand-rear-brake)
But.... If I put the cushion where I thought it went, the cross member does not line up to contact it.....
Capture.JPG
The center stand actually hits the suspension linkage...
Capture2.JPG
So what am I missing here? Is this not the correct center stand? Does the cushion go somewhere else?
I am befuddled.... ???
The hole in the bearings assembly is normal, i assume is for the ocassional water going in. mine isnt tapped either
That swingarm link is not the OEM one, thats why it is resting against the centerstand.
It seems to have 2 positions.
As other user already said, in the other side of the frame(not visible in the photo) there is a bracket with a hole for a rubber stop so the centerstand doesnt knock metal to metal, it may be missing in your bike.
Could you make a pic of the crankshaft till the clutch assembly?
When i rebuilt my engine i ended up with a missing thick washer and now my clutch has some knock-play at the end of the travel(when releasing very slow it doesnt happen. i plan to open the side cover and check it but i saw the parts diagram and cant understand what is missing.
Sorry... engine is all sealed up now, so no pics.
As I recall the parts diagram and manual was pretty clear on the order of washers on the shaft. I think item #6 was the thick washer.
If you have a specific question let me know and I will answer best I can.
Update:
- Engine installed and running. :woohoo:
- I took a chance and just bolted the carbs up, threw some fuel at it and it started and ran. Unable to achieve a stable idle.
- No exhaust system installed so the neighborhood was aware of the milestone.... haha
- Fuel inlet tee is leaking, new seals on order
- Opened up the carbs and the o-rings are hard as a rock, I think the float needles were leaking fuel. Seemed like it was running rich..... Carb rebuild kit on order.
- Checked compression warm: Left = 145, right = 125. In spec but the right side is lower than I would like. Going to pressurize the cylinder and see if I can figure out what is leaking (rings, valves or head gasket)
- Oil pressure light went out with starter cranking so that seems good. Hopefully it is not too high (which would indicate a blockage) probably should check it with a gage.....
Project is coming along nicely.
Update:
- rebuilt carbs with stock jets. We shall see...
- Rebuild kit did not contain the float o-rings, that's pretty annoying. I think they are 6mm x 8mm x 1mm , a little hard to find, got some on order.
- Edit: Not sure 6x8x1 mm is the right size, seems a little small. I was able to install 2 in each groove and just went with it.....
- Left cylinder running very rich, fuel coming out the exhaust port while running! Scary!
- Found a leaky petcock diaphragm.... Fuel in the vacuum line. Searching this forum it seems to be a pretty common problem.
After hours of searching (this forum and others) I am unable to find a replacement diaphragm, would need to purchase a whole new valve. Would rather not spend $60-70 on a new valve when a $20 diaphragm would fix the issue.
Anybody know of a source of supply for a 92 GS500 frame petcock diaphragm?
Gonna pinch off the vacuum line and run on prime setting for now.
Rebuilt carbs installed, blocked off the vac line to the petcock. much much better.... Definitely have a leaky diaphragm.
Was able to do an initial mixture adjustment and balance. Ended up with mixture ~3 turns out. Idles real nice and good throttle response off the idle.
Checked compression after 20 minutes of running and it was 145/137 cold, a little oil in cylinders brought it to 155/151. A bit better than where I started so hopefully the rings seat nice and it climbs a bit more.
Next up is a test ride to put it under some load.
Ordered a petcock rebuild kit off Amazon from All Balls (60-1309). Nice kit but the diaphragm does not fit correctly, it is just a bit too small in diameter so the OD does not sit in the groove. Working with All Balls now to see if they will replace it under warranty.
Rigged up some fuel line and and rode the bike for a short ride. No significant issues. Needs some more carb tuning.
Had a hard time getting from first gear back to neutral, kept finding second.... not sure if there is an issue there or just operator error.
Checked compression, 150/150 with engine warm.
It can be hard to find neutral sometimes. Seems like how warm the engine is, what oil you are using, how old the oil is, and having a perfect 3 point clutch adjustment all effect it. If your oil has some miles on it, sometimes an oil change makes the transmission work much nicer.
Running 10W-30, has 0.8 miles on the oil....hahaha.
Fresh rebuild so new oil. Probably should run some break in oil?
Clutch seems fine, but I will double check the adjustments.
Wondering if that spring (#21) on the gear cam might be a little soft? As I recall that detent on the cam sets in the pocket there to help locate neutral....
Thanks for the suggestions.
Capture.JPG
Quote from: arnermd on April 03, 2023, 05:29:13 AMOrdered a petcock rebuild kit off Amazon from All Balls (60-1309). Nice kit but the diaphragm does not fit correctly, it is just a bit too small in diameter so the OD does not sit in the groove. Working with All Balls now to see if they will replace it under warranty.
Please update on how this turns out! I was looking to replace my petcock diaphragm before it gave out. The lack of options aside from a $100 total replacement turned me off from doing that.
If the All Balls kit actually fits, I might give it a shot.
Quote from: arnermd on April 03, 2023, 04:23:32 PMRunning 10W-30, has 0.8 miles on the oil....hahaha.
Fresh rebuild so new oil. Probably should run some break in oil?
Conventional or synthetic? From what I've heard, you should stick with conventional oil after a rebuild. It allows everything to wear in together properly.
I definitely notice a difference in my transmission with used vs. new oil. It shifts a lot better with new oil. On mine, I have a hard time getting into first when the oil is dirty.
If you're off a fresh rebuild, you might just have to deal with a bit of wonky shifting until all the metal shavings come free and and oil is changed.
Oil is conventional, I also read that synthetic is "too good" for break-ins....
I have contacted all balls and they are going to send me a new kit, but I have not received it yet. Will let you know how it turns out.
You can buy entire valves for < $100 I have seen some for $65 on eBay. Don't buy them all.... I might need one. :laugh:
*** I just noticed you have a 2006, I do not think that kit will fit your valve. Fitment is listed as 1989 - 2000
I am happy to report All-Balls sent me a free replacement kit and the new diaphragm fits perfectly in my valve.
Not happy about getting a bad part initially but very happy with how they handled it. I will buy from them again.
All-Balls is fine, but I will say their whole business model seems to be making it easy to find bearings that fit for people who don't know just how standard bearings sizes and configurations are. Once you figure out the standard bearing size you need by reading your factory bearing, you can find a much higher quality made in Japan/USA bearing for the same price or less than All-balls made in China products. Just call your local bearing house or for a little more money find it on mcmaster.com
For stuff like petcock diaphragms, carb parts, etc. I think they are great. Any company who is willing to continue making parts that fit older motorcycles after the OEMs stop making parts is a good company in my book.
Let us know how the diaphragm replacement goes. The general consensus here had been to replace the entire petcock, especially for the '04+ new style. because people had had poor success with refurbishing them.
I installed an all balls front bearing kit and it seems fine, but too early to tell really.
Valve rebuild went fine once I had the right diaphragm. As always, careful attention to detail is required, but it was not difficult.
Bench tested the rebuilt valve by applying vacuum (sucked on a hose and clamped it off with vice grips) and verified the ports were open while setting the valve to the various positions. Vacuum held overnight.... so i think its leak tight....
Also verified ports were closed with no vacuum.
Ready to install and put fuel to it this weekend.
Well..... One step forward two steps back. Today I was trying to free up a frozen carb mounting screw, had the carbs on the bench, used some valve grinding compound to get a better grip on the Philips head.
Managed to break the screw free but broke the damn nipple on the diaphragm cover in the process.... Arggggg. :hithead:
I didn't really even need to get that screw out, just did it because it was the "right thing" to do....No good deed goes unpunished.
Gonna try some epoxy, we shall see. A new one is $45 with shipping.
Bought a good used diaphragm cover on Ebay, from Katana but same part as the GS500E. All good now, $25 mistake....
Carbs are in, remounted airbox, new hoses and installed the gas tank and seat. Looks like a real bike now.
The Wiki was incredibly helpful for hose routing, a big thanks to those who put it together.
What's left? Body panels and exhaust.
Looks like I have a Vance & Hines slip on system with no mounting hardware.
Anybody have a picture or instructions on how to mount the Vance and Hines muffler?
All I have is the slotted bracket welded to the can.
I assume there is another bracket and a dog bone that bolts to the muffler and the mounting hole in front of the passenger peg???
I got the exhaust hung :woohoo:
Had to fabricate my own bracket from flat stock. Pics below in case anybody ever wants to know.... it was a fun arts and crafts project.
Came up with a clever mounting scheme using cariage bolts and I made some dogs to sit in the square for anti rotation of the bolt. Seems to work pretty well.
More pics....
This is driving me batty ??? ..... Clutch Switch.
Am I correct in that the starter should only crank with the clutch lever pulled in?
The parts diagram seems to indicate otherwise. Notice in the pic below the board contacts are clearly shown on the side towards the center of the bike. This would mean the starter solenoid circuit is only closed when the clutch lever is out, which makes no sense to me. Why would you want the bike to only start when the clutch is out? :cookoo:
Maybe I should bypass the darn thing and be done with it....
Well.... this project has just about come to an end.
- Spent the last month doing paint and clearcoat. Polishing, sanding, polish again....
- Repacked the exhaust
Seems to run pretty good. Unlicensed, unregistered and uninsured... I do not go too far.
Anyone interested in taking it for a test ride let me know, I would appreciate any feedback. I am in northeast CT.
Time to sell it and move on to my next project.
Hello All,
Been a year since I finished the restoration, have not sold it yet, just too much fun. I have been doing 10 -15 min rides locally a couple times a month to keep things lubricated. Thing runs like a top.
I normally park it with the clutch lever pulled in to avoid sticking, but this last time I forgot to do it and the clutch stuck in less than 24 hours.... I was able to break it free by hand on the center stand, so not too bad.
When I rebuilt the engine I filed down the ridges on the clutch basket and checked all plates for flatness and thickness. Clutch is adjusted correctly and no other issues.
- Is this normal for this bike?
- Do you all park it and strap the clutch lever down right away?
- Could it be the oil?
- I think I used either Castrol or Rotella auto oil in it. 10W-30
- I do not have any slippage, just seems to stick after sitting for a day....
Thanks for any suggestions....
i would prefer it sticking than having tension on the cable all the time.
Anyway it shouldn t be that bad, moving the bike in neuitral with clutch pulled in unlocks it, if not, the first gear will clunk and then it will "unstick"}
That is normal on many bikes
Update for posterity regarding my sticking clutch issue.
Changed the oil from Castrol to Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Full Synthetic SAE 10W-40 Motor Oil.
After a 3 point clutch adjustment my sticking clutch issue is resolved completely. No issues even after sitting all winter. Runs great, shifts nicer too....
Anybody interested in purchasing the bike please let me know.
Looks great and looks like i could ride it all the way back to houston! :)