Author Topic: Cylinder honing tips?  (Read 1678 times)

Offline Mandres

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Cylinder honing tips?
« on: May 20, 2006, 11:06:51 AM »
I picked up a 3 stone cylinder hone and am ready to deglaze the cylinder bores.  I've never honed a cylinder before so I thought I'd ask for advice before jumping in.  What kind of oil should I use for the operation.  How much should I use and where should I apply the oil?  How long should I run the hone in each cylinder; how many strokes does it usually take?  How fast should I move the hone back and forth to get the proper angle on the crosshatch? 

Thanks,

-M

Offline scratch

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2006, 11:22:40 AM »
If you're really good you could get a good 45 degree crosshatch in four passes, if you know the speed of your drill, and you know how fast to push and pull.  If this is the first time you're ever doing this, you're going to need a few practice passes so you can inspect your crosshatch, to judge drill speed and (your) arm speed.  Good luck!
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Offline skoebl

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2006, 11:35:59 AM »
What does honing do? Does it just replace the grooves that were in it when it was new?
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Offline Mandres

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2006, 11:56:20 AM »
Exactly, the rough finish holds oil and causes the rings and cylinder to wear together and make a good seal. 

Scratch, I've never done this before so could you give me a base guideline of how fast to move the drill back and forth? 

thx

-M

Offline john

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2006, 12:18:59 PM »
Where's Srinath when you need him  :dunno_white:
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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2006, 12:25:20 PM »
Exactly, the rough finish holds oil and causes the rings and cylinder to wear together and make a good seal. 

Scratch, I've never done this before so could you give me a base guideline of how fast to move the drill back and forth? 

thx

-M

Well, since you want 45 degree crosshatching, you need to base the speed on the speed of your drill.  To put it concisely, the speed that you move the drill should match the speed of the stones.  That way, the spiral will be at 45 degrees.  Now, how do you manage to do this?  I have no idea.  I've not done it before, but I know the theory!  :icon_mrgreen:
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Offline sledge

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2006, 05:12:00 PM »
Are you Honing or Glaze-busting? They are 2 different operations. Honing is carried out after re-boring, usualy on a automated machine where the  rate of tool travel is synchronised with the diameter of the bore and rpm of the tool to give the required 45 deg angle. It is very very difficult to achieve a satisfactory result by hand with a power drill. On the other hand Glaze-busting is basicaly  a clean up of the cylinder walls which will improve the effects of honing. This link gives  some good info on the subject.

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/techfiles/tech05010600.html

Offline Mandres

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2006, 07:20:03 PM »
I see, well then technically I'm glaze-busting.  The cylinders have not been bored out.  I just fit new piston rings and want to give the cylinders the right finish to break them in. 

Offline sledge

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2006, 08:38:35 PM »
I have never really been instructed on exactly how to glaze-bust but have done it 3 or 4 times in the past when replacing rings with no apparent problems relating to wear or oil consumption. On each occasion I used the sprung three-legged tool in a power drill, I just ran it up and down the cylinder a few times, dry, without any oil until I got the nice dull grey finish along the cylinder wall that you see with freshly rebored and honed cylinders. The original 45 deg`honed cross-hatching was still visible on each occasion. Then, and this is the tricky bit I borrowed a bore-scope from work and measured the cylinder diameter in 3 places, top, middle and bottom at 90 deg` intervals to give 12 readings which I then compared to the maximum allowable figure stated by the maker for the clinder diam` to ensure they were still within tolerance, on each occasion the process removed between 0.0005" and 0.001" of metal.  As I said before I dont know for certain if this is the correct or recognised way to glaze-bust or not and will stand corrected,  but I will say  the method worked for me without any apparent or adverse effects on wear or oil consumption. It is however absolutely vital that the cylinder is as clean as possible afterwards as the dust generated is highly abrasive and will accelerate piston/cylinder wear if its not all removed. If its any help to you, the maximum diameter for  the cylinder bore as quoted in the service manual is 74.08mm or 2.916"

Offline GeeP

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2006, 01:52:22 AM »
Run the drill motor at around 250 RPM or so, faster if you feel comfortable.  (About 1/4 throttle on a 3/8ths drill).  The in and out motion will be fairly quick and firm.  That's about the best I can describe it.  Set the tension light on the hone and give it a whirl.  By running the tension light on your first pass or two you'll be able to gauge your pattern without removing much material. 

If this is your first time, I suggest you get a "bottle brush" type hone.  They're much easier to control, and they'll give a better surface finish.  Bottle brush hones, as their name implies, look like big bottle brushes with stones in place of bristles.  However, as long as you go slow the first time out you should be fine.  Make sure the hone has the correct stones, cylinders should be deglazed at about 220 grit if I recall correctly. 

Technically speaking you should use "honing oil" to lubricate the hone.  However, a light film of motor oil or 3-in-one-oil will work fine.  You can even hone dry on a clean cylinder, but carbon deposits on "removed from service" cylinders will quickly foul the stones.

REMEMBER:  You are not trying to remove material when you de-glaze.  Go VERY light and easy.  As soon as the pattern develops and the low "blotchy" spots fill in you're done.

Don't get too anal about your pattern.  As long as it's even around the cylinder you'll be fine.
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Offline Mandres

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Re: Cylinder honing tips?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2006, 11:52:14 AM »
cool, thanks GeeP