downshifting question

[RavenX]

I'm a new rider and have completed the msf course last summer.  Anways as far as downshifting, I can't remember which is the proper (best) way to downshift.  Do I let off the throttle, pull in the clutch, downshift , blip the throttle and re-engage the clutch, or
do I pull in the clutch without letting off the throttle (so there is no blipping the throttle), downshift,  and re-engage the clutch?

[Dwn4whadever]

I would like to know that too.

[melloGS]

the first option...blip

[joedude]

pull in the clutch just as you do when you're accelerating...
but usually when you're downshifting, its cause you're slowing down, so your throttle should already be closed... in that case, pull in the clutch, downshift (blip of the throttle is optional but I do it personally... it helps in synchronizing your transmission RPM with your engine RPM therefore allows for a smoother engine assisted deceleration when you let out the clutch), and then let out the clutch slowly until it grabs. If you don't blip the throttle... and you aren't smooth with the clutch... you could get an uncomfortable lurch as your bike would decelerate abruptly.

[RavenX]

pull in the clutch just as you do when you're accelerating...
but usually when you're downshifting, its cause you're slowing down, so your throttle should already be closed... in that case, pull in the clutch, downshift (blip of the throttle is optional but I do it personally... it helps in synchronizing your transmission RPM with your engine RPM therefore allows for a smoother engine assisted deceleration when you let out the clutch), and then let out the clutch slowly until it grabs. If you don't blip the throttle... and you aren't smooth with the clutch... you could get an uncomfortable lurch as your bike would decelerate abruptly.

hmm well the other day I tried the 1st way (let off the throttle, clutch in, downshift, blip, re-engage the throttle) and right after I pull in the clutch to downshift, I notice my rpms go down around 3-4 thousand I mean is this normal? Am I taking too long to downshift because when I blip the throttle, i hear the engine roar (while the clutch is in) because the rpms are so low.  I have to get it back up to around 6 or 7.  Should I try to downshift faster so the rpms don't drop so low making me have to roar the engine back up?

[joedude]

You don't have to Red line the engine to down shift! In fact you shouldn't put too much load on the engine when downshifting... you don't want the RPM's racing too high... that just puts unnecessary wear on the valves and such.

The RPM's dropping after you've pulled in the clutch, and let off the throttle... well that's perfectly normal. if it doesn't do that... then there's an issue. Don't worry about being lightning fast when downshifting, concentrate on riding safely. If you need to stop in a hurry, use your brakes, that's what they're there for. On that note, use braking and engine braking together to slow yourself down.

Ok now, a blip of the throttle, should only bring your RPM's up to around 4000 RPM, or 5000 RPM's tops. Any higher than that, then you're just revving the engine up for nothing. Now when you let the clutch out gradually... if the engine races up to 9000 RPM, then you're in too low of a gear for your speed. 6000-7000 is pretty much as high as you want it to ensure you don't prematurely wear your engine. Now to avoid having your engine race like that, another alternative is to use your clutch's friction point (you should have learned about that in your MSF). Gradually let your clutch out, if your engine starts to rev too high for your comfort, then pull it back in slightly, and the bike will slow (cause you're braking as you're doing this) and then slowly let it out again. By that time the RPM should have dropped into a comfortable range

hope that helps!

[RavenX]

thanks for the reply. I'll go out again today and give it a try and let you know.  Thanks again.

[melloGS]

... if your don't blip, and your speed is faster than the gear speed your going into, you tire will lose traction...

[Alphamazing]

... if your don't blip, and your speed is faster than the gear speed your going into, you tire will lose traction...

Only if you're not smooth on the clutch. If you release the clutch in a smooth motion and not too quickly then your wheel won't hop. It's all about good technique.

[ukchickenlover]

... if your don't blip, and your speed is faster than the gear speed your going into, you tire will lose traction...

Only if you're not smooth on the clutch. If you release the clutch in a smooth motion and not too quickly then your wheel won't hop. It's all about good technique.

For normal riding you don't really need to blip the throttle. If you let the revs drop low so there will be less engine braking and let out the clutch slowly you should be o.k. Blipping the throttle to rev match is more for changing down a gear at higher revs to get the power like if your about to overtake or if you are going for a fast ride.

[Queso]

Alright.. This is what I do, and tell me if I shouldn't do this

I'll be in 4th or 5th gear, and depending on traffic, I just let off the gas and let the RPMs get down around 1800, pull in the clutch, drop to second, blip to about 3k, then I use the brakes down to about 1500, drop to first and stop... Any reason not to do it that way?

[Alphamazing]

Alright.. This is what I do, and tell me if I shouldn't do this

I'll be in 4th or 5th gear, and depending on traffic, I just let off the gas and let the RPMs get down around 1800, pull in the clutch, drop to second, blip to about 3k, then I use the brakes down to about 1500, drop to first and stop... Any reason not to do it that way?

The RPMs get too low, IMO, which doesn't allow for accelleration if needed. You should engine brake progressively in each gear down to a stop. Try to hold it around 4k to 5k, and then downshift to the next gear; repeat.

[MrDan]

Do I let off the throttle, pull in the clutch, downshift , blip the throttle and re-engage the clutch

Isn't this essentially double-clutching in a car?  Which is usually just done to show off how fast you are.  Or is that when you release the clutch with it in neutral before you select the next gear?  (sorry to hijack a bit)

[Alphamazing]

Do I let off the throttle, pull in the clutch, downshift , blip the throttle and re-engage the clutch

Isn't this essentially double-clutching in a car?  Which is usually just done to show off how fast you are.  Or is that when you release the clutch with it in neutral before you select the next gear?  (sorry to hijack a bit)

Double clutching in a car is clutching in to deselect gear, clutch out in neutral, clutch in to select next gear, clutch out to engage. So the second thing you said.

[MrDan]

Double clutching in a car is clutching in to deselect gear, clutch out in neutral, clutch in to select next gear, clutch out to engage. So the second thing you said.

cool - so basically one of those skills i never excelled at   [/hijack]

[RavenX]

ok I just got back and tried blipping the throttle.  My main problem is slowing down too fast to actually go through all the gears.  I have to use the break occasionally so cars behind me can see that I am slowing down otherewise they  don't know that i am stopping.   What ukchickenlover just wrote is what I have been doing.  Man its just soo much to do.  Hopefully with more riding it will get easier.

[MrDan]

you can always lightly use the foot brake to let someone know behind you that you're slowing down.  i found it was easier to learn that way before i could successfully regulate the throttle and front brake at the same time.  of course it means you're using all 4 limbs, but only one thing with each   that make sense?

[RavenX]

never thought about it that way. well if it doesn't rain tomarrow I will give it a try and see how that works.  Thanks again.

[CirclesCenter]

Depends on why you are downshifting.

For power, definately rev match. Do it like a racer, smooth and fast. Flowing like the swift river. (LOL)

For engine braking, well I honestly just do the lazy method. I use the brakes for braking. I Maintain a gear that I can use, but I keep the clutch pulled.

I figure to stop my brakes can lock the tires, so I don't need the extra power, and It's easier to replace brakes than clutch so I'll let them take the wear.

I think if you know your gears and just keep an appropriate one at the ready you can take off as fast as messing with the clutch each time, and be able to focus more attention on the road.

Attention on the road is far more important than doing everything perfect.

[joedude]

...Attention on the road is far more important than doing everything perfect.

Ditto... The perfect smoothness will come with time and practice, concentrate on riding safely!