Author Topic: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts  (Read 10094 times)

Offline flyingbeagle71

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Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« on: August 16, 2006, 09:24:47 AM »
I snapped two of my Exhaust header bolts last night!!!   :mad: :mad:  My plan was to remove the pipes and paint them, but in the process of removing the exhaust head, one bolt came out fine, two snapped off and the head is stripping out of the fourth.  I've WD40'd them like crazy, but they still snapped.  One of the snapped bolts is sticking out about 1/2", not sure on the other yet.  Not sure what to do now...

a. More WD40 and a pair of vice grips for both the snapped bolt and the one with the head that is stripping out?
b. A bolt extractor of some sort?
c. A new cylinder head?
d. Bring it in to the shop.
GS500F in BLUE because that's the COOLEST color!

Offline vsboxerboy

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2006, 09:29:17 AM »
Haha, I broke one of my bolts taking my exhaust off last night as well  :mad: :mad:
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Offline The Buddha

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2006, 09:54:43 AM »
I broke 2 off in the bike that I later sold to drifter8899 and then awormon. I drilled out the bolts, cleaned out the hole, helicoiled it to a standard size and used a different set of bolts with SAE thread and hex head with a in built flange. Just so you know they are different. I dunno if either of them yanked off the pipe ... but that is what you would ahve to do. In my case - they were impossible to remove, welding, cutting a slot in the stump, nothing worked. One I managed to drill right down the middle but still managed to chew the threads, the other went off center and I ate a part of the head. No biggie, had to open up the hole even more to helicoil it.
I parked it on center stand, held up the front from the rafters on my welders roof, and cinched the back down to the holes he had in the floor. Then I yanked the front fork legs off and pitched camp right there for 2 days. By far, the hardest thing I have ever done.
Cool.
Srinath.
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Offline sledge

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2006, 10:28:28 AM »
Removing broken header bolts effectively is extremely difficult on any bike. The links give an insights in whats involved and some good hints and tips. Personaly I would remove the cylinder block and take it to a good machine-shop or engine reconditioning firm who have the know-how, experience and are tooled up to do the job. Over the years I have seen too many parts rendered scrap by the efforts of keen but inexperienced people trying to remove broken fixings and for the cost involved to have it professionaly done I wouldnt risk my cylinder block.

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/may2003/techtotech.cfm

http://www.dimebank.com/tech/BrokenBolt.html

Offline flyingbeagle71

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2006, 01:12:59 PM »
Starting to sound like taking a pair of vicegrip's to it might not be a good idea.  My local shop wouldn't even guess at a price unless I bring the bike in to them...which no isn't driveable... Oh well.  I don't want to spend too much on a repair, I can get a complete head with valves and all from ebay for $150.  It's from a 89 though, so it may not fit my 04 though...  :dunno_white:
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Offline The Buddha

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2006, 06:42:31 PM »
OK If you cant get those things out, do not attempt to replace the head with an ebay head. BTW you cant trust an ebay head, heck every freaking thing I bought off ebay has been a disappointment unless it was new. Used wileyco with the thread inserts loose, a Yosh with a ding in it that the a$$hat conveniently placed the clamp on when he took the photos the list goes on ... get the studs out. BTW an 89 head is black, and yours is grey. May fit but will look like sheite. Get that damn thing off. Fairing off, centerstand, strap handle bar middle part to ceiling and the back sissy bar to the floor ... yank off the fork legs and wheel and get cracking. Oh yea cram the exhaust ports with cloth ... else you'll be fishing metal shrapnel out the cylinders.
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Offline Gisser

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2006, 10:49:07 PM »
Fairing off, centerstand, strap handle bar middle part to ceiling and the back sissy bar to the floor... yank off the fork legs and wheel and get cracking. 
Cool.
Srinath.

That's a lot of work.  You might as well just remove the head and get it on the bench where you can properly attempt some of the extraction methods already mentioned (welding, slotting, drilling, easy-outs, etc).  After all, you can't get the motorcycle into a drill press. :icon_rolleyes: 

But don't get too ham-fisted.  You can always take the head to a machine shop equipped with an Electrical Discharge Machine which will burn the sucker out via spark erosion.   :cheers:       
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 10:59:39 PM by Gisser »

Offline MarkusN

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2006, 03:13:43 AM »
I just had a similar experience with my rear rim (one of the brake rotor bolts snapped). Of course, that's a part that you can take off the bike much more easily.

Took it to a machine shop where we drilled it out dead center, tried to EZ out it, no soap, then drilled out with the full core diameter. The thread could be wound out like a spring then. Still, some of it broke off, so we re-tapped it (had about 1.5 d for the tap as a guide before it had to cut any metal.)

So, I was lucky in the end, but we had the best of tools at our disposal and took no chances.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2006, 09:02:35 AM »
Getting the head off -
The list goes like this for that. Get the fairing off, get the tank off, carbs off, the alternator, spark plugs, trigger mechanism, and tachometer electrical leads off, get the chain off (endless prolly) and take the motor mounts off and the right frame section off, and get the motor out. Oh yea drain the oil. Then off goes the valve cover, the cam chain tensioner, the cam shafts, and hang up the cam chain. Then off comes the head. Might as well take off the cylinders, hone them and hand fit rings. Get the head to a shop and get it extracted and reverse the whole process. Yea in some rare bikes the head will coem out with the motor still in. But no way the cylinders will and you do need to hone and put gaskets on the head and base. I've done the first part on a GS, the second on a savage. I'll do the former anyday. But then again I am not that comfortable with getting up into motors yet.
Cool.
Srinath.
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Offline flyingbeagle71

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2006, 10:12:11 AM »
It might come to removing the head, but I found a dealer that say's they'll remove the bolts for $20 each.  40 bucks total!!!  For that price, I'm bringing the bike in tomorrow!  Only problem is, I've never used them before, so not sure how good their service dept. is....   :dunno_white:

Hopefully all goes well, wish me luck!!!!  :cheers:
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Offline Gisser

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2006, 01:01:12 AM »
Getting the head off -
The list goes like this for that. Get the fairing off, get the tank off, carbs off,
OK
Quote
the alternator, spark plugs,
No
Quote
trigger mechanism,
Coils?  OK
Quote
and tachometer
OK
Quote
electrical leads off, get the chain off (endless prolly)
No
Quote
and take the motor mounts off
Maybe
Quote
and the right frame section off,
No
Quote
and get the motor out.
No
Quote
Oh yea drain the oil.
No
Quote
Then off goes the valve cover,
OK
Quote
the cam chain tensioner,
No
Quote
the cam shafts, and hang up the cam chain. Then off comes the head.
OK
Quote
Might as well take off the cylinders, hone them and hand fit rings.
No
Quote
Get the head to a shop and get it extracted and reverse the whole process. Yea in some rare bikes the head will coem out with the motor still in. But no way the cylinders will and you do need to hone and put gaskets on the head and base.
Frames are designed with servicability in mind.  Cylinders can be removed with the engine in the frame, however,  I think removing the heads without disturbing the cylinders is the SOP in MC shops.  Base gaskets get practically welded onto the cases and if they weren't leaking before they'll leave well enough alone.  Same for honing cylinders--if it ain't broke don't fix it.   

Of course, at $20 per bolt removal on the bike this is all moot.  That should be a fun job for some bottom rung grunt.  :icon_rolleyes:   

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2006, 08:08:38 AM »
OK how they do it in a shop vs how its supposed to be done. I know they can pull the thing off, in fact factories glue the gaskets to the motor instead of the cover so when you pull off your alternator cover, you will have to clean the mofo off the motor. On a GS, you get the head off, no way you dont disturb the base. Some motors have 2-4 bolts albeit small ones holding the cylinder on the crankcase.  Those I can let the base gasket stay if I didn't yank the cylinders. On a GS heck the cylinder studs go through the cylinders and will be sticking up through the head. I dont think you'd get the head even out. They should've used bolts ... that you remove entirely, so the head can move back and out instead of up and out. Yea you can if you're lucky and very very careful manage it - Dgyver - I cant find your post about this from like a year or so earlier ... could you say how you do it. And what you think of my idea of swapping studs for bolts ???
Cool.
Srinath.
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Offline werase643

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2006, 08:24:31 AM »
i'd think you were a flaming ideot

studs are used for a reason....serviceability....
so dumbasses dont strip out the cases and make the engine a boat anchor

it only takes 30 min to remove the engine ya lazy bastid



p.s.   i still like you even if you put a frickin belt on a gs some day
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 08:26:17 AM by werase643 »
want Iain's money to support my butt in kens shop

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2006, 08:29:46 AM »
Blah blah blah ...
I can strip a stud too ...
Removing the motor was what we talking about - to get the head off we have to remove the motor right ...
Hey - is a GS450 motor same starter clutch as the GS500. How about GR650 tempter ??
Cool.
Srinath.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 08:31:20 AM by seshadri_srinath »
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Offline sledge

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2006, 08:33:11 AM »
Suzuki service manual says the head and cylinders can be removed with the engine in the frame, but I have never tried it so cant comment  :dunno_white:

Offline werase643

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2006, 08:33:33 AM »
you asked........  And what you think of my idea of swapping studs for bolts  
Cool.
Srinath.

i answered.....

want Iain's money to support my butt in kens shop

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2006, 09:22:27 AM »
That's not a real answer - kawasaki uses bolts. My eli - unbolt the head bolts, then the head goes up 1/2 inch to clear the locator dowels, and off it comes - and on it its out the side instead of to the back as in the GS. Stripping the threads - OK not a real reason - why those people never heard of helicoils  :laugh: ... the factory decided to shaft us ... OK real answer - Just like everything else.
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Offline MarkusN

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2006, 10:27:46 AM »
Folks on the German GS forums have reported that they have removed the head with the motor in theframe. Apparently it's doable.

And though of course a stud can be stripped, the risk of doing so is much higher with a steel bolt in a cast aluminium base.

That's why I have swapped the header bolts for stainless studs. Haven't had to touch them since, so I don't know how well it worked out.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2006, 10:39:10 AM »
Dgyver also has gotten the head off with motor in the frame. In doing so will you not invariably mess up the base gasket seal.
Cool.
Srinath.
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Offline wever411

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Re: Grrr...Broken Exhaust Header Bolts
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2006, 10:41:40 AM »
Is it pretty common for these bolts to break off or strip the heads? Is it a case of user error or are the bolts just crap? I was about to do my first 600 mile service and I was wondering if I should replace them instead of just re-tightening them. Thanks for the help.

 

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