Well I meant to mention this earlier but about a week ago in first period one of the teachers peeks his head in the door and asks for my 1st period teacher to come here. Well they are talking pretty quiet but I can hear what they are saying. I hear, "when the bell rings tell all your students to stay in their seats. Well after the bell rings we're all in our seats still. I knew something was up. Then I hear lots of footsteps come down the hall and I hear a dog's little high pitched sigh. And men in "blue" suits. Next thing we know we have and officer come into our room with a cardboard box and he says, "Allright, I'm ______ from the Kingston police department. You got 60 seconds to put anything illegal in this box and when I come back in you wont be arrested (including cellphones). Next thing you know the cardboard box is filled with cigarettes, blunts, lighters, and about 20+ cellphones in a 30 person class. I heard that other rooms had pills in the boxes, bags of weed and cocaine in them. After the 60 seconds we are ordered to go out in the hall ways. I see about 11 cops in this particular hallway out of almost 1000 student body total. A k-9 then sweeps by us and all the lockers "suspected" are also checked.
PART2
Once you think it's over it's not. about 15 minutes after the in-school raid, all the cars are gone over by drug dogs, about 20 cars are searched, 11 cars have paraphenailia (bad spelling) and 11 kids are hand cuffed and taken away. All the streets to the school and parking lots are blocked off and no students are allowed to check out or leave. It was a very crazy expiriece, and needless to say I did NOT have anything illegal. and the one day i didnt bring my cellphone, was this day.
anyone had anything similar?
-ace
P.S. I'd say there were about 20 cop cars, 30 cops, 1 state trooper, 1 k-9 suburban, and 2 knoxville tv stations there.
Yep. About once a month for us. But we hardly do the box thing. The other week there were 43 arrests (at the same time) at the local bowling alley. Let's see, there was under-age drinking, smoking, drugs, drunk in public. Some people were having sex an public and all this other stuff. Our place is like the nimber one place in the state for drugs and stuff like that. About 2 months ago there were 3-4 fights in one week. One of the fights was over a CELL PHONE and both people were my friends. It starts to get really stupid after a while. We had 15 cars searched out for drugs and stuff. We have about 2000+ people in our school and cops and security guards are at our school every day. We even have student security guards, i.e. narks, at our school.
Since when are cellphones illegal? I mean, if it's against school policy, they can take the phone away while you are in school and suspend you a couple days. But that's personal property not restricted by government law (unlike underage smoking) Of course, the little punks should have the things turned off!
I'm glad I'm years out of high school. The whole situation is screwed up. Getting lined up like criminals, possessions confiscated, unreasonable search and seizure. Of course, the parents refulsing to take responsibility for their children's upbringing, lawyers involved... I suppose it has come to this sort of reaction. Ridiculous though :( Let people be free, and when they misstep, lay the smack down on that individual.
dang! sex in public, they must've been pretty shatfaced! lol
Yea, shatfaced and then some. People are always high and drunk at my school. Its crazy. But I would like to mention on this board i have NEVER smoked weed or anything like that.
cops came in same kind of deal, but when they were searching the room they used a new k9. They planted a baggie of weed for the dog to find as part of the training. Nothing was found in the class but about 10 minutes later the cop barged back into the room, went to some kids bag and took out the stash they had planted for the dogs training. it would have been neat to find out later that day that you had been hooked up by the cops.
Quote from: ACEYou got 60 seconds to put anything illegal in this box and when I come back in you wont be arrested (including cellphones).
School policy can state that no cellphones are allowed, but the police cannot arrest you for violating school policy. That's a school matter. The school can eject you, suspend you... whatever. But not a criminal arrest, unless you break the law... a REAL law, enacted by a real legislature.
Besides, unless they were going to body-search you, they're not going to find a cell-phone. Not unless they bring some GSM-sniffing dogs next time.
96gs wrote:
Quotei have NEVER smoked weed or anything like that.
.
okay we believe ya ;) :nana:
I remember that ridiculousness from my high school days. The one instance that sticks out in my mind is the time one of the drug dogs took a piss on a guy's backpack that was laying in the floor. Of course, we weren't in the room at the time of the search, so we just assume it was the dog and not an officer that relieved himself.
hey ace is there a "well" endowed female at your school by the name of loni/lani?
Yea the whole cell phone thing has me perplexed. There is no way they can take away property like that. If my cell phone was confiscated I'd be taking them to small claims court.
Oh yea and who in their right mind would put cigarettes and lighters in the box also. May be against school policy but unless they physically search you they won't catch you with it.
Hey, was John Ashcroft there? :nana:
Jeebus. That's unheard of where I am. It just seems to me like a completely blatant disregard for constitutional rights. I mean, if there were kids that were acting suspiciously and they were searched, that's one thing. But to go into a school and make everyone do that? Did anyone's parents complain to the school and/or Police department?
I can't even relate to this due to the fact that I've been out of the primary education system for so long. All that I can think of when I hear of such "raids" is that I survived the public school system without them. It seems like such a friggin waste of time.
We worried about grades, not police.
Quote from: bbanjoI can't even relate to this due to the fact that I've been out of the primary education system for so long. All that I can think of when I hear of such "raids" is that I survived the public school system without them. It seems like such a friggin waste of time.
We worried about grades, not police.
My thoughts exactly, How are you supposed to learn in this kind of environment??? I'm only 3 years out of public HS and fortunatly we never had anything like this. Yes everyone knew there were drugs around(quite a bit it seemed like), but things were dealed with on a case by case basis and everyone else was able to learn without all that ridiculous distraction. NO, not everyone was caught, probably very few, but at least our privacy was respected for the most part. And I came out with a very good education.
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:nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana:
That's absolute :bs: . Hearing stuff like that just pisses me off
That's when you tell the cops to go f' themselves.
:x
I can understand the drugs... even searching for them, if they have K9s and aren't using it as an excuse to just search whatever they feel like searching.
Drugs in school are a problem. I don't care if you're into that kind of thing, don't bring it to school.
However, whats up with the cell phone thing? How are those illegal? they aren't illegal in Utah, and if they are just against school policy, the cops certainly can't confiscate them.
Well in the ancient times some kids would go out to the parking lot and get high and it didn't seem to hurt anybody. I don't know, today things are all different. A kid sneaks out of his home, gets drunk (illegal underage drinking), drives around with a car full of friends (other minors in a car with an underage driver is also illegal in mass) and crashes and kills himself and injures all his buddies. Instead of the school saying "Hey, look at him, he broke the law and dies because of his own stupidity" the school holds a vigil, cancels classes, eulogizes what a great kid he was :?
WTF is wrong with people? Self responsibility people. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
hey all, it's been months since i posted here, but i've had some crazy stuff going on lately. What with college, winter without my bike, and loads of other personal junk, i've been bogged down. Just got back to this page today and saw this article and i've got a few questions for anyone else with legal information or with working knowledge of highschool law. It seems to me that bringing in drug dogs, and instituting pat downs is a violation of rights. I may have only had a few american judicial system classes here at school, but all the same, they had no suspicion, no cause, and no reason to even detain you. To randomly search every student is a violation of personal privacy, which is protected under the 6th and 15th amendments.
i realized that school is private property, but all the same, without cause you cannot be searched anywhere. i would imagine that if a kid who got busted this way wanted to make it a serious legal issue with appelate courts and what not they would make quite a headline. So anyone that can clear up for me why they can now legally do this in highschool, i'd be interested. oh, and i'll try to get back into the swing of things on this board again, catch ya later.
man only 433 posts :( i fell so far behind everyone in my absence.
dude im sittin in school now; cellphone out and text messaging my girlfriend. my school is leanient on cell phones and drugs are not taken seriously. We live in th eproclaimed meth capital or the U.S. because of highway 81. I dont know much about it but we have dog searches about once a year.
well first off if the parents went to the police station they could prob. get there kids cellphones back. not that they should,why do kids need cellphones really? let me say it sucks that kids have to go through this..but! somekids brought it to them. there are to many punks in school and there getting others into drugs and such. the fact is kids need a scare they need to know its not a game or a MTV video. kids are dieing nowadays from drugs and violence and if this help save one kid its worth it. now if the parents would put a foot in there a@@ now and then i think kids would think twice about what there doing because they know theres going to be a reaction to every action. I.E. kid+lie = kick in the a@@. its that easy!! you think i am wrong? think about your little sister having sex with 5 or 10 guys at a party because she needed some crack or wanted to be popular, don't say it wouldn't happen because i know a girl that slept with every guy at a party just because she wanted the attention. boy did i make this long or what, ok i'm done
that's a pretty bad argument fmikex. some kids brought it on themselves, so therefore the whole school populace should be treated like criminals? Well hey, there's plenty of crackheads and dope smokers across the USA, and they're adults, maybe we all brought it on ourselves too and should be searched randomly with no prior cause or reasonable suspicion, right? raiding schools for guns and drugs is not going to stop kids from using them. to assume that it will assumes a direct causation that no one has any reason to assume. teaching a kid that if he does drugs his parents will be mad at him does not teach him good cause effect relationships. teaching a kid that if he does drug A that negative consequences such as physical damage, addiction, etc will happen to him is. Teach the kids why they shouldn't do drugs and carry guns, not just that you don't think they should. kids don't respect authority that doesn't back up their claims with reason, at least me and my friends never did back then.
If they had reasonable cause for the search, then it's legal... which it sounds like they did. and it didn't sound like they searched everyone's belongings or anything, just searched for drugs with drug dogs, which means they probably didn't even touch most kids stuff at all... just the ones who had illegal drugs. Sure, it inconveniences the others, but it also helps the others realize that it's stupid to have drugs, since they will quite likely get caught.
Cell phone is what doesn't make sense to me. Sure, many kids have no use for them, but when I was in highschool I needed a cell phone. I kept the ringer off during class (which they should do, if they have them.. it's only polite) but I needed it for my job. I was doing professional web development when I was in highschool... not just making web pages, writing software, like this message forum, or performance management software that HR depts in big companies are still using.
No, I'm not intending to brag, nor do I think that I was "so cool" when I was in highschool.. actually, I was a bit of a geek. alright, so I still am. the point is, though, that many kids have legitimate reasons that they need cell phones. No, they don't have legit reasons that they need to answer them during class, but not even having them in their backpacks? that's insane.
what i'm asking is what makes it sound like they had reasonable cause for the search? "uhhh, we think some kids at this school use drugs." "hey, lets just search them all indescriminately!" that's the thought process i'm getting out of this search. you must have reasonable cause per person not just per school. as to the usage of drug dogs, therefore that not meaning it was a search; a lineup of students subjected to one at a time sniffing, is a search. i dunno, i just think it sounds rather questionable. yeah kids shouldn't have drugs in school, but kids shouldn't be treated like criminals either (then again i don't think anyone with drugs should be treated like a criminal; but that's me).
If a cellphone is on that's one thing. There's a simple answer: Turn it off during class or get it taken away. That's perfectly reasonable. :roll:
People are so stupid. I hate authority. A lot.
well i don't like the idea of people loseing there freedom anymore than any of you, but something must be done. kids need that dose of reality to understand what there getting into is wrong. doing heavy drugs or should i say doing drug heavy always screws up your life and can destroy families, do you really think the cops got enough drugs to make a small dent in what is sold/used buy school kids? not even close they were making a statement to the people selling it in schools the people supplying it to them and most of all the kids who will be faced with the choice of doing or selling it in the future. the cops know alot about what goes on around town they know what kids are or probably are selling it and who they get it from. just think if they let it just happen without doing anythingto stop it or keep it under control. sense the 70's its gone from kids smoking pot before class to selling hard drugs in class.some kids in school are druggy losers but most are fine, how is looking for drugs in school hurt the kids that don't have any? what freedom did they lose from not having anything to put in that box?some did lose there cells and that is wrong and the parents need to stand up for there kids rights. besides a locker search is alot better than the full body cavity search they get going into jail.you think your losing freedom now? wait till crime gets even more out of control.you will lose more of you freedom maybe all your freedom.the only chance there is to stopping it the way things are going is to keep crime under control.and to stand up for your rights. but nobody has the right to steal, murder or sell illegal drugs
OK, why does it stop at kids? Why don't we start going in and doing random searches on low class neighborhoods? Or on minority neighborhoods?
The fact is that F-ing parents are taking no reponsibility for their kids, and instead, spending their time complaining to other people. If you raise your kid to know the difference between right and wrong, he/she will not have these problems later in life. And the fact of the matter is that kids will always have a choice, the answer lies in teaching them how to make thse choices. God knows I've had enough opportunities to do stupid things, but my solid upbringing directed me otherwise. :x
ACE hasn't been back to clarify about the cell phones. Maybe the act of bringing a cell phone in school wasn't illegal in and of itself. Maybe it was illegal to have one that belonged to someone else (stolen) or that was linked to drug ops or something?
fmikex
first you say that the kids who were wrongly searched lost nothing for it (that it was ok), and then you say people should stand up for their rights. well which is it? should inocent people have to allow themselves to be searched for no reason, or should they stand up for their rights and not be? let's not be contradictory here.
why need a cell phone, youre in class, there are payphones nearby, folks need to get ahold of you, call the office they come after you :dunno:
Quotewhy need a cell phone, youre in class, there are payphones nearby, folks need to get ahold of you, call the office they come after you
CAUSE THIS IS MOTHER F-ING AMERICA!!! This bill called the constitution pretty much ensures I can do whatever the hell I want as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses rights. If I feel like saying that Bush is a raging idiot, it is my god-given right to do so. :x
Sorry, nothing annoys me more than people telling me I can't o things.
PS John Ashcroft needs to get kicked in the teeth. I want my civil rights back.
I agree that kids probably don't NEED to have a cellphone in class. But that they should feel obligated to surrender them just because a policeman says so? That's why I'm wondering what kind of "Uh-oh! Caught!" reactions were going on in the room.
So I'd still like to know - what's the school policy (and the law) in ACE's area?
I don't remember the specific sections, but there is a provision in the law where at times officers put themselves on the line. If they find something, the search was justified, if not, they go to jail. it's not a very often used clause, since if you're wrong you pay for it, seriously.
I didn't see anything about people being wrongfully searched... my impression was that the cops came in, told everyone to put everything that they had that was illegal in the box, and then had drug sniffing dogs look for drugs. I didn't hear anything about random searches of backpacks, strip searches, or anything else that in any way violated anyone's constitutional rights. If a drug dog decides there is drugs in a locker or backpack, that's considered justifiable cause to search that backpack in most people's opinion.
So in other words, I don't think they even needed a warrant for what they did. They only need a warrant to search something that the kids won't let them search... and even then, if a dog says there is drugs in it, they probably won't have trouble getting one.
now, if they had come through and started doing random searches of lockers, or backpacks, or anything like that... now then I would join with anyone else wanting to fight that to the last.
Also, how do you know they didn't have reason to believe there were drugs there? They may have had camera footage of drug sales on campus, or firsthand reports, or any number of other things that would hold up in court good enough to get them a warrant.... we don't know. again, though, I don't think anything they did violated anyone's personal rights.
I do have to say, though, that unless there are some laws that have been made in that state about cell phones, anyone who threw their phone in the box was foolish... since a dog won't find that, and I can't see how it could be illegal, honestly. I wonder if it's legal for them to tell the students to do something that the cops can't actually enforce? For instance, maybe they ask for the cell phones, then gave them to the administration... but if anyone didn't give up their cell phone, they wouldn't get in trouble.
interesting questions... do we really have no law enforcement on this page that could clarify?
Well, the fact that there were kids there, innocent or not, and trying to get an education does not warrant a searching or assumption of guilt. Regardless of whether they are guilty or not, a school is a learning institution, and kids should not have to enter with fear of being violated by the police. It is not some rough street corner, it is a school.
Cops are sneaky. They knew the kids didn't know any better than to say no because it is their right to say so. They just submitted because the police were bullying them into doing their jobs because the pigs were too lazy to do it themselves.
As for a reasonable search on the guilty parties, that's fine..IF they had a reasonable cause. That still does not warrant going through ALL the classes one by one.
:nana: SUCK :x IT :x PIGS :nana:
Quote from: CasiCUA:nana: SUCK :x IT :x PIGS :nana:
Nice custom title CasiCUA :lol: :thumb:
Ok. First.
The police can ask the school: "Can we search the school?"
Of course the school says: "Sure, because we dont want drugs in our school"
The police then have the right to search the property.
Lockers are school property, and therefore the cops can search them. The students have NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY in lockers.
Drug dogs through the class room, is also LEGAL. They are not searching the students or their bags, but if the dog smells something on a student, the police then have PROBABLE CAUSE to search that student's belongings.
Whether you like it or not, it IS LEGAL. Thats the way it is, so get over it.
I think the cops were being pretty nice by giving them the box to put their drugs in in the first place. Where I went to school, you didnt get a box. If you had drugs, you go to jail.
Seems pretty fair to me.
I dont like authority all that much either, but some of you guys are just being childish.
now there is no law i know of that says kids can't have cell phones, and with kids disappearing getting raped and murdered i think its a good idea for them to have a way to call for help if theres someone following them or there lost or whatever. but lets remember people this was a public school see thats alot different than going into your house and searching your stuff. i mean if you get pulled over for driving crazy the cops can search your car even get dogs to sniff it out. but without just cause they can not go into your home and start searching. its against your right as a U.S. citizen, but you give up alot of them rights when you commit a crime. it there choice. do the crime and take the chance or stay strait and have no worry. as i understand there were no personal searchs on people. if a cops put his hands on my 12 year old daughter to search her without a just cause, i am going to fight for my daughters right not to be touched buy anybody she doesn't want to be touched buy. but if she is smoking pot behind the school and gets busted. i would think it was fine for a female cops to search her. fight for your rights people if you believe drugs should be legal fight for it, its your right. but if you don't don't cry when you get busted.
besides just think about the kids the punk druggy kids nowadays are going to raise, and what they will be like and there kids and theres. its your future who do you want living next door to you and your kids?????
QuoteLockers are school property, and therefore the cops can search them. The students have NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY in lockers.
WRONG. If I am in my health club, unless I submit to some kind of waiver, no one has the right to go through my personal belongings without my consent if they have no reasonable cause. Secondly, it's as if I parked my car in a private lot. It does not make it subject to break ins and searches unless specified. Just because I have my things on another property does not make them free game.
QuoteDrug dogs through the class room, is also LEGAL. They are not searching the students or their bags, but if the dog smells something on a student, the police then have PROBABLE CAUSE to search that student's belongings
That is also debateable. Regardless of age, it does not entitle the kids to be subject to searches by the polica at all times. A search dog is called a search dog for a reason. Because it is SEARCHING through your things.
QuoteI think the cops were being pretty nice by giving them the box to put their drugs in in the first place. Where I went to school, you didnt get a box. If you had drugs, you go to jail.
Seems pretty fair to me.
Wow, those cops sure were swell and nice :thumb: . THAT I attribute to the kids not knowing their rights. No one had to put anything in that box. Frankly, just because a cop says so doesn't make it the law.
I'm not arguing in defense of the guilty, I'm arguing in defense of the innocent kids who just go to school to get an education. Those kids should not be subject to search, and have to live in fear of the police. I mean, did everyone forget the constitution.
And I'm not childish, you're just a doo-doo head :nana:
casi, ya know i agree with you in most things, but unforunately you are wrong in one thing. school lockers are free to be searched at any time. the thing with your health club example is that when you put your lock on it, it becomes your locker for the day. at school, you use their locks, and they are their lockers, therefore, they are the schools private property, not yours. therefore they can be opened at will. i'm not exactly clear on the status of moving your stuff around in the locker for a search, or if they need plain view though, so that's kinda in the air.
as per the drug dog, you are right. a cop needs reasonable suspicion to get a drug dog to search you. reasonable suspicion comes from a "feeling" that something isn't right, they don't need probable cause for a drug dog. a drug dog sniffing drugs then gives them probable cause which allows them to search. therefore, their mass drug dog sniffing seems to me to be a violation of rights. they may have had reasonable suspicion for some students at the school, maybe even probable cause if they had seen selling/using going on, however, this does not grant them reasonable suspicion on the whole of the student body. the drug dogs were wrongly used.
as for you not arguing in defense of the guilty, well, i am. if they were found accidentally through mass drug dog sniffings they were wrongfully searched, and therefore their drugs are innadmissable in court (if someone wanted to make a big deal out of it). unfortunately, they'll just get yelled at by their parents and probably pay the citation. this is not a matter of me wanting law breakers to suceed, or get away with things, it's a matter of me wanting the law to be upheld, and searching illegaly does not cover that.
Quoteas for you not arguing in defense of the guilty, well, i am. if they were found accidentally through mass drug dog sniffings they were wrongfully searched, and therefore their drugs are innadmissable in court
I agree 100%, I really meant to say that I wasn't advocating bringing drugs to school necessarily, but the real victims moreso the innocents who were violated than the illegaly searched kids who were screwed over.
On a sidenote, I'd also like to say, that as much as I do appreciate the protection that the police provide our communities with, it is also necessary to keep them in check. I don't hate on ALL cops, I just hate the ones who abuse their power and bully people around because they are too lazy to go about proper protocol under our legal system.
I agree. there are a lot of corrupt law enforcement out there... it's a sad fact that just because they are trained and put on the badge, they don't become any more than human, but being only human some feel that the badge *makes* them more than human and raises them above other people.
The point with the box is valid... you are right. they were under no obligation at all to put anything in the box. In fact, it's entirely possible that had nobody put anything in the box, they wouldn't have brought the students out of the classroom.
So it's a double-edged sword.
They were kind, sortof. Generally, anyone who has illegal drugs in their posetion goes to jail. so providing a way out is a mercy... unless nobody takes it at all. Once someone has taken it, it is now reasonable to assume that if some of the students had drugs, some of the others might also have drugs. Had nobody put anything illegal in the box, they probably couldn't have brought in the dogs.
Then once they had reasonable cause, the dogs will find any drugs that are around.
Searching vehicles... they could take drug dogs around it, I'm sure... I can't see how that could be illegal. now, if the dog didn't detect anything inside, it's certainly not legal for them to search the car. unless they were searching the cars belonging to those who they had found drugs on?
and the lockers, as others have mentioned, are searched and/or checked by school administration all the time. School lockers are property of the school, not rented or lent out, and anything you keep in there is subject to being looked in at. I'm pretty sure they couldn't actually search a bag w/out your consent or a warrant (probably cause), but that doesn't stop them from taking dogs down the line to find them.
Anyway, all things considered, it doesn't sound like the police were too overly zealous. They could have been a lot meaner to a lot of kids, but it sounds to me like the goal was to discourage kids from having drugs in school. It's probably not quite the way I'd do it, but I don't know that I have a better idea either, so I'm not going to criticize them.
If you are so angry at their behavior, then what is your solution to the problem? Allow kids to have drugs in schools? I don't want my kids to have to deal with that. not even just coming across the drugs... a lot of kids when they are on drugs get mean.
just my $0.02
QuoteIf you are so angry at their behavior, then what is your solution to the problem? Allow kids to have drugs in schools? I don't want my kids to have to deal with that. not even just coming across the drugs... a lot of kids when they are on drugs get mean.
My solution would be for parents to take friggin control of their kids.
Parents have know what's going on in their child's life. I can argue this as an only child of two full time working parents. They were always involved in my life, and when I strayed from right, they were on my back about it. This kept me out of trouble. I have no problems with harsh punishments for repeated delinquents, no one wants drug infested schools. My qualm lies in the enforcement of these policies, it is twofold:
The police are not some kind of marshall law. They must abide by protocol, or the whole system falls apart, and we end up living in fear of authority. The school does have an obligation to keep kids in a safe environment, but at the same time, keep them from having their privacy violated.
Take this terrorism situation for example. No one wants terrorists running around, but the government should not be knocking down everyone's door forcing them to submit to searches. We don't live in a police state, and we shouldn't subject our kids to that. There is a very fine median between safety and liberty.
Stick to the topic at hand, casi... you oviously have had some other experiences that have set your teeth on edge dealing with cops, but those aren't the issue we are even talking about. Don't rant about cops knocking people's doors in when what we are talking about had nothing to do with that.
They may have been less polite than I'd like, but I don't know that I can blame them for that. Other than that, I have yet to see (other than the cell phone question) anything that they did that deviated from "protocol" at all. Yes, there are other cases where that has happened... but you are blowing this one way out of proportion. Calm down a bit.
That said, I think you have an excelent point. Parents certainly should be controlling their kids. Any parent who was keeping an eye on their kids well enough at that school didn't have anything to worry about, since their child didn't have drugs. kudos to them.
What does that say about the parents of the kids with drugs? Some don't pay enough attention. some don't care. Some may have even given the kids the drugs ( :x :nono: :guns: ). In a perfect world, all parents would take the same level of responsibility that your parents, and mine, took. We'd all be happier.
As soon as you come up with a way to do this, we can let all the law enforcement officers go home, stop risking their lives fighting crime (you *did* know that when they aren't searching schools, many of those cops get shot at by the guys who sold those kids the drugs, right?), and spend more time with their families.
Until then, lets do everything we can to make sure that the cops who let power go to their heads are stopped, but try to remember that someone has got to stop these things, and it's not always just the power trip you're inclined to make it.
rich, i don't think casi was necesarilly putting his tin foil cap on and saying we will live ina police state, or that's how it is; he was pointing out the analogy of randomly searching a classroom full of kids to randomly knocking on doors and searching houses. he wasn't blowing it out of proportion, he was drawing a parallel.
anyway, in your previous writting, i disagree. telling kids in a class to put drugs in a box, not seeing who did it, and having no idea if they all came from one kid does not give them reasonable suspicion to search a whole room full of kids. you say that since one of the kids put drugs in the box, it is therefore reasonable to assume that more of the kids have drugs; exactly what kind of logic is that? i believe we call that logic typecasting, and profiling. if you're in a mall, and someone in the store is caught smoking a joint, should everyone in the whole mall, including yourself, be subjected to a search? oh, and possession of illegal drugs does not send you directly to jail, generally for pot at least it's just a citation.
as for searching vehicles, they need a reason to bring drug dogs in. a drug dog is a search, therefore a cop can't just walk his dog around every single car he pulls over just cause he wants to. that's against the law.
i'm all fine and dandy with the idea of discouraging drug use in kids, that's fine, go ahead and discourge. but, i draw the line at encroaching upon their rights. they're kids, not criminals, and not animals. hell, they're not even kids, they're highschoolers. highschoolers, while not being the brighetest age group generally, still hav esome cognitive power. it doesn't matter how many times you "discourage", they'll still make up their own mind and do what they think is right. so discourage with active conversation, thoughtful manners, and facts; not with grey area legal shows of force. that's pathetic.
you don't want your kids to have to deal with drugs in school? i'm sorry man, but drugs are in schools, drugs are at work, drugs are at the mall, drugs are everywhere. you can't shelter your kid, and you shouldn't want to. sheltering is what leads to mistakes. teach your kid, and respect what he says, don't just tell him right and wrong (your opinion), tell him what you think, ask what he thinks, and discuss.
as for getting mean on drugs, where the hell does this come from? highschoolers are all mean. they're 15-18, cliquey, smartass, punks. drugs don't make people mean, mean people take drugs and are still mean, just like nice people can take drugs and be nice. i dunno about you but i don't see a lot of mean hippies around...
i don't mean to be getting real down on you rich, we just obviously really disagree aobut things in this area. disagreeing is fine though, i'm not looking to start a war here, and i don't want this to get personal, i just rather strongly believe in due process and civil liberties, and don't enjoy people having those encroached upon. even if a kid has drugs on him, a cop cannot search him and say what a hero he is for finding drugs if it was not based upon the law and protocol. it's illegal, and that's the way it should be. so, no hard feelings man, i just really dislike power misuse. if you were in town i'd take you out for a beer and we could dicuss this better. :cheers:
:guns: I say we settle this with a death match. One ring, 3 minutes, winner gets a cookie :cheers:
hey your right teenagers will be teenagers, they want to do what they want to do , so let them do whatever they want. there are drugs everywhere so lets just do nothing to stop people from destroying there lives and others.its funny they took away the parents right to discipline there kids and the kids went to hell, there little punks (not all of coarse) why? because they do not have the experiences that tell them that there are real consequences to the things they do in life, for ever action there is a reaction. nothing we do happens without effect. the kids will get over it but they will realize that selling and doing drugs is not accepted or ignored.and that they could get caught. look i am a gun owner and i hate the idea of anybody walking in my house and saying ok you got 10 min to put all you guns in this box and we will not arrest you for having them. but if i brought it into burger king and started pointing it at people i would exspect someone to do something about it. the fact is school is a public place and people pay good money (taxes) to have there kids taught there and they shouldn't have to worry about the kid coming home a crack head.
kids don't have all the right adults do, they can't drink they can't drive(till 16) they can't vote, yadda yada yadda.why? because they have not lived long enough to understand the negative consequences doing these things irresponsibly can cause. the fact is kids need to be protected from others and themselves till there expieriences in life teach them different. it sucks that the good kids have to go though this crap but thats what crime does to the innocent, they are loseing there freedom and there rights because drug dealers and punks want to take the easy and corrupt way though life. and untill they start wearing name tags that say "i sell drugs" then we all are at risk of losing out rights.
This Sunday. Two men enter. One man leaves.
The cage match of the century: CasiCUA vs. Zarathustra
Only on pay-or-view.
First, DRUGS SHOULD NOT BE ILLEGAL. Making them illegal makes good people criminals and it makes the real criminals rich. Drug laws are stupid laws and have never worked.
Second, NO ONE SHOULD USE DRUGS. They are bad for you.
Third, TOUGH ENFORCEMENT OF STUPID LAWS BREEDS CONTEMPT FOR THE LAW AND FEAR AND HATRED TOWARD THE ENFORCERS. We want to like and respect our LEOs, and stuff like this does not help.
There. Getting off my soap box now.
Oh, one more thing. Cell phones? puhleeez!
fmikex i believe i stated, or at least casi stated, that parents should be the ones to make sure their kids don't do drugs. don't shelter your kid (as i said), but talk to them about it and take charge yourself. if your kid is in highschool, and he's not smart enough to make a rational decision about drugs, you did a bad job of parenting. straight up, no pulled punches, that's how it is. if at 16+ your kid doesn't know your views on drugs, their views on drugs, and why you/they have those views, you messed up. 16 year old kids, while cocky and at sometimes bewildering, are not stupid. yeah, they're punks (almost all), but that doesn't mean they don't listen or think about things. i was a dumb punk in highschool, and i clearly knew what my parents thought about drugs, i knew my view on drugs, and i knew my friends did certain drugs. that didn't make me do them however. if i had been sheltered and never talked about it though; who's to say if i wouldn't have started smoking pot by the age of 15. it is nor for the cops to teach consequences, the only consequence they teach is that of discomfort (jail). they don't teach why. and they why of not doing drugs is the important one. i for one never have and never will accept someone's opinion on things as a concrete reason why i shouldn't do something. but, if they can back up with reason why i shouldn't, then i'll think about it. so for someone to say (like these cops), "if found with drugs, you're going to jail son." all that does is teach me that our current givernmental system has a problem with drugs, not that i shouldn't be doing them. get my point?
secondly, your arguement about burger king is recockulous. "if you were pointing it at people you would expect them to do something about it." well no kidding professor, of course you would; you're in the act of assault with a deadly weapon. that is way different, and by way different i mean way-farkin-different, than a kid having a joint in his bag enjoying his history lecture and planning to unwind a bit with his buddies after a hard day. if you can draw a connection to that i defy you to write it here.
and while true, that kids don't have all the rights of adults, they still have the right to not be unlawfully searched. and these innocent kids were. you're saying that crime takes away rights from the innocent is the most worthless crap i've ever heard. the constitution and bill of rights no where says (point it out to me differently if you care, right after your burger king analogy is finished), "these rights shall be bestowed upon all citizens, unless there is any crime taking place, then they shall be trampeled on and dismissed." where the hell is that clause? the innocent should never lose their rights, that's what due process means. that's what keeps our system working, rights should not be thrown out the window just because crime is taking place. you're right, they are being tossed away in situations like these, but you talk as if that's perfectly acceptable; and that in my opinion is the biggest travesty to be involved in this conversation or event. that you advocate the dismissal of rights because there are some criminals walking amongst us. not to get rich on my back or anything, or to say i'm agreeing with secret police future theory, but if you ever get in charge of this country i better throw on my tin foil hat, triple bolt my doors, hide in the attic, and wait for the ss to take my family away because some kid on the corner, who we don't know, was smoking some pot. (yeah, overbearing, but you get the point.)
oh man john and casi, i'm not normally a fighter... but if there's a cookie as a prize, i'm gonna lay some hurt down. :thumb:
can we say "odds and ends" kids.
there.
I knew you could do it.
jake no one was aware this was going to end up around 3 pages, and forgive me if i'm wrong, but i didn't know one article sitting on the page designed "... to discuss... any other topic you would like.." would take a little part of your soul from you. and in my defese, last time i checked the board 'odd's and ends' wasn't even here. so nay nay nay. :nana:
or nya nya nay, whatever it should be. (i'm out of the loop on spelling my 6th grade taunts). :roll:
well now zara first you act as if the only drug is pot. i have met teens that sell crack and you know what ?crack kills just like a gun.selling it to teens (who from the crack smoking teens i have met smoked it because of the pressure to fit in and be accepted) is putting there life in danger and others.drug dealers have gangs,gangs have wars and people die.that was my point about Burger King.people die because of drugs even kids shot because of a couple of drug dealers were having a shootout outside the kids home.
and from what i read most kids were not physically searched i'm not sure it said any were.in the high school here the kids walk through metal detectors and have to have see through back packs just to get into the school doors. and you know if this was a perfect world moms and dads all around the world would raise little angels that never did any wrong,but its not.i know moms and dads that have taught there kids how to steal from stores and hang out with them and there teenage friends and get drunk and high.i seen a whole family grandma included passing a joint around the living room.if it was left up to there moms and dads to do it there would be little done, some people are even accused of abuse for spanking there kids. sometimes mom and dads hands are tied. and how you raise your kids has nothing to do with there I.Q. some people are just dumb, some just don't care, others will do things just because there told they can't. or to get attention.
and if you don't think crime is taking away your freedom then try getting on an airplane,or just go shopping, i mean just look around at all the video cameras, security devices and road blocks. there are jobs that the bosses put in video cameras in the bathrooms to make sure the employees weren't stealing from them. you don't even have the freedom to pee in private. and its not the good people that cause this its the criminals
i mean if you think your "free" because this is the U.S.A. your nuts! try not paying your taxes for a few years try walking into a police station and sparking up a bowl. they will arrest you and smoke the pot themselves. your not really free to do what you want only free to do what they(the government) will let you do. i never said i wanted it to be this way it just is.its the lawbreakers that give the cops there power. you think things are going to keep going the way they are and your going to keep your rights? HA! not a chance.there are people everyday out there trying to change the constitution or make laws so you have to live life buy there viewpoint of what right and wrong.i don't want to have to live buy others standerds but i also don't want the world to go to sh#! because we pussyfooted around worried about the criminals rights. your right the innocent should not lose there rights but the fact is...they are! i don't like it i am sure you zara don't like it but it is happening. soon the U.S. goverment will know every thing you buy who you bought it from and how much you paid and what time you got it right down to the last second. its only a matter of time before money as you know it is gone and everthing will be done with cards and computers and your every financial move will be documented. get use to the idea because its in the works and its because of crime
Woweee.. I didn't read any of the last 2 pages... BUt this is what I think...
There were no drugs found on the GS twinners here and we are all are now debating goverenment... (OK OK I just scrolled down and happened to read a few words here and there) ... and you call your self bikers... Like Walther Matthau would have said in grumpier old men.... "putts".
Cool.
Srinath.
rock on srinath.
QuoteThere were no drugs found on the GS twinners here and we are all are now debating goverenment... (OK OK I just scrolled down and happened to read a few words here and there) ... and you call your self bikers... Like Walther Matthau would have said in grumpier old men.... "putts".
We're bikers, we're the badasses who are supposed to hate authority.... :lol:
ok, everyone say it with me now... WOOSAH! WOOSAH! :lol: