To buy or not to buy...

[wesleyg]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post so let me just introduce myself.  My name is Wesley and I'm a student at Virginia Tech.  I've been wanting a bike for a long time, and it looks like I'm finally in a place to get my first.  My only experience riding so far was when I took MSF back in June '05.  I got my M endorsement at that time, but did not get a bike.  Since then I have been not-so-patiently watching craigslist, ebay, cycletrader, etc for something that fits a student's budget. 

I've finally come across a GS500 for sale within my budget.  Like all good things though, there is a catch...it is currently a track bike.  I don't have much interest riding on the track right now, but some hard work and a few dollars for the things it will need to make it street legal (turn signals, tail light, headlight, horn, exhaust, ignition, so on) don't scare me much.  The GS500 seems to be fairly highly recommended as far as starter bikes go.  This is one of the E ones I believe ('89-'02 or whatever the years were, though I'm not sure exactly what year it is). 

Now to the purpose of my post, I was wondering if there are any problems that GS500's are known for developing that I should be especially careful to look out for?

Also, how much would a GS500, spare frame, spare blueprinted engine, spare rims, new tires, and a few odds and ends be worth in your opinion?  Obviously it would help you all to know the mileage and year of the bike (and I'm waiting for that info now) but give me a range if you can.  For instance, assume it is an '89 with a lot of miles and give your low number and then assume it is a '02 with low mileage and give your high number.  I feel that his asking price is fair considering what's included but I'm curious what you all will say.

I guess that's about it.  I'd drop this bike in a second if it looks like I'm getting ripped off or it's going to have huge engine problems, that's a no-brainer.  If you're going to tell me to leave this one alone because the conversion is a lot of work it's probably going to fall on deaf ears (unless it is going to cost me a lot more than I think ($100-$300) or be impossible).  Not to say that I know more about this stuff that you do, but I will have a better understanding of how everything works if I had a hand it putting it all together.  Also, I don't have all of my gear yet either, so it's not like I plan on going riding for quite some time.  Like I said before, time and a little extra parts money doesn't scare me, inheriting a dying motorcycle does.

So sorry about the long post and thanks in advance for any insight you all can give me.

-Wesley

[SeriousGeorge]

Wesley,

I just bought a 91 GS500 this weekend so I'm certainly certainly not an expert, but everything I've read says the GS motor is basically bulletproof. Race bikes can live a pretty hard life, but the GS should be up to it. I wouldn't be scared off by a track bike if you're ok with putting the street legal gear back on. A lot of people seem to want to change the turn signals to use shorter stalks anyway. I've got no idea on pricing, but I just paid $550 for my 91 and I think I got a pretty good deal.

[wesleyg]

Thanks, sounds like you got a great deal.  The asking price for the one I'm looking at is a little more than double that.  Granted, it's probably newer than 91 and has those extras, but I wish I could find one at the price you did.  Nobody sells any used GS500's except the new F's with fairings and they're new so they're up there in price.  Anyone have any idea what a used motor/frame/set of rims might fetch me because that might offset the costs a lot.

[manofthefield]

Motor $100-200 depending on age and condition
Frame idk??
Wheels $20-80 each depending on condition and if they have good tires on them

I personally probably wouldn't buy a race bike, but it sounds like you have the right mindset for it.  I admire that you want to learn about this bike from putting this it back together.  In your case it really depends on what modifications have been done to the engine.  If the counterbalancer has been removed, then the engine suddenly isn't so bulletproof.  But if the guy was running the engine mostly stock (just jetted, k&n filter, ignition advance, exhaust mods) it will probably be fine.

[JetSwing]

hey, where's the bike at? maybe i can take a look at it for you. i'm in b'burg. pm me for my number if you want.

generally, i would try to stay away from any bike that's been abused...a track bike could fall in to that category. save up for few more months a get a decent bike if that's possible. you could end up spending more to get it to a good running condition.

[wesleyg]

I'm in Blacksburg as well.  The bike is in Richmond.  I'm going either next Saturday or Sunday since that's when spring break starts.  I found a great guide to checking over used bikes a while back on a different forum that I'm going to dig up and go through when I'm there.  I'll probably have him drive it up and down the street once if he doesn't mind just to make sure it runs, etc (I don't trust myself on it just yet and it's obviously not street legal).  But the bottom line is it's not local, thanks though.  If you still want to go look at it let me know, but it's going to be like a 9-10 hour round trip and probably not too much fun.

As far as getting something that needs a ton of work...you're definitely right about that being a nightmare.  It'll just come down to how it checks out and my perception of the seller.  If you're in Blacksburg, I am guessing you're a student?  I just want to be able to get a parking space without coming at 8 or 9am or fighting with half the student body for what opens up during the day.

-Wesley

[vtlion]

I just want to be able to get a parking space without coming at 8 or 9am or fighting with half the student body for what opens up during the day.

-Wesley

There is an easier way... it's called THE BUS!! 

Seriously, the BT is the easiest way to avoid parking woes, and I assume it is still FREE to students, unlike here in State College where we don't even get a discount (jackasses).

Does Tech still let bikes park in the faculty lots?  Again, here at PSU, they stick us over by the Stadium a mile away from anything (did I mention the PSU admin are jackasses?).  I wish I had been riding when I lived there, that would have ruled.

Hope the GS works out for you.  A little more than 1000 bux should get you a decent running GS that hasn't been tortured at the track.  Hang in there, spring is coming and I'm sure more than a few people who want to sell have been sitting on their bikes waiting for spring to get the most for their sale. 

I'm still kicking around the idea of an April 15 ride down for the spring game.  Maybe if you have a ride by then we can all meet up.

[dynamic213]

I'm in B'burg as well. Jetswing and I used to go out riding all the time. I'm hoping this spring he'll get his ass in gear and fix up that beat up GS of his so we can go ride the Dragon soon!

You have the right idea of going with GS500 as a first bike. It's a very affordable, reliable piece of machine that can be cheaply fixed if dropped or crashed. But I'd go with Jetswing's suggestion of saving up and find a nicer GS that doesn't require much preparation, time, and money in order to get it in proper street legal running condition. Depending on the rider, track bikes are heavily abused and worn down, so you may be looking at some potential engine/transmission/suspension work in the near future if the bike wasn't properly maintained.

If you're not in a hurry to buy a bike, I'd keep looking. There are usually some good deals on this forum you might stumble upon.

Also a tip on riding gears ... buy the best you can afford! They will offer much better protection for one, and you won't have to worry about wasting money in order to upgrade later down the line like I did.

[JetSwing]

I'm in Blacksburg as well.  The bike is in Richmond.  I'm going either next Saturday or Sunday since that's when spring break starts.  I found a great guide to checking over used bikes a while back on a different forum that I'm going to dig up and go through when I'm there.  I'll probably have him drive it up and down the street once if he doesn't mind just to make sure it runs, etc (I don't trust myself on it just yet and it's obviously not street legal).  But the bottom line is it's not local, thanks though.  If you still want to go look at it let me know, but it's going to be like a 9-10 hour round trip and probably not too much fun.

As far as getting something that needs a ton of work...you're definitely right about that being a nightmare.  It'll just come down to how it checks out and my perception of the seller.  If you're in Blacksburg, I am guessing you're a student?  I just want to be able to get a parking space without coming at 8 or 9am or fighting with half the student body for what opens up during the day.

-Wesley

do you have any pics, stats, history on this bike? i think i've seen a gs race bike for sale in richmond before...not sure if it's the same one.

actually, i'll be out of town next weekend.

[Trwhouse]

Hi there,
Here's my two cents...
I'd suggest you keep looking.
There is far too much you will have to add based on the list you included, and no matter what you expect parts to cost, add in a 50% contingency because you are likely to underestimate the costs.
If you are saying the bike will cost $1,000 to buy as it is, there is no way you are getting a deal because you will spend a lot for the parts your list says that it needs.
If you look around, $1200 to $1500 spent elsewhere will likely give you a GS500 you can ride and enjoy right away.
I would hate to see you buy a former race bike and have to deal with constant problems as a novice. That will sour you to the joys of motorcycling quickly and be costly at a time when you say you don't have a lot of money to fix surprises later.
I once bought a former race bike from a friend and it was more work than it was worth in some ways. I've been riding for 30 years and still think of all the aggravation that bike brought at times.
Good luck, and best wishes,
Todd

[pandy]

To give you some more frame of reference, here's what I paid for my two GS500's:

1992 Commuter: Excellent condition. Had obviously been dropped, but the cosmetic damage was pretty minor. Rattle can paint job, but I didn't care about that. Engine ran great. $1,000.00

1990 Ratbike/streetfighter: Sat for a while, fires up, but I haven't actually ridden him yet. Needs quite a bit of work. Fork seals busted. Was definitely a track bike, but was registered and street legal. $200.00

A grand should buy you a street legal bike in fairly good condition. If you can get some good pictures, that would help. I purchased the ratbike based on pictures, and we trucked him home.

[GeeP]

Tell us more about the bike.  Year, mileage, history, damage, current state of repair.

Make sure the bike has a title.  Also make sure the title serial number matches the frame serial number.  Trackbikes have a habit of crashing.  Trackbike owners have a habit of swapping frames.  A title with the wrong serial number will not impress the DMV.

Personally though, I think you can probably do better.  Trackbikes lead a hard life.

[wesleyg]

I've got a couple of decent pictures.  In fact, here they are:



The bike has a salvage title, but I don't know about the numbers matching.  It has been sitting for quite some time now but he says it starts.  I also don't really know anything about year/mileage because it's a track bike so it has a lot of different, newer/older parts.  Which part(s) do want the mileage for? I'm sure I could get that info.

Here's his ad:

GS500 Race Bike - and Spares - $1250

It is a deal, I think.

You get:

The bike in the photo.
A spare engine (This is a supposed blueprinted engine)
A spare partial frame (missing the engine bracing bar)
A set of spare rims with brand new rain tires
A Works Shock for the GS
Some crash stuff
Some brake stuff
Some fork shim stuff

Bike is track kitted with a leak pan, crash bars, progressive springs, 1/2 of a SV650 brake set-up and a steering damper.

There are some hinky things that I would fix if I were racing

- Electrics should be done better - with correct insulated connectors and wired sano

- Brake set-up lacks feel - I would reduce the size of the piston assembly

- Choke set-up is somewhat funky.

- IT is a track bike, no keys required - gas tank lock converted to convenient screwdriver access.


I haven't stared it since last October - however, it has been under cover for the past 12 months - It may require a new battery - (on me, of course), but it should fire

[Trwhouse]

Hi again weslyg,

I think it looks cool, but for $1250, you can do better if you want a STREET bike.
It needs instruments, which won't be cheap.
It needs stock lights and mounting brackets and wiring harnesses -- head, tail, blinkers, reflectors -- to be street legal, and none of it is cheap.
It needs a stock brake caliper in front, with stock master cylinder if it's not there. The listing says the brake feel is poor and needs smaller caliper pistons.
It needs wiring and ignition switch and that's not cheap. It even needs a horn and bracket, and handlebar switch gear too, if they're not there with wiring harnesses.
It needs choke and possibly carb work to be streetable again.
Also, this is going to be a lot of work and you still won't know how much it was beaten on on the track.
It was a race bike.
Let him sell it to someone who wants to race it and go buy yourself a nice bike to start with.
It's your call, but these are the realities. I'm really not sure why you're still considering this with all the work and expense that will be involved.
The real question is, is it worth another $500 invested (and it could need more if the engine is tired -- valves, head gasket, transmission, let alone street-legal tires, chain, sprockets, cables, etc.) Is this worth $1800 or more in the end? I'd say no. You can buy a nice bike for that and ride now.
Good luck,
Todd

[3imo]

I'D BUY IT!!!  IT LOOKS SWEEEEEEET.

I disagree on getting it legal though.  depends on your state I guess.
you don't need instruments. (pricey)  just a speedo. 
you need a headlight. (cheap or not)  and blinkers.  ( nothing has to be stock- stock is pricey)

this bike has streetfighter written all over it.

now if your going to turn back to stock. than its a dumb idea to go with this.
but it won't take much to make legal. and it looks great.

buy it!!!!  and ride hard cause she's a beauty.

[My Name Is Dave]

Based on the info in your post, I would absolutely not buy this bike. Waaaaaaaay too much work to get it on the street, way too many unknown variables in the history, and priced too high IMHO.

1500 will get you a nice street-ready bike. There are old honda CBs, some early sportbikes, and bikes like that on craigslist in my area for under 2k all the time. They'll be reliable and won't take more time being worked on than being ridden.

I honestly don't even know if I'd buy that to be my track bike. But that's just me.

I've got a couple of decent pictures.  In fact, here they are:



The bike has a salvage title, but I don't know about the numbers matching.  It has been sitting for quite some time now but he says it starts.  I also don't really know anything about year/mileage because it's a track bike so it has a lot of different, newer/older parts.  Which part(s) do want the mileage for? I'm sure I could get that info.

Here's his ad:

GS500 Race Bike - and Spares - $1250

It is a deal, I think.

You get:

The bike in the photo.
A spare engine (This is a supposed blueprinted engine)
A spare partial frame (missing the engine bracing bar)
A set of spare rims with brand new rain tires
A Works Shock for the GS
Some crash stuff
Some brake stuff
Some fork shim stuff

Bike is track kitted with a leak pan, crash bars, progressive springs, 1/2 of a SV650 brake set-up and a steering damper.

There are some hinky things that I would fix if I were racing

- Electrics should be done better - with correct insulated connectors and wired sano

- Brake set-up lacks feel - I would reduce the size of the piston assembly

- Choke set-up is somewhat funky.

- IT is a track bike, no keys required - gas tank lock converted to convenient screwdriver access.


I haven't stared it since last October - however, it has been under cover for the past 12 months - It may require a new battery - (on me, of course), but it should fire

[JetSwing]

i would have to agree with everyone. if you want a trouble/hassle-free bike, stay away from this one. i should know...i've been down this road before with my first GS. it's not even worth looking unless you're looking for a track bike.

the was a very clean with low mileage 1999 gs for $1200 about a month back...you can find better deals.

[wesleyg]

You all are probably right about letting this one go because of the track abuse that it could have endured.  I'm just not a patient person and I rarely see prices on any "beginner" bike below $2k.  My budget would be really stretched to go for this one at $1250 even.

So I suppose I'll keep looking, but it's like nobody rides small bikes or at least nobody ever sells them for a reasonable price.  Example, there's a '91 GS500E on sale on cycletrader for $1700 OBO in North Carolina.  NADA price is more like $875 at most, about half of the asking price.  There's another '91 in Ohio that wants $2500.  I'm not looking for something free or to screw over a seller but those prices are upsurd.  I guess that example illustrates that $1250 is way to much to pay for a track GS though.  I'll keep on looking.

As for parking, yes you can park in faculty lots.  There are motorcycle specific spots that are open to anyone with a VT parking permit and they're closer than just about every car parking space and they're never full.  Yeah the bus is free, but I don't really like to be on their schedule and have to leave my apartment in Terrace View 20-30 minutes early for a drive that would only take 5 minutes with another 5 minute walk to class (and yes a bicycle would be cheaper and faster, but I'm lazy).  I'd just drive my car but the money hungry administration would rather sell two or three times as many permits as there are spots just to make it impossible for me to park on campus after 9am without great difficulty.  I'd like to be riding confidently by April, but since I started watching prices, I don't think I've ever seen a GS500/ex500/ex250 for any less than $2000 unless there's something wrong with it and $2k is not something I can afford because I'd still have to buy gear.  Anyway, enough rambling...thanks for the responses.  I'm off to search the internet for something better.

[pandy]

Here's one for $800.00 

[My Name Is Dave]

As for the guys asking those prices, that's the beauty of using the blue book and making a deal. Bargaining never hurt anyone. Make an offer, and if they say no move on.

I'm not sure you're searching as broad of a bike base as you could. Have you thought about old '80s Honda CBs at all? What about first-gen sportbikes? There's a Ninja 600 from 88 or so for $1000 here. I'm not recommending you hop on a 2000 CBR 600 RR by any means. But what I understand is that the first sportbikes were heavier and more tame than the wheelie monsters being put out today. I almost opted for an '88 Hurricane 600 for my first bike.

I'm just trying to present options. I think that if you take the MSF, you can handle these bikes. Buuuuuuuut, NEVER forget about the GS as an option.

Dave

You all are probably right about letting this one go because of the track abuse that it could have endured.  I'm just not a patient person and I rarely see prices on any "beginner" bike below $2k.  My budget would be really stretched to go for this one at $1250 even.

So I suppose I'll keep looking, but it's like nobody rides small bikes or at least nobody ever sells them for a reasonable price.  Example, there's a '91 GS500E on sale on cycletrader for $1700 OBO in North Carolina.  NADA price is more like $875 at most, about half of the asking price.  There's another '91 in Ohio that wants $2500.  I'm not looking for something free or to screw over a seller but those prices are upsurd.  I guess that example illustrates that $1250 is way to much to pay for a track GS though.  I'll keep on looking.

As for parking, yes you can park in faculty lots.  There are motorcycle specific spots that are open to anyone with a VT parking permit and they're closer than just about every car parking space and they're never full.  Yeah the bus is free, but I don't really like to be on their schedule and have to leave my apartment in Terrace View 20-30 minutes early for a drive that would only take 5 minutes with another 5 minute walk to class (and yes a bicycle would be cheaper and faster, but I'm lazy).  I'd just drive my car but the money hungry administration would rather sell two or three times as many permits as there are spots just to make it impossible for me to park on campus after 9am without great difficulty.  I'd like to be riding confidently by April, but since I started watching prices, I don't think I've ever seen a GS500/ex500/ex250 for any less than $2000 unless there's something wrong with it and $2k is not something I can afford because I'd still have to buy gear.  Anyway, enough rambling...thanks for the responses.  I'm off to search the internet for something better.