Started the valve check today-question

[wczimmerman]

:x   :x   :x

OK-so I start the job and I find out right away that the .015mm feeler won't go in on any of the 4.  Based on this information, they're obviously too tight.  We bought the bike used with 5K miles and have put maybe another 1K on it so it was overdue.  I pulled the shims out of the 2 intakes and 1 exhaust to see what size they were:

RI-2.65
LI-2.68
RE-2.65
LE-Unknown yet

I'm using the how-to here and the Haynes manual and going VERY slow.  One thing I noticed was absent from both was a little warning to NOT turn the engine when the shims are removed.  I thought I would just remove all 4 (writing down what size was where) and go up to the dealer in the morning to get some new shims.  What I discovered was that cams just barely contact the shim holder as they rotate which of course scratched the very outside edge of the cam lobe where it pushes the valve down.  I don't think this will affect the engine at all since it is so minor and the cam lobe itself is 99% unscratched.

So, based on my measurements, I can only guess on the clearance since I don't have a feeler that goes smaller than 0.015mm.  I figured on .010 mm and I think I need to get 4 2.25 shims.  Thoughts?

[davipu]

call first to see if they even have any.

[Anonymous]

Huh?

Four 2.25 shims when yours were 2.65, 2.68, 2.65??

No, if you could turn the bucket to get the slot to line up so you could take the shim out (Am I right here?) then I'd go: 2.60, 2.60 or 2.65, 2.60.  If you can turn the bucket don't go any smaller than 0.05 smaller than what you have.

Do you have one of the kits floating around?  Get one, they're full of shims you can try and then add yours and maybe a couple of new ones when you're done.

[wczimmerman]

I called the dealer already and they have them in stock.

Not quite following you, joerocker.  Yes, the buckets would turn easily to line up the slot, but I could not get the feeler in even at .015 mm.  That's paper thin!

[wczimmerman]

Ooops...

I posted the wrong measurement.  It was tighter than .038mm/.0015 in.  So, based on this info and the chart in the Haynes manual I am supposed to go to a 2.60 as you said.  Guessing that the clearance may be something like .025mm (don't have a feeler that goes that small and I don't know where to find one...), then a 2.60 would put me right at .030 for the minimum clearance.  Wouldn't it be better to put the valves in the middle of the range rather than at the min clearance?

[davipu]

and so are the tolerances that your working with, if the buckets will spin then there is some clearance, droping one size at this point will put you in the zone, but droping .2mm like you suggested will put you way under

[Anonymous]

Trust me.  If you can spin the bucket to get the slot to line up you have some clearance, go down one size (from 265 to 260) and you'll be right where you want to be.  

Mine were WAY too tight, 14000 miles without a check, I couldn't spin anything and I had to loosen the cam shaft just to turn the bucket.  Just to be safe I went down 2 sizes (260 to 250) and now it's a little TOO loose.  It doesn't seem to hurt anything, my valves just don't stay open quite as long as a perfectly adjusted set would, and this way I can wait longer before I have to adjust it again.

[Kerry]

Guessing that the clearance may be something like .025mm (don't have a feeler that goes that small and I don't know where to find one...), then a 2.60 would put me right at .030 for the minimum clearance. Wouldn't it be better to put the valves in the middle of the range rather than at the min clearance?

Yes, but there's a problem:  The acceptable clearance range is .05mm (from .03mm to .08mm) and so is the difference in thickness from one shim size to the next.  So if your current clearance is right on one of the boundaries, and your shim thickness is an even x.x0 or x.x5 mm ... you're stuck.  You have to choose between being atn the lower limit or the upper limit ...

... UNLESS you can find a factory-installed shim with an "odd" size, like your 2.68 unit.  See if the service department at the dealership keeps a coffee can full of used shims.  They might let you rummage through it (bring a dial caliper or micrometer along) or they might do the rummaging themselves.  They might even trade you straight across for your used ones.  :dunno:

More Hints:

* Don't decide on a new shim size until you're fairly certain about the current clearance and the current shim size.

* Pick up a thin-ish "test shim" like I recommend on my

Replacement Shim Selection Chart (inspired by the Haynes chart, but with more info).  This is for those situations where the valve is so tight that you can't spin the bucket.

* Don't forget to swap your existing shims from one valve to another if it makes sense.  There's usually no need to replace ALL of the shims with brand new ones.

* After replacing a shim, spin the motor through two or three complete cycles before rechecking the clearance.  This will push measurement-wrecking oil out from under the shim.[/list:u]

[DerekNC]

Yeah, it's going to be hard to get get some of the valves perfect clearance. I went down one size on an intake valve(it measured less than .038 mm) but now it is slightly looser than spec. So evidently it had at least .03 mm clearance but my feeler gauge wouldn't go down that far. Something could have changed slightly also since I removed the cams to get the shims out. But get them as close as you can and everything should work out fine.

Derek

[wczimmerman]

   

OK-stupid mistake time:

I had 2 of the feelers stuck together and didn't notice until this afternoon.  The .0015" and the .0020" were stuck.  Once I figured that out I found out just how my clearance really was.  Long story short:  

The LI was 268, now 265
The RI was 265 and still 265
The RE was 265 now 260
The LE was unknown buy within spec

Thanks to everyone for their help!  The bike runs a bit smoother and this maintenance item is off my list for a while.