GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

I dropped my bike last week...and i finally got around to fixing the bike...

but the bike won't start...what should i check for?...i don't even hear the starter motor trying to run...lights are on...and gas is in tank...what problems might there be?

I would test or charge yoru battery, even though the lights come on it may not be enough for the starter

put your kickstand up?  :oops:

kickstand is up...
did all the usual check...

even battery is full...
what's wrong with it? :x

Don't shoot me, but ... engine kill switch on the right handlebar?  :roll:

ya...i tried everything...
do you think the kill switch is shot?

Quote from: Frostdo you think the kill switch is shot?

Probably not, but did the bike land on the right side?  I guess it's remotely possible....

If the bike landed on the left side, maybe the clutch lever safety switch broke.  You can check by removing these two screws and pulling the switch downward:


Otherwise, you may need to short out (or otherwise test) ALL of the safety switches for continuity.

EDIT: Changed link from sisna.com to bbburma.net

it landed on the right side...i checked wires and sorts...no obvious damage or loose bolts nuts...

still can't figure out whats wrong... :x

Did you wipe out the right side case good enough to damage te ignition trigger?

how do i check if i did damage the ignition?

I'd wait on the ignition trigger until you at least get the starter motor to turn.  If you get no sound or motion at all then there is an open circuit somewhere between the battery and the starter motor.

Your fuse is fine because you have lights.  Have you consulted a wiring diagram (http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_WiringDiagram_US_90-96.jpg) yet?

EDIT: Changed wiring diagram link from gs500e.co.uk to bbburma.net

i looked at the circuit diagram...sort of...as much as a i can understand and find on the bike...

but don't know how to check for problem...

Hmmm.  I won't be able to "talk you through" an example until later tonight at the soonest.  (I'm about to leave for home.)  But I'll be happy to do so when I can....

Meanwhile, see if you can find the starter relay on the bike and "short" the contacts (with a screwdriver) while you push the starter button.  (Did someone else already mention that?)

sorry for being ignorant...but what does it mean to 'short' the circuit??

i'm a complete mechanical idiot... :dunno:

No worries Frost -- I haven't forgotten about ya!  I spent 2 or 3 hours gathering info tonight, but I'm not prepared to "publish" yet.  I need to take some photos tomorrow, and scan a thing or two, and THEN I'll be ready to write.

Thanks to you, I'm finally gaining firsthand experience with the starter relay!  :thumb:

BTW, do you have a repair manual?  If so, which brand (Clymer? Haynes?) and which edition (covering which years)?  I'm just wondering if I need to do this all from scratch, or if I can refer to sections and pages and diagrams, etc.

WOW... :o ...kerry...you're the nicest person in the world...can't believe that someone would help me out like that...THANKS!!!! :)

i figure it had something to do with the starter relay after reading the other posts...but can't figure out how or what to test it...

i have the Clymer 1989-2002 GS manual...

THANKS again kerry...

My bad... I misread the post . I  thought the motor was turning.... I gotta stop working these 50+ hour weeks......

For lunch today I went out and basically followed the Clymer instructions on testing the starter relay.  But at the same time I took COLOR pictures.  If you don't mind, I'll talk about the starter relay in particular this time around, and get into the more general troubleshooting stuff later....

Here's what I did (following the instructions in the STARTER RELAY section of the ELECTRICAL SYSTEM chapter in the Clymer manual):

1) Put the bike on the centerstand and in NEUTRAL.  (You'll see why in a minute.)

2) Popped the seat and pulled the right side plastic piece.  The starter relay is in the center of the photo:
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1436_StarterRelay_Location.jpg)

3) Pulled the starter relay straight out from the frame.  I had to wiggle it back and forth a lot, but I didn't need any tools.  Can you see the horizontal slits on the top and bottom of the rubber housing in the first picture?  The relay assembly is mounted by pushing those slits over a pair of metal "tabs" attached to the frame.
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1437_StarterRelay_Pulled.jpg)

4) Pushed the red and black rubberized "boots" away from the main relay connections.
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1438_StarterRelay_ContactsExposed.jpg)

At this point I took a short (pun intended) detour from the Clymer instructions.  Various wiring diagrams and pictures told me that the only thing keeping the starter motor from turning even when the ignition is turned off (!) is the half-inch of space between those two bolts on the starter relay.  No safety switches, nothing else.  That means that if I were to "SHORT" the circuit by touching my screwdriver to both bolts at the same time....

Sure enough -- the starter motor turned the engine over!  The bike won't start because the ignition key is turned to OFF ... right?  :roll: And the rear wheel won't turn because the transmission is in NEUTRAL ... right?  :roll:   And it wouldn't matter anyway because the rear wheel is off the ground (because you put the bike on the centerstand) ... right?  :roll:.

OK, that was fun.  :)  Back to Clymer....


5) Disconnected the black wire from the forward bolt and connected an ohmmeter across the two bolts.  (Keep the black wire AWAY from the area while you do this.  Could be BAD for your meter to have it connected across the battery -- via the starter motor -- while it's in ohm-reading mode!)
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1439_StarterRelay_ContinuityTest_Closeup.jpg)

6) With the help of a friend:
* Turned on the ignition.
* Made sure the sidestand was up.
* Pulled in the clutch lever.
* Pushed the starter button.
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_1439_StarterRelay_ContinuityTest.jpg)

We couldn't do all that AND take the picture, so the reading on the meter is wrong.  It should show between 3.0 and 5.0 ohms.  If you get the "infinite resistance" reading shown in the photo while the starter button is depressed (and after hearing a "CLICK!" from the relay) then the starter relay is bad.  If you don't hear a "CLICK!" then you need to check some more wires and connections.

TIP #1:  Don't let the "CLICK!" from the relay freak you out (like it did me!).  That's the sound of the two bolts in the 3rd picture being connected together INSIDE the relay, and "shorting" the circuit like I did externally with my screwdriver.  (Which is why you disconnect the black wire, so the starter motor won't draw a bunch of current through your meter.)

Whew ... enough for now!  Try going through this procedure, and let us know what you find.

=============================================

TIP #2: If you don't have a cool multi-meter like in the pictures, you might consider dropping $10-$15 on a fairly simple one.  It will come in handy in the not-necessarily-distant future.  But if you're strapped for cash you could buy an even cheaper circuit tester like these tools from Harbor Freight:

• $2.99 Circuit Tester (http://www.harborfreight.com/6-12-volt-circuit-tester-4288.html)
• $6.99 Extra Long Circuit Tester (http://www.harborfreight.com/extra-long-circuit-tester-43700.html)

(Heck, my older brother MADE one of these in shop class about 30 years ago by drilling out the handle of an old screwdriver -- down to the metal shaft -- and then inserting a springloaded flashlight bulb with a wire soldered onto the metal "can" part.)

With one of these units you would do the final test a little differently:

• Attach the tester clip to the negative (-) battery terminal, or to a piece of (bare) metal attached to the frame.
• With the clutch lever in and the starter button depressed (and after the "CLICK!") touch the tip of the tester to the relay bolt that the black wire was originally attached to.  The light on the tester should light up, indicating a closed (current-conducting) circuit.

EDIT: Updated links to Harbor Freight items

Wow Kerry....you keep surprising me....

You are great.  :thumb:

THANKS!!!...i'm going to try it when i get home tonight...

While I'm at it....  If you add a power source to the simple testers described in my last post, you end up with a "continuity tester".  You use one of these just like an ohmmeter, only instead of a resistance reading you get a brightly-lit bulb or a dimly-lit bulb or a NOT-lit bulb.

I'm not sure about sources, but here are the ones that GB (Gardner Bender) makes.  They're the guys who made my multimeter (http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/100_0624_Multimeter_2.jpg), which I bought at ... WalMart I think, for about $13.

(http://www.bbburma.net/ScreenShots/GardnerBender_ContinuityTesters.jpg)

I found these on page 7 of their Full Line Catalog (http://www.gardnerbender.com/Products/prod_list/pdf/01GB_TESTERS.pdf).

EDIT: Changed links from sisna.com to bbburma.net

First, Kerry your posts are incredibly helpful!  Thanks!  

Second, I'm troubleshooting a starting problem myself (Starting Problem post), and here is some stuff that's helped me:
- Clymer page 45 has decent wont-start troubleshooting procedure.  If you know your bike runs once started you can skip some steps (check to see if bike runs by push starting or screwdriver method).  
- Clymers test procedure refers to info on pages 271-273, 280-281, 290 and 422.
- Pages 282-283 are helpful for dissasembling headlamp in order to test starter switch.  (Is there an easier place to test this switch?).
- Despite what Clymer says, you can test the neutral switch (at the diode).
- I think there is a typo on page 272.  Item 6 should read "once again connect an ohmmeter to between the no. 1 and no. 2 terminals..."
- Kerry's picture of the clutch switch is also very helpful for dunces like me who didnt even think to look for switch-wiring connectors at the clutch lever.

Thanks for the extra info, Tony!

I never even looked for a Starter Troubleshooting section.... :oops:

(Frost, the info Tony describes may be on different pages in your later Clymer manual.)

i did the screwdriver shorthing out the relay last night...it was hard to do since my left hand is in a cast...so hopefully i did it the right way...i doubt it though...so gotta wait till my friend is free so we can check it out...

anyways...i tried...but there was no clicking sound...so does this mean that the starter relay is broken? how much is it to replace?

also...how much does the brake master cylinder usually cost??

thanks kerry and others...really really appreciate it :cheers:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you short the starter relay terminals and nothing happens (assuming all wiring is unmodified, connections are good, etc) that either your battery is dead or your starter motor is dead.  The idea of creating this short is to provide power from the battery to the starter motor.

Tony is right.  When you "shorted" those terminals with the screwdriver you should have completed a circuit consisting of the following:

* From the + terminal of the battery through the RED wire to the red-hooded terminal on the starter relay.
* From the red-hooded terminal, through the screwdriver, to the black-hooded terminal.
* From the black-hooded terminal, through the BLACK wire, to the starter motor.
* Through the windings inside the starter motor.
* Through the ground connection (formed by the bolts securing the starter motor) to the frame.
* Through the frame to the BLACK ground wire:
(http://www.bbburma.net/MiscFotos/DSCF2440_640x480.jpg)
* Finally, through the ground wire to the "-" terminal of the battery.

In other words, the starter relay proper is not being tested here, because it has been bypassed.  I think it's time to work your way through the Starter Troubleshooting section in Chapter 2: TROUBLESHOOTING.  One step at a time....

Keep coming back!  Youre going to push me into "publishing" my info (about tracing through a circuit) yet!

EDIT: Changed link from sisna.com to bbburma.net