Just finished the first service. The bike went in and came out of the service with a recurring noise that sounds like a metallic, "clunk-clunk". It occurs every second or so when the engine is running. The dealer stated that "We have another owner with the same noise. Suzuki so far hasn't come up with a reason for it." Any ideas? The bike runs fine and is a hoot to ride.
Gene
This is probably not what you're after but I think it sounds like one of those noises that will drive you mad and cost you bulk dollars to diagnose and perhaps still not fix. Alternatively you can accept that your bike is running well despite the noise, call it part of the character and charm, and ignore it. If your mechanic isn't concerned about it from a safety or longevity point of view, I'd ignore it.
Michael,
There is the sound of experience in your reply. I'm just curious to see if other "F" riders have the same observations! Thanks.
:cheers:
Gene
i have a new gs500f also, i have been told and read that it was the cam chain tensioner, mine used to do it, but haven't noticed it lately, i have 4500 miles on her already, i think it stopped around 2500.
Quote from: tdan553527i have a new gs500f also, i have been told and read that it was the cam chain tensioner, mine used to do it, but haven't noticed it lately, i have 4500 miles on her already, i think it stopped around 2500.
If you listen real hard can you still hear it? Is it possible you don't notice it because you've gotten used to it? Sometimes these noises go away during/after breakin as things loosen up, only to be replaced by other noises as things loosen up. Euther way, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I had the same noise on my new f and I asked the service guy at the dealer and he said suzuki knew about the noise and decided that it was just one of those noises it would make and not to worry about it.
Quote from: CaravanThe bike [has] a recurring noise that sounds like a metallic, "clunk-clunk". It occurs every second or so when the engine is running.
As far as you can tell, does this only happen at idle? It sounds like the noise that we have chalked up to "camshaft sideplay".
I have owned two GS500Es. One of them made an "intermittent soft clunk" noise like you describe, and the other one didn't. I eventually checked the valve clearances on both bikes (service due every 4,000 miles). On the bike that made the noise, I could manually move one of the 2 camshafts from side-to-side by a millimeter or so. On the "quiet bike" I couldn't detect any such sideplay.
OK, so maybe this didn't constitute a definitive diagnosis. But it satisfied me that the sideplay was the cause of the noise, and that it was nothing to worry about. If / when you eventually do your own valve clearance check (we can help!) then you can try this test for your peace of mind.
Yup, mine does it too. It almost sounds like knocking. I've had the noise since about 500 miles, the dealer couldn't find anything wrong at the 600 mile service.
Mine does it when hot, and after you've come to a stop. Doesn't do it at all with any amount of throttle, only when the rpm's return to idle and only for about 2 seconds, then goes away. No rpm drop, no change in the engine sounds otherwise, just a cloppa-clunk noise at a rate of about 3 per second for 2 or three seconds.
It never happened all the time, but I have found a way to decrease the occurances. I bumped up my idle speed from a lowish 1300rpm to just a hair over 1500rpm and it happens less frequently. Used to do the noise about 70% of the time I'd come to a stop, now it does it about 30% of the time. I'll grab my digital recorder and try to get it for a group diagnosis sometime.
Thank you all for the useful responses. I intend to put as many miles on it as I can and see what happens. Now....in a totally unrelated topic, the bike appears to be rusting before my very eyes. (It is the rainy season in Florida. ) It is outside and covered with a Dowco cover. Any suggestions to keep the rust :x at bay?
Thanks for the help and the positive attitudes!
Gene
Quote from: PAC. I've had the noise since about 500 miles, the dealer couldn't find anything wrong at the 600 mile service.
I was suppose to service the dang thing? Geez...oops...it's alright, I'm still sitting around 700 miles...hee hee...
I haven't noticed this sound unless it's the same sound I had with my GZ250 and this one. I figured clunking was normal and like any new auto/bike - breaking in takes a long time. I don't think a bike is truly worked it's kinks out until at least 5000, and a car, upwards to 15 or 20K.
Btw, what does the 600 mile service involve? I know my oil was low last time I rode so I threw in some more...then it burned it and left a nasty burny smell for a little bit...
Quote from: djplumkingwhat does the 600 mile service involve?
Check out the "Maintenance Schedule" entry in the "Go To" dropdown in the upper right-hand corner of this page.
It's up to you whether you do EVERYTHING on the list. But better safe than sorry!
Yes the intermittent clunk is a strange noise. I pretty much ignore it. I've got a 2000 model.
It's character my fine colleagues. That's what it is.
:guns:
Smooth Dave
is the rust on the buts and bolts ? Cause i think i read on here, if you dab some grease on the nuts and bolts, that will help prevent rusting of them.
Ive got the same noise also, my valves checked out so its very likely its the cams as mentioned by Kerry.
If the cams do have side-to-side play in them and that is causing the noise, there is a supposed to be a washer on the left side of the cam to eliminate the play. I wonder if some the 04 models are missing them or the washer is too thin. Just a thought.
btw...If I had a bike under warranty, I would be pestering the dealer until I was given a satisfactory explaination & repair of the noise. A group letter to Suzuki perhaps.
It's not a cam chain noise or valve train noise as I've said from the beginning, it's a camshaft with a bit too much sideplay moving back and forth sideways.
In case anyone is loosing too much sleep over it, it is harmless. Started in my 97 during the first 1k miles and went away when I went to 15W-50 Mobil 1 at about 5k miles. Ran the Mobil 1 till about 60k miles and changed to Mobil Delvac 15W-40 oil and the noise came back and is still there at about 80k miles. So don't panic till you have more than 80k on you engine. :lol: :lol: :lol:
It knocks only when hot, only at idle, pick up the revs and it goes away. If you can't live with it, you can try some heavier oil like the 15-50 or 20-50 which seems to quiet it for many, many miles. One opinion though on the heavier oil, the engine runs cooler with the 15-40 than it did with the heavier 15-50. When I changed from 15-50 to 15-40, I could run a octane grade lower gasoline without pinging under load in hot weather. I'm running the 15W-40 Delvac 1300 in both GS500's now. My 2002 GS500 does not have the knock and has 12k miles on it now. I'm gonna try to remember to check the camshaft sideplay on it next time I check the valves. Like Kerry's one bike, my 97 had excess sideplay in one camshaft and not the other.
Mine's making the same noise at idle(300 miles).
Jack,
The noise that I hear is always present. The dealer claims that he has at least one other 500F with the same complaint. I guess that this will be a good opportunity to "discover" how customer oriented this dealer is!
Gene
I'm having the same noise, I only really notice it when it's idling, but every now and then I notice it when I'm going slow speeds. But as you can tell from the thread I started, i'm having other issues with my bike.
Camshaft endplay CAN be removed, should you so desire. The "shim" washer comes in four thicknesses: 1, 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3mm. They're cheap-- Ron Ayers has them at $2.54 each. My GS has an ongoing knock but no vibration from 3500 to 6K, and am going to eliminate this before digging deeper (into my wallet).
I've attempted this adjustment once. When I recently checked tappet clearances I noticed considerable endplay of the intake cam, and less so on the exhaust. Ayers listed one as simply "washer shim", which I interpreted as considerably thinner than 1mm. I ordered two of those and a 1.3 mm thicknesses, figuring that I could at least minimize, if not remove the endplay with some combination.
I also thought there was a lot of play (~1mm), but it turned out the 1.3 mm was a very tight fit, and the "washer shims" were 1.0 mm's-- the same as stock washers. I've read the endplay spec is "barely detectable when cold", since it's a Buddha Loves You to measure. So, I placed an order yesterday for a pair each of the 1.1 and 1.2 mm, and will let y'all know what happens. :cheers:
OK, so if I put everything together correctly the washers you mentioned are items 8-1 through 8-4 on this Ron Ayers parts list (http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0284/cam_shaft_valve/cam_shaft_valve.cfm).
The descriptions seem to have been truncated, but I'm betting that it goes like this:PART # DESCRIPTION PRICE
09181-22167 273 Washer, Shim (stock 1.0mm size) $1.28
09160-22074 273 Washer, 22x30x1.1mm $2.54
09160-22075 273 Washer, 22x30x1.2mm $2.54
09160-22076 273 Washer, 22x30x1.3mm $2.54
Cool! I LOVE it when I learn something new about this bike! :thumb:
My new F has the clunk, too.
I live down near Houston in Texas. It's rainy today and my rotors developed rust while I was in work for a few hours. Crazy huh?
well, since my gs got the same noise (from the camshaft)
as every one here discribed it quite well ...
where shoud i put the shims ?
in god i hope to trust :dunno:
The link in my previous post takes you to a diagram showing where the shims go. Here is a slightly more user-friendly BikeBandit version (http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=722927).
In both diagrams, the shims are items 2 and 8. The Ron Ayers page shows Suzuki part numbers and prices.
I don't know what it would take to install a new shim, but a repair manual (or JLKasper) could probably walk you through it.
Quote from: Kerry
...I don't know what it would take to install a new shim, but a repair manual (or JLKasper) could probably walk you through it.
What I did last time: I didn't perform the complete procedure to remove both cams and reinstall them, since I only had enough (I thought) to do the intake cam only. I set the crank at Right cylinder TDC and the cams positioned as a shown on page 114 of the Clymer '89-96 manual. I removed the bearing caps, and simply lifted the cam up and replaced the washer at the left end, with one I had purchased. The 1.3 mm washer provided no endplay at all, and the other two "shims" were stock 1.0mm washers.
What I'll do next time (when the parts arrive from Ron Ayers-- they're en route from Charlotte NC at the moment). I'll look through the Haynes manual I just purchased from dgyver
(thanx again!) and see if it's any more clear. I'll remove both cams and try the 1.1 and 1.2mm, one at a time, to see what fits best. Like I said, it's difficult to measure with a feeler gauge and it's best to order all the washers so you'll have what fits best.
I can't overemphasize the importance of having a repair manual at your side during this procedure. I'd photocopy the relevant pages and use a highlighter liberally to ensure you understand the procedure. Allow yourself a few hours at least to complete this task. It requires removing the camchain tensioner (which means for those of us who can't hold our mouths just right, removing the carbs as well) and concentration to ensure that everything remains in careful orientation, lest expensive valve/piston contact occurs.
If you don't feel you have the patience or mechanical aptitude to perform this task, leave it alone or in the hands of someone more experienced. This noise is more annoying than detrimental; it's easy to screw it up and have the engine make more sickening and expensive noises if something is amiss. One other thing: if you've performed the DIY ignition advancer, you either need to reset the timing plate to stock configuration or fudge accordingly (~3mm clockwise from the the "R-T' mark) :cheers:
Quote from: JLKasperIt requires removing the camchain tensioner (which means for those of us who can't hold our mouths just right, removing the carbs as well)
I thought you could remove all tension on the camchain by retracting the tensioner (turning the slot on the back of the tensioner with a screwdriver). Does this not provide enough slack after all?
Kerry,
Turning the retractor screw releases the tension, but it doesn't hold. When I removed the tensioner with the carbs on, I jury-rigged a tool to hold the retractor in when I started the screws that holds the unit. It was very dicey, and it's just as easy to pull the carbs so you can easily get tools in behind the tensioner. YMMV
I've definantely noticed the clanking noise coming from my new F. Sometimes it's really noticable in idle, but I think its also there when the bike's getting throttle; it's just tuned out from the engine noise. Everything that I've read about it says it's harmless and one source even said it has something to do with the clutch :dunno:
Not to minimize any engine noises, but I wonder if the new GS500F series, with the beautiful full fairing, may be noisier due to vibration, or noise resonating off the fairing?Just a thought here.I don't own a GS500, but my nephew does, since I found him one and suggested it as a great first street bike(he had ridden dirt biked for years).He loves his 1994 GS.
JOn Neet
Quote from: proudlomI've definantely noticed the clanking noise coming from my new F. Sometimes it's really noticable in idle, but I think its also there when the bike's getting throttle; it's just tuned out from the engine noise. Everything that I've read about it says it's harmless and one source even said it has something to do with the clutch :dunno:
the noise coming form the camshaft
comes when the engine is very warm ... as you wrote noticable
in idle ...chk it ...
Confronting some problem while re-assembling my top engine , searched up some thread and found this one...
HELP?
My problem is when I try to re-assemble the two camshafts in their right position , while the R.T mark is aligned -- the 18 pins gap on the camchain is allright , but after tightening the bolts of the camshafts bearing caps -- the R.T mark has moved a few mm's....
As I'm working with a Haynes manual this is not clear if this movement is alright ( the movement comes from the pressure of the exhaust camshaft on the valve cup).
Thanks in advance!
Ohad
EDIT: Kerry replaced Unicode character codes with equivalent ASCII characters.
Quote from: KerryOK, so if I put everything together correctly the washers you mentioned are items 8-1 through 8-4 on this Ron Ayers parts list.
The descriptions seem to have been truncated, but I'm betting that it goes like this:PART # DESCRIPTION PRICE
09181-22167 273 Washer, Shim (stock 1.0mm size) $1.28
09160-22074 273 Washer, 22x30x1.1mm $2.54
09160-22075 273 Washer, 22x30x1.2mm $2.54
09160-22076 273 Washer, 22x30x1.3mm $2.54
Cool! I LOVE it when I learn something new about this bike! :thumb:
nowdays i`m working at a factory and i can make a washer shim
(or any other ring\shim that i want to make ....) :cheers:
so ....
1) i need know the size of the shim (inside ring &
outside)
2) what kind of matirial is the shim made of ?
help me save some dolars .... :thumb:
Quote from: erezshlez1) i need know the size of the shim (inside ring &
outside)
2) what kind of matirial is the shim made of ?
1) See the chart that you quoted. It looks like the O.D. is 30mm, the I.D. is 22 mm, and the material thickness is 1.0 - 1.3mm in .1mm increments.
2) Steel I'm sure, but it probably doesn't need to be ultra hard or anything. It's only there to prevent
sideways motion of the cam, after all.
Quote from: erezshlezhelp me save some dolars .... :thumb:
Hmmm, $2.54 per, plus shipping. How much will it cost you for materials, etc?
Depends on what kind of Suzuki dealer network he has there in Jordan. I think there's one in UAE, but international shipping from BikeBandit in the US would be $20-$30 USPS or $50-$80 UPS/Fedex.
Jordan? Gulp! I withdraw the (implied) question.
Quote from: PeachyI'm having the same noise, I only really notice it when it's idling, but every now and then I notice it when I'm going slow speeds. But as you can tell from the thread I started, i'm having other issues with my bike.
I have just sat here reading all your posts and can't beleive what i have read, from 98% of you guys. it is Suzuki's problem to fix. To suggest that we should live with it, or spend time and money playing about with different grades of oil is ridiculess. It is not an expensive problem at this stage for Suzuki to fix.But will become so the longer they let it drag on and keep churning out more bikes. Can't see the problem of manufacturing a thicker washer or shim, as being such a great drama for them. As long as we bury our heads in the sand, while Suzuki look the other way the problem will never be fully addressed. I will keep beating at the dealers door till the problem is sorted out, and i hope they do the same at the Suzuki Factory door. At this stage it's not a problem with my dealership, as they have said it is a warranty problem, and will be fixed under warranty. If anyone of you guys have been told by the dealer that you bought your bike from that it is normal for them to knock, or tell you to live with it. I would be taking it to another dealership while it is still under warranty, and also contacting Suzuki Head Office. Go to the Maxim Suzuki site and read the stories how Suzuki tried to denie they had a piston problem with some K1 & K2 1200 Bandits...
I am not Suzuki bashing, as i own 8 Suzuki's bikes & enjoy riding them all.
As i said in my other post i will let you know the outcome with my wifes bike..........Cheers Red
PS- One of my bikes is a K2 12OO Bandit, without the piston problem
With my F, I only hear it if I start to ride before it warms up, sometimes there is a clunk when I engage the front brake the first time on a ride.
My '04 GS500f makes the same clunk clunck noise. I have 300 miles on it now and it gets louder everytime I ride it. You can clearly hear it over the noise of other bikes and traffic when it's idling at stop lights.
The service manager and mechanic at the dealership both agree there is something wrong, but I need to complete the 600 mile break in before they contact Suzuki.
I'll post whatever they find at the 600 mile check up.
I had the "clunk" noise and had brought it suzuki and the mechanic said he already knew what theproblem was as other F owners compained. He ordered the parts and fixed it. Works fine now.
:o Whats up everyone? I just purchased my 04 F,right now I have about 1300 miles on it and it started clunking around the 500 mile mark...The noise comes and goes,sometimes it real loud and sometimes it barely noticable...Well I thought it was something I did to it,but as I can see its a common problem with these bikes...I just hope that Suzuki figures out whats going on and gets the problem solved...Its annoying to pay 6 grand for a bike and then to have it clunking 75% of the time.....Just my thoughts on this...... :dunno:
Regrettably, that noise is common among '04 'F's. If you search, you'll find several threads on this topic. My 'F' had "the noise". My buddy's did not. It lessened over time and was heard only occasionally after 3800 miles. No noticeable engine problems. As a matter of fact, my noisy 'F' used less oil than my friend's quiet 'F'' ! Speaking of oil, make sure that it is full. The dealer that I used for service synced the carbs after I really, really complained. That did help but the rattle persisted.
Break it in and don't worry about it.
Gene
I have a 99 model with the same problem but only when it's hot,I'm ingear and the clutch is pulled. Should I worry ?
I got my 04 GS500F a month ago with 2K miles on it... and didnt notice this at first...but it isnt under warranty anymore and I hear this same pinging/tapping on and off at idle. I will contact the dealer where I bought it and see if they say soemthing similiar about the camshaft endplay. It does seem harmless, but I just worry about down the road if no one really shims it, could it beat up the engine? Most people say no, and I trust ya...
And well I love the bike already (going to MSF soon, then will ride on the highway! woohooo) and wouldnt sell it, but imagine going to resell it and its knocking and pinging up a storm at idle. Then you say, "Well, this one forum says its normal and I agree". I wouldnt buy that excuse or the bike. Haha, ok I just wont sell the F...it can go with my to the afterlife...
-Hops
i have the same knocking noise, mine is not quiet i can hear it over the sound of the engine and my helmet visor closed, but when i accellerate past 2000-3000RPM it dissappears. i did a 1000mile service on it last week thinking it was a valve adjustment or carb adjustment, but after the adjustment it was still there. the dealer is flying in a suzuki rep for western canada to hear my bike. no mechanics have figured this one out. i stumped 3 techs(different dealerships) and 2 "know it alls" this thread is quite a relief though. i dont think it is anything. the dealer said "it seems fine, but if it gets worse, stop riding" LOL Thanks for the 160$ advice... darn, ohh well. Ill tell you all what happens after the rep looks at it.
Laterz
Same noise I have been hearing. I can hear it up through the rpm's until the exhaust sound drowns it out. 850+ miles on it