Author Topic: Clutch basket widened, or...?  (Read 236 times)

Offline denav

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Clutch basket widened, or...?
« on: April 24, 2020, 10:56:42 AM »
(warning it is gonne be a long post imo)

Hello guys!

Last year a few weeks before i was about to park my bike down for winter, i noticed a knocking noise had started going on on my bike during riding home.

I took it to the local Suzuki service station, where i left it for a week and the guy told me without having it disassabmled, that the clutch basket is widened, or the springs might have weakened.
After telling this to me he pushed his finger in the oil measure hole and has been making some knocking noise. He said i need a new basket (brand new ~300 or used from a wreck ~100) + friction discs and springs and the gasket (+ service cost).

The knocking itself occurs in lower rpms, up till ~3000 RPM. I paste a video here about it.

Here are some other videos while running still :
Right side
Left side
Left side + another problem???
So as you can hear, there is a knocking noise which was named as clutch basket widening by the service guy.
Also you heard that rpm dropped after i pulled the gas a bit ( i believe it was due to having the same fuel from last winter right before i parked the bike, and i barely made a mile taking it home from the garage as you can see on mile counter).
And while listening from the side i can also hear some other sound like air leaking or smth but i am not sure, maybe i have not noticed it before... :confused:

So i thought i would save some money on repairing by making it by myself, since i do not find this as hard as a brain operation, connecting it with an oil filter and oil change. The only thing i can not find, how to change the basket itself. (I found couple of videos changing the discs and springs but not the basket itself.)

I would like you to give me your honest opinion about the sound of the bike, what could be the problem, is the service guy right or not, should i really change the basket or the discs+spring+gasket(+oil of course) change could be enough, or tips, tricks, suggestions, part recommendation or anything that could help me solve this issue.

Thank you in advance!
GS 2005 FU

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2020, 01:12:50 PM »
The basket in riveted onto the drive gear off the crank. It can wear itself egg shaped to the point it rattles.
I have heard of it happening, but never on a stock GS. You may be better off buying a used good one.
Cool.
Buddha.
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Offline denav

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2020, 03:18:42 PM »
You mean that the basket could deform to cause that noise, or the crank?
As i look in the oil-level hole, i can't see any deformation. But i can rotate it in back and forth around 1mm or so, and that causes some noise, i believe the service guy did the same. Is it normal to move around so, or it should be immobile?

Also, it is the #1 on this part list and picture:
https://oem-parts.hu/en/parts/suzuki/2005/gs500f-k5-p02p19p24p54/17-clutch - right?
GS 2005 FU

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2020, 03:47:31 PM »
No basket isn't deforming. The riveted part is steel rivets in a steel gear on the back side and aluminum clutch basket on the front side. Those rivets and rivet holes have worn each other out - likely the basket has worn those holes into egg shaped.
Please take it apart and inspect - and buy a good clutch basket if it is the issue - like I said on a GS - that's not been hopped up - I have not seen this happen.

How many miles ? Has it been modified ?

And that clutch basket was carried over form the GS1000 wasn't it - Can someone confirm ?
Maybe the racers and modders who have pushed the power higher - have you had it wear the basket holes.

I see racers put Kevlar clutches with extra plates etc etc, no one destroys a basket - AFAIK.

Cool.
Buddha.
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Offline The Buddha

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2020, 03:54:56 PM »
You mean that the basket could deform to cause that noise, or the crank?
As i look in the oil-level hole, i can't see any deformation. But i can rotate it in back and forth around 1mm or so, and that causes some noise, i believe the service guy did the same. Is it normal to move around so, or it should be immobile?

Also, it is the #1 on this part list and picture:
https://oem-parts.hu/en/parts/suzuki/2005/gs500f-k5-p02p19p24p54/17-clutch - right?



That rotation is not the issue. See if the basket will move outward - away from the gear that mates to the crank. I suspect its not your problem. This is not a common occurance in a GS but of course who knows, the quality of these spain made bikes has been pretty suspect.
Cool.
Buddha.
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Offline denav

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2020, 05:59:09 PM »
I see. So you mean the same like this here?

I meant rotating it , not moving if away from the crank.

I bought this bike 3 years ago, it was not modified by me (except clutch and brake lever), but i have had some interesting issues with it. For example it has 42222 km as you can see on 1st video, i bought it with 27k on clock, and i had to change brake disc and pads on the front and the brake service man told me it is not usual to change them at this ridden distance..., before that i had oil tipping from the left cover, due to bad, glued gasket... so i do not know the past of this bike, i bought it with repaired fairings and with missing paint on side and surface damaged right side SUZUKI cover. The previous owner was a lawyer and had a fall on the street turning in on tram rails. But since i did not have more money, i bought it and since then i have to renew something on it and make it better /nicer or another problem occurs...

I did not rip it at all, i use it to get to work, and used it for weekend trips and on highway from university to my home. So that is why it surprised my last year, cause i did not have any issue during last year, especially that it was in service at the starting of the season, about a year ago: had valve clearence set and changed (it did not have the original suzuki parts in there... :dunno_black:), carburetors cleaned and synchronized.
GS 2005 FU

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2020, 06:22:30 PM »
No, I've swapped brake pads @ 10K and rotor and pads @ 20K miles. A lot of commuting can kill those in a hurry, even worse if you didn't lube the slider pins. So I'd say 27K KM isn't unusual.
I'll have to look that video clips over tonight when I'm on my home laptop instead of work laptop.
Cool.
Buddha.
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Offline denav

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2020, 01:24:04 PM »
So could you check on the videos?
GS 2005 FU

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2020, 10:58:10 PM »
Yea that noise sounds about what I'd think - the moving outward is a extreme condition.
I think this bike has 6 or 8 pins not 3. But I've never heard of this happening on the GS though. Its a massive clutch for only 40hp.
You are able to rotate it and watch the thing move thought the oil filler hole ?

Cool.
Buddha.
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Offline denav

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2020, 05:33:29 PM »
Alright, so i have managed to disassamble this clutch problem.

I paste here the videos and pictures i took.

First lets start with the rotating noise, here it is:
I can move it with my hands, guess the holes are widened around the screws inside, like you (Buddha) said.
 

The second video here, is what i found right after removing the springs is that the washer is broken.
IMO it was cause by the widened hole, making the whole basket move back and forth up and down, which caused the washer to hit the spring baskets/clutch pressure disc, however, i did not find any sign of this, because the spring basket / clutch pressure disc is absolutely fine and untouched, as you can see in this video below.

Finally, i made some measurements about the plates and the springs.

The plates are in acceptable size ( according to service manual 2,92-3,08 mm) :3.00 mm thick.
You can check it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dea4qFS85WT1t9hJOAHv27MzXyw68I3e/view?usp=sharing
The springs are not so fine imo, they are a bit loose ( according to service manual they should be 60,8 mm) : 62,9 mm long.
You can check it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ds8IGJw2-4DrFY81RBzbv6nX2jxhqDTP/view?usp=sharing

So i could not move ahead, because i do not know how to take off the screw in front of the broken washer. As you can see on this image below, i have managed to flatten it out a bit, but i am not sure how could i take the clutch basket down itself, to check the holes behind it. Could you give me a tip?
You can check it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1diW11qjke-M3ZPDLTxSa8IWkkxwmxumO/view?usp=sharing
GS 2005 FU

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2020, 12:05:07 PM »
Clutch holder or socket on an air impact wrench.
I have also used a penny to jam between the engine drive gear and the clutch gear and used a socket and hand ratchet. Don't recommend this but it has worked for me before.
Cool.
Buddha.
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Offline denav

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2020, 04:52:38 PM »
I have managed to get the screw off by putting it into gear, and pushing a stick threw the rear wheel and making a smooth turn on the screw.

So, i have found that the clutch basket is making this noise due to a smaller cogwheel's holding pin behind the main basket itself. You can see that here:

After that i was looking for any other damage on the parts in the bike, and i found one scratch under shitfing mechanism, and quite interesting shaped screws below it. Watch it here:

So could any of these produce this high knocking presented in the first post??
GS 2005 FU

Offline The Buddha

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Re: Clutch basket widened, or...?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2020, 06:01:20 PM »
I am not sure. Those single pin type things are not supposed to be super tight.
Your problem likely is the rivets holding the basket to the gear behind it. Just my guess. That play seems normal. But look for signs of wear on both the pin and the gear.
Cool.
Buddha.
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