Author Topic: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question  (Read 504 times)

Offline JaxGS500

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2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« on: February 18, 2020, 10:09:20 PM »
New here. Just picked up a ‘02 with 16k, possibly “rode hard and put up wet”... All there and in one piece. Hoping a tuneup will get it up and running. Watched the YT video on checking the valve clearance. Both intakes at .0045, right exhaust at .008 BUT zero clearance on the left exhaust. I should have the valve shim tool tomorrow and will update this post when I have the shim out and measured. Hoping I won’t have to pull the head BUT, if I do will that mean pulling the engine first? BTW, found and bought a Factory Service Manual that will be here within the next week. Any thoughts or comments at this point are appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 11:33:12 PM by JaxGS500 »

Offline HPP8140

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2020, 12:17:23 AM »
I purchased a 2002 with 14k mi where the valve adjustments had been neglected as well. Usually, it's the left exhaust that suffers. I dropped down 3 shim sizes to gain max clearance. I've purchased a couple GS500s like this...the engine has been ok, but that valve will wear faster than the others. I now have 70k on the bike and am using the smallest shim 210 on the left exhaust...I should safely be able to get to 75k...then I'll see how long it lasts.

In conclusion, you should still be able to get good life out of the motor.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2020, 12:36:11 PM »
Wonder why the left exhaust goes bad ? If you idled it on the kick stand, the left will have more oil puddle on top but likely have lower flow rate due to the exhaust having an extra bend.
BTW on my 48K mile bike I had no pattern, but I seemed to slowly need thicker shims. But it was barely 2-3 sizes up in 40K I had it. It just used a ton of oil almost from the word go. a quart between changes at 10k to a quart every 300 miles at 48k.
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Offline HPP8140

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2020, 12:44:50 AM »
Guess I've gotten used to the oil consumption as well, especially at highway speeds 70mph rpm => 7k. I top off every 200mi...oil is below the dipstick line.

Offline JaxGS500

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2020, 06:10:38 PM »
My Amazon order got screwed up (not my usual experience with them thankfully) so, hopefully the valve shim tool will be here today. I read somewhere that someone just uses a screwdriver to force the shim holder down and wedges another to hold it down while they get the shim out but I think I'll wait for the tool.
On another subject; the security verification needed to post a thread or comment seems like a lot of steps, i.e., copy the 6 letters (that can barely be made out) then answer GS questions that a neophyte to the model may or may not know..., I'm hoping once I've established that I'm a real GS500 owner (I am indeed), and I'm not some kind of robot and maybe have some posts/comments up that it might get easier (or does it?).
Anyway, once I get that shim out I'll report in and probably ask for some help on what shim size I'll be needing going forward. And thanks to both my responses to this post for the encouraging replies.
Now it's time to try and get this posted, aarrrgghhh.

Offline JaxGS500

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2020, 07:03:16 PM »
215. That's the shim size that I removed. Where do I go from there? Is 210 the smallest size 29.5mm shim available? If not then what would you suggest? At this point I'm trying to avoid doing a valve job... BTW, the Motion Pro valve shim tool worked but I did end up putting a small punch on the opposite side to take the tool out for clearance while I removed the shim, no hassle and I'm sure it beat removing the cam like some have done

Offline The Buddha

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2020, 12:45:02 PM »
I don't think they are made thinner than 215. Its at the service limit from what I remember.
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Offline HPP8140

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2020, 07:40:16 PM »
Wow, sorry to hear...that is such a small shim for a low mileage bike.

I am using the 29mm shims, which go down to 200, but I don't do high revs over 8k.

https://newmotorcycleparts.net/motor_parts/valve_shims.html

Offline JaxGS500

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2020, 12:11:15 AM »
The Buddha: It would appear you may be right. I seem to have found a29.5mmx2.05mm on eBay. I've forwarded a message to the seller to please confirm dimensions and also asked if they might have anything smaller than 2.05 (if that is indeed accurate...). I also came across a eSeller with a 2.10 listed, need to find that listing again though. And then there's HPP8140's comment,
HPP8140: I'm encouraged by your idea to use a 29.0 size shim to achieve the clearance whilst keeping the revs in check. How long have you run a 29.0 shim. BTW, before removing the shim that needs replacing, even with zero clearance I was able to rotate the bucket (?) so it would appear that might bode well if...?
You may be wondering why I don't just do a valve job and fresh rings and be done with it. I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm a lifelong motorcyclist, I'll be 70 next month and since August of last year when I was diagnosed I've been battling throat cancer (never a smoker and not much of a drinker). Treatment's not going as I'd hoped, sold my Moto Guzzi Quota as soon as I found out and have been wanting to get on two wheels regardless of where this goes and this GS came along for $150. I absolutely need to watch every penny and so I'm hoping the valve adjustment yields enough compression to move forward with a routine tuneup and some other simple maintenance so that I can get some rides in before I..., well we'll see what happens.
Grateful for this forum and your help, the only other Suzukis I've owned were both two strokes, a '70 T500 and a 78 (and a "half") RM250C2. Most of my bikes have been Triumphs, BMWs and Moto Guzzis, all distant memories now.


Offline The Buddha

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2020, 02:33:15 PM »
I really would not use the 29mm dia shim, it could get out and you'd be in a bigger soup. Yea 8K is fine likely safer, but I still wont use it except in the shortest term - like around the block to know the motor runs.
Its a Yamaha shim, the 215 thickness is also service limit for a reason. You have the risk of wearing the valve's softer un hardenend material and hence wears out even faster.

If you must use a thinner shim than the 215 - I would look into companies who will make them in the correct diameter and material - I know of 1 in Oregon who makes starter clutches for Yamaha raptors among others. But machine shops with hardening capability are your best bet. My being in Nascar country may make it easier for me, but its still a simple dimension and material item. Look for someone who can do that.

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Offline herennow

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2020, 08:39:31 PM »
As a back country fix just file the end of your valve stem down a bit. Would have to at least remove cams though.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2020, 09:38:46 PM »
As a back country fix just file the end of your valve stem down a bit. Would have to at least remove cams though.

That on this head is much much much harder to do cos the vales are down in the bucket - a hole about 1" diameter and they are 1/4 to 1/2" below the surface. But yes its doable, the trick is to get it smooth enough and flat enough that it makes nice even contact with the under side of the bucket and not tear and gouge each other to bits. I'd almost be tempted to rig up a cylinder to case clamp setup allowing you to take off the head without disturbing the base gasket seal, and even if you remove the cyls, don't touch the rings or cyl and you can reuse all if it, but you're likely going to need new valves, I think yours has a manufacturing defect where they made it out of cheese.

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Offline HPP8140

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2020, 02:20:21 AM »
I would not recommend, but I have used the 29mm shim for 15k miles now...spoke to various dealership mechanics that would not do the valve stem trick but said it should be ok using the smaller shim even though I shared my concern about throwing a shim.

Yes, being able to rotate the bucket is a good sign that you had some clearance.

Offline 1018cc

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2020, 07:58:08 AM »
When I need shims I use precision shims as they are "local" to me. Prices are expensive when you consider postage but they've never given me any problems, the correct dia and thickness turns up to my door very quickly and they have 29.5mm diameter shims from 1.4mm to 4.5mm in thickness in 0.02mm increments. I'd consider the price is small for piece of mind that the correct diameter is installed.

http://www.precisionshims.com.au/products/flat

The link to the flat shims are the ones that suit the Gs500 and what I used to put in mine before I sold it.

Once you start going so thin I'd be worried about getting the shim out next time it needs to be changed if it starts sitting down in the bucket with no edge to help you get it out.

At least you now have an option.

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Offline The Buddha

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2020, 01:01:25 PM »
When I need shims I use precision shims as they are "local" to me. Prices are expensive when you consider postage but they've never given me any problems, the correct dia and thickness turns up to my door very quickly and they have 29.5mm diameter shims from 1.4mm to 4.5mm in thickness in 0.02mm increments. I'd consider the price is small for piece of mind that the correct diameter is installed.

http://www.precisionshims.com.au/products/flat

The link to the flat shims are the ones that suit the Gs500 and what I used to put in mine before I sold it.

Once you start going so thin I'd be worried about getting the shim out next time it needs to be changed if it starts sitting down in the bucket with no edge to help you get it out.

At least you now have an option.

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That isn't a problem really, the bucket has a step that's level with the floor. As in the entire shim is above it and there is a groove around the edge both to let you get a tweezer under it as well as to hold oil to not really allow metal on metal.
Now good to know they make em down to 1.4mm - I guess someone should buy a 1.4 through 2.15 and make a "kit" like we had 10-15 yrs ago, but then again that kit disappeared without a trace so its likely gonna suffer the same fate.
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Offline JaxGS500

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2020, 09:37:51 PM »
With all that said, and I do very much appreciate all the input, I'll be ordering up two 29mm shims in 2.00mm and 2.05mm sizes today and posting the progress upon their arrival and installation.
I am aware that the valve itself may be stretched or the seat recessed which could be the issue but without taking the engine out and removing the head there is no sure way to tell and this will at least be the least costly way to move forward in just trying to see if I can get it running and a little riding in this year. If my health improves and the bike runs and holds up then next fall may see me "do it right".

Offline The Buddha

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2020, 11:45:50 AM »
The seat and back side of the valve will wear, the valve will not stretch. In ideal circumstances, the seat and valve wear making it need thinner shim, the top of the stem, the cam etc wear making you need thicker shims and they nearly cancel each other out.
IMHO a bike that's at 215 and under with only 14K is really got a manufacturing defect in the valve most likely. I think 02 was the year they started making these in spain right ? Keep an eye on it, you shouldn't be wearing it nearly noticeably.
I had a 8k bike I don't know when its valves where checked - but they had been by some gorilla who put a crow's feet type scratch in the cam. My mechanic friend did an adjustment at 15K, then I did my first one closer to 22k, and all the way to 48k, the shims got thicker, but very very slowly. I barely went from 250-255 in that scratched up right intake one, and the rest all were 1 size or less thicker from 15K to 48K. Oh this bike was run hard, as a commuter, crashed 7 times atleast after I got it, and 8k to 48k took just about 10 yrs. It used 1qt between changes at 15k and would run through 1qt in 300 miles at 48k. I had K&N and pipe on it from 28k or so.

Keep an eye on this, and it may be better to get the head to a shop if you need to buy shims under 2.00. Because if the valve wears so much that it gets under the seat, the action of the cam to open the valve could result in the valve stem breaking or knocking out the seat. That will mean you need to replace pistons and possibly even have a cyl you may lose or even the crank.

I have a good car engine guy I have had to bike motors I can have do this pretty cheap, but look around for a good shop in your area as well.

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Offline JaxGS500

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2020, 10:04:43 PM »
It's been a hectic March but I have an update. I got the 29mm shims in 2.05 and 2.00 (if you recall the no clearance 29.5 shim was 2.15). I went ahead and put the 2.00 shim in and rotated the crank a few times before checking to see what the clearance was going to be..., still NO clearance! arrggghh. So I thought I'd do a compression test "just to see" what that was.

NOT good at all; Left cylinder, the side with no clearance on the exhaust valve, was 70. The right cylinder was 105, still NOT good. From the forum I've deduced that a minimum should be 145 at the least.
 
So I decided I'd have to take the top end off. I mean what else could I do, right? It didn't appear to have ever been off. Glad I'd purchased a factory service manual. It said the head could be taken off without having to remove the engine from the frame. It DIDN'T say that there'd only be about 1/16th clearance but with a little help from my grandson I got it off without having to remove the engine from the frame or dinking anything up. So far so good even though I'd really been hoping I wasn't going to have to take it apart like that. So...

With the head off everything actually didn't look too bad, at least nothing looked catastrophic (if I can figure out how to post some pics later I will). I've got everything bagged and/or tagged. Left the cylinder on just so I didn't have EVERYTHING crank up off but I know I'll be going there before reinstalling the head (you know the drill; remove cylinder block, pistons, mic everything, hone the bores, clean the piston's ring lands, new rings and that's if there's no need for a re-bore).

I want to get a valve spring compressor tool and then I'll have a better idea of what the valves and valve seats look like. I'm not going to doing any head work myself so I'll be looking for a good machinist familiar with motorcycle experience.

Anybody know of a good shop within a 100 miles of Reno that is competent and won't cost me an arm and a leg??? My goal is to get the top end back to spec, maybe a 3 angle valve job, might need valves, guides, springs, etc but won't know for sure until I can get the valves out and do some measuring.

That's it for now, any suggestions, comments, helpful advise is much appreciated as I move forward with getting my GS500 back on the road...

Offline user11235813

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2020, 04:17:36 AM »
Wonder why the left exhaust goes bad ?

For me it's the front right, after 70k kms the intakes and front left are holding at .06 the front right is holding at .1, although I will be checking again this week. I don't often ride about 7k rpm
 
But I will be checking again soon.

Offline JaxGS500

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Re: 2002 GS500 valve clearance question
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2020, 05:27:15 PM »
The methodical disassembly continues but I'm getting close to my limited abilities and need to start looking ahead so I can started on the reassembly sooner rather than later so...
I'm going to keep this thread going for now but I think I'm going to start another thread soon regarding looking for a shop or service that I can get my cylinder head refurbished once I've got the valves out and measurements taken. That's probably when I'll take the cylinder block and pistons off and measured as well. Then it'll be off to the media blaster and machinist/shop for that work. I'm hoping to get good work done right, done at affordable costs and done quick but I really won't know until I get things fully apart. I hate that it's dragging along but slow and steady is where I'm at right now...
Any thoughts on where I'm at and how I'm doing so far, etc, is appreciated.