Neutral light remains on all the time even in gear

[exfirestorm]

Before I begin I would like to say that this problem only became apparent after I blew the main 20amp fuse by connecting an electronic blinker relay into the circuit that connect into what I think is the sidestand switch relay (It clicks when you put the sidestand up and down and it had the word Omron something written on it . Upon turning on the ignition the bike blew the fuse. Yes it was stupid of me to connect up the blinker relay to something that i didnt understand but I was trying to diagnose why the bikes new LED indicators wouldnt work ( I have since fixed the problem.)

I disconnected the electronic blinker relay and returned the main omron side stand switch relay back to its connector. All the wiring has been returned back to its original configuration (EXCEPT FOR 4 LED TURN SIGNALS,  AN ELECTRONIC BLINKER RELAY (2PIN) connected into the correct 2 pin blinker relay wiring) AND THE TWO WIRES LEADING TO THE TURN SIGNAL INDICATOR LAMP HAVE BEEN CUT AND INSULATED INDIVIDUALLY ON THE END.

SO THE PROBLEM IS THIS:
The bike's neutral light remains on at all times regardless of gear ....EXCEPT when the sidestand is down and when the sidestand is down the neutral light will go off regardless of whether or not the bike is PHYSICALLY in neutral or not.

The bike will not start AT ALL WHEN THE SIDE STAND IS DOWN. (Thats good)
The bike will START at all times when the SIDESTAND IS UP providing the clutch is in at the time (THAT IS GOOD)

The normal path of electrical diagnosis I would think would be to install a new neutral switch ...however... is it common for this switch to malfunction and read always on until such time as the side stand is put down where it would go off.

Or have I burned out some other part of the circuitry.

If anyone has any specific expertise in this area could they please point me in the right direction before I get a new neutral switch (Which I dont think is faulty)

[exfirestorm]

Having thought about this problem for a while it would seem logical that the neutral switch is working fine on account of the fact that the bike wont start with the sidestand down. It would also be unlikely that a human induced short would damage this particular component of the circuit. The fact that the side stand being up or down has such a big impact on the lighting of the neutral light would tend to make me think that the problem could more appropriately be located in the side stand switch relay thingy which is what I stupidly shorted with the blinker relay.

Does anyone know how much these sidestand switch thingeys are. I am right in assuming that this is the small black box with 'omron' written on it that goes click when the sidestand goes up and down.


What do you think ?

[starwalt]

Damn, that's messed up.

The smart a$$ reply is to pull the neutral lamp like the TS lamp.
But then you still have a mystery in the wiring.

I think you have induced a low side short in the neutral lamp path -- possibly damage to the diode pack, but that remains to be be seen. When you close the side stand switch, it shorts out the neutral lamp via the side stand relay. If this is true, the side stand relay robs all the juice because it and the neutral lamp seem to be in parallel. This is just speculation though.

In an unmodified circuit, the neutral lamp gets the ground (earth for our EU friends) from the neutral switch only. The neutral switch also can provide the ground for the side stand relay via the diode pack. The diode pack isolates the relay circuit from the lamp, but allows the neutral switch to pull the relay in.

The neutral switch is only one wire that runs from the LH side above the drive sprocket up to the wiring harness.

Can you read a schematic? I ask because if John Bates doesn't post his simplified start cicuit diagram here, I will.

[exfirestorm]

I just read one of John Yates' replies to someone else that was having a similar problem and he suggested a bad side stand relay diode that was giving a false ground to the neutral light.

He seems like a fairly cluey type of guy.

Does anyone know wherethe side stand relay diode is located on the bike . I know where the side stand relay is (The clickety black box with Omron written on the side of it. I dont have my mates bike here at the moment and I want to go straight to the apparent source of the problem and replace it.

Does anyone know where I can get a side stand relay diode or will I have to make one. Does anyone have any pictures??

This forum is so much better than the SVdownunder forum for the speed of responses!!!

THANKS HEAPS

[starwalt]

The diode pack for the GS is under the left side body plastics or under the seat. I just happen to have some photos of our subject showing it along with the battery ground (earth).


Click on the thumbnail for the big pic.

I have repainted my battery box red, so don't let that throw you off. The diode pack is on the white connector with the blue and green wires.

[exfirestorm]

Starwalt


you are the man !!!

Thank you very much.

Here is a picture of my mate's GS500 that my inquiries have been relating to. The bike next to it is my 2006 SV1000S

[starwalt]

Nice bike pic, but now that I know you are wrenching a late model...be aware that the diode pack looks different. It may be taped onto the white connector. Heck it may be somewhere entirely different too!

I have an 04 harness here (I own 2 1/2 1990 GS's) and it still uses the three wire -- blue & green -- with a white connector. The diode pack looks very different than the pic I showed you. (Guess that means I will have to post a pic of that later!)

One day I am going to develop the "GS Nervous System Exposed" showing just the wiring harness and all the gadgets connected to it as layed out on a white surface.

How cool would that be?

Good luck!

[Mandres]

How cool would that be?

That would be extremely cool!  If it were labeled and explained I think it would be a huge asset to the community.

[starwalt]

UPDATED INFORMATION FOR LATE MODEL GS's

11/10/2006 Another member posted pics of the TSR in his '04 and it was a Guilera also. HERE IS the link.
That's 2 '04 harnesses with Guileras.

We have a trend I think.   

I dug further into the 04 harness and found it had an electronic flasher in the harness -- not the old school LCR (voodoo) type. It was a Guilera 012340. I linked the buzzwords to the Guilera site.

This flasher worked fine on my 90. No "click-tink-click" sounds.

I also looked at the diode pack in this harness -- VERY DIFFERENT.

It also seems to be a Guilera with THIS configuration.

I have confirmed the anode/cathode configuration via ohm meter.

Notice the latching mechanism on the gadget. This is different than the old school diode pack that depended on black tape and friction on the contacts.  See John Bates' link to a related thread below for more pics of the old diode module.

[John Bates]

Check out this thread for "How to test the neutral indicator bulb ckt without a meter"

[starwalt]

I knew this had been covered before...

Now to move or link it in the FAQ or the Wiki...

Mod?  Sanjay?

Hey, isn't the point of the Wiki to have the power moved to the people?

In the spirit of mid term elections, hands up that vote John writes the Neutral Light On article for the Wiki.   

[sanjay]

Hey, isn't the point of the Wiki to have the power moved to the people?

Power to the people!  But you didn't add it...

That's ok, I put the links to these threads there.  One day it will get cleaned up, when someone has some time (that could be you!), but in the meantime, at least it's accessible.