How do you up-shift, clutch or no?

[skrap1r0n]

I was wondering, do you guys always clutch while upshifting? I drove my GS from '91 to '94, up to the point when it got stolen and I only ever clutch coming out of first and when downshifting. I can also do it in a car, providing it doesn't have a lockout preventing it. I had no issues with the bike in the 3 years I drove it as my main vehicle, and I am now doing on my new EX500.

So I was wondering, am I the only one that does this or is it a common practice? I can get a smoother ride if I do clutch, and I generally do if I have a passenger, but if I am solo, I feel like I get a lot better performance by not clutching.

Thoughts or comments?

[EDub]

uuuuhhhhh, what the hell?!?!

[weaselnoze]

well i've tried it a few times. kinda jerky but it works. its not like a car where u have to have the synchros at the right point (certain rpm).  its probably faster however considering you dont have to pull in the clutch then let it out..  i dont do this just because i think its bad, however i dont really know if it is

[jkstyle834]

........ clutch should be used everytime you shift... up or down... anyone... correct me if im wrong... cause i cant shift without the clutch....

[jkstyle834]

well i've tried it a few times. kinda jerky but it works. its not like a car where u have to have the synchros at the right point (certain rpm).  its probably faster however considering you dont have to pull in the clutch then let it out..  i dont do this just because i think its bad, however i dont really know if it is

oh... i used to work at an acura dealership.. and i saw a mechenic doing that crap with a nsx... he just pop it into a gear synching with rpm... some crazy sh't... but i never tried it with a motorcycle... just use clutch... are you that lazy?

[se7enty7]

ok on a car it can be done with less problems than a motorcycle...


in a car, you pop it in neutral, then when rpm's match wheel speed you pop it into gear.


on a motorcycle there is no neutral per say..



that is, imo, a dumb thing to do

[skrap1r0n]

Lazy? Not at all, it's just a matter of habit. If your in the sweet spot with your RPM, it's damn near seamless. Theres a small "pop" of power as you engage, but thats about it.

I learned how to ride on an ATV when I was a younger, around 11 or 12. I was constantly stalling out. My cousin who raced dirtbikes locally told not to worry about clutching on the upshift. It kinda stuck with me I guess.

I can also do it in a car, providing it's doesn't have a clutch activated shift lock, but it's no where NEAR as seamless, you have to go to neutral, let off the gas and wait for the tach to equalize then you can shift, on a bike, a quick flick of the wrist to zero the throttle shift then back up to power.

<shrug>

[skrap1r0n]

weaselnoze


You hit it on the head. I have never heard that it was bad for the bike, you just have to contend with the slight pop when you get back on the gas. I suppose my question is, Is it bad for the bike, and if so, in what way?

like I said, I did it with my GS for a bit over 3 years and never had an issue with it, so I was wondering if someone had any insight?

[manofthefield]

I did a quick search for "clutchless" and found this among others.

I personally always use the clutch, but thats just me

[ashman]

there was a post on this a couple months back by rick500 i think. it was relating clutchless upshifts for racing to improve times. I've done it once in a while and it does allow you to shift faster. and the bike seems to slip into the gear smoothly when doing it. i always rev high when doing it.  

-ash

[dgyver]

Up shifting without a clutch on a motorcyle is very easy to do. I do it at times on my TLR. Once was at WOT, never backing off the throttle, through all 6 gears and letting it bounce off the rev limiter. Just wanted to really get a good rush.

Most of the time on my GS I will just pull the clutch in slightly. But at times I do not use it at all.

Some damage is possible to the tranny...rounded gears and bent shift forks are possible but it takes a lot of abuse. You are more likely to damage an auto's tranny from clutchless shifting.

[skrap1r0n]

Just out of curiosity, I just called my cousin to ask him about it. His response was that when racing, it prevents you dumping the clutch under high RPM and bringing the front wheel up.

[Dom]

My cousin who raced dirtbikes locally told not to worry about clutching on the upshift. It kinda stuck with me I guess.

Emulating racers is fine, but if you want your transmission to last it's best to not put any undue stress on the gears.   I have seen racers use the motto: "Win or break trying."  Constant rebuilding is a normal part of racing, but it is seen by some as a nuisance that is best to be avoided.

Let the clutch do all the hard work, that's why it's there, and that's why it has easily replaceable components.

[Jake D]

I just read an article in CW or Sport Rider or something, where they tested the Suzuki MotoGP bike.  It uses a computer to "blip" the throttle to make clutchless down shifts easier.  The author of the article that test rode the bike said he only used the clutch on his first lap, pulling out of pit lane.  
Personally, I like to clutch it when I am pulling out too. . .

[skrap1r0n]

It's not really a matter of emulating them, it's just how I learned to ride. After looking around on the web and reading the link that Jared provided in that other post, I notice that I am not in THAT big of a minority.

I am probably running about 70%/30% clutchless/clutch shifting and I never do it down shifting or in traffic.

[weaselnoze]

I just read an article in CW or Sport Rider or something, where they tested the Suzuki MotoGP bike.  It uses a computer to "blip" the throttle to make clutchless down shifts easier.  The author of the article that test rode the bike said he only used the clutch on his first lap, pulling out of pit lane.  
Personally, I like to clutch it when I am pulling out too. . .

ok blipping is cool. the newest year nissan 350z has the computer blip thing.  unless i am trying to use my engine as a means of braking i biip the gas every time i downshift (car).  you can pop the clutch immediately after u are in gear. it goes along with double clutching which isnt really neccesary in todays cars.

[Eisenfaust]

I've never had any trouble with clutchless upshifts, once I figured out the smoothest method. At first, it was jerky as hell, but now I can do it just about every time, no trouble.

First off, it has to be done at relatively full throttle or high rpm conditions. Every time I've tried at low engine speed its been a jerky mess. I pretty much only use it when getting on a freeway (the only time I really get any kind of sustained accelleration).

Basically, I apply a light upwards pressure to the shift lever just before I want to shift... then when I shift, I just quickly roll off then on the throttle. This momentarilly introduces slack into the transmission for a split second(the gears arent being powered by either the engine or the rear wheel) , and the bike just shifts up seamlessly, and I get back on the throttle.

Works similarly in a car, for both upshifts and downshifts. I actually find it easier to downshift clutchlessly in a car. Done right, its smooth as silk.. Its like a window opens in the transmission's gears.. and you just shift. Cant really describe the feeling.

As far as I can tell though, one should never downshift on a bike without using the clutch. There's no way to increase engine rpm to match transmission and wheel speed for a lower gear.

[skrap1r0n]

I don't do it on the way down either, but after checing into it today, apparently you need to ADD a bit of power on the way down. Not gonna try it though. I agree with the rpm thing, it works best between 6 and 8k on my EX500.Any lower makes it clunky.

[chuey]

If the GS 500 has a constant mesh tranny its perfectly fine. Most inline 4's do, as I was doing it all summer with my YZF600 last year. I've never tried a downshift though.  You really gotta match your revs to do this, and as peeps said preload your clutch with a little pressure using your foot, throttle, throttle off shift up and then blip the throttle. It takes a little  practice and can really F up your tranny if you do it badly.

[Eklipse]

I won't give any opinions on clutchless shfting, but I actually shifted into neutral between fourth and fifth once. It was weird.