Author Topic: Ticking noise  (Read 404 times)

Offline tobyd

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Ticking noise
« on: August 11, 2018, 02:00:48 PM »
I have a ticking noise of my own now.

audible at tickover up past 50 and 60mph. The cam chain tensioner seems ok, the spring is there and it winds in and out and the end hasn't fallen off or anything. The valves are all in spec (one inlet is hovering at 0.07 / 0.08mm, so is borderline). spinning the engine by hand didn't produce any new noises, it turned freely. Timing is still right, hasn't skipped a tooth or anything.

Seems to have appeared, or at least I noticed it on Friday. On Tuesday morning I may have dropped the bike on myself a little bit - tapped it into first putting the sidestand down, clutch not on, jumped forward a bit and had a gentle controlled fall onto me... This was its left (side-stand / generator) side in case thats important. Wednesday it got a bit of a thrash and didn't have a tap. Thursday I was too hungover to ride a bike :(

The chain slack is somewhere between 20 and 30mm on the sidestand, closer to 20. That makes its own noise when the chain is too tight though.

a few posts on here mention the starter clutch (conveniently on that side) bolts coming loose. and I did wonder if it might be them?

before I dump the oil and have a look can anyone say "thats a terrible idea, it'll be the audiophile fuse on the numberplate" and/or confirm this tool will do the flywheel? I have read its M14 and 1.5 thread but does the puller need to be reverse threaded?

And is there anything else worth checking out once the cover is off?

Power doesn't seem affected, if anything its running a bit smoother, but once I noticed the noise I took it (mostly) very easy on the 15 miles home from work so maybe there is nothing past 4 or 5krpm now.

Offline sledge

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 05:28:39 PM »
The starter clutch becoming loose is a common issue and it needs to inspected and ruled out.
 
The extraction thread in the flywheel boss is a normal RH M14x1.5 form and that puller will fit but you may have to place a spacer of sorts into the hole in the crank end to give the puller something to act on. I made something out of a bit of steel bar I found in my garage, it was 35mm in length but I can't remember the diameter but it does need to be of a larger diameter than the flywheel retaining bolt.

You will have to lock the engine to get the retaining bolt out or you can hold the flywheel with a spanner on the flats that are on the boss.....22 or 24mm can't remember which.

Check the magnets on the inside of the flywheel Make sure they are all secure. When the flywheel goes back on it's VITAL the tapers are clean and dry, wipe them over with some petrol to get any oil off.

Loctite the starter clutch fixings and the flywheel retaining bolt.

Job jobbed  :thumb:

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2018, 06:08:34 PM »
Seems there was a drive-by post about just using a common-or-garden M14 coarse threaded bolt from somewhere as a puller? I didn't quite understand this - I assume you just thread it in until it bottoms out and keep going and the flywheel is forced off - seems a bit hacky?

I'll grab a puller and some Loctite and see whats going on in there.

Anyway, cheers for info - liked your idea about jamming a spanner between a spoke and the swing arm to lock up the engine (in another thread) too.

Offline J_Walker

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2018, 06:29:20 PM »
Seems there was a drive-by post about just using a common-or-garden M14 coarse threaded bolt from somewhere as a puller? I didn't quite understand this - I assume you just thread it in until it bottoms out and keep going and the flywheel is forced off - seems a bit hacky?

I'll grab a puller and some Loctite and see whats going on in there.

Anyway, cheers for info - liked your idea about jamming a spanner between a spoke and the swing arm to lock up the engine (in another thread) too.

The inside of the rotating part has threads, that's what this bolt threads into, the shaft its connected too is solid, with a dimple in the middle for the bolt that holds it on.. there's a Lip on the inside that when you stick your silver stock in and screw that bolt into it, it presses the part away from the shaft.

the most dangerous part is making sure it doesn't pop off and hit the floor..
-Walker

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2018, 07:02:12 PM »
Thats how I imagined it, once the flywheel bolt is out you can thread another in thats longer that the original and keep winding against the end of the crank and force the flywheel off. Just seemed a bit abrasive to the crankend.

shirley the flywheel is captive on the bolt and you are just winding it along the threads off the crank?

or do you mean dropping the bolt and flywheel in one fluid, expensive moment? I can do that.

I think i'll use a puller. Never have too many tools.

I'm guessing using high-tensile 12.9 bolts is a bit overkill and regular steel bolts + loctite will do? Half the other bolts Suzuki on these used are made of cheese so replacing with actual metal ones is sufficient?

Offline crackin

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 12:23:04 PM »
The 35mm steel rod spacer  needs to be 8mm diameter and actually goes into the crack end, not against the crank end. Then the 14mm bolt is threaded in against the spacer and pop's the rotor off.
Thats how I did mine when i removed it last week anyway.
 I'm not 100% sure you will need to remove the rotor to see that the starter clutch is loose. You should be able to manipulate the starter clutch by hand to see if there is any movement there.
  I'm also not 100% sure that the starter clutch is your problem.
 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 12:46:41 PM by crackin »
No matter what i do to it, it's still a GS
 It's not how fast your bike is, it's how long you are prepared to hold the throttle on.

Offline J_Walker

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 07:31:09 PM »
Use silver stock and harden it. I got a piece of mild steel rod "stuck" in there because the end mushroomed outwards. replaced it with a solid rod of drill rod [silver stock] that I oil quenched.
-Walker

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 07:43:15 PM »
What would you speculate crackin?

I can't think there is a whole lot else for top-end ticking, CCT and clearances are ok?

Offline crackin

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 08:51:32 PM »
i'm not willing to speculate on this one, I really have no idea.
 If you do decide to check the starter clutch don't drop the oil. Just lay the bike on its side and pull the side cover.
 What I can say is, pulling the rotor is a tough job, Im no mug when it comes to working on engines and I had a hard time getting the bugger off. I used a ratchet strap tied to the frame and wrapped it around the rotor to loosen the main bolt and it wasn't easy. Then I did the same thing to pull the rotor off and again, not easy. I actually thought the thread in the rotor was going to strip itself. It's not a pleasant experience.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 09:02:23 PM by crackin »
No matter what i do to it, it's still a GS
 It's not how fast your bike is, it's how long you are prepared to hold the throttle on.

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 06:41:53 PM »
nearly all the other bolts have lunched themselves so i'd imagine these will be no different and it'll be wrecked... hopefully can get going on this Saturday.

anyone know what sized bolts the starter clutch uses?

8mm X 1.25 Allen 12.9 hard metal is in the older post which I believe translates into

12.9 tensile M8 Coarse socket cap bolts. but not sure on length?

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2018, 11:52:43 AM »
I see what you mean about the flywheel bolt Crackin… what a hateful job. I think an impact gun would do it but I dont have one.

made up a 22mm shaft holder for the rotor assembly out of a spanner bent at the head end (I had to weld a bead to get enough heat in, my '2000 degree (c)' blow torch I think is made in K and F.  and ground thin
and with that jammed into a vice and me standing on the breaker bar got the bolt to turn. letting it cool a bit before removing it completely.

The magnets in the rotor aren't great. one is cracked and about a quarter I've removed. most of them have lost a few chips around the edges. Would I be right in thinking these aren't repairable?

Anyway, the starter clutch has movement. Not sure if its meant to have some play but it slides about 2mm towards the engine?

Update:

Not the starter clutch... The movement was on the starter gear ring.

used a 30mm bolt as a spacer and popped the flywheel with tool. I think a reverse threaded bolt of the right size would work fine if you didn't want the tool.

The 10.8 bolts holding the clutch on are about 16mm long, 24mm total. They were nice and tight.

Bits



Bad Magnets





I think there is too much damage here for the flywheel to ever run balanced so looks like it'll be replacement flywheel time....

Might the big chunk of the magnet thats come away have been ticking? This was cracked before I started (I think)?

Needs a replacement gasket anyway so I'll clean things up and get on over to ebay.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 12:37:40 PM by tobyd »

Offline crackin

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 09:18:44 AM »
Yep, that rotor is toasted. I don't think it can be repaired, best to find a replacement rotor. How do the stator coils look?
 Do you think this is the ticking sound you heard?
 You could put the side cover back on and start the bike with no rotor to see if the ticking noise is gone.
No matter what i do to it, it's still a GS
 It's not how fast your bike is, it's how long you are prepared to hold the throttle on.

Offline sledge

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 09:57:12 AM »
I think you need to find the broken bits of magnet before anything else  :dunno_black:

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2018, 06:46:48 PM »
They are all accounted for, the large chunk was rattling around but was still in place. A couple of the slivers were ground off by me holding the flywheel shaft (access being poor) and some came away when I was gently cleaning it. They quite conveniently attach themselves to the rotor housing.

Could be the noise, perhaps it got knocked when it fell over the other day and splintered a magnet and I could hear that ticking away. Bit strange though as I don't think it hit the ground, since I was in the way...

Sourced a replacement '90 rotor that should fit which hopefully will show up this week (from Germany). I'll replace the flywheel bolt too.

Anyway, I'll look into making up a better flywheel holding tool, the spanner isn't a great fit. The proper Suzuki one is about 90... I'm wondering if a strap wrench would work?

Offline J_Walker

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2018, 07:43:30 PM »
I used JB weld to hold the old bits in place, the balance wasn't even effected, I was prepared to balance it, but it wasn't even a gram off.

Actually the magnets weigh different weights more so then the adhesive.

I let the JB weld cure for well over two weeks before exposing it to oil tho.
-Walker

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 08:11:54 PM »
I was half considering trying to find some arc magnets to enact a repair but I'm fairly doubtful ones in the right curvature are available easily and I've no idea how strong the stock ones are. Neodymium ones could be a fair bit smaller for the same magnetism but its just guesswork and hoping they don't fry the RR or are too small and don't produce a big enough field for the stator to interact with.

I'll see, chipping out the old magnets will be pretty grim although a blow torch might soften the crumbly adhesive.

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2018, 02:14:43 PM »
Replacement rotor back on and I'm never doing that job again. Gave up trying to get the rotor bolt to 110-130nm, could only get it a bit past 98. Anyway, i'll tidy up the mess and take it out and see whats going on. Its starts, but I couldn't make out any untoward noises.

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2018, 09:28:58 PM »
Except I am because the replacement clutch doesn't disengage properly and makes bad noise whilst fighting the starter motor. Sigh. I'll put the old clutch on the 'new' rotor.

Still, new plugs and the bike is running beautifully!

Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2018, 06:56:19 PM »
the ticking was likely the starter / sprag clutch. which doesn't seem so happy. one flywheel is down two (complete) magnets, the other is on 5.5 magnets and might distintegrate (I don't know). I am sick of taking it to bits.

I get the symptoms here , loud crack as the starter engages. Was ok the first ride now sounds very rattly at tickover.

Both units exhibit the same behaviour the rollers don't look too bad, neither to the springs, cup things that go on the springs on faces of the gear or clutch housing. unless they are very sensitive. There are no deep scores or marks (the spacer plate has wear) or anything.

Not going to chance another 2nd hand part on this, burnt on the one i just bought. the two parts new are about 400 which makes it all a bit uneconomic...


Offline tobyd

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Re: Ticking noise
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2018, 09:27:00 PM »
Ate it and bought a new starter clutch. JB welded the two loose-but-whole (arf arf) magnets back onto my 'new' rotor and let set for a week. reassembled, dark and late so i'll test it tomorrow once the batteries 100% charged.

Old rotor toasted.

Starter spins doesn't do anything weird when let spin disconnected from the starter gear so I don't think its that.