terry shiavos fight is over?

[yamahonkawazuki]

hey i understand some say leave the fed govt out of it. but we dont know what her wishes were. and now her husband litlerally wants to starve her to death, i think there is a more humane way of doing this, now she got no food no water, i know she cant communicate verbally, but damn, here in a few days shes gonna start goin thru hell. there are more humane ways of doin this. :x , like about 600 units of insulin, to a non-diabetic it is a painless coma-death scenario, sorry just had to vent. :dunno:

[Blueknyt]

welp, its touchy, Husband says let her go, momma says no, now if im not mistaken, Legaly Hubby got the say so.   i think too many cling to "The Right to life" when should be more concerned with what the "Quality of life" is going to be.



Sit back and look at your life with Your Eyes in a 3rd person veiw.  we not talking a mild stroke, or a car wreck that broke your body and is 50/50 you will be somthing like your old self. Would any of you want to have your diapers changed daily, and be tended too for every thing you need done? Not being able to comunicate in any way with the ones you love. not being able to understand what they are saying.  

I can learn to cope with losing hands, or the ability to walk, or speak, i could probly learn to cope with lose of sight and hearing. CAN you have  quality of life with these disabilities? yes, Different but yes.


EVEN if you could Understand everything you hear, but the rest of your body fails to work as you know it should, No voice, no controled movement beyond a smile or blink of eyes. could you suddenly stand to be locked up withyour self unable to comunicate with your loved ones?

I cant think of anything More Torturous then being locked into my own mind. not able to reach out any further then just behind my own eyes.

Or worse, your squash got scrambled and now your back to 7months old mentaly and your not going to get any better

IS THIS QUALITY OF LIFE?  if you belive so, you amaze  and frighten me.
No, i cant say i wouldnt strugle or rip myself to shreds with making that call for my parents,wife or child. what parent wants to see thier child die?
none that i know of. but if a loved one is as i discribed, then i would be the monster or the selfish one to keep them like that, it would have to be the most unforgivable hurt i could do to someone/

Everyone who knows me worth a toot knows i would rather passaway then be alump of flesh needing constant tending. and If i had wits still and nothing else, i would go mad with greif and hatred for being kept alive like that.

[Anonymous]

I have 2 words people..   LIVING WILL  Don't let this happen to you.

I can't say any more than Blueknyt...  Living is NOT just breathing.

[splatt]

i'm with joerocker and bluekynt, let her go.  what is this mom clinging to anyways?  her daughter's been like this for what, 12 years?  common sense tells us she's not going to get better.  this mom is thinking only of herself and her needs, not the needs of her daughter who lies in a hospital bed day after day.  my girlfriends mom was just laid up in the hospital for 10 days and it drove her crazy!  imagine 12 years of that...

[indestructibleman]

how about this story:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3073295

or this one:
http://www.freep.com/news/nw/baby16e_20050316.htm

under the Texas Futile care law, hospitals can decide that care is futile, and to discontinue medical care.

"A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support, the chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital said Monday."

so if you're terminal AND your family can't pay, they can pull the plug.

the sad thing is that, unlike Shiavo, these patients were not brain dead.

now, they might have been suffering.  and there is a certain point at which i believe a suffering person should be allowed to die.  but in these cases part of the decision seemed to hinge on their ability to pay, which seems a little wrong to me.

i can understand not wanting hopeless cases to become a burden on society, but still, that's pretty cold.


-will

[indestructibleman]

hey i understand some say leave the fed govt out of it. but we dont know what her wishes were. and now her husband litlerally wants to starve her to death, i think there is a more humane way of doing this, now she got no food no water, i know she cant communicate verbally, but damn, here in a few days shes gonna start goin thru hell. there are more humane ways of doin this. :x , like about 600 units of insulin, to a non-diabetic it is a painless coma-death scenario, sorry just had to vent. :dunno:

you're absolutely right.  there are more humane ways to euthanize people.  unfortunately, in most places, starving them or suffocating them (by removing respirators) are the only legal ways to kill a patient.

as i understand it, the argument is that by denying food or air, your allowing them to die, whereas administering insulin would be actively killing them.

there's a logic there, but it's ultimately screwed up.  i think we need some good laws governing doctor assisted suicide.

-will

[JCH]

starvation is apparently one of the top ranked "Quality of Death"s.  So the whole "They're starving her!" argument doesn't hold much weight.

I feel for the husband here. He's dealt with this for 15 years, when it was against her will in the first place.   Give the poor guy some closure.

[Laura]

Plus, isn't she unable to feel pain?

[indestructibleman]

Plus, isn't she unable to feel pain?

i believe you're right.  she's already beyond suffering.

however, they also do this in cases where the person CAN feel pain, simply because it's the only legal way to allow people to die.

starvation may not compare to burning alive, but i'm sure it's less fun than lethal injection or electrocution or even beheading.

[Zarathustra]

first off, most of her brain is liquid.  she doesn't have brain damage, she's missing most of her brain.  she has no cerebral cortex.  the only reason she has any reactions to anything whatsoever is because reflexes are governed by the spinal chord.  as for starvation, she's not going to starve.  she's going to die of dehydration first.  her body will slowly shut down, she'll slip into a coma, and she'll die.  she won't feel it, and it's not inhumane.  she's not even really human anymore aside from in apperance, so inhumane doesn't even apply.

doesn't anyone else find it odd that the party that stops everyone from having good, affordable health care is doing everything they can to make sure this shell of a woman is kept alive, going so far as to legislate for it, but could give a shaZam! less about the people in our own country dying as a lack of medical care daily?  i love the smell of hypocracy in the morning.

[indestructibleman]

one could argue that Tom Delay, by speaking out for the rights of the brain dead, is just looking after his constituency.

[Zarathustra]

BURN!

[Anonymous]

Zara,

Who are you and why do you so vehemently say things that are not in the least bit accurate?

Her brain isn't liquid.  She had a heart attack and was down too long.

Nobody goes without any healthcare in this country.  If you can't pay you're not turned out onto the streets.  You may not get the same quality as someone with supurb insurance but you're never denied emergency care.  It's the law.  God, you're so ignorant but always have some smart ass comment.

Go and live in one of those "everyone gets unlimited free medical coverage" countries see what you pay in taxes.  How does 70% sound.  Want to keep only 30% of your salary?  Here you probably PAY 30% in taxes.  You live in a great country (at least until the cheap oil runs out) don't rag on it so much.  

BTW, hate your picture...  Have respect for the position if not the man.

[indestructibleman]

BTW, hate your picture...  Have respect for the position if not the man.

i would agree that the office of president deserves some respect, and i would like it if someone would tell W. that.

[Zarathustra]

no one goes without healthcare eh?  weird, i must not have seen people freezing on the streets when i was in new york and dying in allies.  or the people here in minneapolis dying of aids on the street because they can't afford treatment.

as for not having a liquid brain, well, i'll leave that for you to decide.

Normal Brain:



Terry's Brain:



and for the record, that part in the middle that looks all shaded, that's the no brain zone.

as for my picture, to be fair, it was before he was president.

edit: so maybe you're the one that ought to start saying things that are accurate.  you couldn't do it in the ghey marriage thread, and so far you're not doing it here.

[Anonymous]

Most of her brain is not liquid.  Yes, there is atrophy and it has shrunk, it's NOT missing.  The way you say it there's just a little nub the rest just dissolved away.  Not true.  Atrophy.

[Zarathustra]

ohhhh, so you're saying it works?  and i suppose i was a bit incorrect in my first statement.  you're right, her brain isn't liquid, it has atrophied.  however, the space the brain normally takes is now filled with liquid.  with a brain that has decreased in size that much, has that much liquid surrounding it, and no viable cerebral cortex, i'd like you to explain to me what type of life this woman might have.  you know, cause her brain works.  the only part of her brain this is working correctly is the one that marginally keeps her "alive".

[Zarathustra]

and for the record, seeing as terry has a mental condition, and probably just wants the rules changed for her, i don't think she should be allowed to be married anymore.  ya know?  it just kind of makes me uncomfortable.

[john]

I have struggled with my feelings on this subject.  She has the right to live, on the other hand if her wishes were to not be kept alive in a veg state then I can see why the husband wants to let her go.

All I can say is I am glad I am not faced with this decision.  Anne made it clear that she would not want to be kept alive of she was in the same state as this poor woman.  I suggested she get a living will as the same thing could happen to her down the road.

I feel sorry for the husband, he's made out to be some sort of monster by many people.  I bet he is struggling with the same issues, but feels he is following her will.

[Zarathustra]

actually the husband is already living with another woman who he has 2 kids with.  this happened 15 years ago, i'm pretty sure you can develope some disattachment in that time period.  for his life, and especially if it really was her wish, if i were him i'd want her to be unhooked.