06 500F Rebuild - Brakes?

[Medic1121]

So I rebuilt a crashed (several times from the look of it) 06 GS500F over the winter.

Project turned out well, repaired the shredded plastic, replaced bent bars and missing pieces and added frame and bar end sliders and a decent air filter.  I also replaced the springs with Race Tech springs that were appropriate for my weight and put Pirelli Sport Demon tires on.  Bike runs and handles well, takes a lot of RPM's for the thrill factor to set in, but cornering is very good.

The only thing I find very much wanting after finishing the project is the braking ability.  I have no idea if it is normally substandard or if the components are just getting tired. The bike only has 8800 miles on it so it seems unlikely.

The braking system is completely stock.  I know there are sintered pads, stainless steel lines and different rotors available, and I will almost certainly work to improve the components this fall and winter.  If anyone has any insight on brakes for this bike, advice would be appreciated!

[0Bw4n]

Love the white color of the bike. One of my goals for mine is to replace some of the plastic (many of the mounting  brackets are broken) and do a pearl white paint with a blue stripe down the middle. Anyway, have you considered doing a fork swap to get dual front brakes? That was something else I was considering - but if there is a way to get a braking performance increase without doing a fork swap, I would love to know.

[adidasguy]

The GS500 brakes are more than adequate.
Possible things:
1. Air in the lines
2. Greasy pads
3. Greasy rotors
4. Bad front baster cylinder

Clean things well with brake cleaner. You might consider new pads.
If calipers have been removed, it is possible the pads are not seated exactly as they were before. So the wear patterns don't line up. That will take care of itself after the brakes are worn back in a little.

There is no need to do radical things like fork swaps just because your brakes aren't working right. Fix things back to they way the should be and you will be OK.

SS brake lines are a nice upgrade. That really improves the rear brake and does make the front brake firmer.
Other than that, stay stock. Stock rotors are great and last a long time.

[Mauricio]

The braking system is completely stock.  I know there are sintered pads, stainless steel lines and different rotors available, and I will almost certainly work to improve the components this fall and winter.  If anyone has any insight on brakes for this bike, advice would be appreciated!

What's your budget? That's the real limitation here.

Beringer makes a front caliper that will work with your bike, but they are stupid money.



You can buy these adapter brackets from SV Racing Parts that allow you to fit either GSXR750/SV1000 calipers or CBR calipers

http://www.svracingparts.com/products/#!/~/category/id=484220&offset=0&sort=normal

I have this setup on my GS, works great. The trick is finding a clean used caliper to mount on the brackets. Spend time on eBay and secure a clean unit.



But even just swapping the OEM caliper for a nearly identical Tokico sliding pin caliper will help. The AJPs that come stock really are a special kind of shitty, only surpassed in mediocrity by the even shittier OEM master cylinder.

[cc2]

are the sv brakes the same as the ones on the gs, hence the sv spacer?

[fleshpiston]

are the sv brakes the same as the ones on the gs, hence the sv spacer?

Yes, I believe they're the same


http://www.svracingparts.com/products/#!/~/category/id=484220&offset=0&sort=normal


They make two adapters, one for Nissin (CBR) and one for Tokico (GSXR) calipers, both will work with stock rotor

Give them a call, they might have just a right side only, that's what I did

[gsJack]

Medic1121, bring your stock GS brakes up to par like suggested by adidas before considering major mods.  If they are really below par I would suggest checking first for sticking front pin sliders as a cause, they can really cut your stopping power in half.  An 06 GS with only 8-9k miles on it has done a lot of sitting around, what a waste!   

I found the GS500 to have very good brakes for a bike in it's price class.  I traded a CB650SC Nighthawk in on my 97 first GS500 and thought the GS front brake was equivalent to the Nighthawk's twin disc front brakes in stopping power.  The GSs rear disc was far superior to the rear drums on the NH and 3 other old Hondas I previously had.  Once I had mastered that rear disc I use to say my GS had twin discs, one in the front and one in the rear, combined stopping power was excellent.  Never had any master cylinder problem on my 2 GSs putting a combined almost 180k miles on them.  80k on the 97 and ready to turn over 100k on my current 02.

The SV650 front caliper looks just like the GS pin slider front but the SV1000 Tokiko caliper had 4 pots, 2 sets of opposing pistons, that might be a good upgrade if needed.    I got rear ended once by a friend on a SV1000 but that was probably rider error.   

[Mauricio]

Medic1121, bring your stock GS brakes up to par like suggested by adidas before considering major mods.  If they are really below par I would suggest checking first for sticking front pin sliders as a cause, they can really cut your stopping power in half.  An 06 GS with only 8-9k miles on it has done a lot of sitting around, what a waste!   

I found the GS500 to have very good brakes for a bike in it's price class.  I traded a CB650SC Nighthawk in on my 97 first GS500 and thought the GS front brake was equivalent to the Nighthawk's twin disc front brakes in stopping power.  The GSs rear disc was far superior to the rear drums on the NH and 3 other old Hondas I previously had.  Once I had mastered that rear disc I use to say my GS had twin discs, one in the front and one in the rear, combined stopping power was excellent.  Never had any master cylinder problem on my 2 GSs putting a combined almost 180k miles on them.  80k on the 97 and ready to turn over 100k on my current 02.

The SV650 front caliper looks just like the GS pin slider front but the SV1000 Tokiko caliper had 4 pots, 2 sets of opposing pistons, that might be a good upgrade if needed.    I got rear ended once by a friend on a SV1000 but that was probably rider error.

I had two stock (AJP) master cylinders replaced under warranty. When the last one started giving me grief, I got a cheap Brembo master from some old Ducati. Zero problems.

My experience with AJP has been appalling. Not only the master cylinders, but the caliper itself.

[gsJack]

I had two stock (AJP) master cylinders replaced under warranty. When the last one started giving me grief, I got a cheap Brembo master from some old Ducati. Zero problems.

My experience with AJP has been appalling. Not only the master cylinders, but the caliper itself.

I was going to ask you about your previous AJP remark Mauricio but I didn't get back to it and forgot.  Thanks for posting about it again.   My 97 and 02 GSs were made before the GSs went to Spain for assembly and got AJP brake parts so I'm in the clear on the masters I guess.

Riding year around here in NE OH my calipers suffer more than anything else from the constant splashing thru salt water winters.  Both were in horrendous condition, almost impossible to get apart.  I found a pair of 09 calipers on eBay with less than 3k miles on them and the calipers and pads were like brand new and my brakes are functioning like new again and that's pretty good for my needs.  They came with Tokico HH front pads and SBS FF rears, a nice combo for the GS which I assume is what they put on the F models from Spain.  I used EBC HH pads on the rear 5-10 years ago but the milder FF ones are sufficient for an old man now.     Hope I'm not in for trouble with the AJP calipers, they look just like my previous 97 and 02 GS ones in design.

[Mauricio]

I had two stock (AJP) master cylinders replaced under warranty. When the last one started giving me grief, I got a cheap Brembo master from some old Ducati. Zero problems.

My experience with AJP has been appalling. Not only the master cylinders, but the caliper itself.

I was going to ask you about your previous AJP remark Mauricio but I didn't get back to it and forgot.  Thanks for posting about it again.   My 97 and 02 GSs were made before the GSs went to Spain for assembly and got AJP brake parts so I'm in the clear on the masters I guess.

Yup, that's why I made that remark on the other thread... "last year of the good ones"... 

I had an '01 E model, first bike I was able to afford new from a dealer. Not saying it was an RC30 in terms of build quality, but it was noticeably better than my '07 F model.

How else could it be? You take production to a country that has some of the highest labor costs in the World, build an entry-level bike, ship it across an ocean and try to sell it in a country where the exchange rate works against you. Of course they are going to have to cut corners somewhere.

Riding year around here in NE OH my calipers suffer more than anything else from the constant splashing thru salt water winters.  Both were in horrendous condition, almost impossible to get apart.  I found a pair of 09 calipers on eBay with less than 3k miles on them and the calipers and pads were like brand new and my brakes are functioning like new again and that's pretty good for my needs.

Yup, water and salt is a nasty combination for any bike. Hopefully your caliper will last a while, but mine gave trouble too. It was prone to rusting and the pin wouldn't slide. Luckily at the time I had a pair of Tokico sliding pin calipers coming off an SV650 and was able to use the RH side on the GS.

[Medic1121]

I use the bike as a "daily driver" since it is getting 50+mpg compared to my touring bike at 38-42.  I think the pads are well enough seated against the rotors since the rebuild, and everything is cleaned as Adidasguy suggested.  So based on what I'm hearing, the stock AJP brakes are below par in general.  Even if I put SS lines and sintered pads, it's probably only going to be marginally better since the master cyl is where the stopping starts.

[adidasguy]

For what its worth, around here we buy the newest front calipers from bike breakers. We get ones with low mileage where the pads are 80% still there. They go on all our bikes and we have no problems at all.
Front master cylinders - we buy what looks pretty. Never had issues. We do get some that are bad when we get them, but ones that are good to start with stay good.
Sure SS lines make the brakes firmer so that has become a standard upgrade for front and rear brakes.
So we find stock calipers and pads are just fine.
When you can get newer ones (2004+) with under 1000 miles on them for $20 or less, it makes sense to do that rather than buy pads or rebuild older calipers.
Even Dora (the bike formerly known as Trey) went to the arctic circle and back with the newer calipers from a bike breaker.

.......and time for another cat.....

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[yamahonkawazuki]

If that isnt a testament to quality and a job well done, i just dont know what is lol 

[gsJack]

adidas' point on the Trey/Dora trip to the arctic with AJP calipers is well taken as yammi has pointed out.    Thanks for the input on your AJP brake experience Mauricio, but I was relieved to hear your problem with the caliper was a sticking pin slider.  I've put 190k miles on my 2 GSs without a hint of any salt water getting into the sliders, they are sealed off with those accordion type seals that are easily knocked loose if it's not all put together carefully.  AJP is same design as my early GS ones and so are the Tokico pin slider SV calipers.

I've only had one sticky pin slider in all my GS miles when I inadvertently put the wrong grease on the rubber bushed lower slider and wore out the front pads in 3k miles, I blame it on a senior moment, maybe those overpaid Spanish workers weren't as careful as they should have been?  By the way I just pulled out that swollen rubber bushing and used the bike w/o until I got one.  It clunked a bit in back and forth parking maneuvers and occasional low speed sharp bumps but braking performance was up to par, the pads seem to find their way into the wear grooves on their own with one end floating.     I remain unshaken in my belief in the GS brakes being very good for a bike in it's price class.