Stock brakes? or upgrade?

[arcsecond]

Hello all,

I have my MSF BasicRider course scheduled in early May and am currently in the process of doing all the research I can on riding and what bike to buy for when I do get my license. Currently the GS500F is in the front running. Everything I've read seems to say it's a great beginner bike but will still keep me interested and be useful for a long while after I get the hang of everything.

I plan on using it mainly for commuting (surface streets around 30mph) in the Santa Monica -> Hollywood areas of LA. Notorious for being the home of some of the stupidest and most distracted  drivers in the world. To this end I'd like to know what everyone thinks about the stock brakes on this bike. Are they any good? I notice they're single cylinder, is that enough? Are there any recommended mods or upgrades for them? Is it even possible to mod/upgrade them?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

-James



PS: I did use the forum search feature first but it didn't return anything terribly helpful.
PPS: any other general riding advice would be appreciated as well, I'd like to pass the MSF the first time, but haven't riden a motorcycle before. I'm in the process of scouring this forum for all the useful tidbits, and there are many.

[scratch]

Welcome!

I've been riding 19 years and find the GS to be a fine long-term steed.  The stock brakes are more than adequate, nearly being able to lock up the front tire with a single finger squeeze.  They are upgradable with stainless-steel, braided brake lines and double-H (HH-)rated brake pads (EBC)(I have only upgraded to the EBC HH pads, so far).  The front brakes are actually dual-pistoned units (two pots on one side, body of the caliper is drawn, pulling the opposing pad), but not opposed-piston like the rear brake.

[werase643]

if you have a good sticky front tire
you can do stoppies with the stock stuff
if you have a rock tire
you can slide the front

i prefer stoppies
also GSXR USD (inverted) forks

[pandy]

arcsecond:

Welcome to the nuthouse! 

When I took the MSF almost two years ago, I'd never ridden a motorcycle before. Even though there are often experienced riders in the beginner course, it is geared toward the total beginner. I was amazed and delighted that by the end of the course, I was able to ride a motorcycle! I still had a lot of practice to do in the parking lot, but I had done it! And I'd passed the written and riding tests! 

I will say that the MSF beginner course was exhausting, and it sucked taking it during hot weather, so early May sounds like a great time to take it! Be well rested! Do what you're doing: reading, soaking up the knowledge, and asking questions! 

[Alphamazing]

Welcome!

I've been riding 19 years and find the GS to be a fine long-term steed.  The stock brakes are more than adequate, nearly being able to lock up the front tire with a single finger squeeze.  They are upgradable with stainless-steel, braided brake lines and double-H (HH-)rated brake pads (EBC)(I have only upgraded to the EBC HH pads, so far).  The front brakes are actually dual-pistoned units (two pots on one side, body of the caliper is drawn, pulling the opposing pad), but not opposed-piston like the rear brake.

On the '04+ bikes they are 4 piston calipers. From the Suzuki site: "A single hydraulic disc with four-piston caliper provides reliable braking in front, while a dual-piston caliper-and-disc combo is mounted out back." so it looks like the upgraded the brakes as well.

[arcsecond]

Ah, that's where I was getting confused. I was looking at the wrong page of the suzuki site: http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GS500FK6/Specs/Default.aspx

Where it says:
"Brakes Front:   Single hydraulic disc
Brakes Rear:   Single hydraulic disc"

I was thinking that meant a single piston for braking power, not a single disk as I can understand now.

So much to learn. I suppose it's probably a good think I'm going to have to wait two more months for the MSF, but the waiting sure is hard.

-James

[Alphamazing]

So much to learn. I suppose it's probably a good think I'm going to have to wait two more months for the MSF, but the waiting sure is hard.

-James

Learn as much as you can, as it can help you later on. You've got to wait anyways, so you might as well learn as much about motorcycles as you can. Learn how everything works together, the way a four-cycle engine works, the way valves work and how the way the brakes move their pistons. Learn how the suspension works and what rake and trail are, and how changing those numbers can change the handling characteristics of the bike. There are lots of things to learn, so you might as well make good use of your time!

[500rider]

I never found the GS's brakes to be lacking ... until I rode a CBR600RR.  That's like comparing a Ferrari to a volkswagon though.  The brakes should do you fine.  Power will decrease a little over a couple of years because the rubber hydraulic hoses will lose resistance to expansion.  Changing to SS hoses will fix that.  HH pads will also give you more stopping power but I don't think they're really necessary.

Tips for the test.  Before you do the test, stop, think about what you are going to do, visualize or talk yourself through it and then do it.  I made the mistake of rushing into the test and almost failing.  My test consisted of a course setup in a parking lot with about 7 different segments.  On the first segment, I rushed out to the starting point because the examiner was waiting.  I started out without even realizing which part of the test I was doing.  I missed the low speed turn, put my foot down and then went outside all the lines.  I realized I'd fail if I made any more mistakes.  Each segment I did after that, I calmed down, visualized it first and I did all the remaining ones perfect.  

Good luck!

[pandy]

Oh boy....I remember a tip...do NOT...absolutely, positively do NOT brake during the curve... they take 10 points off for that (if I recall correctly, one needs 70 points out of 100 to pass the riding portion?)...so that's a chunk of points! 

P.S. You brake before the curve, slowing down enough to enter the curve and then start throttling up gently.

[Monkie]

Hey I only have 2 things to say..
1) with most new riders bad braking or a lack of braking is due to rider error not the bike.  Most bikes, including the GS, can pretty much stop on a dime (assuming you don't lock anything up).  so in short i've found the GS brakes to be more than good enough to stop faster than any bad driver on santa monica blvd.
2) but on that note yes drivers in west la and hollywood really are that bad so honestly while braking is good around here honking and reving the engine is a lot more useful.  make damn sure they see you before you get to the point that you have to pull a swerve maneuver or emergency brake because i guarantee you that 17 year old in her hummer talking on the cell phone doesn't see you or really care if she does or doesn't.

so yea honk, rev, scream, curse and if all that fails hope that everybody on this board has not been embellishing their little 500's braking power 

[gsmetal]

Upgrade your brakes.

I have never heard anyone say...

"Yeah, I upgraded my brakes and while they work better then the stock ones, I don't like them."

[Cal Amari]

As much as I like the results of his work:

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24234.0

I have to disagree with gsmetal on this point. The stock brakes are fine just as they are, and though they can be improved upon (EBC HH brake pads, stainless steel brake lines, EBC or Lockheed racing rotors, etc., etc., ad nauseum), there is such a thing as overkill. I hate to think about what could happen to a new rider who grabs a handful of front brake (or mashes the rear brake pedal) in a panic situation; I think the stock brakes would actually be more forgiving of such antics than brakes that were more powerful.

For now, you need to focus on developing your skill set; ANY new motorcycle you buy can spit you off if you don't know what you're doing. Once you've learned how to control a motorcycle, and how to control your own response in a crisis situation on the street (learn how to avoid grabbing a handful of front brake, or mashing the brake pedal, and better yet, learn how to avoid the potential crisis situation completely by constantly reading the traffic around you and make the frequent adjustments needed to keep you out of harm's way). A strong brake in the dry can be overpowering in the wet; Suzuki has sold countless THOUSANDS of GS500's worldwide, all with the same basic brakes front and rear, and if they were inadequate for the task at hand, a multitude of lawsuits would have forced Suzuki to make wholesale changes to the brake system.

[arcsecond]

Thank you all for your replies, they've been most helpful.

Cal Amari:

You  make a good point about the number sold. I have no experience with Suzuki as a company, but I wouldn't put it past a lot of companies not to make a product with systems that are just barely passable but not good at all for real world situations. Especially seeing as how the GS500 seems to be considered the low-end of the spectrum. But the replies I've gotten here have put any fears on that point to rest.

I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy. Paranoia is a way of life for me. I don't like to be unprepared for things. I saw how many of the HOW-TOs on here were devoted to upgrading the suspension systems but saw little information on braking capability. Both of which I consider important safety features..

-James

[makenzie71]

EBC pads make the stock binders super great for your typical rider.  Of course, for racing or even aggressive riding, I prefer to run an inverted front off of a late 90's GSXR 750 or TL.  You can get 6-pot calipers off the TLR or 750, dual 320mm discs and a better aftermarket for replacemetn parts...plus that beefy front end looks badass on the little bike.

[gsmetal]

I have to disagree with gsmetal on this point. The stock brakes are fine just as they are, and though they can be improved upon (EBC HH brake pads, stainless steel brake lines, EBC or Lockheed racing rotors, etc., etc., ad nauseum), there is such a thing as overkill. I hate to think about what could happen to a new rider who grabs a handful of front brake (or mashes the rear brake pedal) in a panic situation; I think the stock brakes would actually be more forgiving of such antics than brakes that were more powerful.

Just for the record, I would rather have "too much brake" at my disposal than "not enough" especially when things come down to crunch time (pun intended).

It's my opinion that most (not all) brakes have initial stopping power when the lever is applied, but as a rule there's too much fade for my liking. I don't want to be feeling the brake lever against the handlebar thinking...

As far as the rear brake is concerned - never use it myself.

[calamari]

stock brakes are fine... unless you are planning stopping in a short distance coming from a 100+mph dive

for regular commuting (i used to do 35 miles everyday) stock brakes are great and reliable.