GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

2002 GS500E

Today, it started sputtering so I switched to reserve but it wouldn't pick up and finally died.  At the side of the road, I put it on prime and sat for 20-30 seconds and then restarted.  It still wouldn't run cleanly.  I could get up to 10 or 15 mph but it would die if I let go of the throttle.

Luckily, I was near a station and sputtered in.  I could see maybe a 1/2 in. in the tank.  After I filled up to the bottom of the neck, it held 5.0000 gallons. I believe it holds 5.3 total?  

So what happened here?  Was .3 gallons the reserve?  Why wouldn't it pick up?  

I won't let this happen again.  

I hate to think about the news report if.......
"Today, an unidentified gentleman was found laying along I-405 with Buick tire marks up his back."

What we all want to know is: How many miles did you get from those 5.0000 gallons?   ;)

Seriously ... in my experience .3 gallons is the equivalent of fumes.  Definitely beyond REServe and down into PRIme territory.  Are you sure that the ON and RES lines haven't been switched?  And that you were using those post-2000 petcock positions correctly?  If I remember right, it's DOWN for ON, UP for REServe, and pointing REARward for PRIme.

According to the Spec Sheets from the Suzuki Past Showrooms (http://gsx.suzuki.com/~sucycles/pastshowrooms.htm), the tank capacities are as follows:

====
2000
====
17 liters (4.5 gallons)
15 liters (4.0 gallons) - CA model

====
2001
====
20 liters (5.3 gallons)

====
2002
====
20 liters (5.3 gallons)
19 liters (5.0 gallons) - CA model

Yep, definitely sounds like RES / ON swapped to me.

Swapped?  I hadn't thought of that one.  I'll check tomorrow.  I've never had the tank off but the original owner might?  He only put 528 mi. on it.

As for the miles, 261 mi.  That's about 52+?  

I usually get around 54 doing the commute.  I think I had some extra street riding miles on this tank.

Yes, it's down for on, up for res.

thanks

I thought it was up for prime... and forward for res... down is on of course.
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathI thought it was up for prime... and forward for res... down is on of course.

You got it right, but only for '89 - '00 models.  The '01+ models have a different petcock.

The GS has a notoriously crappy fuel select/reserve system. Remember the GS doesn't have even the vacumm operated fuel pump the SV does. Its fuel flow is entirely gravity fed, and it has to push both itself, carb float needle valves, and the petcock diaphram open if not enough pressure is being pulled on it or its defective.

The quickest fix is to refuel when ever you get to 150 miles on the trip meter, and/or make sur the bike in "on" not "reserve" or "prime".

Help please,

Clymer doesn't show the 2002 tank/petcock arrangement.  Can someone  tell me by looking at this cartoon if the hoses are connected properly?

Or possibly reversed?

(http://oldsport.home.comcast.net/tank.jpg)

2002

(Color coded for clarity only!)

Thanks,
OS

BTW is it really bad riding the GS on PRI...? I think I need to get my carbs cleaned cause whenever I out it on ON or RES the bike hesitates and then stalls and then dies on me and will not start until I put it on PRI. I am goin to ask one of me buds to cleans  the carbs for me soon (I hope) But for not I am running it on PRI. I tried the STP Carb cleaner crap you put in with the Gas and it didnt do squat for the bike ... you guys got any other suggestions or do y'all think that I should just get me carbs cleaned?

Nope you have them backwards.
The long front one is the "on" (its screen openings are higher) and the short rear one is the one for the reserve connector.

Quote from: JamesGNope you have them backwards.
The long front one is the "on" (its screen openings are higher) and the short rear one is the one for the reserve connector.

Son of a gun.  James, you're the man.   :cheers:

I doubt the tank has been off so I'll guess this was somone at the factory goofing with me. You think?

OS

Quote from: NomakBTW is it really bad riding the GS on PRI...?  ... you guys got any other suggestions or do y'all think that I should just get me carbs cleaned?

If it's running OK on prime, then I doubt there's a problem with the carbs.  I'd be looking into cleaning or replacing the petcock don't you think?

As for running on prime, it shouldn't  be a problem.  

When parked, it could be another story.  The floats in the carbs should cut the fuel but I've seen cases where they allow leakage that results in overflow out and onto the ground.  If I were to run on PRI, I'd probably switch back to 'ON' when I shut the thing off.  Am I right?

OS

It runs beautifully on PRI ... I havent seen any leakage but I normally put it back to ON when I park it for the night ... How difficult is it to replace the petcock? I wanna be sure its the petcock any way to check? BTW what is the idle RPM ? I keep mine just in between 1500 and 2000 RPM.

Thanks

Quote from: JamesGNope you have them backwards.
The long front one is the "on" (its screen openings are higher) and the short rear one is the one for the reserve connector.

OK ... now I'M confused.

On the pre-2001 models the front tube was the longer one AND had the screen opening lower in the tank ... AND ... connected to the RES fuel hose.  Did this really change with the 2001 model?

I always assumed that the RES tube opening was lower in the tank because both tubes are the same length, and the RES tube was simply positioned a little lower.  Am I wrong on that?

While I'm on the topic, I've read about folks whose RES and/or ON tubes have pulled right out of the tank-mounted petcock.  Does this mean that you can adjust the positions of the outlet tubes?  Or just that bad things sometimes happen to good people?  :dunno:

Quote from: NomakI wanna be sure its the petcock any way to check?

I understand you can open up the petcock and inspect the diaphragm inside for rips/tears/holes/gunk.

Quote from: NomakBTW what is the idle RPM ? I keep mine just in between 1500 and 2000 RPM.

The spec is 1200 RPM.  I try to keep mine centered between the 1000 mark and the 1500 mark.  (1200-1300)

Quote from: KerryI always assumed that the RES tube opening was lower in the tank because both tubes are the same length, and the RES tube was simply positioned a little lower.  Am I wrong on that?

I thought the same thing, until...

QuoteI've read about folks whose RES and/or ON tubes have pulled right out of the tank-mounted petcock.

...until I accidentally pulled-out the higher/shorter-looking tube... and it was a realy short tube (maybe an inch?).  The entire shorter tube was still shorter than the visible portion of the longer tube.  I had assumed that there were two copper tubes, each about 2.5 inches, running all the way up into the tank.  Instead, the tube that came out only went up about  1/4 inch into the tank petcock assembly.

So: no, swapping brass tubes would probably not switch anything.  The tubes are probably just different lengths so that the hose clamps don't interfere.

Quote from: Kerry
I always assumed that the RES tube opening was lower in the tank because both tubes are the same length, and the RES tube was simply positioned a little lower.  Am I wrong on that? :dunno:

Let's get a 3rd opinion?  

Actually, I think James might be correct. Looking in Clymer, I think it shows the short tube out of the tank as reserve and the longer one the ON.

OK, it's late but I'll take a second and scan the book.  

............ I'm back now.  

Here's the picture.

This is the classic diagram that gets everyone turned around.  (Same thing on BikeBandit (http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=714228).)  The tank petcock is shown rotated 180 degrees from its actual mounted position.  All I can figure is that they wanted to show the petcock shutoff valve rather than hide that detail.

The overall view angle for the diagram (from in front of and to the left of the bike) was probably selected to best show the details of the frame-mounted petcock, or perhaps only to be consistent with other diagrams.

Anyway, don't let the diagram fool you!  On an '89-'00 model, you can actually squat down with your head near the left spark plug and see a raised "R" stamped above the longer, front tube.  This picture was taken from in front of the petcock, and the shutoff valve definitely points toward the inside of the bike - the opposite of the orientation shown in the diagram.

(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1300_TankPetcock_REServeTubeLabeledWithRaisedR.jpg)

There is a similarly-raised "O" above the shorter tube, but it's much harder to see (from behind, through the narrow space between the tank - or side plastic - and the frame).

How about a fourth opinion now, to tie it all together?  (Or are we up to 5?)  The problem with the Clymer diagram at this point is this: "OK, so the petcock is rotated 180 degrees.  How about the hoses that attach to the tubes - are they shown in the correct position, or have they been rotated to match the petcock?"

Here is a brilliant diagram that someone submitted from http://www.gs500.de
(http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/www_gs500_de_HoseRouting.jpg)

The original diagram was labeled in German.  I don't know German, so my English relabeling could be flawed, right?  OK, but if you match up the photo above with the German diagram, I think you will agree that the "RES Fuel Hose" label is correct.

======================================

My only remaining question is whether (and in what way) the 2001+ models departed from this setup.  Anyone care to check their known-to-be-unmodified bike?

EDIT: Changed links from sisna.com to bbburma.net

Kerry, your translation of the diagram is fine.

Nomak: Your problem with the bike only running on PRI is not necessarily caused by the petcock. If you have a vacuum leak from the carburetor to the petcock that would have the same result. Check if the vacuum hose from the top of the left carb is routed properly to the petcock, doesn't have any cracks in it and is noct squeezed or clogged.

Wow. Thanks for all this, Kerry.

Ok, going back to my original drawing,
(http://oldsport.home.comcast.net/tank.jpg)

I haven't looked for the 'R' but lets assume that it's the same on the 2002, then the Res comes from the tank on the 'long' tube and connects to a fitting that enters the top of the petcock.  Your picture is different in that it shows Res coming out horizontal towards the rear.  

So I guess I still need to find out if the fitting coming from the top of the petcock is Res. (and the horizontal tube pointing to the rear is ON.)

HELLO - ARE THERE ANY OTHER 2001-2002 OWNERS WILLING TO TAKE A LOOK AT HOW YOUR HOSES ARE CONNECTED?  (sorry about the yelling).

You know, I think I might pull the tank this weekend just to see what's really under there.

Also Nomak, listen to MarkusN. He's correct.  Check that vacuum hose to the petcock to make sure it's attached and that there aren't any air leaks in it before you start worring about taking it apart.

OK!

OS

Quote from: oldsportSo I guess I still need to find out if the fitting coming from the top of the petcock is Res. (and the horizontal tube pointing to the rear is ON.)

I guess I'm just slow on the uptake sometimes.  Even if I can't trust BikeBandit to tell me which tube on the tank-mounted petcock is the REServe tube, they WILL tell me whch hoses are for ON vs RES!

Take a look at the BikeBandit: 2002 Suzuki GS500K2 Fuel chicken diagram.  Item #5 is the ON hose, and it connects to "the fitting coming from the top of the petcock".  Item #6 is the REServe hose, and it connects to "the horizontal tube pointing to the rear".

Now all you need to know for sure is: which tube on the tank-mounted petcock is which?

I'll take a look tonight when i get off work (2002 gs)

Quote from: KerryTake a look at the BikeBandit: 2002 Suzuki GS500K2 Fuel chicken diagram.  Item #5 is the ON hose, and it connects to "the fitting coming from the top of the petcock".  Item #6 is the REServe hose, and it connects to "the horizontal tube pointing to the rear".

Now all you need to know for sure is: which tube on the tank-mounted petcock is which?

Kerry, You're anything but slow on th UT.  

Actually, I'm always seeing bike bandit mentioned here but never bothered to actually take a look.   I guess I'm the one's who's slow.

We'll, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty well convinced that they ARE reversed.  One way to find out is to swap the hoses and then ride until........  Right now, I'm up to 160 mi. so that could happen tomorrow or Saturday if it doesn't rain.  

Thinking about it, there's a nice 4-5 mi. loop around my neighborhood. I could wait until it's up to 230 mi or so and then with cell in hand (to call my wife to come find me with a gas can), start doing laps and see what happens.  Then I'll report back.

I even have a picture of the loop. I live in the red dot in the middle.

Going the "personal experience" route is a fine idea, but I just thought of another method that should be faster, cheaper, more convenient, and just as effective.

Assuming that you have a length of fuel hose and an empty gas can, that is.

But before reading on, try the "squat-down-beside-the-left-spark-plug-and-look-for-an-R-or-O-stamped-into-the-tank-mounted-petcock" trick.  If you see an R or an O, you're DONE!  (With the diagnostic portion, anyway.)

If the petcock isn't marked, here's the "exhaustive" process:

* Make sure your gas can will hold as much fuel as you have left in the tank!
* Use your key to remove the seat.
* Remove the 2 fuel tank mounting bolts.
* Lift the rear of the tank until you can get a long flathead screwdriver to the shutoff valve.  (I prop the back of the tank up with a short 2x4 laid across the frame.)  Turn the slot in the shutoff valve in either direction until it's horizontal (OFF).

* Pull the stock fuel hose from the short tube and push on the length of extra fuel hose in its place.
* Put the other end of the extra fuel hose into the empty gas can.
* Use the screwdriver to turn the shutoff valve back ON (slot vertical).
* Let the fuel drain from the tank to the can until it stops flowing.

* Turn the shutoff valve to a horizontal (OFF) position again.
* Pull the extra fuel hose off of the short tube and replace the stock hose.
* Pull the stock fuel hose from the long tube and push the extra fuel hose on in its place.
* Turn the shutoff valve back ON (slot vertical).

IF FUEL FLOWS INTO THE GAS CAN AT A REASONABLE RATE, THE LONG TUBE IS THE "RES"ERVE OUTLET.  IF NOT, IT'S PROBABLY THE "ON" OUTLET.

====================================

Having typed all of that out, you could take a BIG shortcut if you don't mind spilling a little gasoline:

* You should be able to disconnect the hoses from the fuel tank outlet tubes without taking ANYTHING (seat, tank) off the bike.
* Start with the short tube again.
* Holding the extra fuel hose at the ready, pull the stock hose off of the tube and quickly push the extra hose on before too much fuel spills out.
* When the fuel stops flowing, replace the stock hose on the short tube.
* Repeat the previous 2 steps with the long fuel outlet tube.
* Check the ALL CAPS diagnostic above.

====================================

I can even think of an improvement on THIS method, if the fuel level is low in the tank and you have a "hefty" friend or a handy non-marking wall:

* Before pulling hoses off of the outlet tubes, tilt the bike to the right.  Hopefully this will prevent any spillage.
* Once the extra fuel hose is securely connected, tilt the bike upright again to test the fuel flow.  (Allow for sloshing in the tank.  It may fool you into thinking you have good -- albeit intermittent -- fuel flow when you wouldn't have ANY if the fuel were motionless in the tank.)

====================================

Have I kicked this horse to death yet?  :?

Let us know what you find out!!  :thumb:

Quote from: KerryGoing the "personal experience" route is a fine idea, but I just thought of another method that should be faster, cheaper, more convenient, and just as effective.

Hi,

I hope my wife doesn't read this!  I have her convinced that I need to go out for a couple hours tomorrow for a ride. Alone.

Seriously, thanks. I'll probably try your measurement method. It rained today and I think it's planned for Saturday too. I need to make the effort to see what's under the tank anyway.  Also, it's time to check the valve clearances. I might do that at the same time.

I'll let you know what I find.

Kerry and others,

Test results:

Determining which tube exiting the bottom of the gas tank is 'RESERVE'  and which is 'ON'

The short version:

On the center-stand, with the tank in it's nomal position, gas lid open;

I took the hose attached to the LONG tube coming out of the tank that has the (R) next to it, removed it from the frame petcock and began draining into a gas can.

When it stopped flowing, I then tested the hose coming from the SHORT pipe. It flowed at a rate similar to how the first hose had flowed before it stopped flowing.

Verdict, on a 2002 GS500E with my exact VIN, the LONG tube coming out of the tank is the 'ON' and the SHORT tube is 'RESERVE'.  

Now help me, what was my question again?

I guess mine was hooked up right all along?  The question remains, why wouldn't it pick up gas when I put it on reserve and even pri last week?

And JamesG wins the rubber cigar!

That was nice of them to put that little R next to the ON tube.  

Bad pun: Maybe they intended to mark an 'L' for LONG?  Don't the Japanese tend to substitute L's with R's?  Lotus, Rotus etc.

OS

Don't laugh when you read this, but are you SURE the tank shutoff valve is FULLY OPEN? I was having fuel starvation problems on my (used) 2001 GS, and I finally decided to take everything apart and find the freakin' problem. It seemed to run best in prime, almost as good in RES, and not very well ON. This was only at highways sppeds, no problems just buzzing around the local neighborhood.

As soon as I lifted the back of the tank, I saw that the fuel valve was cranked about 1/3 on. This happened the last time I removed the tank, I just failed to get the thing completely turned open. So I opened it up, took a ride, problem solved. Now I am consistently getting about 70 mpg and the bike runs fine.

Quote from: oldsportI took the hose attached to the LONG tube coming out of the tank that has the (R) next to it, removed it from the frame petcock and began draining into a gas can.

When it stopped flowing, I then tested the hose coming from the SHORT pipe. It flowed at a rate similar to how the first hose had flowed before it stopped flowing.

Verdict, on a 2002 GS500E with my exact VIN, the LONG tube coming out of the tank is the 'ON' and the SHORT tube is 'RESERVE'.  

[...]

That was nice of them to put that little R next to the ON tube.

Some comments & questions:

* This is the first time that you mentioned the letter "R" on the 2002 tank-mounted petcock.  If it's stamped on there, I would trust that more than my "flow method".  (Is there an "O" stamped above the shorter tube?)

* Since the short (ON?) tube flows longer than the long one, I suspect that the in-tank screen for the long (RES?) tube is somehow gunked up and not allowing fuel to flow when it should.

? Did you let the fuel flow from both tubes until neither one would allow more fuel out?  I would be curious about how much fuel was left in the tank at this point.  (If ON flowed until it was done, and RES didn't even flow THAT long because of gunk, there should still be a gallon or more in the tank.)  Do you have a length of tubing lying around that's long enough to let you siphon the remains of the tank into a gas can?  If you do, I would siphon until you can't get any more out, then 1) Record how much extra fuel you got out, and 2) Pull the tank-mounted petcock and inspect / clean / test it.

Well, I let the long tube flow until it completely stopped.  I took out over a gallon.

At that point, looking in the tank, it had several inches.  Far more than it had the day I ran out. That day, I could see the bottom of the tank in the middle and the gas was more around the edges.

I then switched over to the short tube and it flowed at a high rate for several minutes or so until I got bored and shut it off thinking that I had the answer.  I'd say I had 3/4 to a gallon at that point in my can.

Long is ON and short is Res.

Yes, the R was next to the Long tube.  I didn't look for the O next to the short tube.  

Someone else needs to try this to verify it.

OK, call me "slow on the uptake" again.  Why do I just assume that the fuel tank-mounted petcock on your 2002 is different from the one on my 1999?  :x

Here are the results from BikeBandit (http://www.bikebandit.com):

Petcock assemblies on my 1999 (http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view.asp?schem_dept_id=714227&section_dept_id=1&section_dept_name=OEM+%28Stock+Parts%29&dept_type_id=2&model_dept_year=1999&model_dept_mfr=Suzuki&model_dept_id=703284&model_dept_name=GS500EX)
BikeBandit Part number (for item 9 on the diagram) is 499271-001.

Petcock assemblies on your 2002 (http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view.asp?schem_dept_id=714229&section_dept_id=1&section_dept_name=OEM+%28Stock+Parts%29&dept_type_id=2&model_dept_year=2002&model_dept_mfr=Suzuki&model_dept_id=703278&model_dept_name=GS500K2)
BikeBandit Part number (for item 8 on the diagram) is 499271-001.

It's the same part!  The long tube has GOT to be the REServe outlet.  The fact that it's labeled with an "R" clinches it (for me, anyway).

So, if you look at the 2002 BikeBandit diagram above, the hose labeled with a "5" should connect to the longer outlet tube.  Judging from your last post on page 2 of this thread, your hoses WERE hooked up correctly all along.  (Is that right, or did I get turned around somewhere?)

If the hoses WERE correct all this time, then there must be a problem internal to one petcock or the other (or both).  And since the ON outlet flows longer than the RES outlet on the tank-mounted petcock, my money is on that one.  "Clean that screen!"  :thumb:

Hi  :lol:

1. My bike is hooked up just as bikebandit shows for the 2002.  

2. The R is next to the long tube which is the ON - it stopped flowing first.  The short tube is Reserve.  It flowed after the long one stopped.

3. I DON'T think it's a clogged screen that caused me to run out of gas.
Why? because:
a. When I turned on PRI, the bike would still not run.
b. I looked in the tank. There was almost no gas. It held 5.000 gallons.

The behavior as I saw it:  Riding with the petcock set 'ON', gas was allowed to pass through it as if it was on 'RES'.  This resulted in there not being any available when I switched to RES. The sucker was just plain 'out of gas'.

My guess is that maybe it leaks internally when the engine is running and there's vacuum applied?  

Either that or I can't tell the difference between, long, short, ON, RES and PRI because my brain has rotted away.

OS

One "last gasp" and then I'll give up ... for now.  ;)

Quote from: oldsport1. My bike is hooked up just as bikebandit shows for the 2002.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this statement, because the BikeBandit diagram does not SHOW the hoses hooked up to the tank-mounted petcock.  And since the petcock is rotated 180 degrees in the diagram (to show the shutoff valve on the back side) you have to be wary about the depiction of the hose positions.  The surest method seems to be to go by:

1) The hose labels on the BikeBandit page (#5 = ON hose, #6 = RES hose)
2) The letters stamped onto the tank-mounted petcock (short tube = "O", long tube = "R")
3) The connections shown to the frame-mounted petcock on the other end of each hose.  (Hose #5 connects to the backward-pointing inlet on top, hose #6 to the downward-facing tube on the rear.)

Note: Hose #5 is labeled as the ON hose ... which means that I said things backwards in my last post.  :oops:  It's hose #6 (the RES hose) that should be hooked to the longer brass tube from the tank-mounted petcock (labeled with an "R"), which should be in front of of the shorter tube when the petcock is mounted correctly.

As for why the shorter tube flowed fuel after the longer tube stopped ... that one still stumps me.  I'll have to try that on my '99 and make sure to switch back and forth until I get NO fuel out.  Perhaps the flow is different when the engine is not running compared to when it is...?

PS - One final wrench to throw into the works.  Maybe the hoses ARE labeled incorrectly on the BikeBandit diagram.   :o  Why would the shorter hose cost more than the longer hose with an extra bend in it?

:x  Let the Brain Rot begin!!  :x

Last Desperate Plea from the Cliffs of Insanity ("Incontheevable!"):  Can someone with an unaltered 2002 PLEASE trace their hoses and tell us how they're hooked up?

By looking at the diagram in the clymer's manual I also had my on hose on the shorter one, and my res hose on the longer one.
My tank did not have much gas in it at the time being I am doing a rebuild, I put the peetcock on reserve and could not get it to start. so I switched them and that did the trick, I think there are several different parts made, but the same part number is used for replacement

Quote from: EvilScoobyBy looking at the diagram in the clymer's manual I also had my on hose on the shorter one, and my res hose on the longer one.
My tank did not have much gas in it at the time being I am doing a rebuild, I put the peetcock on reserve and could not get it to start. so I switched them and that did the trick, I think there are several different parts made, but the same part number is used for replacement

So you are supporting my claim that the long tube (marked R) is the ON and the 'short' tube is Res?  Can I rest my case?

See Kerry, I'm not the only one that's of this opinion who came to it through practicle experience. I know it would be nice if the R marking corresponded to the Reserve tube etc. but at least in these 2 situations, it doesn't seem to.  (Unless EvilSCooby is Succumbing to  :x  evil brain rot  :x too?)

I think it's time for you to get a piece of hose and a gas can and let the testing begin.  You'll feel better once you've proven it to yourself one way or another.  Sort of restores faith in the order of the universe or something close to that?

For now, I'm sticking with the Long for ON and Short for RES

:lol:

Sigh.

Well, don't get me wrong - empirical evidence beats theory (and especially documentation) every time!

It's like you hinted at: I just like it when the real world actually matches what those who (are supposed to) know SAY....

I'll drain the tank tonight (if I get the chance) and let you know how it shakes out on the '99.

Quote from: KerryOne "last gasp" and then I'll give up ... for now.  ;)

Quote from: oldsport1. My bike is hooked up just as bikebandit shows for the 2002.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this statement, because the BikeBandit diagram does not SHOW the hoses hooked up to the tank-mounted petcock.  And since the petcock is rotated 180 degrees in the diagram (to show the shutoff valve on the back side) you have to be wary about the depiction of the hose positions.  The surest method seems to be to go by:

1) The hose labels on the BikeBandit page (#5 = ON hose, #6 = RES hose)
2) The letters stamped onto the tank-mounted petcock (short tube = "O", long tube = "R")
3) The connections shown to the frame-mounted petcock on the other end of each hose.  (Hose #5 connects to the backward-pointing inlet on top, hose #6 to the downward-facing tube on the rear.)

Note: Hose #5 is labeled as the ON hose ... which means that I said things backwards in my last post.  :oops:  It's hose #6 (the RES hose) that should be hooked to the longer brass tube from the tank-mounted petcock (labeled with an "R"), which should be in front of of the shorter tube when the petcock is mounted correctly.

As for why the shorter tube flowed fuel after the longer tube stopped ... that one still stumps me.  I'll have to try that on my '99 and make sure to switch back and forth until I get NO fuel out.  Perhaps the flow is different when the engine is not running compared to when it is...?

PS - One final wrench to throw into the works.  Maybe the hoses ARE labeled incorrectly on the BikeBandit diagram.   :o  Why would the shorter hose cost more than the longer hose with an extra bend in it?

:x  Let the Brain Rot begin!!  :x

Last Desperate Plea from the Cliffs of Insanity ("Incontheevable!"):  Can someone with an unaltered 2002 PLEASE trace their hoses and tell us how they're hooked up?

Another way to verify it is to do what I did and drain the fuel from the tank?  Watch out,   :x  Brains R Rotting!!  :x

My claim that mine is like the the BikeBandit diagram  picture is because I had determined, by testing that you designed, that the short tube is RES and the LONG one ON.  

In the picture, if you draw a 'dotted line' (using your minds-eye), Hose #5 (ON) would seem to go to the longer tube (which is ON) and hose #6 would go to the short tube which is RES on my bike.

Do I agree that the drawing is 'goofy' ?  Yes.  If it were a drawing of a person, you would say the body is facing one way and the head another.   :thumb:   Do I agree that it seems odd that they would mark an R next to ON?  yes!  If you want odd, check out Particle Entanglement  Now that's weird!

( :roll: "Kerry------, this is your conscience speaking, get a piece of hose and a can and test it yourself".  :roll: )

:?

Great, I just did my first shim job...  Thought I could keep which hose went were straigt in my head.  Got all my shims within spec, put the gas tank back on and I had to see this thread  :o

Now I'm not sure I got it right :x

I have a 90' and I was pretty damn sure the long tube marked with the R was going to my reserve...  Crap, I now have this feeling I'm going to be stuck without a reserve.

:dunno:

On the '90 it's definitely front to back, back to front.

Well, My bike is still apart with a few gallons in the tank. I will do the test this Saturday, My bike is a 95, I will post my findings that night

:x I am not that evil  :thumb:

Quote from: oldsport( :roll: "Kerry------, this is your conscience speaking, get a piece of hose and a can and test it yourself".  :roll: )

I cheated.

Well, I didn't exactly cheat, but I did use a different testing method to positively identify the RES and ON outlet tubes on my fuel tank-mounted petcock.

After turning the slot in the under-tank shutoff valve to a horizontal (OFF) position, I detached the input hoses from the frame-mounted petcock and set up a 2-gas-can, simultaneous-drain arrangement.  Each can holds 1.25 gallons:


This closer view helps to show that the hose to the left-hand can is attached to the LONGER outlet (the one towards the fornt of the bike), and the hose to the right-hand can is attached to the SHORTER outlet.


At this point I turned the under-tank shutoff valve back ON, and let 'er rip!  Fuel flowed through both hoses, but the flow from the left hose was definitely stronger than from the right hose.  This is actually a good pre-indication that the left hose is the RES hose, since the RES outlet is lower in the tank than the ON outlet.  The weight of an additional inch (or so) of fuel would mean more pressure at the lower outlet.

Anyway, the right hose went "bubbly" and finally stopped flowing.  The left hose was still full of fuel for another 30-45 seconds.


In fact, the left-hand gas can filled up before the left hose stopped flowing.  I had to transfer the hose to the right-hand gas can (which was maybe 1/3 full) to finish draining the tank.  Here the left hose is finally going "bubbly".


VERDICT:  On my '99 GS500E, the LONGER outlet tube on the tank-mounted petcock (which is stamped "R") is definitely the RES outlet.  The shorter tube (stamped "O") is definitely the ON outlet.

Useful observation for future out-of-gas situations:
While trying to drain the tank, I found that tilting the tank forward and back worked at least as well as tilting it from side to side.

Since the tank was empty, I attempted to take a picture of the tank-mounted petcock from inside the tank.  As a bonus, I got a view of the overflow drain tube as well.  (This picture was taken from the right side of the bike.  It was one of those times that make me wish my flash was somehow mounted INSIDE the camera lens, rather than off to one side....)


EDIT: Changed links from sisna.com to bbburma.net

I had a sneaking feeling that your results would turn out like this.

When I did it, I was assuming that the long tube was RES just as you say so I figured that I'd let it drain first so that I wouldn't have to worry so much about switching to the short tube and spilling gas.   I then drained from the short tube and gas began to flow again and continued to for several minutes.  

Did you make sure that your tank was level and was never disturbed during the test?  (Just kidding, trying to be difficult).

So, either the insides of the valve are interchangeable and little attention was paid by those that made it as to how it went together OR there is some other property that's not being addressed that caused the conflicting results.  

At this point, I think it's important that we both test again 3 times and average our results. (Kidding again).

Actually, I don't have a second can but if I can come across one, I'll test again using your method.  Or maybe I'll buy the Triumph Bonneville T100 I've got my eye on?

OT: Also, did you see my post on the DIY Tappet Compressor?  You had mentioned at one point that it would be easy to make one.  Could you elaborate?  While I had the tank off, I checked the valves and they were all tight.  I have a .0378mm gauge that wouldn't fit.  I've looked around locally for a .03 but haven't found one.  I saw a MAC Tool truck at a garage this morning and stopped and asked him.  He looked through his books and didn't find one either.  

BTW, Our posts remind me the story Arlo Guthrie's told about Alice's Restaurant:
".......They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us.  Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to mention the aerial photography."

OS

Quote from: oldsportYou had mentioned at one point that it would be easy to make [a DIY Tappet Compressor]. Could you elaborate?

You're probably referring to what I said in the old DIY Tappet Decompressor? Is there anything like that.. thread:

Quote from: KerryNow that I've used my Motion Pro tool a couple times, I could probably grind out the DIY version without too much trouble.

Chalk that statement up to being overzealous, or overly optimistic.  I still haven't tried such a grinding project, so I really couldn't say how easy or hard it would end up being.  :oops:

Meanwhile, by now you've seen JLKasper's suggestion for a DIY tappet compressor made from a 5/8" open end wrench.  Did that make sense, and does it sound do-able given the tools available to you?

Quote from: oldsportBTW, Our posts remind me the story Arlo Guthrie's told about Alice's Restaurant

Yeah!  It's been years since I heard that story, but I can still hear him saying "color glllllOSSY pictures...".

Are you saying that I ...
...take too many pictures?   ;)
...pile up too much evidence?  :roll:
...push you into doing tests that you don't have time for?  :lol:

Well, I appreciate your game-ness.  On to the end of this fact-finding mission!  It's for the good of all late-model GS owners!  :thumb:

Quote from: Kerry

Quote from: oldsportYou had mentioned at one point that it would be easy to make [a DIY Tappet Compressor]. Could you elaborate?

Meanwhile, by now you've seen JLKasper's suggestion for a DIY tappet compressor made from a 5/8" open end wrench.  Did that make sense, and does it sound do-able given the tools available to you?

I DID see mr. JLKasper's suggestion and I have plenty of old open-ends waiting to be modified on my grinder.

Unfortunately, I haven't a clue about what he was describing and was a little embarassed to ask. It took me a long time just to realize how the tool you own worked.  I kept trying to imagine turning a 5/8 wrench into that and it wasn't working.  I thought maybe you'd jump in with a 1/2 dozen glossssyyy photos?  See, we know how you work, Kerry.

Could someone post a simple drawing of what that might look like?  :)

OS

I think the "spine" on the Motion Pro tool may confuse the issue.  Imagine that the entire tool were a single thickness, and it should look more like an open-end wrench with one side broken off.

Around the "perimeter" of most open end wrenches, the edge is more like a donut than like a right-cylinder.  In other words, it's rounded in _2_ directions.  JLKasper says that you should grind off the donut-ness so you will have a "flat" surface to ride on the edge of the shim bucket.  Otherwise it will tend to slip off to the side, and the bucket will pop back up.

The biggest trick seems to be grinding a nice curve for the increasing thickness.

Does this help any?

Quote from: KerryI think the "spine" on the Motion Pro tool may confuse the issue.  Imagine that the entire tool were a single thickness, and it should look more like an open-end wrench with one side broken off.

Ok, I think I can buy that.  But it seems that the diameter of the hook on the MP tool is much larger than the diameter of a wrench end.

QuoteAround the "perimeter" of most open end wrenches, the edge is more like a donut than like a right-cylinder.  In other words, it's rounded in _2_ directions.  JLKasper says that you should grind off the donut-ness so you will have a "flat" surface to ride on the edge of the shim bucket. Otherwise it will tend to slip off to the side, and the bucket will pop back up.

This is clear now. Remove the donut-ness.

QuoteThe biggest trick seems to be grinding a nice curve for the increasing thickness.{/quote]
If you're referring to the grinding to remove the "donutness" then I understand.

QuoteDoes this help any?

So
1. Break off a tang from one end of a 5/8" open end wrench. (Often, these are offset at an angle to the handle. I wonder if it makes a difference which one is removed?)

2. Grind to remove the donut-ness from the outside circumference of the remaining tang.

3. Be careful removing the donut-ness making sure the radius of the of the tang is kept smooth, gradual and increasing from the tip of the tang back to it's base at the handle.

Is that it?

I like donut-ness.  New word for the day.

Also, during lunch, I found a listing where Motion Pro is having a tool sale at the JC near my house on Saturday.  I may stop by for a look.  Unless I'm draining gas.

OS

By George, I think you've got it!  :thumb:

You will definitely want to retain the larger/longer tang of the wrench, for 2 reasons:

1) You will appreciate the extra angular clearance as you approach the camshaft from above, and

2) The extra length will give you more "oops room" as you experiment with the grind.  Like JLKasper said, you will want to grind the tip of the tang down so that the start of the curved "ramp" formed by the tang is fairly thin.

Hey, if/when you get this idea working ... I WANT PICTURES!

Just one more thing to verify.

Would this tool go 'in' from the center of the head or from the outsides?

Thanks

Whichever way it will fit!  :roll:

If I remember correctly, the Motion Pro tool worked best from the center of the head, for both the intake and exhaust valves.  Richard et al, if I'm remembering WRONG, please pipe up.

(NOW you see the real reason why I take so many pictures....   :x Where was I that day, anyway?  Where was the camera?  :x )

OK, verified by the drive until you run out of gas technique...

On my 90' GS500, the long tube with the "R" is the reserve line and the short tube with the "O" is the on.

I drove Kramer style until I ran out...  prayed as I switched over to reserve and she came back alive.

Good thing too,  :)   I woulda had about a 5 mile hike to the nearest gas station!

:cheers: