Anybody change lower end bearings? How big of a project is it?
Shane
306 N2O Pinto
haha sucker have fun. you will have to split the cases. which means pulling the moter out, and completely apart. it can be done in a weekend without air tools if you have all the gaskets to put it back together.
that wasnt nice ...
i have no idea.. but here is a free bump.
sounds like your average engine rebuild to me
:cheers:
ok, did this in 3 hours from first bolt out of the frame, to last bolt back in.
Your going to need left side and right side cover gaskets, Sprocket shaft seal's (there are 2) front trany shaft end plug seal, oil pan gasket and oil filter gasket. you will also need a sealant for engine case halves yamabond, or what i use 1104, its a semi drying sealant compound. you can do the job without poping the head off, PAY ATTENTION to cam chain guides, and the thrust bearings, wheel bearing grease or Vasaline work well take your time and double and triple check things as they come apart and as you put them back.
in truth, a Whole gasket kit can be had for 63$ shipping included.
https://www.partsnmoreonline.com/PNMSite/Gasket%20set%20SUZUKI%20GS500%20E%20(89-96).htm
with a valve compressing tool, you can pull your own valves out, change stem seals (included in kit above) Lap in your valves for a better seal, Hone the cyl alittle and then all you need is rings for pistons and bearings for crank/CB shaft and you just rebuilt your engine to DAMN NEAR ZERO miles. the trany is hardly ever hurt therefore seals would be about the only thing for it.
ive found a source for 75mm rings, was thinking of fileing the gap to shoe horn it into 74mm bore
Perfect. This is exactly what I was looking to hear. Thanks VERY much.
When you lap in the valves, does the valve clearance close up? (less gap between shim and cam).
How common is it to have to have the crank machined? The GS bottom end has the reputation of being stout, am I likely to get away just putting stock size bearings back in? I will obviously mic everything but what are the chances that I don't have to machine the crank?
Thanks!
Shane
306 N2O Pinto
If you recut the valve seats and regrind the valve face the shim MUST be changed. just laping the valve in (provided mateing surfaces arent boogered) wouldnt change noticably just provide a betterseal when valve closes. any crank can be reground, really have to do your homework on what the thicknesses of the Bearing shells are. ABCD. but your also dealing with I.D. of case Bores too. i havent seen any references to "UNDERSIZE" bearings, morelikely, replace the crank, or give to falicon along with First born Male child. If your crank is Fubared, i might have another in resonable shape for 40$ +SH
NOW, on the CB shaft just behind the gear, is a bearing suface, tis a sleeve really, that is only like 2$ from suzuki and brings the CB shaft back to spec of A, what im pondering, is having the other end of the CB shaft turned down to meet the sleece spec and bolting it inplace just like the gear side, then, NO CB shaft would need replacing, just the sleeve's for 2$ apop.
http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view.asp?mscssid=203JF3V43D0W8N0ARPW2P8SVWEV64VB0&schem_dept_id=725370&section_dept_id=1&section_dept_name=OEM+%28Stock+Parts%29&dept_type_id=2&model_dept_year=1989&model_dept_mfr=Suzuki&model_dept_id=703240&model_dept_name=GS500EK
Part #6 is what im refering too.
other then gaskets/seals mentioned in prev post, some tools that will help alot.
Inch lb/nm torque wrench
feeler gauges
Mic/vernier caliper (bought a digi one for 20$ ebay SAE & mm)
plastigauge
Impact Driver is VERY helpful/required
soft face mallet
and LONG STRONG Metric Allen wrenchs (bolts under oilfilter)* read book
everything else if memory serves, is run of the mill toolbox stuff for jap bikes
Note: using 5 old clutch plates 3 steel 2 fiber placed in an old basket on bench, i drilled 2 small holes 180 apart and placed nuts and bolts through them, this allowd me to lock the clutch basket hub to the basket for Nut removal, cheap, handy and fits many bikes. :)
Btw, im looking for stock a stock cyl and those little DAMN Orings that sitbetween head and cyl, 4 of them in all.
Ok, I have all the tools except the in/lbs torque wrench. I can grab one from work though, no biggie. Regarding the crank bearings. I saw the reference to ABCD in the manual but I don't get it. Can you explain what that means?
When I yank the crank (huh huh huh, beavis) do I mic the journals or replace with whatever bearing is already in there or???
I'm used to going to the parts store and saying "I need a set of 10 under crank bearings.....".
Thanks for the education and sorry for so many questions.
Shane
306 N2O Pinto
I'm guessing yo have a manual with the bearing charts.
On the lower case at the rear of the motor, are some little squares with either A or B stamped on them. On the crank, there are numbers and letters stamped on a counterweight. The chart will show which letter on the crank and which letter on the case go together. The rods have a #1 or 2 on them and the crank has a L1 or 2 and 1R or 2 on it
The bearings are color coded depending on the thickness.
As an example If the crank has a C on it and the case has a B on it.
You look at the chart an see that it calls for a yellow coded bearing.
The bearings have a color spot on the edge.
On thing to keep in mind. The rod bearings come in pairs (enough for 1 rod each package). Crank bearings only come with half a bearing in each box.
So you need to order 2 boxes for each crank journal. Total of 8 bearings (boxes) for the 4 crank journals. Another 4 bearings for the counterbalancer
They are the same as the crank bearings
Just take a notepad and write down what color bearing goes where. Then you can figure out how many of which color to order.
um, from what i have seen at Bike bandit, they come as a "Kit" now, what ever that means. it might be both halves are being boxed and sold.
many here went by color code on bearings, well, looking at part numbers there isnt any colors, and when i opend my engine, all colors were gone from bearings, BUT each one had part numbers.
for instance, crank rod bearing numbers are all 12164-01d00
the suffix on the end makes them differnt, 0A0
part number 12164-01D00-0A0 is green
12164-01D00-0B0 is black
0C0 is Brown
0D0 is Yellow
Mains, and CB bearing shells are diff number but are still coded with ABCD
on back of Case you will see 6 pads with a pattern like this
A A
AABA
this is showing CASE Bores,
on the crank will be ABAB this is corrisponding Crank sizes, a chart will cross reff the size you need, A+A = A or Green
A+B = B or Black etc
Other crank marks for Con rods are L12R these are crank pin Diam's #1-3
Rods will have 1 or 2 on them, and again, Cross reff on Rod chart L crank pin 1, L rod is 1 = Green on and on and on
Have Fun.
Hi all,
I´m rebuilding the botton end of my engine and changed all the bearing for bigger ones (the brown ones i think) and got my CB done to match its size....
Anyway, its everthing ok, but i havent build the engine yet cuz i have a little doubt.
When i hold both ends of the CB, and try to shake it, move it, the CB shows quite a bit of gap, is this normal? i can even hear a little noise of the CB hitting the bearing, its this normal?
thx
Quote from: Filipe_500 on February 13, 2006, 06:23:27 PMWhen i hold both ends of the CB, and try to shake it, move it, the CB shows quite a bit of gap, is this normal? i can even hear a little noise of the CB hitting the bearing, its this normal?
Measure the clearance with Plastigauge. It should be .0008" to .0017"
just one question,
when i move it, is it normal to feel the gap by hand? i mean, when i move my CB back and fowards direction, i can feel the CB hittin the bearing, it even makes an sound..... (my engine has no oil yet)... is it normal?
thx
Hi,
The shop measure it as 0.005cm, i looked up on the manual and it showed that the gap coud be from 0.003 up to 0.005 and the max gap is 0.008,
BUT, i~m not really trusthing the shop measurement, cuz, when i move the CB in a back and foward direction i can fell the gap and ever hear a little noise of the CB hitting the bearing, (i have no oil in the engine yet), is this normal??? cuz i thought an 0.005cm gap wouldnt be perceptible by hand!
this is really important and urgent, so people, if anyone can help, i would aprecciate!
thx
It is possible to move a journal slightly within a dry bearing, yes. A finite amount of clearance is required for lubricating oil to develop a load-bearing film.
You cannot assume that because you can "feel movement" that the measurement is incorrect. Always trust your measuring instruments, not what you feel or see. If you distrust the shop that measured it, I suggest you measure it yourself. A stick of Plastigauge costs less than a dollar, and the service manual should provide instruction on how to use it.
My service manual lists the new journal running clearance of .020mm to .44mm with a service limit of .080mm.
Your bearing is well within specification. If it shows no visible signs of damage it is fit for service. :thumb:
The question I have is;
Did you use any lubicant on the bearings when you assembled the lower end?? :dunno_white:
I use Redline assembly lube "librally" on all bearing surfaces. Just smear it on with your finger.
And yes there is some movement on the countebalancer.
Normally the CB is marked with an "A" for purposes of using the bearing chart. Even if you can't find the mark it's "A" 98 percent of the time.
If you used the stampings on the cases and the chart to find the correct bearing, you should be fine.
If the CB was ground down it will require measuring and calculating to figure out which bearing to use. If they ground too much off, just get another CB.
i've probably rebiult as many or more gs motors as anyone on this board was told buy my professional engine biulder to always use the loosest tolerance bearings (greens)have never had an issue with them (now i was racing and changed bearings on a rigoroius maintenence schedule)you can change the bearings without dissassembling the topend(hell i've done it in less than an hour-and that included pulling the motor!)
Quote from: onefastgs500 on February 15, 2006, 05:45:25 AMwas told buy my professional engine biulder to always use the loosest tolerance bearings (greens)have never had an issue with them (now i was racing
Your "engine builder" doesn't have the first clue about how hydrodynamic bearings operate.
In addition, racing applications are entirely different from most other applications in that longevity of the assembly comes second to performance. In fact, even safety comes second to performance. This is why it is important to differentiate between racing service and all other services.
Suzuki uses standard journal bearing tolerances on their countershaft. A good rule of thumb is that journal bearings 2" in diameter and smaller need .001" to .0015" diametrical clearance. Increased clearance causes the the oil film load to rise resulting in greater contact wear.
people, i made a mistake with names, actually, i was not talkin about the COUNTER BALANCE, i was talkin about the CRANK SHAFT!
when i hold on both end of the crankshaft (the one with the magnet and the other one) and try to move one side foward and the other side backwards, and them the opposite directions, , i can feel the gap and even hear an sound, is it normal? (it is dry at the moment)
Did you use the chart to figure out which bearing to use?
Are you possibly feeling side play and think it's front to back?
Open it up and put some assembly lube on it!!! NEVER assemble dry.
If you rotate things dry it will damage the bearings. It takes a few seconds to get oil flowing when you first start it.
I pull the plugs and crank the motor with minimal load to get the oil pressure up after a rebuild.
Ideally you would have a pressure tank to force oil throughout the motor before starting.
The only thing that gets very little oil is the cylinders. Wipe a thin layer of 5wt oil in the cylinders before assembly with a paper towel.
Put assembly lube on the cams too. Or at least pour some oil on them when they're installed.
yeah, used the chart!
and yes, i´m feeling the play, moving the crankshaft front and back, is it normal?
thx
There is clearence between the bearings and crankshaft. Therefore it will have movement.
I've never tried checking this with dry bearings. The assembly lube cushions things so it doesn't make noise
when I move the crank. But there is some play.
Just lube it up and torque the bolts. That should resolve any excess play.