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1993 re-hashed

Started by Sporty, August 23, 2020, 06:09:33 PM

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Sporty

#140
Quote from: SK Racing on October 10, 2020, 05:44:07 AM
I've seen that kind of thing before. A sharp blow with a rubber mallet worked for me in the past and it didn't leak.

I've looked at a few photos since posting that ... and yeah, there is no additional retention clip.
Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

Sporty

Rehashed petcock re-installed.  The bike had 1/4" (6.5mm) hose stretched over the fittings. 




I wasn't real happy with that and put some nice 5/16" (8mm) Tygon fuel hose on it this time.

Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

Sporty

#142
The clutch switch is back together with the new contact installed in the clutch lever perch. The wires in the headlight bucket reconnected, the starter is working properly.
Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

Sporty

#143
Did a cold start and warm up, then rode it around the yard a bit. Riding like that, it sounds like a little tractor. It's seems to be running better at lower RPM but will need a little tuning. Maybe just the low speed mixture screw, it's lean off idle.

Lowered the shifter a notch. Having the shifter level with the foot peg, just seems awkward to shift. Maybe level with the peg is right for someone with shorter legs and smaller feet?


Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

Sporty

#144
It's just about done. The bike is certainly ready for state inspection and riding.

It needs a filler panel over the taillight.
One small rubber cushion for under the seat (on order).
Two little foam blocks for under the tank (will scrounge/substitute).

Some fresh photos... All back together












Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

SK Racing

Looks great. Well done. That is one lucky family member to have you around.

Btw, why are the front indicators on and not the rear?
You don't stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding!
1939 Panther 600cc Single - Stolen, 1970 Suzuki 50cc - Sold
1969 Triumph Bonneville 650 T120R - Sold, 1981 Honda CB750F - Sold
1989 Suzuki GS500E - Sold, 2004 Suzuki GS500F - Current ride

Sporty

Quote from: SK Racing on October 12, 2020, 10:44:32 PM
Looks great. Well done. That is one lucky family member to have you around.
N
Btw, why are the front indicators on and not the rear?

Thanks!

They've been converted to dual brightness LED,  running light and turn indicator/signal

From Post # 65

Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

SK Racing

Oh, yeah. I remember now you mentioned that. Good idea for better visibility.  :thumb:
You don't stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding!
1939 Panther 600cc Single - Stolen, 1970 Suzuki 50cc - Sold
1969 Triumph Bonneville 650 T120R - Sold, 1981 Honda CB750F - Sold
1989 Suzuki GS500E - Sold, 2004 Suzuki GS500F - Current ride

Sporty

#148
This is about the easiest repair so far.  The seat mount cushion arrived.  A little soap and it just pops in. Still available and still "made in Japan "







Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

Sporty

#149
So far nobody has come forward with a rear frame cover.  I'm just not spending $50 for a new one. It's just a small piece of plastic. 

The idea here is to make one out of some aluminum sheet metal.

I cut some narrow strips and and am experimenting with measurements and bends. The narrow strip is easier to work with.

Here is the first effort. The bends use up length and it's too short.

Once the length and bends are figured, I'll try a full width piece.








Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

Sporty

#150
I'd like to get that rear frame cover piece done before winterizing the bike, but do have to pay the bills.

New guides installed and valve seats cut. (Three angle)





Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

SK Racing

#151
Looks like the work of an expert.  :thumb:

What is the extra hole on the side for? Spark plug? Glow plug?

In a past life I've done the ports and valves/seats of my car engine (not three angle, though). It gave a few free extra horses and I wonder if it'll be a worthwhile exercise doing it on a GS500. 


Lat week I had to fork out a small fortune to have this fixed. (note the two spark plug holes)

You don't stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding!
1939 Panther 600cc Single - Stolen, 1970 Suzuki 50cc - Sold
1969 Triumph Bonneville 650 T120R - Sold, 1981 Honda CB750F - Sold
1989 Suzuki GS500E - Sold, 2004 Suzuki GS500F - Current ride

Sporty

Quote from: SK Racing on October 20, 2020, 07:40:21 AM
Looks like the work of an expert.  :thumb:

What is the extra hole on the side for? Spark plug? Glow plug?

In a past life I've done the ports and valves/seats of my car engine (not three angle, though). It gave a few free extra horses and I wonder if it'll be a worthwhile exercise doing it on a GS500. 


Lat week I had to fork out a small fortune to have this fixed. (note the two spark plug holes)



What head is that? I don't see four valve heads with two plugs.

The hole in the photo I posted is for an injector.  Gasoline Direct Injection has become fairly common In the last ten years or so.

As far as porting the GS500, I'm sure you can pick it up some.  It's really not bad tho, it's half a GS1000e

GS1000e was rated around 90 HP.
The GS500 is rated at 51 HP.




Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

SK Racing

Quote from: Sporty on October 20, 2020, 11:58:21 AM

What head is that? I don't see four valve heads with two plugs.

Alfa Romeo Twin Spark 2.0


Quote
The hole in the photo I posted is for an injector.  Gasoline Direct Injection has become fairly common In the last ten years or so.

I didn't know that.  ???


Quote
As far as porting the GS500, I'm sure you can pick it up some.  It's really not bad tho, it's half a GS1000e

GS1000e was rated around 90 HP.
The GS500 is rated at 51 HP.

That is already more than half of the liter bike. I read that without water cooling it's not easy to increase the power of a bike engine. 
You don't stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding!
1939 Panther 600cc Single - Stolen, 1970 Suzuki 50cc - Sold
1969 Triumph Bonneville 650 T120R - Sold, 1981 Honda CB750F - Sold
1989 Suzuki GS500E - Sold, 2004 Suzuki GS500F - Current ride

Sporty

Quote from: SK Racing on October 20, 2020, 01:17:55 PM

That is already more than half of the liter bike. I read that without water cooling it's not easy to increase the power of a bike engine.

You can increase the power dramatically. The cooling is a question of reliability. Do you want the power 1/4 mile at a time, or sustained high power output?

Suzuki pro-stock engine is based on the the GS1150.  It's bored and stroked to 1850 cc and it's still a 2 valve head and air cooled.  It makes 370 HP  on race gas.

That would be 100 HP out of 500cc.  It would cost a lot to to build and be very unpleasant to ride.

The port development is there, camshaft profiles available. Plenty of people know how to make big power from a 2 valve Suzuki.  However, power gains are usually a trade off. The power band is shifted up in RPM and driveabillity suffers.

A good carefull port job that kept airspeed up, more compression, a bit more cam (or different approach to the cam design) might make a workable street bike.   
Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

SK Racing

This may be an unfair question, but what modifications would you recommend for a bit of an increase in power for the standard GS500 engine? I've lost about 16% power due to the altitude where I live (1300m). It would be nice to get some of it back.

I've dumped the standard airbox and installed K&N style pod filters and fitted a slip-on muffler together with the suggested jet changes. The engine feels more lively and runs fine, so the jets seem to be OK.

Other than those changes, what can one do to get a little more power?
You don't stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding!
1939 Panther 600cc Single - Stolen, 1970 Suzuki 50cc - Sold
1969 Triumph Bonneville 650 T120R - Sold, 1981 Honda CB750F - Sold
1989 Suzuki GS500E - Sold, 2004 Suzuki GS500F - Current ride

Sporty

#156
Quote from: SK Racing on October 21, 2020, 02:05:54 PM
This may be an unfair question, but what modifications would you recommend for a bit of an increase in power for the standard GS500 engine? I've lost about 16% power due to the altitude where I live (1300m). It would be nice to get some of it back.

I've dumped the standard airbox and installed K&N style pod filters and fitted a slip-on muffler together with the suggested jet changes. The engine feels more lively and runs fine, so the jets seem to be OK.

Other than those changes, what can one do to get a little more power?

Disclaimer: I'm not a motorcycle mechanic and only work on my own bikes. The occasional motorcycle machining I do is a favor, not my specialty. I have never modified a Suzuki engine.

In general, the simplest compensation for altitude (less dense air) is more compression. If you can go up one point, from 9:1 to 10:1 compression, that would be an improvement.

To get there you have a few options, make the chamber smaller, by milling the head or welding.
Installing domed pistons and/ oversized pistons with domes.

Milling is cheapest and easiest, but with overhead cam engines and significant milling, you usually have to readjust cam timing and be mindful of chain slack.

Advancing the cam 2* and one point of compression should be noticeable.


I'm sure you can make more gains adding porting and camshafts with increased compression. Those mods typically move the powerband up in RPM.
Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

SK Racing

#157
Sporty, thanks for taking the time to answer.

I also read up a bit more on raising the compression ratio. Something that stood out was "Higher compression makes more power anywhere in the RPM band". That is good news, because I'd hate to have less low-end torque. A wild cam is not an option anymore. I've had my fair share of those in my younger days. 

A rough calculation shows that the cylinder block needs to be shaved 0.63mm to go to 10:1 static compression (from the standard 9:1). With the wide squish areas on the GS500 engine, skimming the head is probably not an option. Another idea of course is to use a thinner head gasket. But I'm not sure if that is available.

Found a picture of a GS500 cyl head on GSTwins. Note wide squish areas. Can't make out if the there is a step down to the squish band or not.



One website mentions 3% torque gain with one point CR increase. So, if stock power is 51hp, then I'm currently getting approx. 43hp with 16% less dense air at my altitude. Add 3% for one point CR increase and I'm at 44hp. That's hardly worth all the work. My best option would be to move to a coastal town or get a bigger bike!  :icon_rolleyes:

But with all the work I'm putting into my project bike, I think I'll just keep the engine stock and enjoy it for what it is.  :thumb:


PS: MY nickname SK Racing has nothing to do with motorcycle racing. Never been on a track with a motorcycle. I'm too shyte scared for that.
You don't stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding!
1939 Panther 600cc Single - Stolen, 1970 Suzuki 50cc - Sold
1969 Triumph Bonneville 650 T120R - Sold, 1981 Honda CB750F - Sold
1989 Suzuki GS500E - Sold, 2004 Suzuki GS500F - Current ride

Sporty

#158
There is no issue milling a head with quench bands. 
I do it all the time. 
On the RH side in your photo, it looks flat from gasket to the chamber. Even if there was a step, as long a the piston isn't above the deck, no problem.

Depending on the chamber shape, you won't reduce volume as much as milling the block.

You can only deck the block so much because you need to maintain mimimum quench distance.(piston to head)  With an all Aluminum engine thats about .030" or .76 mm minimum safe distance. .030"-.040" is ideal IMO.

So perfection would be to mill the block for optimum quench and the head to desired compression ratio.

Ive read there is safely .050" room for total milling head and block on a  typical GS500.

The easier is to just mill the head and advance the cam, especially the intake cam. Close the intake valve sooner to increase dynamic compression.

All said, the bike is what it is. I probably wouldn't take apart a perfectly good running engine for that work.  If it needed a freshen up (top end overhaul) then I would mill it and do a conservative/ mild port job.

Used Suzuki GS500 = motorcycle adventure without leaving the shop.

Current motorcycles: 1993 GS500E, 1996 XL1200, 1999 ST1100

SK Racing

#159
Quote from: Sporty on October 22, 2020, 09:43:09 AM
All said, the bike is what it is. I probably wouldn't take apart a perfectly good running engine for that work.  If it needed a freshen up (top end overhaul) then I would mill it and do a conservative/ mild port job.


My sentiments exactly. Thanks for confirming.
You don't stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding!
1939 Panther 600cc Single - Stolen, 1970 Suzuki 50cc - Sold
1969 Triumph Bonneville 650 T120R - Sold, 1981 Honda CB750F - Sold
1989 Suzuki GS500E - Sold, 2004 Suzuki GS500F - Current ride

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