Air filter

[Jack Hass]

I'm looking to replace the airbox with individual air filters.  Any one running a K&N lunchbox, or individuals?  I've heard that they lead to engine wear as they are dirty.  Any other options besides K&N?   

Thanks

[seamax]

I run K&N pods and they do get dirty but that's what they are suppose to do. The nice thing with K&N is that you can spray it down with water, dry and re-oil it. I have a used set for sale if your interested.

[SS Adrenaline]

I have also heard that they are dirty, but do those people mean that it gets dirty on the out side or lets alot of sediments into the engine?

Also would anyone know what size the breather hose is for the crank case?

[Big Rich]

Check this out:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

Granted, they are testing filters for a diesel truck, but K&N elements are basically the same for motorcycles.......

[twinrat]

this is what i run , the filter on the left is a gs oem filter and the one on the right is a suzuki GSX 1400 filter ,if it will look after a 106 HP four it will certanly be large enough for a 500 and the beauty is it will fit straight into a standard airbox absolutly no modifications required.I like the standard airbox because it supports the carburettors best .Also i did vacuem tests on the airbox and found no vacuem issues with the standadr filter which proved the factory got it right.I only tried the GSX1400 filter because i was changing one.

[xtelevisionset]

AC Delco it is then!

Now I'm thinking twice about the K&N filter in my truck...

[comradeiggy]

I could have told you that... It makes sense. A filter that captures more dirt is going to have more resistance to airflow, and a filter that captures less will have less resistance. Less resistance ~ better performance.

[twocool]

I could have told you that... It makes sense. A filter that captures more dirt is going to have more resistance to airflow, and a filter that captures less will have less resistance. Less resistance ~ better performance.

Right, like most things, there is a trade off.....you can't have it both ways.  Here it is flow vs filtering.

But this begs the question; Which is more important?  (Or does it even matter?)


Cookie

[sa1126]

While we are on the subject- does anyone else find the airbox to be a total pain in the ass?  I cannot seem to wiggle it back into place for the life of me.  I have to unbolt the petcock to even get close.

[Dizzledan]

The stock filter fitting is most of the reason why I got a lunchbox. I believe if you attach it to the carbs first, and then put the carbs on it will work better.

[Phil B]

I run K&N pods and they do get dirty but that's what they are suppose to do. The nice thing with K&N is that you can spray it down with water, dry and re-oil it. I have a used set for sale if your interested.

Do you have a convenient web reference for how to do this, how often to do this, and where to get the "re-oil" supplies cheaply?

[Phil B]

I could have told you that... It makes sense. A filter that captures more dirt is going to have more resistance to airflow, and a filter that captures less will have less resistance. Less resistance ~ better performance.

Right, like most things, there is a trade off.....you can't have it both ways.  Here it is flow vs filtering.

Correction: you cant have it both ways, IF all you change is the filter material.
But, if you also change the aperture of the filtering mechanism, then you can have same(or greater) airflow, with increased filtering quality as well.
Which is why some people do that, I think.

[twocool]

I could have told you that... It makes sense. A filter that captures more dirt is going to have more resistance to airflow, and a filter that captures less will have less resistance. Less resistance ~ better performance.

Right, like most things, there is a trade off.....you can't have it both ways.  Here it is flow vs filtering.

Correction: you cant have it both ways, IF all you change is the filter material.
But, if you also change the aperture of the filtering mechanism, then you can have same(or greater) airflow, with increased filtering quality as well.
Which is why some people do that, I think.

?  ya lost me there.....


Cookie

[seamax]

To each his own opinion. I've always used K&N. I have them in my cars and bikes. They capture lots of dirt/debri and are easy to clean and reuse. If you want less or no resistance then get velocity stacks. 

But I think it also depends on the environment you ride in. My riding is mostly commute in non traffic, no highway or dirt roads. I clean and re-oil my filter twice a year. Which probably isn't necessary. It's mainly a hose spray from inside out and outside of the pods, if really dirty use the filter cleaner then hose, let dry and re-oil.

Here's what I use to clean my K&N pods also made by K&N.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/72/7412/ITEM/K-N-Filter-Service-Kit.aspx?SiteID=CSE_Gbase_7412&WT.mc_ID=80003&zmam=88421133&zmas=1&zmac=45&zmap=7412

[Phil B]

Correction: you cant have it both ways, IF all you change is the filter material.
But, if you also change the aperture of the filtering mechanism, then you can have same(or greater) airflow, with increased filtering quality as well.
Which is why some people do that, I think.

?  ya lost me there.....

Picture an unrestricted, 1 inch diameter pipe. making up numbers, lets say it normally passes 5cfm worth of air.

Add in a regular filter, it has a penalty of 20% airflow, so 4cfm.
Add in a "high quality" filter, lets say that has a penalty of 40% airflow, so 3cfm.

BUT. change out the 1inch pipe, to 2inch diameter pipe. that can pass apprxomately 4 times the amount of air.
so, 20cfm.
A regular filter would still be able to pass 16cfm, and a high quality one, 12 cfm.

So, if you increase filtering quality, AND increase aperture of filter, you can "have it both ways".
cleaner air, *and* greater airflow.
You dont even have to replace the entire air intake system; just the bit around the filter.
(it will then be limited to the air flow rate of the original pipes without a filter, though)

[twocool]

Correction: you cant have it both ways, IF all you change is the filter material.
But, if you also change the aperture of the filtering mechanism, then you can have same(or greater) airflow, with increased filtering quality as well.
Which is why some people do that, I think.

?  ya lost me there.....

Picture an unrestricted, 1 inch diameter pipe. making up numbers, lets say it normally passes 5cfm worth of air.

Add in a regular filter, it has a penalty of 20% airflow, so 4cfm.
Add in a "high quality" filter, lets say that has a penalty of 40% airflow, so 3cfm.

BUT. change out the 1inch pipe, to 2inch diameter pipe. that can pass apprxomately 4 times the amount of air.
so, 20cfm.
A regular filter would still be able to pass 16cfm, and a high quality one, 12 cfm.

So, if you increase filtering quality, AND increase aperture of filter, you can "have it both ways".
cleaner air, *and* greater airflow.
You dont even have to replace the entire air intake system; just the bit around the filter.
(it will then be limited to the air flow rate of the original pipes without a filter, though)

I am not trying to be argumentitive..but I am thick headed and don't understand...

Isn't it all limited by the "throat" of the carburetor?   Or is it the diameter of the intake manifold?  Or is it how far the intake valve opens???

I mean you can have a six inch diameter pipe, but when it necks down to 1 "...the restriction is due to the 1".

I could see using a larger filter, with more surface area, therefore more tiny pores for the air to pass through.

But now think of this...what limits the airflow into the engine?   The throttle!!!  I mean the whole reason for a throttle is to limit air, thus limiting power.

The only time the air filter is restricting air, is when at wide open throttle.....

Cookie

[twocool]

To each his own opinion. I've always used K&N. I have them in my cars and bikes. They capture lots of dirt/debri and are easy to clean and reuse. If you want less or no resistance then get velocity stacks. 

But I think it also depends on the environment you ride in. My riding is mostly commute in non traffic, no highway or dirt roads. I clean and re-oil my filter twice a year. Which probably isn't necessary. It's mainly a hose spray from inside out and outside of the pods, if really dirty use the filter cleaner then hose, let dry and re-oil.

Here's what I use to clean my K&N pods also made by K&N.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/72/7412/ITEM/K-N-Filter-Service-Kit.aspx?SiteID=CSE_Gbase_7412&WT.mc_ID=80003&zmam=88421133&zmas=1&zmac=45&zmap=7412

I have used K&N in some cars, and also in my airplanes.  The big advantage is the ability to clean and reuse.  The "power" gained by less restriction is meaningless IMHO.  In ariplanes the air up there is pretty clean.....you're not sucking up road dirt all the time.  Also on airplanes we have carburetor heat, to prevent ice forming in carb and manifold when flying thru moist air....when the carb heat is turned "on" the air comes in directly, bypassing the filter all together.

Cookie

[Phil B]

I am not trying to be argumentitive..but I am thick headed and don't understand...

Isn't it all limited by the "throat" of the carburetor? 

...

okayokay that too :p

my post was only in response to the one about
(you can choose to have lots of air and minimal filtering, or have a super-clean filter and less air)

My point only being that if you increase the filter factor of the air filter, but also increase the amount of surface area for the filter at the same time, then you dont get hit with the "less air" factor.

[seamax]

Correction: you cant have it both ways, IF all you change is the filter material.
But, if you also change the aperture of the filtering mechanism, then you can have same(or greater) airflow, with increased filtering quality as well.
Which is why some people do that, I think.

?  ya lost me there.....

Your are correct sir. I didn't understand the piping size and all that mumbo jumbo. The only way to get more air flow in is to get a larger carb or go force induction.

Picture an unrestricted, 1 inch diameter pipe. making up numbers, lets say it normally passes 5cfm worth of air.

Add in a regular filter, it has a penalty of 20% airflow, so 4cfm.
Add in a "high quality" filter, lets say that has a penalty of 40% airflow, so 3cfm.

BUT. change out the 1inch pipe, to 2inch diameter pipe. that can pass apprxomately 4 times the amount of air.
so, 20cfm.
A regular filter would still be able to pass 16cfm, and a high quality one, 12 cfm.

So, if you increase filtering quality, AND increase aperture of filter, you can "have it both ways".
cleaner air, *and* greater airflow.
You dont even have to replace the entire air intake system; just the bit around the filter.
(it will then be limited to the air flow rate of the original pipes without a filter, though)

I am not trying to be argumentitive..but I am thick headed and don't understand...

Isn't it all limited by the "throat" of the carburetor?   Or is it the diameter of the intake manifold?  Or is it how far the intake valve opens???

I mean you can have a six inch diameter pipe, but when it necks down to 1 "...the restriction is due to the 1".

I could see using a larger filter, with more surface area, therefore more tiny pores for the air to pass through.

But now think of this...what limits the airflow into the engine?   The throttle!!!  I mean the whole reason for a throttle is to limit air, thus limiting power.

The only time the air filter is restricting air, is when at wide open throttle.....

Cookie

[Phil B]

But now think of this...what limits the airflow into the engine?   The throttle!!!  I mean the whole reason for a throttle is to limit air, thus limiting power.

The only time the air filter is restricting air, is when at wide open throttle.....

Cookie

Side note:  I thought the throttle had something to do with the amount of fuel put in, as well?