Author Topic: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues  (Read 551 times)

Offline maverickfhs

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2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« on: June 29, 2020, 05:06:06 PM »
Recently acquired a project 2006 GS500 and dealing with few issues in terms of ranking order:

1-Able to start the bike, but once started it starts to smoke and then smoke increases really bad and eventually it shuts off - while this is happening overflow tube from air filter breather hose is spewing gas/oil mixture. Could it be overfilled oil or stuck carbs? I removed the screw to drain the carbs and both were drained and fresh fuel was put into the tank

2-When clutch lever is pressed in, seems like has no tension, top clutch side bolt is all the way in, played with the bottom(shifter) adjustment but no luck, what else I can check to increase the tension?

That was the feedback from the owner to whom I purchased it from: It has been sitting for ~18mo. Tried starting. The engine starts but quickly gets rough and white smoke comes out of exhaust. Left-side sparkplug gets oily-black so I pulled it, replaced, engine ran better but ultimately ended up doing the same thing. Already tried adjusting mixture so it is something else.

Appreciate all the help and insights on 1 and 2.  :bowdown:

Offline mr72

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2020, 03:26:06 AM »
If it has been sitting for 18 months you will need to drain the tank completely and also pull the cabs and refresh them.

See my blog post about this: https://joshkarnes.blogspot.com/2017/09/fixing-common-gs500-carburetor-issues.html?m=1

While the tank is off, drain it. Refuel with ethanol-free fuel.

Adjust the carbs according to this blog. Don't skip steps. Go ahead and spend the $50. Get all the parts before you start. Replace all of the o rings (ALL!) and the intake boot o-rings. Replace the float valves (needles) because this is one of the root causes of your problem.

And change the oil and filter.

Put a new OEM type paper air filter in. Put new spark plugs.

Look, you're resurrecting a motorcycle that's been sitting ages.

This will take you a half of a Saturday and cost $100 including the oil and filter change and all of the carb parts and o-rings. Then you will be in a much better place to assess the condition of the motorcycle.

Right now there can be so many things wrong you would be wasting your time trying to diagnose. Just make the carbs right, change the fuel, oil and plugs, then start from there.

I know this doesn't feel like I am addressing your issues but believe me this is the fastest, cheapest and most certain method to get your GS on the road. You're either going to do this now and get it overwith or you are going to argue with yourself and others about it and try to piecemeal it out over months until you've done 10x as much work and spent twice as much money and still have to do it. Just do it the right way first.

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2020, 05:34:41 AM »
If it has been sitting for 18 months you will need to drain the tank completely and also pull the cabs and refresh them.

Yes, that's what was done drained all old fuel from tank(left tank in the sun on a 100 degree), carbs float bowls, cleaned air filter(paper and OEM), added ethanol free fuel and techron and it started up fine, but smoking and that's the same description which PO shared.

Quote
See my blog post about this: https://joshkarnes.blogspot.com/2017/09/fixing-common-gs500-carburetor-issues.html?m=1

Adjust the carbs according to this blog. Don't skip steps. Go ahead and spend the $50. Get all the parts before you start. Replace all of the o rings (ALL!) and the intake boot o-rings. Replace the float valves (needles) because this is one of the root causes of your problem.

And change the oil and filter.

Yes, thank you. Carbs are the next thing along with an oil change, spark plugs are new.

Any thoughts on the clutch cable having no tension?  Thank you  :bowdown:

Offline mr72

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2020, 05:45:02 AM »
Clutch cable may be broken, may be the wrong cable. Take the sprocket cover off and inspect the end of the cable that goes into the engine housing.

Search here for "two point clutch adjustment". There's a critical adjustment of the lock screw/push rod that can't be compensated at the lever. So once you confirm the cable is the right one and not broken, do this adjustment procedure. Otherwise maybe the clutch springs are shot or it's stuck? IDK haven't been into the clutch. Someone who knows a lot more will be along shortly, I'm sure.

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2020, 05:53:24 AM »
Thank you mr72, was looking at your blog in the last few days :)  :thumb:

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2020, 10:44:59 AM »
Clutch cable may be broken, may be the wrong cable. Take the sprocket cover off and inspect the end of the cable that goes into the engine housing.

Search here for "two point clutch adjustment". There's a critical adjustment of the lock screw/push rod that can't be compensated at the lever. So once you confirm the cable is the right one and not broken, do this adjustment procedure. Otherwise maybe the clutch springs are shot or it's stuck? IDK haven't been into the clutch. Someone who knows a lot more will be along shortly, I'm sure.

One more thing, is there a way to bring idle speed knob back to default position? Not sure if it's messed up?  :cheers:

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2020, 02:32:45 PM »
Which kit will have all the orings and you said $50 for all parts? Could you please elaborate, removing the carbs right now.

Replace all of the o-rings with new ones. In particular, you need the float o-rings, float needle seat o-rings, "little o-rings" from the diaphragm covers that go under the vacuum ports, and new pilot needle o-rings. You can order these parts cheap here: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_dr350_orings.html (yes the DR350 has the same carb as GS500)

Offline mr72

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2020, 03:14:06 PM »
no kit. You just order the parts you need individually. Intake boot o rings are likely a dealer part.

Default position of idle speed knob is all the way loose.

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2020, 05:31:54 PM »
no kit. You just order the parts you need individually. Intake boot o rings are likely a dealer part.

Default position of idle speed knob is all the way loose.
Removed carburetor and have cleaned all passage and jets, they were already clean(mostly):



Should I just tighten up and assemble everything as it was removed or have to adjust any float needle heights or something?

I have this exact same issue, along with lots of blue smoke coming from the exhaust
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 05:33:02 PM by maverickfhs »

Offline mr72

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2020, 03:44:22 AM »
It's useful to verify float height once you get new float valves and seats. It can stave off other issues.

Then just put it back together like it came apart. Remember to not spray any carb cleaner on the partially assembled carb, especially not the diaphragm.

Now that you have the carbs off you can pull the intake boots and verify you need new intake boot o-rings. 99% chance you do. Unless some previous owner changed them and didn't tell you, you need new ones.

A hint on putting it back together, it is a lot easier to get the airbox to connect to the carbs by pushing the rubber boots on from inside the airbox with the air filter out. You can feel with your fingers whether it's seated. I basically always have to seat one and quickly tighten the hose clamp, then do the other one. I can't get them both to line up and stay put long enough to tighten the hose clamps, even though I have gone to great lengths to try and get the airbox to align correctly with the carbs including heat-gunning and reshaping the front edge, tried gluing in the rubber part, you name it. It's like the airbox was designed for an entirely different bike.

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2020, 06:19:31 AM »
It's useful to verify float height once you get new float valves and seats. It can stave off other issues.

Looking at the manual 14.6 + 1.0mm, is this a correct float height?

Quote
Remember to not spray any carb cleaner on the partially assembled carb, especially not the diaphragm.

That's ONE of the most valuable advice and was SUPER careful as it'll eat the rubber!

Quote
A hint on putting it back together, it is a lot easier to get the airbox to connect to the carbs by pushing the rubber boots on from inside the airbox with the air filter out. You can feel with your fingers whether it's seated. I basically always have to seat one and quickly tighten the hose clamp, then do the other one. I can't get them both to line up and stay put long enough to tighten the hose clamps, even though I have gone to great lengths to try and get the airbox to align correctly with the carbs including heat-gunning and reshaping the front edge, tried gluing in the rubber part, you name it. It's like the airbox was designed for an entirely different bike.
Thank you and will follow the advise and help  :bowdown:

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2020, 05:44:09 PM »
Think a bad news, drained the oil and it was EXTREMELY thin and had a lot of gas mixed in it, which means gas was leaking inside the chamber possibly and hence blue smoke and from air filter body overflow.

What's the probability of engine being shot or toast? Float height needs to be adjusted and that's the reason(possible) for the overflow, planning to do a compression test after putting the carbs back on.

Anything which can be done as a precautionary measure or too late?  :dunno_white:

Offline mr72

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 05:11:10 AM »
It's probably fine. Mine did the same thing, I rode only about 40 miles on it while it was misbehaving, but it's fine after.

Sticking float needles could be the root cause, but could be rich mixture or sticking slide or other things too. You'll figure it out when you get the carbs back together and set right.

Offline The Buddha

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2020, 06:14:32 AM »
Yea gas in oil isn't fatal usually unless its catches fire. It cleans the innards good. Some seals especially paper gaskets may have to be replaced - check if they leak after you clean it all out and get fresh clean oil in it.
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Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2020, 06:28:14 AM »
It's probably fine. Mine did the same thing, I rode only about 40 miles on it while it was misbehaving, but it's fine after.

Sticking float needles could be the root cause, but could be rich mixture or sticking slide or other things too. You'll figure it out when you get the carbs back together and set right.

I suspect it was float heights since they were showing less than 10mm for both sides.

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2020, 06:13:16 PM »
Assembled everything and started the motorcycle after adding fresh engine oil.

For some reason it started at 8000-9000 rpm  :2guns: think I have either incorrectly connected throttle cables or some other issue  :sad:

Validated float heights with U tube too, on the bright side there's no gas/oil coming out of airbox breather tube(right next to rear brake pedal).

2 questions, please:

1- It's still burning oil(blue smoke), what else could it be?

2-White knob to adjust idle, pushed it all the way in and then  back it out by 3 turns, is it right or something else need to be done for it? Any other advise for such rpms at start?


Thanks again  :bowdown: :bowdown:

Offline mr72

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2020, 08:07:45 PM »
that idle adjuster? You should loosen it all the way. I think you may be confusing it with the instructions for the idle mixture needles. And for those turns out is probably too much. 2.5 should be a good starting point. But this is why it is idling at 9k.

Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2020, 08:21:56 PM »
that idle adjuster? You should loosen it all the way. I think you may be confusing it with the instructions for the idle mixture needles. And for those turns out is probably too much. 2.5 should be a good starting point. But this is why it is idling at 9k.

Thanks again, so far haven't been able to see idle mixture needles and have not touched them. Yes white knob idle adjuster had 3 turns and have completely loosened it up now and will start again tomorrow.

Any thoughts on the blue smoke and once the smoke starts it dies down and shuts itself off?  :bowdown:

Offline The Buddha

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2020, 05:09:02 AM »
Blue smoke can be from the gas that gets oil too thin and every where its not supposed to be - like through the valve stem seals.
Get it carbureted properly - yea 3 turns is not for the throttle stop screw, and why haven't you pulled the caps off the fuel mixture screws ???
Don't refer to things as needle - there are 2 needles in the bike, float needle - which really is not a needle more of a stopper, and the slide needle which is a proper needle with a taper than does metering.
The fuel mixture screw is a tapered obstruction in a fuel passage - which is actually what the slide needle also is - however we call the fuel mixture screw - well the fuel mixture screw.
The air jets are in the filter mouth and we do not touch them except to make sure they're clean.
Pilot jet and main jet and mid mains complete the fuel fittings. We like to have access to all of these, they all come into play at one stage or another.

So get it set correctly, you're getting there, and get a few heat cycles in. Blue smoke wont shut it down, in fact as it gets hotter the bike will run better if it is some type of sealing issue cos heat makes these all swell up and seal up.

Cool.
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Offline maverickfhs

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Re: 2006 GS500 ALL Issues
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2020, 05:40:01 AM »
Blue smoke can be from the gas that gets oil too thin and every where its not supposed to be - like through the valve stem seals.
Get it carbureted properly - yea 3 turns is not for the throttle stop screw, and why haven't you pulled the caps off the fuel mixture screws ???
Don't refer to things as needle - there are 2 needles in the bike, float needle - which really is not a needle more of a stopper, and the slide needle which is a proper needle with a taper than does metering.
The fuel mixture screw is a tapered obstruction in a fuel passage - which is actually what the slide needle also is - however we call the fuel mixture screw - well the fuel mixture screw.
The air jets are in the filter mouth and we do not touch them except to make sure they're clean.
Pilot jet and main jet and mid mains complete the fuel fittings. We like to have access to all of these, they all come into play at one stage or another.

So get it set correctly, you're getting there, and get a few heat cycles in. Blue smoke wont shut it down, in fact as it gets hotter the bike will run better if it is some type of sealing issue cos heat makes these all swell up and seal up.

Cool.
Buddha.

Thanks again GURU, should I drill them out?  What's the easiest way to remove the caps?  Found a thread :http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58475.0

Any suggestions on removing brass caps?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 05:46:02 AM by maverickfhs »

 

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